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The Failure of the Touchbar MacBook Pros: Emergency Redesign Needed
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Not my post...
Ups, terribly sorry, I don't know how this could have happened! I have fixed the quote.
I'm in a funny spot. I work as a video editor, and not in the sense of "I edit videos for youtube and such" but like I've been doing it for 15 years for tv shows and whatnot. So I work all day on macs. I get a fair amount of work at home, but I'm still doing all my mobile editing at studios, on the road, hotels, on a 2014 macbook pro. I'm waiting and waiting for this whole thing to be worked out. I know some don't mind it but the bottoming out on the new keyboard really does bother me. I have a macbook 12 for a stint and hated the keyboard. That's just me. Im in this spot where I desperately need a new macbook to work, but it seems silly to buy it right now with the new ones so long out. So for now I'm waiting, hoping there is a slight improvement. It's literally like take my money please, but I can't do it. I looked at Dells, but I know they have QC issues and working at peoples studio with shared drives...its gotta be a mac. So for now holding onto my 2014.
I know these posts are every day and people go "whatever move on with your life, and dont buy it", well its clear for most of us this thing isn't working out that well, so maybe we need some improvements. I also found using the new mbp at work making the touch pad just the f keys in settings made me a lot more relaxed and stopped the crazy disco colors distracting the **** out of me.
...what? They sure do, as do Macs (especially the new ones) and Surface Books and all other laptops. If you look at QC data, Apple will be middle of the pack amongst top companies, regardless of what their marketing departments wants us to think.
I think the touch-bar is a gimmick and I rather have the function key back. However, I love the keyboard of the new MacBook Pro as it's one of the most enjoyable keyboards I have typed on. There are days where I don't want to type on anything but this laptops keyboard and my mechanical keyboard is something I can't type on for too long before fatigue.
Every generation of MacBook's have has some big mechanical problem or some failure and this generation is no different. I bought the SurfaceBook a year back to test it and it was a poor experience that was far more flawed than my Pro.
Every generation of MacBook's have has some big mechanical problem or some failure and this generation is no different. I bought the SurfaceBook a year back to test it and it was a poor experience that was far more flawed than my Pro.
I don't remember any mechanical issues with the previous generation retina MBPs. Only real issue was with the LG display image retention on the mid-2012 models
Not non-sense. The large trackpad is absolutely useless to me coming from the old rMBP. The palm rejection gives me anxiety because when I code, it can move the cursor at any time. This is unacceptable. It's also not comfortable typing with your palm resting on the trackpad.
It might be useless to you, but to most of us is a pleasant upgrade. I don't have any palm rejection issues and this works perfectly.
I don’t understand the motivation for so many of you to comment in here. You love the failing keys etc. great go write an essay on it somewhere else. No need to come in here, bitch about another complaint post, and continue to rub it in with how much you love what the OP rightfully so hates. Ugh so many jerks in this world.
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Ah yes, the old 'you're using it wrong' chestnut - good design means you shouldn't have to change the way you use something like a keyboard. As a matter of fact I already had changed my typing style for it to press the keys more softly, but there's only so softly you can strike keys if you're trying to type more than like 20 words a minute. Apple clearly designed the keyboard with people who do short bursts of typing in mind, which it is between OK and great for, depending on personal taste. For longer sessions, it's simply not a good keyboard, as, again, the keys have no dampening which means your fingers are bottoming out suddenly after striking the keycap. That small repetitive percussion builds up when you're spending hours a day typing and editing content. I would also agree that the 2015 era keycaps do feel somewhat 'mushy' and 'wobbly' after using it, that's true, but other scissor mechanisms from Windows laptops, and even the magic keyboard have a more stable and more precise feeling, it's not impossible to do without reducing key travel to nothing unnecessarily. Ergonomics should be > aesthetics all day every day. On that, Apple has failed with this particular piece of design.
Keyboard, yes. Trackpad and TouchBar - no.
Keyboard: It is obvious some people are facing the problem with very small particles, which can enter the very narrow gap between the key and the frame, and thus render the key stuck. Huge engineering overlook, IMO.
TouchBar: I do not have any special opinion on it, but it is cool at some moments. I would like physical ESC key back, though.
Trackpad: best in the world, and competition still hasn't caught up for decades. What else would you want?
Therefore, I voted no, because there is only one specific thing that needs redesign.
I would remove my vote at all, because poll is poorly constructed, but there is no that option.
Keyboard: It is obvious some people are facing the problem with very small particles, which can enter the very narrow gap between the key and the frame, and thus render the key stuck. Huge engineering overlook, IMO.
TouchBar: I do not have any special opinion on it, but it is cool at some moments. I would like physical ESC key back, though.
Trackpad: best in the world, and competition still hasn't caught up for decades. What else would you want?
Therefore, I voted no, because there is only one specific thing that needs redesign.
