The Car Thread ... !

[iLog.Genius]

So I've been driving around a 2016 BMW X3 for the last few hours and I'm convinced that iDrive is the best out there.

The integration with the iPhone is fantastic.

You can actually control Spotify directly from the screen/steering wheel controls. The radio stations, playlists, etc all show up in the iDrive

It does the same for Pandora and some apps I didn't try. I've tried every other system out there and no one compares right now.

I have used quite a bit of infotainment systems and iDrive is easily the best system. Everyone harps on iDrive being this and that. Have they used Mercedes COMAND? Audi gets high praise for the simple fact that it has Google maps...which is cool but everything else is not on par with today's iDrive software. Almost every review you'll read about how iDrive is bad. But not once do you ever read how bad MMI or COMAND is - it's not even mentioned. If anyone gets a chance to play with the current version of iDrive, you can see why BMW is hesitant on implementing CarPlay (they said they will) and why everyone with other infotainment systems wish CarPlay would come sooner.

My ranking is:

1. iDrive
2. Audi MMI
3. Mercedes COMAND (it's such a terrible system I'm surprised it doesn't criticized much at all. You would think a company who thrives on luxury would have an infotainment system compliment the car but it's a total afterthought. I wish I could rank it lower than 3)

Lexus/CUE/Ford are bunched together. I'm actually surprised Lexus' system isn't better than what it is when you have cars like the LFA. Surely you could come up with something better than what it is now...

 

[determined09]

Is there a big difference between the Lexus 350 and the Toyota Camry ? Are they the same car? I think they have the same chassis? Thank you

 

[2298754]

Is there a big difference between the Lexus 350 and the Toyota Camry ? Are they the same car? I think they have the same chassis? Thank you

Not anymore, nope.

The ES350 is based on the Avalon now, whereas the Camry is on its own chassis. In terms of difference, there is tons. The Lexus is more isolated, has a better brand on the front, and comes with higher levels of equipment.

The Camry feels like an economy car.

However, if I was really looking into this segment, I would buy the new Hyundai Genesis sedan. Looks great, inside and out.

 

[2298754]

I have used quite a bit of infotainment systems and iDrive is easily the best system. Everyone harps on iDrive being this and that. Have they used Mercedes COMAND? Audi gets high praise for the simple fact that it has Google maps...which is cool but everything else is not on par with today's iDrive software. Almost every review you'll read about how iDrive is bad. But not once do you ever read how bad MMI or COMAND is - it's not even mentioned. If anyone gets a chance to play with the current version of iDrive, you can see why BMW is hesitant on implementing CarPlay (they said they will) and why everyone with other infotainment systems wish CarPlay would come sooner.

My ranking is:
1. iDrive
2. Audi MMI
3. Mercedes COMAND (it's such a terrible system I'm surprised it doesn't criticized much at all. You would think a company who thrives on luxury would have an infotainment system compliment the car but it's a total afterthought. I wish I could rank it lower than 3)

I agree. COMMAND is a very terrible system. The single knob (two buttons on the sides) and the two "rows" of options top and bottom are poor. You're constantly going up and down. MMI and iDrive are laid out logically.

I own both right now and I'd rate the iDrive better, but Audi does do a few things better.

The screen is higher-res, has a built-in data connection, uses google maps, and their routing software is superior to BMW. Audi's integration with the HUD and center gauge display (between the speedo and tach) are also superior to BMW. I also like how Audi puts the volume control right next to the MMI knob and to change tracks, you can use that same volume controller and flick it left/right.

Downsides? The knob turns the wrong way and they STILL don't have USB ports. Audi doesn't have any apps integration also. All of this is being changed for the newest MMI (coming on the 2017 Audi Q7).

BMW has simplified the system so much. The knob turns the correct way and the shortcut buttons around it are perfect. I like the "spilt-screen" view of iDrive better too. BMW uses regular USB ports also! I have the older CIC iDrive and it doesn't have the same apps support of the current NBT iDrive systems. My favorite thing about iDrive are the one-touch custom shortcut buttons.

