A dual processor hackintosh (using Xeon CPUs) is a pretty ambitious goal for a novice. Most builds use Core CPUs. And if I understand correctly, as the Mac Pro has stagnated, support for recent Xeon generations has become more difficult.
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The Hackintosh Thread
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A dual processor hackintosh (using Xeon CPUs) is a pretty ambitious goal for a novice. Most builds use Core CPUs. And if I understand correctly, as the Mac Pro has stagnated, support for recent Xeon generations has become more difficult.
Oh, my! You're now looking at server motherboard, me thinks. What are your requirements for such a beast? The Buyer's Guide wasn't meant for your type of computing. However, I'll look to see if I can find anybody using such a system. But, be advised that you are in the 0.5% or less of the hackintosh marketplace.
Have you considered a X99 EATX or ATX motherboard? (I don't know any off the top of my head that would have two M.2 slots, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Ah, a quest...)
BTW, the TMX forum has a great great Apple case mod section with lots of success stories. I like Laser Hive's conversion products, too, as I have A G4 Sawtooth and G5 (late 2005) Laser Hive kits.
Update: The Gigabyte Z170X-SOC Force has three M.2 slots!
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I have often wondered how stable Hackintosh systems are since drivers have to be difficult to obtain since they aren't fully supported? Especially GPUs?
By supported do you mean ones that Apple uses? I would really like to use like the latest NVIDIA cards.
I really don't understand why people insist on running pre-release OSes so often. Just run the latest shipping version of OS X, which is currently 10.11.4, and the NVIDIA web driver is really easy to find. If you insist on running a pre-release OS version, then you need to deal with any incompatibilities with the web drivers. Maxwell GPUs are well supported by the latest official web drivers.
By drivers, do you mean the kexts/drivers for audio and Ethernet? Or do you mean the Nvidia Web drivers? The tonymacx86 site has a post installation program, MultiBeast, that allows you to select those drivers. The Nvidia web drivers are the same for both Macs and hacks - you have to wait for Nvidia to update their drivers after Apple releases an OS X update. I recommend you go to the tonymacx86.com site and look at the installation guide(s); then do the same at insanelymac.com. You'll be more knowledgeable after reviewing how to run a hackintosh. Good luck!
BTW, whether you're running on a Mac or a hack, I've always recommended that for production purposes you should always wait for the 10.x.3 release as that release has the major bugs worked out. Being an early adopter is always fraught with risk. (I've been using OS X since the 10.0 Beta release and that's been my experience.)
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I have been closely following the mac pro thread but I gotta say that building a hack is tempting. One of the things I am interested in is gaming and an Intel 6700K plus an Nvidia GTX 1080 would be one hell of a machine and cost about half as much as a mac pro.
Can anyone weigh in on what its like to run a hackintosh on a day to day basis. I believe I am capable of setting one up and and maintaining it but to be honest I would really prefer not to have the hassle. I spend a lot of my day fighting with computers and I would rather not do it at home.
What about things like iMessage? iTunes music? DRMd content? Apps from the app store? Anyone here end up buying the real thing after getting frustrated with the hack?
My biggest fear is spending $1.5-$2k on parts and then not being able to get OS X up and running reliably.
Can anyone weigh in on what its like to run a hackintosh on a day to day basis. I believe I am capable of setting one up and and maintaining it but to be honest I would really prefer not to have the hassle. I spend a lot of my day fighting with computers and I would rather not do it at home.
What about things like iMessage? iTunes music? DRMd content? Apps from the app store? Anyone here end up buying the real thing after getting frustrated with the hack?
My biggest fear is spending $1.5-$2k on parts and then not being able to get OS X up and running reliably.
I've been running hacks for years, but in 2014 with the introduction of X99, I replaced my '08 Mac Pro with an X99 hack and have been using that on a daily basis. I can safely say that if you are patient enough and get your bugs ironed out, running the hack on a day-to-day basis is nothing to worry about. That being said, updates can be problematic depending on your platform. For example, my two Precision M6600s are stuck on Yosemite (I say stuck, but in reality they just run better on it) but they run it flawlessly once I had ironed out the kinks. My X99 tower hasn't moved from 10.11.1 due to some issues with updating, but if you're comfortable sitting on a system (and if you're patient enough and have the hardware to keep backups) it can be a stable and pleasant experience.
