The difference between LAG & STUTTER and why it matters!

[dk001]

Of course, because irregardless of the minerals in a glass of water one mineral does not make the water. In its totality, you enjoy every delicious gulp. Of course, you could drink the water obsessing that one inert mineral will totally ruin your thirst quenching experience.

Yup. Kind of like taking a drink of that cold mountain spring water then finding that bears really do crap in the woods.

Streams too.

 

[scjr]

Yup. Kind of like taking a drink of that cold mountain spring water then finding that bears really do crap in the woods.

Streams too.

It appears you're running out of "steam".

 

[DoctorKrabs]

As a product gains complexity, things are more likely to go wrong. It isn't a case of incompetence.

That's why there is something called beta testing. It is so the software can grow while the users don't have to deal with those things going wrong. It means scrutinizing the software and fixing every issue you can discover to make the users deal with as little issues as possible.

It's not incompetence, but it can easily be laziness with lack of testing. It seems like Apple tried to let the users do the beta testing instead and they may have done less quality testing of their own. The public releases of 7.0, 8.0, and 9.0 have felt like public betas, but 5.0 and 6.0 weren't like that. They may have had some issues, but they were small, and not close to showstoppers.

Since 7.0, Apple have released an X.0.1 update only a week after the X.0.0 update. It wasn't like that before 7.0 because they didn't rush the big update out the door and fix the known issues soon after. They made a solid X.0 release and fixed issues when they popped up, and it took more time because not many issues actually would pop up.

4.0.1 came out a month after 4.0. 4.0.2 took another month.
5.0.1 came out a month after 5.0. 5.0.2 only fixed one issue on the iPhone 4s.
6.0.1 came out a month after 6.0. 6.0.2 took more than a month after 6.0.1.

7.0.1 came out a day after 7.0. 7.0.2 followed a week after. That went all the way to 7.0.6.
8.0.1 came out a week after 8.0. It destroyed the iPhone 6 baseband firmware, and 8.0.2 came out 2 days later to fix that. Then 8.1 after only a few more weeks. That went to 8.4, the first iOS version to reach X.4.
9.0.1 came out a week after 9.0, and 9.0.2 came out another week later. Then 9.1 after a few weeks. Now 9.2 is already in beta, within 2 months of 9.0.

Before iOS 8, Apple only needed to do an X.1 update around 4 to 6 months after the initial version. Now they do it in one month. Someone would say in theory that many frequent updates would actually help, but that's not the case. They are a sign that the software still needs work. I'm tired of seeing people say X.0 releases have always been this way because it's not true. 6.1 wasn't a major patch for 6.0 like 7.1 was for 7.0.

Simply put, if it really was about growing complexity, it would have always been a problem. It wasn't a problem before iOS 6, and I'm not talking about services like Maps. The functionality of the device itself wasn't the problem then that it is now.

If you want to say Maps was iOS 6's functionality issue, I would respond with iCloud Photo Library, which would fail to upload, fail to download. and simply not work. They released iCloud Photo Library and slapped a beta tag as a disclaimer in case your photo library got destroyed. That was after they already delayed it.

I shouldn't have to lower my expectations of Apple.

 

[Michael Goff]

That's why there is something called beta testing. It is so the software can grow while the users don't have to deal with those things going wrong. It means scrutinizing the software and fixing every issue you can discover to make the users deal with as little issues as possible.

It's not incompetence, but it can easily be laziness with lack of testing. It seems like Apple tried to let the users do the beta testing instead and they may have done less quality testing of their own. The public releases of 7.0, 8.0, and 9.0 have felt like public betas, but 5.0 and 6.0 weren't like that. They may have had some issues, but they were small, and not close to showstoppers.

Since 7.0, Apple have released an X.0.1 update only a week after the X.0.0 update. It wasn't like that before 7.0 because they didn't rush the big update out the door and fix the known issues soon after. They made a solid X.0 release and fixed issues when they popped up, and it took more time because not many issues actually would pop up.

4.0.1 came out a month after 4.0. 4.0.2 took another month.
5.0.1 came out a month after 5.0. 5.0.2 only fixed one issue on the iPhone 4s.
6.0.1 came out a month after 6.0. 6.0.2 took more than a month after 6.0.1.

7.0.1 came out a day after 7.0. 7.0.2 followed a week after. That went all the way to 7.0.6.
8.0.1 came out a week after 8.0. It destroyed the iPhone 6 baseband firmware, and 8.0.2 came out 2 days later to fix that. Then 8.1 after only a few more weeks. That went to 8.4, the first iOS version to reach X.4.
9.0.1 came out a week after 9.0, and 9.0.2 came out another week later. Then 9.1 after a few weeks. Now 9.2 is already in beta, within 2 months of 9.0.