Downside? iDrive is worthless as a GPS system. Routing is nuts around Boston and NYC. It never works.

Upside is that, both BMW and Audi have committed to CarPlay.

Lexus/CUE/Ford are bunched together. I'm actually surprised Lexus' system isn't better than what it is when you have cars like the LFA. Surely you could come up with something better than what it is now...

Yeah, all of these systems are just terrible. CUE is a nightmare to use.

 

[determined09]

I agree. COMMAND is a very terrible system. The single knob (two buttons on the sides) and the two "rows" of options top and bottom are poor. You're constantly going up and down. MMI and iDrive are laid out logically.

I own both right now and I'd rate the iDrive better, but Audi does do a few things better.

The screen is higher-res, has a built-in data connection, uses google maps, and their routing software is superior to BMW. Audi's integration with the HUD and center gauge display (between the speedo and tach) are also superior to BMW. I also like how Audi puts the volume control right next to the MMI knob and to change tracks, you can use that same volume controller and flick it left/right.

Downsides? The knob turns the wrong way and they STILL don't have USB ports. Audi doesn't have any apps integration also. All of this is being changed for the newest MMI (coming on the 2017 Audi Q7).

BMW has simplified the system so much. The knob turns the correct way and the shortcut buttons around it are perfect. I like the "spilt-screen" view of iDrive better too. BMW uses regular USB ports also! I have the older CIC iDrive and it doesn't have the same apps support of the current NBT iDrive systems. My favorite thing about iDrive are the one-touch custom shortcut buttons.

Downside? iDrive is worthless as a GPS system. Routing is nuts around Boston and NYC. It never works.

Upside is that, both BMW and Audi have committed to CarPlay.



Yeah, all of these systems are just terrible. CUE is a nightmare to use.

What is CUE? TIA

 

[determined09]

Not anymore, nope.

The ES350 is based on the Avalon now, whereas the Camry is on its own chassis. In terms of difference, there is tons. The Lexus is more isolated, has a better brand on the front, and comes with higher levels of equipment.

The Camry feels like an economy car.

However, if I was really looking into this segment, I would buy the new Hyundai Genesis sedan. Looks great, inside and out.

Thanks
I was also told that the GS 350 and the Avalon has the same chassis. Thanks for the clarification I don't know to much about cars. I just know that some of them looks really pretty. I'll check out the Genesis sedan

 

[2298754]

What is CUE? TIA

http://www.cadillac.com/cadillac-cue.html

 

[MatthewLTL]

I don't know why I'm taking the bait, but I'll do it.

Do know how many times my car has failed to start in the winter of the past 7 years of ownership?

Exactly once-even at that it still started but then died. This was in January of 2010, when the(factory) battery decided to give up the ghost. I'll take a moment to point out that that's 6 years on a factory battery. I replaced the battery, and it's been fine since then. That includes days this past winter where the high flirted with 0ºF and the low was somewhere around -15º.

Over about 15 years of owning Town Cars, we've never had one fail to start in the winter, including some mild winters and some cold ones(by KY standards). I pretty much drove the '91 Ranger exclusively in the winter of '11/12 after I broke my(left) leg and it was a lot easier for me to get in and out of it with the cast and then boot. That was December through mid-January, which admittedly isn't the coldest part of the year but it was 100% reliable. My old Maxima('94) never failed to start in the winter.

The only vehicle I've ever experienced cold starting issues with was the Nissan Frontier('07, I think, or somewhere around there) when the gas line froze. I dumped two bottles of HEET along with a 5 gallon can of gas into the tank, then my dad and I rolled it into the garage to thaw out(it hadn't been driven in a couple of days, and I think the projected high on that particular day was around 20ºF). After a few hours in the garage, I shot some starter fluid into the intake, got it running, let it idle in the driveway for about 20 minutes, and then took it for a long drive(mostly to recharge the battery) and it was fine after that.