If you don't want to "have a hassle," you're venturing into the wrong forest. However, if you're willing to sit down, put a lot of time and effort into reading, learning, and understanding what you are working with, running a hack as your main system on a day to day basis is just as good as having an official Apple computer. All of the issues I've had with my computer in the past... oh, probably 6-8 months... are hardware problems that have nothing to do with OS X (failing drives, etc.) and to be quite honest, having OS X on my system has made FIXING those issues much better. The software available exclusively for Mac makes my life much easier. Drive restores are easy with Carbon Copy Cloner, formatting with the OS X disk utility is a thousand times better than anything in Windows.
I'm unfamiliar with the iTunes DRM issues, but I've read that they exist. I don't really use iTunes for movie playback. iMessage (as it stands right now at the time of writing this) is working fine with Clover as a bootloader, though back in 2014, Apple hard restricted their servers and prompted me to purchase a dead MacBook and use the MLB and serial from that for my main computer; who's to say this won't happen again? Apps from the App Store work fine. No issues there.
From my point of view, if you want a desktop system, it's a no brainer to build a hack. However, I've been doing this for years, and your milage may vary. Knowledge is the name of the game. Read up. If you get stuck, read more. Don't be afraid to wipe your system. Ask questions if you need to, but be kind and courteous to the people helping you and provide the files they request. It can be a nice existence.
-N
Netflix doesn't work in "native" mode on my Hac (Asus Z170, nVidia 960) and requires Silverlight. Even more annoyingly, going into fullscreen sometimes results in significant frame rate issues
iMessage - yes, but it's a little finicky. FaceTime is easier. SMS (non iMessage) and cellular phone calls work, but Handoff for other apps (Safari, Mail) does not. (At least not in my setup, using an Atheros wifi card. A Broadcom card might be more compatible.)
iTunes music - yes.
DRM content - dunno. I just tried watching a purchased movie in my iTunes library and it wouldn't work. But I've heard of HDCP issues with legit Macs, too, so don't know if this is a necessarily a hackintosh issue. EDITED to add: I have the same Netflix issue as Nermal - it says that I need Silverlight. But Hulu videos play fine.
Apps from the App Store work fine.
I did the upgraded 2009 Mac Pro thing for a while, but I'm glad that I switched to a hackintosh. It can be a little frustrating at times, but it's fun, too.
Newer Broadcom cards are required to enable handoff; it's a hardware restriction, probably just because Macs have shipped with Broadcom cards for the past while.
Netflix doesn't work in "native" mode on my Hac (Asus Z170, nVidia 960) and requires Silverlight. Even more annoyingly, going into fullscreen sometimes results in significant frame rate issues
AFAIK, Intel graphics are required to use the "Native" Safari mode on Netflix. I wonder if it's possible to drive a display using the integrated graphics and achieve this, even with a discrete card... Though, I suppose the display you'd want Netflix on you would also want to be the one running off the discrete card... Does the trash can Mac Pro have "Native" Netflix? Would be interesting to know...
Well, I'm running the hack in my signature block everyday for general purpose computing and recording my band's (me, myself & I) practice sessions with GarageBand. I have USB 2/3 on the rear panel with the USB 3.1 Type-A & C ports running at USB 3 speeds (need Apple to get on the ball and release a new Mac Pro), and I have a Firewire 400/800 PCIe card. I also have an iMac WiFi/BT4 card in a PCIe adapter which works great; although I don't use the hand off much, it does work with this card. If you get the GTX 1080, don't be an early adopter; I think that we'll have to wait for OS X 10.12 (or whatever its going to be called) before we'll see a more robust Nvidia web driver as several folks here have speculated.
There is a guide for iMessage. iTunes music works fine. However, HDCP/DRM is broken, and you can't run protected movies from the iTunes store; somehow that got broken with the Intel 6-series systems several years ago. I use apps from the MAS all the time - iLife, iWorks, Capo, TinyWord, Airmail (so much better than Apple's mail app), and many more. Finally, depending upon what you're trying to do with your Mac/hack, there are people that get frustrated for one reason or another and go back to Apple computers, but not many that I'm aware of.
I know that's what you'd spend for a max'd out gaming system. But, you can still run windoze on it. LOL!