I would remove my vote at all, because poll is poorly constructed, but there is no that option.
Why not spend a hundred dollars on an external keyboard? Less money, just as effective at solving your problem. Less dramatic I suppose.
The increased Trackpad size is excellent IME. I don't love the keyboard, especially when frequently transitioning between the MBP keyboard and a mechanical keyboard. If I *only* used the MBP keyboard, I'd likely be used to the key travel by now. The left/right arrow key size annoys me more than anything.
For me it's a far more ergonomic keyboard. Idk how you could type so hard that you run into some problem where you feel like you're bottoming out the keys. Maybe you are literally using it wrong. You don't mash keys.
I type all day as well, everything from writing code to papers. Without fail every single time I go back to the butterfly keyboard it's so much better. I have the magic keyboard too and always preferred that over the Apple laptop keyboards as well until they switched to the new, better ones.
I agree with you that ergonomics (for the most part) should trump aesthetics. The new keyboards are better in both regards. Now, if we want to discuss all-around better keyboards (not just between the 2015 and later MacBook Pros) I'll defer to your judgement, as I wouldn't consider purchasing a Windows laptop so I never try them out.
I don’t know if most people find it more useful or if they had no choice. If it was downgraded to the previous size, I don’t think many people would care.
But this is all subjective. Like the other poster, palm rejection failures is annoying when coding, it’s just really in the way. Apple already had a large trackpad relatively speaking which scrolled through the screen more then fine. I’m all for improvements if they don’t hinder some other functionality.
Having to type differently to get around the large trackpad is not a good user experience. Also it feels inconsistent when clicking different areas of the trackpad. I know quite a few posters here have ended up disabling tap to click to get around it - but for me giving that up is too much of a user experience downgrade.
I agree that the keyboard stinks. It’s something I can tolerate, but when I switch to my 2013 MBA the MBA feels superior. I really hate the arrow keys in the MBP. Feels like one big button to me. The MBA arrow keys have more space between then keys so I can feel where they are.
The touch bar doesn’t annoy me as much but I also agree that it’s a gimmick. Mine actually crashed on the first day hah. I find I frequently touch the Siri button by accident which is very annoying when the pop up comes up. I don’t like having to look at the bar to touch the right place for the function keys. Of course I had to look at the regular keyboard to hit the right function key as well cause my typing skills don’t extend to those keys but it’s easier to judge where the key should be than on the touchbar. The volume and brightness sliders are nice, but I was much faster with the old keyboard.
I have no issue with the size of the trackpad. If anything they should replace that with a touchscreen and give us back keys for the touchbar.
I don’t have issues with the battery either. I feel it lasts longer tbh. Maybe my workflow is different.
The touch bar doesn’t annoy me as much but I also agree that it’s a gimmick. Mine actually crashed on the first day hah. I find I frequently touch the Siri button by accident which is very annoying when the pop up comes up. I don’t like having to look at the bar to touch the right place for the function keys. Of course I had to look at the regular keyboard to hit the right function key as well cause my typing skills don’t extend to those keys but it’s easier to judge where the key should be than on the touchbar. The volume and brightness sliders are nice, but I was much faster with the old keyboard.
I have no issue with the size of the trackpad. If anything they should replace that with a touchscreen and give us back keys for the touchbar.
I don’t have issues with the battery either. I feel it lasts longer tbh. Maybe my workflow is different.
I'm fine with it. I love the large trackpad, I've gotten used to the keyboard already, and with BTT I've redesigned the TB so it's a bit more to my liking.
One thing I would love is to have a way to scroll using the trackpad while my hands are on the asdf and jkl; keys. My thumb is free, and it would be nice to just scroll using my thumb. Doubt that would be possible though.
One thing I would love is to have a way to scroll using the trackpad while my hands are on the asdf and jkl; keys. My thumb is free, and it would be nice to just scroll using my thumb. Doubt that would be possible though.
Same here. I've owned nine (9) MacBooks Pro (all 15 inch) since the first one in 2006. The current one (2017 13inch TB) has become my favorite.
Full disclosure: I should mention I use the MBP for travel and on-location work. I have an iMac 5K at home.
the keyboard like/dislike its down to personal preference, just because you like it doesn't mean someone else will, and you should not accuse someone of wrong doing just because they have a different preference to you.
i like my keys bottoming out, so for me the new butterfly keys do feel like im typing on wood.
apple would probably redesign the durability aspect of the key, but slim chance of them improving the travel distance which is a shame since if the butter fly keys travel a bit further it would be my favorite keyboard. the trackpad is here to stay, as well as the touchbar imo.
i like my keys bottoming out, so for me the new butterfly keys do feel like im typing on wood.
apple would probably redesign the durability aspect of the key, but slim chance of them improving the travel distance which is a shame since if the butter fly keys travel a bit further it would be my favorite keyboard. the trackpad is here to stay, as well as the touchbar imo.