Winter starting really is a non-issue for the majority of modern cars, especially with fuel injection over the past 25 years or so and especially with direct injection becoming more common in the past few years. About the only thing that can kill a car in the winter these days are a bad battery(which often doesn't reveal itself as "bad" short of load testing until low temperatures) and a frozen gas line. A frozen gas line can usually be avoided by keeping the tank reasonably full, buying good gas, driving the car at least semi regularly, and throwing in an additive like HEET if you think you have a significant amount of water in your gas.

You cannot compare KY winters to MN winters. Your winters are mild and hardly anything compared to MNs. Last winter (2014-2015) was not as brutal as the 2012-2013 winter where the temp dipped to almost -30 with windchills making it feel like -60 That winter killed the impala's battery and gave it several starting issues. Daewoo started right up with the actual tempature being -15 with the then current windchill making it FEEL like -44. last winter got AT MOST -30 windchill Daewoo started up EVERY TIME on it's SEVEN year old battery, the Impala, Died every single week on its TWO year old battery mind you this was a mild winter where the actual temps never dropped below -15 most of the season.
Part of the reason my grandpa sold his S10 was because it too always died. He put a brand new battery in it just for it to literally be dead as a doornail less than 24 hrs later. There was one case I had to come give him a jump start and most of the other times it was on the charger. The truck spent more time on the charger in his garage than it didn't. Before the S10 he had a 1990 Chevy Celebrity Wagon, SAME problem, Dead batteries ALL THE TIME. It also never wanted to start most the time, It stalled every time you made a complete stop, It needed towing into the shop more time than i can count.
My Daewoo's battery will be 8 years old in a couple months.

Just stop. None of your statements are backed up with statistics and are blatantly undermined since your car currently has issues starting, was towed to the shop for the brakes, is throwing up error codes, has a seized caliper and a blown wheel cylinder. Stop comparing all the nice, luxury, new, cool and/or interesting cars to your damn daewoo! There must be Daewoo forums for that.

It's backed up by 1st hand experience not EVERYTHING needs to be backed by statistics! Statistics don't always mean anything either. Do air bags save lives with statistics? Yes. Will i EVER trust them? Nope. Why? EXPERIENCE! The Daewoo NEVER had a issue starting.

How bright are 6000LM LED H4 headlight bulbs vs H4 halogen?

 

[yg17]

Starting in the winter is nothing special. Any modern vehicle should be able to start on the coldest of mornings with no problem. The Daewoo is not an amazing piece of engineering and the only car able to make it through the winter.

 

[bunnspecial]

Starting in the winter is nothing special. Any modern vehicle should be able to start on the coldest of mornings with no problem. The Daewoo is not an amazing piece of engineering and the only car able to make it through the winter.

Matthew is correct that overall our winters here in KY are milder, but that doesn't make us immune from frigid days.

As I said, this past winter, we had days where the high was somewhere around 0ºF, but those days had lows between -10º and -20º. I know I started my car to go to work plenty of mornings with temperatures around -10º or -15º.

Incidentally, wind chill really doesn't matter when we're talking about cold starting, other than it makes the person clearing the car off more miserable. Cars don't care about wind chill, they care about actual temperature.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Thanks. I just found my wheel lock. It was still in zip compartment of the purse that I had stopped using.

What a peculiar place to keep a wheel lock!

hat winter killed the impala's battery

Your only metric here seems to be batteries. There are different types and qualities of batteries, appropriate for different temperature conditions. Perhaps investing in the right one will make a difference. There are a few major companies that make batteries (branded under many names), GM as far as I know does not manufacture batteries.

If I remember correctly it was determined that your grandfathers S10 was carbureted which would obviously would not start well in cold weather. It sounds like the Impala has starting issues as it is, given that it likes to stall out immediately.

Statistics don't always mean anything either

Well, not exactly. Statistics can allow you to make supported generalizations and decisions. Anecdotes are, well, anecdotal- arbitrary, unscientific, etc. If a cancer drug works 99% of the time, but for 1% is does not, would you listen to the 1%?