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Great post, thanks for the reply. I have been keeping tabs on the community for awhile and have been holding out to see what Apple does with the next version of the Mac Pro. Hopefully Nvidia keeps its drivers up to date for Pascal and I can build a hack if I'm not happy with whatever Apple does or does not announce.
extremely unlikely you are going to find a motherboard which has all that. 4K will be determined by your graphics card, so you can scratch that off, but dual processor + multi M2 is something I have never seen, and I work in hosting/datacenters and see most server-grade hardware come through our office at some point or another. Its hard to find dual M2 even on most normal desktop boards. Usually only ITX and high-end gaming ATX will have dual M2s.
secondly, a dual-processor setup is going to necessitate an E5, which is going to do two things
1. greatly increase the amount of research and prep you will need to do to make sure you're using SPECIFIC hardware (we're talking down to board revision level) 2011 is already a minefield of compatibility problems, not to mention energy saver (dont count on getting sleep to work, ever - last i checked this still didnt work right on dual systems)
2. SIGNIFICANTLY increase your cost. E5 cpus are already extremely expensive. add a second one, plus a specific board which could also get costly. server boards are NOT cheap - you'll be spending $300 easily for the basic models from Supermicro, Tyan, etc.
Trust me on this, you really dont want to go out on a limb on this one, especially if its your first build. Ive been doing this for over six years at this point, I'd like to think im fairly capable, and my last build I decided to go out on a limb - I now have $1200 in hardware that is unusable as a hackintosh as a result.... for no other reason than a graphics energy saver issue at the DSDT level, which, in my research, I found to be a moderately common problem with dual xeon builds and *no one* has been able to fix - even the big names like Rampagedev.
if you really want the most juice you can get, go for a gaming-level ATX with single E5 or i7 2011-series. lots of people have done those, and have ironed out the issues you'll run into already.
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ehhhhhhh not 100%, you can run into some issues when there is an OS update, did a build for a buddy and had to go safe mode after 11.3 update, install updated driver, then reboot, but it can throw a wrench in your day if you're not expecting it...
[doublepost=1463365985][/doublepost]ive built probably about 35 hackintoshes at this point for myself and for other people. some dual xeons, some single procs, even did an AMD once... that was a challenge lol.
my current "main" system that im using in my studio is as follows:
E3-1270v2 (basically an i7-3770k without integrated graphics)
Intel DZ77RE-75K Thunderbolt motherboard (doesnt show in system profiler but works, tested with UAD apollo no issues, FW adapters work fine)
32GB 1866 ram
2x 240GB Sandisk Extreme Pro SSD in RAID0 (yes i like living on the edge, yes i have time machine, yes its been running 2+ years zero issues)
XFX HD7750 single-slot graphics card
Noctua cooling fans + NH-C14 heatsink (apple wishes their fans were this quiet - why havent they bought this company?)
UAD-2 Octo PCIe
TC Powercore DSP PCIe
TC Powercore DSP PCI x2 (yes, PCI!)
MOTU PCIe-424
this machine has been running for over two years solid as a rock. Im still on Mavericks, due to the Powercore cards, but for the most part, its totally stable. I have had issues with it after a couple power outages and it would get touchy, but its been great for sessions and has never given me trouble. And the fact that I can still use my old as dirt PCI cards is pretty damn neat if you ask me.
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I built a few and they were stables. It's very straightforward, never had any issues with on-board audio or network cards. Just make sure you clone the hard disk before applying any major OS updates. I use a GTX680.
Not sure if usb3 was working properly but no issue with sleep/wake.
But I got tired of doing it, I use mostly linux & windows now. Can't wait for affinity designer & photo to ship on Windows!