You have absolutely ZERO data to support what you just said. It is not the case that to MOST people the trackpad is a pleasant upgrade. That is simply you're own personal opinion. As we can see by the poll I've included in this thread, many more people than not agree that the design of the keyboard, trackpad, and other aspects of the device in question should be redesigned.
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Because I use a laptop as a laptop. I don't use external keyboards and mice.
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To say that there is no objectivity to the design of a component of a product is a mistake. What if I told you I have a prototype keyboard I've been working on for the MacBook Pro. It has keys that are .01 cm in size, and .01 cm spaced from one another...
Clearly the size and spacing of the keys, along with key travel are vital aspects to whether a keyboard can be used reliably or not.
I'm not saying that the current keyboard is something that people have no right to like, and that they're wrong if they like it.
I'm saying that because the keys travel so little making typing less comfortable with more finger fatigue as the keys are less cushiony and bottom out; because the keys are closer together than previous MBP keyboards that it's harder to distinguish between each key increasing the error rate since it makes a person more prone to hitting two keys at the same time as well as potentially slowing down typing; and because the size of the keys are so large which increases the distance a finger has to travel from one key to another (FITTS Principle applied via UI design), thereby increasing finger and hand fatigue and potentially increasing the error rate... the current keyboard is flawed.
It may be acceptable to some people and some people may even really like it, but I would challenge anyone to find someone who types a lot everyday... who relies heavily on typing a good volume of words a day... who would say they love this keyboard or even that they prefer it over the last generation MBP.
Right now, my favourite keyboard is on the Surface Book 2. While I despise Windows, this is perhaps one of the best keyboards ever made. Excellent spacing between the keys, strong keys (little wobble), supple, soft, but purposeful key travel, and good key travel. It's highly precise and is amenable to being typed on for long periods of time.
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you should re-read my comment, i'm not disagreeing with you. that is why i'm holding onto my 2015 mbp and using my 2016 with a external keyboard.
Just as you have zero data to support that the trackpad or even the keyboard are universally disliked and cause issues for many users.
And this is supposed to be objective? First of all, your last conclusion just doesn't make any sense — the overall area of the keyboard is identical to previous iterations, so there is no increase in distance of travel. In fact, travel distance is often smaller on the new keyboards, since key spacing is smaller — so going between neighbour keys requires smaller finger movements (on top the things that makes the new keyboard nice). The increased size and new mechanism of 2016+ keys makes them more precise and responsive. They also require less force to activate, pair this with the fact that they don't need to be hit dead on center to activate reliably (in contrast to the older keys that wobble!), and you get yourself a faster, more precise, more ergonomic keyboard.
Lastly, if you are hitting two keys at once, I can't even imagine how exactly you must be using the keyboard. Usage of every tool needs to be learned. If you use the new keyboards just as you use the old, one, then, yeah, the result is predictable. The newer keyboard requires you to change some of your habits. In return, you'd be rewarded with faster and more comfortable typing experience.
It took me about two weeks of getting used to the 2016 keyboard. After this, I can't go back to the 2015 one. I have difficulty typing on the old keyboard, my fingers are missing the keys and the overall experience is quite subpar.
Good morning!
Just as you have zero data to support that the trackpad or even the keyboard are universally disliked and cause issues for many users.
And this is supposed to be objective? First of all, your last conclusion just doesn't make any sense — the overall area of the keyboard is identical to previous iterations, so there is no increase in distance of travel. In fact, travel distance is often smaller on the new keyboards, since key spacing is smaller — so going between neighbour keys requires smaller finger movements (on top the things that makes the new keyrboard nice). The increased size and new mechanism of 2016+ keys makes them more precise and responsive. They also require less force to activate, pair this with the fact that they don't need to be hit dead on center to activate reliably (in contrast to the older keys that wobble!), and you get yourself a faster, more precise, more ergonomic keyboard.
Lastly, if you are hitting two keys at once, I can't even imagine how exactly you must be using the keyboard. Usage of every tool needs to be learned. If you use the new keyboards just as you use the old, one, then, yeah, the result is predictable. The newer keyboard requires you to change some of your habits. In return, you'd be rewarded with faster and more comfortable typing experience.
It took me about two weeks of getting used to the 2016 keyboard. After this, I can't go back to the 2015 one. I have difficulty typing on the old keyboard, my fingers are missing the keys and the overall experience is quite subpar.
Good morning!
First, yes I do have data to support what the trackpad/keyboard are disliked. The poll in this thread is one indication. The many articles online about respected Tech Bloggers and Web commenters are another. And now a class action lawsuit over the keyboard.
The keyboard is complex. You and me will not agree on the conclusions you draw. And the dimensions of the two different keyboards are actually not quite the same...