Downside? iDrive is worthless as a GPS system. Routing is nuts around Boston and NYC. It never works.

Oh my god yes, iDrive has been known to send me on some very roundabout trips. I have never liked the COMMAND system. The menus are terrible and the knob is too small and cheap-looking, especially if you're used to iDrive.

 

[2298754]

Oh my god yes, iDrive has been known to send me on some very roundabout trips. I have never liked the COMMAND system. The menus are terrible and the knob is too small and cheap-looking, especially if you're used to iDrive.

I was trying to put in directions to Assembly Row from Brookline last week. iDrive told me to go on Route 9, to 95S, and then 93N all the way around the city. All of this because Storrow had traffic on it

versus

 

[MatthewLTL]

What a peculiar place to keep a wheel lock!


Your only metric here seems to be batteries. There are different types and qualities of batteries, appropriate for different temperature conditions. Perhaps investing in the right one will make a difference. There are a few major companies that make batteries (branded under many names), GM as far as I know does not manufacture batteries.

If I remember correctly it was determined that your grandfathers S10 was carbureted which would obviously would not start well in cold weather. It sounds like the Impala has starting issues as it is, given that it likes to stall out immediately.

Well, not exactly. Statistics can allow you to make supported generalizations and decisions. Anecdotes are, well, anecdotal- arbitrary, unscientific, etc. If a cancer drug works 99% of the time, but for 1% is does not, would you listen to the 1%?


Oh my god yes, iDrive has been known to send me on some very roundabout trips. I have never liked the COMMAND system. The menus are terrible and the knob is too small and cheap-looking, especially if you're used to iDrive.

S10 wasnt carborated nor was the Celebrity.
GM's OE batteries are AC-Delco
The battery here isn't the factor the Daewoo, Impala AND S10 all have Die Hard batteries. The Impala is the 3rd GM vehicle in a row to be victim of GM battery Drain. A quick Google search reveals the "GM Battery Drain" is VARY common. However, It happens in different intervals with different GM's (seems to be GMC and Chevy mainly).

The Impala's starting issue has been fixed along with the Harley-Sound exhaust. This winter will be challenging to charge the battery when the garage has no power.... I suppose I should invest in one of those $50 Battery Tenders, Keep the ****er on a battery maintainer all winter.

And lastly, you DON'T need science to back facts. When you base things based on personal expirence, that doesn't mean it's all in your head because it's not scientifically backed.

And @yg17 I never stated modern cars couldn't start. Try starting a FlexFuel car in winter more often than not it ain't gonna start. While my Daewoo started up on a day it was -22 (though it groaned LOUDLY) The Impala AND other friends and aquantences i talked to at the time, most of their cars didn't start either. They had chevys and F.O.R.D.s

 

[bunnspecial]

Not anymore, nope.

The ES350 is based on the Avalon now, whereas the Camry is on its own chassis. In terms of difference, there is tons. The Lexus is more isolated, has a better brand on the front, and comes with higher levels of equipment.

The Camry feels like an economy car.

However, if I was really looking into this segment, I would buy the new Hyundai Genesis sedan. Looks great, inside and out.

I didn't realize that the E350 had switched over to the Avalon.

In any case, I went to college at Georgetown College in Georgetown, KY-the same town as Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, one of the largest US Toyota plants. The Chemistry department(where I lived ) maintained a good relationship with them, and we actually occasionally did consulting work for them. When they shut down their in-house analytical lab, they have us a pair of GC-MSs and a bunch of great glassware.

I toured the factory several times, and at least a few years ago they said that they were the only place in the world where the Avalon was built. They also made a significant portion of the worldwide Camry production.

Even back when the ES350 was still Camry based, it was built exclusively in Japan. Without researching(I'm feeling lazy at the moment) it wouldn't surprise me if the Avalon based one is the same way. That likely explains a lot of the quality difference.

As an interesting side note, the Georgetown City Police actually had a couple of Camrys in use as police cars that were donated by TMMK.