I built a Hackintosh with the following specs (prices in Canadian dollars)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Arctic White w/ Window Side Panel - $145
CPU: Intel Core i7 4790k - $420
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK - $180
RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury White 1866mhz (4 sticks @ 8gb each) - $220
Power Supply: Seasonic X650 - $160
GPU: Asus Strix GTX 960 4GB - $305
Storage For Mac OS X: Intel 320 120gb SSD - $0 (taken from my old comp)
Storage For Windows: Western Digital Blue 1TB - $65
Cooler: Phanteks TC14PE - $105
Wifi: TP-LINK TL-WDN4800 - $45
Total Cost: $1,645 CAD / $1,299 USD
The Final Build:
(windowed side panel taken off for photo)
Building:
Took me two days to get it all put together, installed and get the quirks worked out with the motherboard's BIOS. Still having issues running 32gb of RAM, it's stable at 16gb, will need to do some more McGyvering around with it. I should note that I didn't take into account that Gigabyte motherboards have a Qualified Vendors List of RAM sticks that are basically 'certified' and assumed any RAM would work without hitch only to find out my dilemma later (oddly enough, Windows runs perfectly fine with 4 sticks. I still need to try out some timing settings in the BIOS, potentially a Systems Definition to mimic an iMac 14,2, or finally, a BIOS update. My RAM is HX318C10FWK2/16. If all else fails I'm going to be forced to run the system at 16gb and sell the two other sticks OR swap my motherboard to the Z97X-UD5H-BK as my RAM is on the support list for that mobo.
*UPDATE*
32GB RAM issue seems to be fixed. Did a new install of OS X Yosemite with a new bootable USB installed (last time I created it with Legacy Support). This time I chose iMac 14,2 system definition and omitted the NCPM. However, I needed to switch to Mac Pro 3,1 system definition to install the Nvidia Web Drivers. In BIOS, loaded optimized defaults and after OS X installed I disabled the IGP and LAN WAKE, as well as turned off wake on LAN and ethernet (I'm running wireless) as well as
VT-d disabled and Intel Virtualization Disabled.
OS X Installation:
In regards to the install, it was actually significantly easier than I anticipated thanks to the instructions laid out on TonyMacx86.
Essentially, all one really needs to do is find a motherboard from TonyMac's Buyer's Guide and then look for a user build in the forums as the guidelines state to show the steps necessary. Then, just follow the steps. For my motherboard, I use this guide.
Chimera boot screen is great as it allows me to quickly select if I want to boot into OS X or my Windows partition found on another hard drive. Boot time from the point of turning on the computer to getting into OS X is actually surprisingly fast with the SSD, in fact, faster than my old 2008 Mac Pro with an SSD.
Performance:
My current Geekbench score is 18,041 (64 bit multicore) without overclocking. This is roughly the same speed as a 2009 Xserve. The iMac Retina with the same processor scores 16,547 (scores here: https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks) but it's lower because it has very poor cooling and it's throttled down. If I chose to overclock, I could hit around 22,000 points (pretty normal for the 4790k).
Overall performance, this thing is AWESOME. The ability to have true SLI in Windows, plenty of fast CUDA cores for work in After Effects, 60fps+ gaming across all games at max settings (1920x1200 w/ 2xMSAA) and the options of swapping parts at will is freaking GREAT. I'm finally not bound to the limitations of an iMac or the ridiculous price tag of a Mac Pro. THIS is the middle ground that Apple has been in need of creating for YEARS but refuses to do so.
Temperatures:
In regards to temperatures, idle temps in OS X (via iStat Menus, yes they work) are around 26-29C, which is very low. Running chrome, with a few extensions and playing back a youtube clip jumps the temps to around 31-34C. Max temperatures are at 75C, not too shabby considering it's air cooled. I might try a different method of applying the thermal paste.
Noise Levels:
As for noise levels, they are insanely low. I have a very difficult time hearing the machine run... I have to put my ear up to the computer just to hear it at idle. I've *carefully* selected ultra quiet parts for it, so its almost dead silent. What's crazy is that the noise levels could be even lower IF I turned my power supplies mode into hybrid (fan turns on only when under 20% or higher) but I prefer to keep it cool AND the fact that the side panel has a window where as the standard case has sound isolated padding to keep noise to an absolute minimum. At full load, the computer generates only a low hum thanks to the GTX 960 being a quiet card and it's fans only turning when hitting 60C temps.
Quirks:
Once setup though, nearly everything works as normal EXCEPT for:
Audio doesn't work after waking from sleep mode but I use USB speakers so it's not a big deal. This can be fixed but I haven't looked into it yet.
Facetime and iMessage I can't confirm if they work, the apps load but I dont have any accounts to log into as I use Android.