Before iOS 8, Apple only needed to do an X.1 update around 4 to 6 months after the initial version. Now they do it in one month. Someone would say in theory that many frequent updates would actually help, but that's not the case. They are a sign that the software still needs work. I'm tired of seeing people say X.0 releases have always been this way because it's not true. 6.1 wasn't a major patch for 6.0 like 7.1 was for 7.0.

Simply put, if it really was about growing complexity, it would have always been a problem. It wasn't a problem before iOS 6, and I'm not talking about services like Maps. The functionality of the device itself wasn't the problem then that it is now.

If you want to say Maps was iOS 6's functionality issue, I would respond with iCloud Photo Library, which would fail to upload, fail to download. and simply not work. They released iCloud Photo Library and slapped a beta tag as a disclaimer in case your photo library got destroyed. That was after they already delayed it.

I shouldn't have to lower my expectations of Apple.

I feel like you really don't understand the idea of them speeding up development. I also don't think you understand how much more complex iOS 9 is than iOS 6.

 

[februarian]

As a product gains complexity, things are more likely to go wrong. It isn't a case of incompetence.

So you give the software it's due time. They are what, now having four OSes?, all of them having major annual updates, not to mention a plethora of different configurations for iOS. So it's incompetence by default. They need to slow down their "innovation" bandwagon. Or there will not be much that differs Microsoft or Google from them!

That statement doesn't accurately jive with the reality of where apple is from a sales and financial perspective.

That reality will change & its bound to show one way or another in the future if they don't do much about it.

 

[Michael Goff]

So you give the software it's due time. They are what, now having four OSes?, all of them having major annual updates!! So it's incompetence by default. They need to slow down their "innovation" bandwagon. Or there will not be much that differs Microsoft or Google from them!

That reality will change & its bound to show one way or another in the future if they don't do much about it.

No, it isn't incompetence. I don't think you know what incompetence is. OSX, and three different versions of iOS are their four OS team. Let's not pretend they made a completely new OS for the watch and the TV.

 

[dk001]

It appears you're running out of "steam".

Little ad hoc posts threads like this do make this place more enjoyable.

No, it isn't incompetence. I don't think you know what incompetence is. OSX, and three different versions of iOS are their four OS team. Let's not pretend they made a completely new OS for the watch and the TV.

It's not like Apple is developing a new OS each time. They are building on the framework of the previous version. This should cut down on development time but places significant emphasis on regression testing. The more I look at this "mess", it appears more and more to be a lack of effective testing.

 

[C DM]

That's why there is something called beta testing. It is so the software can grow while the users don't have to deal with those things going wrong. It means scrutinizing the software and fixing every issue you can discover to make the users deal with as little issues as possible.

It's not incompetence, but it can easily be laziness with lack of testing. It seems like Apple tried to let the users do the beta testing instead and they may have done less quality testing of their own. The public releases of 7.0, 8.0, and 9.0 have felt like public betas, but 5.0 and 6.0 weren't like that. They may have had some issues, but they were small, and not close to showstoppers.

Since 7.0, Apple have released an X.0.1 update only a week after the X.0.0 update. It wasn't like that before 7.0 because they didn't rush the big update out the door and fix the known issues soon after. They made a solid X.0 release and fixed issues when they popped up, and it took more time because not many issues actually would pop up.

4.0.1 came out a month after 4.0. 4.0.2 took another month.
5.0.1 came out a month after 5.0. 5.0.2 only fixed one issue on the iPhone 4s.
6.0.1 came out a month after 6.0. 6.0.2 took more than a month after 6.0.1.

7.0.1 came out a day after 7.0. 7.0.2 followed a week after. That went all the way to 7.0.6.
8.0.1 came out a week after 8.0. It destroyed the iPhone 6 baseband firmware, and 8.0.2 came out 2 days later to fix that. Then 8.1 after only a few more weeks. That went to 8.4, the first iOS version to reach X.4.
9.0.1 came out a week after 9.0, and 9.0.2 came out another week later. Then 9.1 after a few weeks. Now 9.2 is already in beta, within 2 months of 9.0.

Before iOS 8, Apple only needed to do an X.1 update around 4 to 6 months after the initial version. Now they do it in one month. Someone would say in theory that many frequent updates would actually help, but that's not the case. They are a sign that the software still needs work. I'm tired of seeing people say X.0 releases have always been this way because it's not true. 6.1 wasn't a major patch for 6.0 like 7.1 was for 7.0.