 

[determined09]

What a peculiar place to keep a wheel lock!


Your only metric here seems to be batteries. There are different types and qualities of batteries, appropriate for different temperature conditions. Perhaps investing in the right one will make a difference. There are a few major companies that make batteries (branded under many names), GM as far as I know does not manufacture batteries.

If I remember correctly it was determined that your grandfathers S10 was carbureted which would obviously would not start well in cold weather. It sounds like the Impala has starting issues as it is, given that it likes to stall out immediately.

Well, not exactly. Statistics can allow you to make supported generalizations and decisions. Anecdotes are, well, anecdotal- arbitrary, unscientific, etc. If a cancer drug works 99% of the time, but for 1% is does not, would you listen to the 1%?


Oh my god yes, iDrive has been known to send me on some very roundabout trips. I have never liked the COMMAND system. The menus are terrible and the knob is too small and cheap-looking, especially if you're used to iDrive.

I know it's strange place for me to keep the wheel lock! I should probably keep in the glove compartment.

 

[bunnspecial]

And @yg17 I never stated modern cars couldn't start. Try starting a FlexFuel car in winter more often than not it ain't gonna start. While my Daewoo started up on a day it was -22 (though it groaned LOUDLY) The Impala AND other friends and aquantences i talked to at the time, most of their cars didn't start either. They had chevys and F.O.R.D.s

Funny thing is one of my Mom's Town Cars was Flex Fuel(not sure what that has to do with anything anyway) although it always got regular E10 or whatever the stations are selling these days. I don't even know where to buy E85 around here. Whatever the case, it never failed to start even in temperatures well south of zero(at least -10º). It may have taken an extra half second of cranking(it usually started with just a tap on the key) but always started and didn't even "groan" or make any other unusual noises.

And lastly, you DON'T need science to back facts. When you base things based on personal expirence, that doesn't mean it's all in your head because it's not scientifically backed.

The point that we're making(or at least everyone with a science background-there are several of us in this thread) is that anecdotes don't indicate a universal problem or trend. Yes, your experience is true, but your experience alone doesn't allow one to make a valid generalization.

 

[2298754]

I didn't realize that the E350 had switched over to the Avalon.

Yes, the ES350 moved to the Avalon chassis (XX40) with the most recent model (XV60) in 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_ES#Sixth_generation_.28XV60.29

I toured the factory several times, and at least a few years ago they said that they were the only place in the world where the Avalon was built. They also made a significant portion of the worldwide Camry production.

Even back when the ES350 was still Camry based, it was built exclusively in Japan. Without researching(I'm feeling lazy at the moment) it wouldn't surprise me if the Avalon based one is the same way. That likely explains a lot of the quality difference.

As an interesting side note, the Georgetown City Police actually had a couple of Camrys in use as police cars that were donated by TMMK.

I've always wanted to tour a car factory!

Apparently, TMMK is now also making some Lexus ES350, but the Avalon is only built in the US.

http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+build+lexus+es350+georgetown+ky+plant.htm

As an aside, I owned two of the same model Toyotas. One made in Japan and then a US-built one. The J-vin car had a perfect paint job and no mis-aligned panels, whereas the US one (4-vin) had orange peel and crooked bumper fitting.

I'm sure it's not an issue anymore though. Lexus is known for their quality control. The vast majority of RXs are made in TMMC (Ontario).

And lastly, you DON'T need science to back facts. When you base things based on personal expirence, that doesn't mean it's all in your head because it's not scientifically backed.

God, I hope you're joking because this level of ignorance is just nuts.

The Impala AND other friends and aquantences i talked to at the time, most of their cars didn't start either. They had chevys and F.O.R.D.s

Why do you spell Ford as F.O.R.D?

I never stated modern cars couldn't start. Try starting a FlexFuel car in winter more often than not it ain't gonna start. While my Daewoo started up on a day it was -22 (though it groaned LOUDLY) The Impala AND other friends and aquantences i talked to at the time, most of their cars didn't start either. They had chevys and F.O.R.D.s

What does FlexFuel have to do with anything?