Conclusions & Comparison to a Mac Pro:
I wonder why I never did this sooner. I've owned a PowerMac G4 MDD, Mac Pro 1,1, Mac Pro 3,1, MacBook Pro 2010, 2011 and 2012. Overall value of this machine has been terrific but without the limitations of my previous Mac Pro desktops. The 2008 Mac Pro I had created an incredible bottleneck with a GTX 660 and GTX 960 I had in it which was the final straw for me to ditch the desktop Mac Pro experience. While I could have opted for a used 2009 or 2010 dual processor Mac Pro and upgraded the processors to the x5690 processors for an addition $500 USD + shipping & customs import taxes (I live in Canada), finding a 2009 Mac Pro at a reasonable price WITHOUT scratches, dings, etc. would be difficult and would cost me about $2,000 USD anyway while also having to run two processors at 130 watts each, thus generating a lot of heat and ultimately fan noise to keep things cool which DOES make a difference in my room, it gets very warm with that much power consumption especially with my Dell u2410 monitor (it runs very hot). I've actually made a comparison of costs of 'geekbench points', essentially how much each geekbench point is worth dollars to points wise here. And while an old 2009/2010 Mac Pro upgraded to two X5690 processors DOES prove to be extremely cost effective, there are other necessary costs with it as well; requires additional cards for USB 3.0 and those have been unreliable. The cost is greater anyway and I don't yet require THAT much horsepower.
Bladerunner2000, your post is from some time ago. I am curious if its still running without any problems? Is it your daily work computer? Sometimes i trespass thinking about building an hackingtosh but i wonder if it is worth all the trouble while W10 is a fine OS.
I am planning a 5820k (or 6800k), 1080 gpu (or a 1070), 64gb mem DDR4, bunch of SSD disks, 2 raid 0 ssd disks for adobe scratch.. Pointed to a adobe photoshop (digital painting) / illustrator monster + some light video editing. It will be my workhorse for the next 2 years
You can also get an pci-e to m.2 card as well the basic ones just pass pci-e X4 to the m.2 slot.
As luck would have it, I stumbled upon a Dell PC that someone tossed out... Having been very curious on the difficulty and what's involved with hackintoshing a computer, I brought it home and got it up and running.
I found a long thread about the specific model (Dell Optiplex 780) that I had on insanelymac.com, I did lots of reading and proceeded to follow the guide. Although the guide was a tad confusing, I managed to get it all up and running El Capitan within a few hours. I have to say that it didn't seem nearly as daunting as some had led me to believe. I also felt that it was easier than installing Windows 7 and upgrading to Windows 10.
I'm going to continue testing this hack and see if there are any stability and/or compatibility issues. I'll report back in a few days with more experiences.
I found a long thread about the specific model (Dell Optiplex 780) that I had on insanelymac.com, I did lots of reading and proceeded to follow the guide. Although the guide was a tad confusing, I managed to get it all up and running El Capitan within a few hours. I have to say that it didn't seem nearly as daunting as some had led me to believe. I also felt that it was easier than installing Windows 7 and upgrading to Windows 10.
I'm going to continue testing this hack and see if there are any stability and/or compatibility issues. I'll report back in a few days with more experiences.
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Yup! Still running perfectly fine... and it's been under a VERY heavy load too. In the last couple or so months I've converted about 100 movies @ 1080p, so it's been running at full speed for about 12 hours a day sometimes 36 straight hours. One of the Kingston RAM sticks did fail though, but that could happen to a Mac too, especially since we often buy 3rd party RAM anyway.
My only gripe is that I'm still running 10.10.4 and updating the OS will likely botch the install, so I'd be better reinstalling OS X from scratch. I've no intention of going to El Capitan as I wont be able to use TotalFinder or XtraFinder, so Yosemite has been great for me. Honestly, I've had two Mac Pros and a Powermac before my Hackintosh... I'm really glad I went out and made it. It didn't cost a fortune and runs circles around every Mac on the market except for the Mac Pro... which nobody should pay that much for, the price is a slap to the face of the consumer.
People will expend a lot of energy justifying their actions. Getting OS X running on a pre-built system is far more difficult than getting it going on one you've built. If you follow the any of the various HW guides whether it be tMX86 or IM installing OS X is really just a next, next, reboot affair and clovers ability to patch on the fly makes updating mostly a non issue.
I've had to use my hackintosh at work when my Mac Pro has gone down I just slap my project drive into the hack boot and I'm back to work.
You have to pay in some way to use computers some require a payment in time and others require a payment in money regardless you pay.