Simply put, if it really was about growing complexity, it would have always been a problem. It wasn't a problem before iOS 6, and I'm not talking about services like Maps. The functionality of the device itself wasn't the problem then that it is now.

If you want to say Maps was iOS 6's functionality issue, I would respond with iCloud Photo Library, which would fail to upload, fail to download. and simply not work. They released iCloud Photo Library and slapped a beta tag as a disclaimer in case your photo library got destroyed. That was after they already delayed it.

I shouldn't have to lower my expectations of Apple.

To put it in perspective of reality, by far not all issues are found in beta testing and certainly not all get fixed. In a perfect world that would certainly be the case, as would world peace likely be as well, but that's not the reality our world exists in.

Beyond that, comparing iOS 6 or 5 release cycles to iOS 7 or 8 release cycles is somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison--in one case you are taking about an updated iOS version built upon the foundation that was already around for about 5+ years, in the other case you are taking about updates to versions that are on top of pretty much a newer and different foundation that clearly hasn't had years of refinement yet. Again, to keep it all in perspective.

 

[I7guy]

So you give the software it's due time. They are what, now having four OSes?, all of them having major annual updates, not to mention a plethora of different configurations for iOS. So it's incompetence by default. They need to slow down their "innovation" bandwagon. Or there will not be much that differs Microsoft or Google from them!

That reality will change & its bound to show one way or another in the future if they don't do much about it.

While I'm not saying Apple can't do things better or even differently; the reality is anything and everything can happen and we don't really know how the 50 million iOS 9 adopters feel about the product only how the 20 or so posters in this thread feel.

 

[DoctorKrabs]

I feel like you really don't understand the idea of them speeding up development. I also don't think you understand how much more complex iOS 9 is than iOS 6.

If you're going to use complexity of the software as an excuse for problems, shouldn't we be allowing more development time for every major release than the last one? iOS 6 being more complicated than 9 is not an excuse for problems. iOS 6 is also way more complicated than iPhone OS 3, but that didn't mean iOS 6 had to have showstopping flaws and bugs at its core. They tested it and released it when it was more than just "good enough".

If speeding up development means a worse user experience, maybe they should stop doing that.

 

[vertsix]

I updated to 9.1 a few days ago from 8.4.1 on my 5s, which was flawless in performance. I made this decision because I no longer cared too much about the performance drop and wanted the new features.

The stuttering is definitely there in Control Center, but it's very insignificant. It tends to drop frames near the top. Same thing occurs with Spotlight Search and Notification Center. It's not too bad.

Also, I can confirm that turning on Reduce Transparency obliterates all lag, so everyone can stop complaining about it in this thread. And, Reduce Transparency doesn't make your phone look too bad. I've managed to make it look nice.

 

[Michael Goff]

If you're going to use complexity of the software as an excuse for problems, shouldn't we be allowing more development time for every major release than the last one? iOS 6 being more complicated than 9 is not an excuse for problems. iOS 6 is also way more complicated than iPhone OS 3, but that didn't mean iOS 6 had to have showstopping flaws and bugs at its core. They tested it and released it when it was more than just "good enough".

If speeding up development means a worse user experience, maybe they should stop doing that.

That's a good argument. I've been toying around with making a post about a 3 year cycle for OS development. Two years of bug fixes and speed improvements and the third for new features. That's my dream scenario. It's less glamorous, but I'd love it.

 

[I7guy]

I updated to 9.1 a few days ago from 8.4.1 on my 5s, which was flawless in performance. I made this decision because I no longer cared too much about the performance drop and wanted the new features.

The stuttering is definitely there in Control Center, but it's very insignificant. It tends to drop frames near the top. Same thing occurs with Spotlight Search and Notification Center. It's not too bad.

Also, I can confirm that turning on Reduce Transparency obliterates all lag, so everyone can stop complaining about it in this thread. Also, it doesn't make your phone look too bad. I've managed to make it look nice.

View attachment 602868

View attachment 602869

Omg a voice of reason. Thanks.

 

[Max(IT)]

As a product gains complexity, things are more likely to go wrong. It isn't a case of incompetence.

I was banned so I don't comment on that, but every time I'm seeing someone here calling Apple's engineers "incompetent" I laugh ....
Same when I see people trying to give lessons to Ive or Cook.
A lot of geniuses on this forum lately
It is quite strange Apple didn't rush here to hire them all.

 

[pat.b]

I've actually been a huge critic and disappointed in iOS 9 but after recently installing the latest version of the 9.2 beta I am actually surprisingly content. Was on 9.0.2 for a while and 9.2 actually runs pretty smooth.