You can barely find "pure" petrol/gasoline anymore. It's all E10-15 these days. That little amount of ethanol doesn't change gasoline's chemical properties enough to alter the freezing point.

Even if you consider E85 (85% EtOH, 15% petrol), ethanol is still an alcohol and the freezing point is around -230F.

The only cars that have cold start issues are diesels because regular diesel (D2) gels around 32F. D1 is dyed heating oil. BioDiesel is similar, but since it is veggie-/animal-fat based, it gels even higher.

In colder climates, it's treated (at the port) with a mix of kerosene/various additives to lower the freezing point. You can even do it yourself with additives from WalMart (Power Service, etc).

Hell, even modern diesels have no troubles anymore. Glow plugs and properly treated D2 fuel start right now. My diesel BMW started up in -20F weather when I was in Montreal a few years ago.

 

[bunnspecial]

Yes, the ES350 moved to the Avalon chassis (XX40) with the most recent model (XV60) in 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_ES#Sixth_generation_.28XV60.29



I've always wanted to tour a car factory!

Apparently, TMMK is now also making some Lexus ES350, but the Avalon is only built in the US.

http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+build+lexus+es350+georgetown+ky+plant.htm

As an aside, I owned two of the same model Toyotas. One made in Japan and then a US-built one. The Japan one had a perfect paint job and no mis-aligned panels, whereas the US one had orange peel and the bumpers had to be re-aligned.

I haven't kept up with it since I'm not around Georgetown as much anymore(although I have tentative appointment to pick up some NMR samples and run them in the next few weeks) so hadn't kept up with TMMK so much.

I have a good friend whose dad works in the the paint shop at TMMK. As per him, they had some serious issues a few years back with orange peel and the like when they switched to water based paints. Of course, it's Toyota, so they've ironed them out but there were some "teething pains."

The TMMK factory honestly is an amazing place to tour. I think it's a mile from end-to-end, and a tour only takes you through a small part(and on a motorized tram). There are motorized robots running on under-the-floor magnetic tracks everywhere to deliver parts(they have the right of way over the tram ). The just-in-time system is a phenomenal model of efficiency. Not only do they not have to warehouse anything, but parts come off the truck already tagged and in order for the car they're going in.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Yes, the ES350 moved to the Avalon chassis (XX40) with the most recent model (XV60) in 2013.

Why do you spell Ford as F.O.R.D?

Found on road dead?

S10 wasnt carborated nor was the Celebrity.
GM's OE batteries are AC-Delco
The battery here isn't the factor the Daewoo, Impala AND S10 all have Die Hard batteries. The Impala is the 3rd GM vehicle in a row to be victim of GM battery Drain. A quick Google search reveals the "GM Battery Drain" is VARY common. However, It happens in different intervals with different GM's (seems to be GMC and Chevy mainly).

The Impala's starting issue has been fixed along with the Harley-Sound exhaust. This winter will be challenging to charge the battery when the garage has no power.... I suppose I should invest in one of those $50 Battery Tenders, Keep the ****er on a battery maintainer all winter.

And lastly, you DON'T need science to back facts. When you base things based on personal expirence, that doesn't mean it's all in your head because it's not scientifically backed.

And @yg17 I never stated modern cars couldn't start. Try starting a FlexFuel car in winter more often than not it ain't gonna start. While my Daewoo started up on a day it was -22 (though it groaned LOUDLY) The Impala AND other friends and aquantences i talked to at the time, most of their cars didn't start either. They had chevys and F.O.R.D.s

AC Delco sells branded batteries, but they are not made by AC Delco. They were previously made by Delphi, who is now owned by Johnson Controls. JC makes DieHard and about 100 branded batteries. They contract out, likely to the cheapest company. Johnson Control and Exide make nearly all the car batteries in the U.S.

There are different technologies and qualities available. Do some homework next time you buy a battery to find something for for your climate.