 

[Radon87000]

Broken record again .... plain false: Apple's engineers are better than ever.
Actually Apple employ some of the most talented people of the world.

So these "talented" engineers cant fix Spotlight and App Switcher stutters on an iPad Pro for ****s sake?Thats some talent Apple has.4 gigs of RAM and a top end processer STILL dont solve lags.LOL

That statement doesn't accurately jive with the reality of where apple is from a sales and financial perspective.

Sales and Finance got nothing to do with bad coding.Samsung owns near the entirety of Android profits (if any) and its a well known fact how slow and bloated Touchwiz is at times

I updated to 9.1 a few days ago from 8.4.1 on my 5s, which was flawless in performance. I made this decision because I no longer cared too much about the performance drop and wanted the new features.

The stuttering is definitely there in Control Center, but it's very insignificant. It tends to drop frames near the top. Same thing occurs with Spotlight Search and Notification Center. It's not too bad.

Also, I can confirm that turning on Reduce Transparency obliterates all lag, so everyone can stop complaining about it in this thread. And, Reduce Transparency doesn't make your phone look too bad. I've managed to make it look nice.

View attachment 602868

View attachment 602869

Suit yourself but I cant live with RT on for more than 5 minutes.It looks waay uglier than the Nexus 5 I have

 

[Max(IT)]

That statement doesn't accurately jive with the reality of where apple is from a sales and financial perspective.

Not only sales. I can't be happier with my current iOS 9. installation, and I'm sure I will be even happier with 9.2

That's why there is something called beta testing. It is so the software can grow while the users don't have to deal with those things going wrong. It means scrutinizing the software and fixing every issue you can discover to make the users deal with as little issues as possible.

It's not incompetence, but it can easily be laziness with lack of testing. It seems like Apple tried to let the users do the beta testing instead and they may have done less quality testing of their own. The public releases of 7.0, 8.0, and 9.0 have felt like public betas, but 5.0 and 6.0 weren't like that. They may have had some issues, but they were small, and not close to showstoppers.

Since 7.0, Apple have released an X.0.1 update only a week after the X.0.0 update. It wasn't like that before 7.0 because they didn't rush the big update out the door and fix the known issues soon after. They made a solid X.0 release and fixed issues when they popped up, and it took more time because not many issues actually would pop up.

4.0.1 came out a month after 4.0. 4.0.2 took another month.
5.0.1 came out a month after 5.0. 5.0.2 only fixed one issue on the iPhone 4s.
6.0.1 came out a month after 6.0. 6.0.2 took more than a month after 6.0.1.

7.0.1 came out a day after 7.0. 7.0.2 followed a week after. That went all the way to 7.0.6.
8.0.1 came out a week after 8.0. It destroyed the iPhone 6 baseband firmware, and 8.0.2 came out 2 days later to fix that. Then 8.1 after only a few more weeks. That went to 8.4, the first iOS version to reach X.4.
9.0.1 came out a week after 9.0, and 9.0.2 came out another week later. Then 9.1 after a few weeks. Now 9.2 is already in beta, within 2 months of 9.0.

Before iOS 8, Apple only needed to do an X.1 update around 4 to 6 months after the initial version. Now they do it in one month. Someone would say in theory that many frequent updates would actually help, but that's not the case. They are a sign that the software still needs work. I'm tired of seeing people say X.0 releases have always been this way because it's not true. 6.1 wasn't a major patch for 6.0 like 7.1 was for 7.0.

Simply put, if it really was about growing complexity, it would have always been a problem. It wasn't a problem before iOS 6, and I'm not talking about services like Maps. The functionality of the device itself wasn't the problem then that it is now.

If you want to say Maps was iOS 6's functionality issue, I would respond with iCloud Photo Library, which would fail to upload, fail to download. and simply not work. They released iCloud Photo Library and slapped a beta tag as a disclaimer in case your photo library got destroyed. That was after they already delayed it.

I shouldn't have to lower my expectations of Apple.

The simple fact you are comparing iOS 4, 5 and 6 with iOS 9 tells me how little about OS complexity you understand....

Apple is offering tons of new functionalities more than the old , somewhat crippled iOS ...
They were asked to do that by the market, and they did.
Do you REALLY think you are any smarter than Apple's developers team ? Do you think they aren't doing their best ?
Things are just more complex today, thus bug are more and more difficult to find.

If you're going to use complexity of the software as an excuse for problems, shouldn't we be allowing more development time for every major release than the last one? iOS 6 being more complicated than 9 is not an excuse for problems. iOS 6 is also way more complicated than iPhone OS 3, but that didn't mean iOS 6 had to have showstopping flaws and bugs at its core. They tested it and released it when it was more than just "good enough".

If speeding up development means a worse user experience, maybe they should stop doing that.

Except there is no "worse user experience" since iOS user base is growing year after year....
And the hypothesis to slow down development is just another demonstration of poor understanding of the market. Every year Apple add new hardware and need new software to use it. In the meanwhile users continuously ask for new functionalities on the existing hardware. Apple just can't slow down .... or forums like this would be stormed by whiners complaining about how lazy Apple is.

That's a good argument. I've been toying around with making a post about a 3 year cycle for OS development. Two years of bug fixes and speed improvements and the third for new features. That's my dream scenario. It's less glamorous, but I'd love it.

If you are speaking about OS X I could agree.
iOS absolutely not.
It is a very competitive market, and Apple need to add something every year, both in hardware and software.
They just can't slow down....

Can they do any better ? Sure.
And the open Beta testing program is a good move in the right direction. More beta tester to give feedback to Apple before releasing new software.

 

[Michael Goff]

Not only sales. I can't be happier with my current iOS 9. installation, and I'm sure I will be even happier with 9.2


The simple fact you are comparing iOS 4, 5 and 6 with iOS 9 tells me how little about OS complexity you understand....

Apple is offering tons of new functionalities more than the old , somewhat crippled iOS ...
They were asked to do that by the market, and they did.
Do you REALLY think you are any smarter than Apple's developers team ? Do you think they aren't doing their best ?
Things are just more complex today, thus bug are more and more difficult to find.



Except there is no "worse user experience" since iOS user base is growing year after year....
And the hypothesis to slow down development is just another demonstration of poor understanding of the market. Every year Apple add new hardware and need new software to use it. In the meanwhile users continuously ask for new functionalities on the existing hardware. Apple just can't slow down .... or forums like this would be stormed by whiners complaining about how lazy Apple is.


If you are speaking about OS X I could agree.
iOS absolutely not.
It is a very competitive market, and Apple need to add something every year, both in hardware and software.
They just can't slow down....

Can they do any better ? Sure.
And the open Beta testing program is a good move in the right direction. More beta tester to give feedback to Apple before releasing new software.

This is where we start disagreeing. I don't see a lot of things Apple needs to add to iOS. Metal, on the other hand, needs TLC.

 

[Max(IT)]

So these "talented" engineers cant fix Spotlight and App Switcher stutters on an iPad Pro for ****s sake?Thats some talent Apple has.4 gigs of RAM and a top end processer STILL dont solve lags.LOL

If you really think you are any better than Apple's engineers you must be 15 or some.... and I'm really wasting my time.

 

[Radon87000]

If you really think you are any better than Apple's engineers you must be 15 or some.... and I'm really wasting my time.

Huh?Where did you get that notion?Its my opinion that as of late Apple's engineers arent up to the usual standards and I find Google's and Microsoft's engineers doing better at optimisation.This is based on my assessment of Android Marshmallow on Nexus 5 and Nexus 7 and iOS 9 on my iPhone and iPad.Funny thing is Windows 10 has smoother animations on Apple hardware(MBA) than El Capitan too

 

[Max(IT)]

This is where we start disagreeing. I don't see a lot of things Apple needs to add to iOS. Metal, on the other hand, needs TLC.

Well, Apple can't please anyone ... there are people that need more (like me ).
It is also a marketing matter.

 

[Michael Goff]

Well, Apple can't please anyone ... there are people that need more (like me ).
It is also a marketing matter.

How about if the third year feature release was the 200 polished feature thing? I'm talking huge numbers of features every third year.

 

[I7guy]

So these "talented" engineers cant fix Spotlight and App Switcher stutters on an iPad Pro for ****s sake?Thats some talent Apple has.4 gigs of RAM and a top end processer STILL dont solve lags.LOL


Sales and Finance got nothing to do with bad coding.Samsung owns near the entirety of Android profits (if any) and its a well known fact how slow and bloated Touchwiz is at times


Suit yourself but I cant live with RT on for more than 5 minutes.It looks waay uglier than the Nexus 5 I have

"Bad coding" that translates into "poor use experience" usually finds its way into "the financials". So yeah, one has everything to do with the other.

 

[Radon87000]

Just look how sluggish the Control Centre is on iPhone 6.Its dropping tons of frames and no the latest release didnt fix it

 

[Michael Goff]

Just look how sluggish the Control Centre is on iPhone 6.Its dropping tons of frames and no the latest release didnt fix it

I'm watching, but not noticing. Maybe my eyes aren't good enough. I do wear glasses, so that's likely.