I'm not going to debate you on math and science. This isn't the place.

Even back when the ES350 was still Camry based, it was built exclusively in Japan. Without researching(I'm feeling lazy at the moment) it wouldn't surprise me if the Avalon based one is the same way. That likely explains a lot of the quality difference.

It's my understanding the ES is on a lengthened Camry frame but shares many parts from the Avalon. My mom used to have an 09 ES350. It was a good car- all it needed was routine maintence. It was comfortable, very smooth, quiet, but seriously lacked a fun and cool factor. The torque steer was pretty annoying.

 

[2298754]

I haven't kept up with it since I'm not around Georgetown as much anymore(although I have tentative appointment to pick up some NMR samples and run them in the next few weeks) so hadn't kept up with TMMK so much.

Oh man, don't even get me started on spectroscopy... I had to take a Spectroscopy course in undergrad and then an advanced spectroscopy (NMR/IR/DSC/GCMS/HPLC/UV-Vis/SPR/EPR, etc) class for my Masters. Some of the hardest classes I've ever taken!

Thankfully, my work employs a team of specialists, so I don't have to sit around and read spectra all day.

The TMMK factory honestly is an amazing place to tour. I think it's a mile from end-to-end, and a tour only takes you through a small part(and on a motorized tram). There are motorized robots running on under-the-floor magnetic tracks everywhere to deliver parts(they have the right of way over the tram ). The just-in-time system is a phenomenal model of efficiency. Not only do they not have to warehouse anything, but parts come off the truck already tagged and in order for the car they're going in.

Yeah, Toyota revolutionized the industry. It's amazing how Toyota is such a large company that builds so many models, yet is able to keep up quality.

Porsche benchmarked Toyota's lean-production techniques in the early 90s and it saved their company from going bankrupt.

https://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/porsche-toyotas-star-pupil/

Found on road dead?

Oh wow, throwback to the late 90s.

Should we refer to FIAT as "Fix it again Tony?"

 

[bunnspecial]

The torque steer was pretty annoying.

From what I've seen, a lot of companies seem to be doing a good job of ironing out torque steer but-to me-it was the #1 thing that drove me to favoring RWD.

My Dad's Continentals were the worst with the V8 up front. It would jerk the wheel out of your hands if you stepped on it too hard.

 

[determined09]

I was told that FORD means needs repair daily by my friend In college. Her Ford Taraus always needed some kind of repair. She would have some kind of problem with this car

 

[A.Goldberg]

From what I've seen, a lot of companies seem to be doing a good job of ironing out torque steer but-to me-it was the #1 thing that drove me to favoring RWD.

My Dad's Continentals were the worst with the V8 up front. It would jerk the wheel out of your hands if you stepped on it too hard.

A FWD V8 sounds like a recipe for torque steer. I've heard Acura has great things to iron out the TS, but I don't think they did much with the ES.

 

[MatthewLTL]

Funny thing is one of my Mom's Town Cars was Flex Fuel(not sure what that has to do with anything anyway) although it always got regular E10 or whatever the stations are selling these days. I don't even know where to buy E85 around here. Whatever the case, it never failed to start even in temperatures well south of zero(at least -10º). It may have taken an extra half second of cranking(it usually started with just a tap on the key) but always started and didn't even "groan" or make any other unusual noises.



The point that we're making(or at least everyone with a science background-there are several of us in this thread) is that anecdotes don't indicate a universal problem or trend. Yes, your experience is true, but your experience alone doesn't allow one to make a valid generalization.

What Flex Fuel has to do with it is if you have E85 in the tank dont expect it to start in winter

 

[MatthewLTL]

I was told that FORD means needs repair daily by my friend In college. Her Ford Taraus always needed some kind of repair. She would have the craziest problems with that car. At one time when she would push the gas petal the wheels in the back would just spin and the car wouldn't go forward.

huh. Taraus is FWD so the rear wheels spinning don't make much sense talk about strange. I was told the same with Pontiac and Saturn.