It's starting to appear that the cure is worse than the disease. I've deleted both truecaller and Hiya. I'll go back to ignoring the occasional spam caller.
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The iOS 10 Call Blocking & Identification Apps Thread
- Thread starter hank moody
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Hi,
The name is now changed to "SPAM".
Best,
Kamran
[doublepost=1478008132][/doublepost]
We collect our data through our partnership with different phone directories, social networks and our Truecaller community.
If you have downloaded Truecaller from Google Play or iTunes, your phonebook will not be shared.
Best,
Kamran @ Truecaller
If so, then how have you built your database?
Never mind, it was a rhetorical question as you have answered it yourself in Truecaller Privacy Policy (Revised March 8, 2016) on your website, namely:
"When you install and use the Truecaller Apps, Truecaller will collect, process and retain personal information from You and any devices You may use in Your interaction with our Services. This information may include the following: geo-location, Your IP address, device ID or unique identifier, device manufacturer and type, device and hardware settings, ID for advertising, ad data, operating system, operator, IMSI, connection information, screen resolution, usage statistics, device log and event information, incoming and outgoing calls and messages, times and date of calls, duration of calls, version of the Truecaller Apps You use and other information based on Your interaction with our Services. Truecaller may use the information collected from, and in connection with, all of our services to provide, maintain, and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Truecaller and its users. Truecaller also uses this information to provide you with tailored content, such as search results and advertisements more relevant to You."
Id est: the data - amongst others - is crowd-sourced from the users who have downloaded the truecaller application on their smartphones.
This is my concern. They can assure us that our info is safe with them, but why should we trust that? You've already caught their rep lying about contacts being uploaded to their servers, why wouldn't they lie about everything else? How would we know? I'm hoping Apple eventually does this themselves and we don't have to have the ridiculous choice of having to upload our contacts.
Scary. Incoming and outgoing calls, messages, time/date/duration of calls, etc.
"Truecaller also uses this information to provide you with tailored content, such as search results and advertisements more relevant to You". Yep they don't sell our information... yeah ok
I don't know whether its safe with them or not.
Even this aspect can be relative. I don't think that data searchable on their website by anyone can be considered safe.
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I haven't installed Truecaller and the other apps recently being spoken of. I have been following the thread and it looks to me, like the maker of Truecaller et al is data mining and possibly making money with the information gotten from the apps sold.
You can't even use the 'free' phone number database on the Truecaller site, unless you log in with Facebook or Google first etc.
The apps involved are asking for permission to access information that they have no business obtaining in the first place.Numbers can be blocked without an app needing the kind of personal information Truecaller and the other apps are wanting. I would steer clear of Truecaller and any of the other apps made by the same developer.
You can't even use the 'free' phone number database on the Truecaller site, unless you log in with Facebook or Google first etc.
The apps involved are asking for permission to access information that they have no business obtaining in the first place.Numbers can be blocked without an app needing the kind of personal information Truecaller and the other apps are wanting. I would steer clear of Truecaller and any of the other apps made by the same developer.
Very small sample size, but Hiya has been batting 1000 for me over the past few days.
I've received 8 calls from numbers I do not recognize in the past 3 days. Hiya has identified 6 as some sort of spam or scam. The other 2 I answered, and it turned out to be my mortgage broker calling from a different number and my doctor's office. Before I would likely have ignored these calls, but I am glad I answered them.
I hope they keep it up.
I've received 8 calls from numbers I do not recognize in the past 3 days. Hiya has identified 6 as some sort of spam or scam. The other 2 I answered, and it turned out to be my mortgage broker calling from a different number and my doctor's office. Before I would likely have ignored these calls, but I am glad I answered them.
I hope they keep it up.
I thought I’d reach out to clarify how we think around privacy and how we handle user data. We know that in today’s world, privacy is a top concern. That is why we make sure we have clear principals we follow, and allow our users to decide how their information is shown or shared.
Users are always told what the Truecaller app requires in order to function for the best user experience. Sometimes it requires certain permissions, this is optional and users can always deactivate this any time.
As for the iOS platform, we don’t have access to out & incoming calls, and it’s against Apple policy to upload users phonebook and make them accessible to the public. We abide those policies, just to be clear.
Our users rely on Truecaller on a daily basis. In order to keep offering these popular features for free we have ads to support the business. We use data to show you relevant ads, but we do not sell personal information to any other company.
Alireza
Product Manager @ Truecaller
"When you install and use the Truecaller Apps, Truecaller will collect, process and retain personal information from You and any devices You may use in Your interaction with our Services. This information may include the following: geo-location, Your IP address, device ID or unique identifier, device manufacturer and type, device and hardware settings, ID for advertising, ad data, operating system, operator, IMSI, connection information, screen resolution, usage statistics, device log and event information, incoming and outgoing calls and messages, times and date of calls, duration of calls, version of the Truecaller Apps You use and other information based on Your interaction with our Services. Truecaller may use the information collected from, and in connection with, all of our services to provide, maintain, and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Truecaller and its users. Truecaller also uses this information to provide you with tailored content, such as search results and advertisements more relevant to You."
I think this is part of the reason for the lack of trust. It may be in reference to Android though, but it still speaks volumes and begs the question why would you need that information? You also say that certain permissions are optional and can be deactivated, but in my experience deactivating permissions isn't possible, Truecaller keeps routing you back to the setup screen with permissions deactivated. Maybe that's changed in the last version, I haven't tried it. It's concerning that these reps have been caught lying before about uploading information to their servers, it's difficult to trust them. As for information being sold or passed on to other companies, it's great to have a low level rep's personal assurance on this, but how does that instill any trust in me that legally I am protected? It instills exactly zero trust. Private information laws are really a huge black hole right now and in many instances there are really no legal protections out there at all. The only protection is to not allow your information to be accessed by the app, and trust that Apple will respect your choice, which I'm ok with.
I don't think companies like Truecaller truly realize the extend of the mistrust out there, and much of that aimed at companies like them. Well they don't realize, or they don't care. It seems like the name of the game is to make as much money as possible before you are shut down. My prediction is that Apple just comes out and provides caller ID and spam protection and companies like Truecaller will go out of business overnight.
Look people enough. This is not a privacy debate or the proper place for such. Dont like the terms don't use that app, it's fairly simple really.
Going on and on about mere and utter speculation isn't going to change the facts, and that they are saying flat out that Apple does not allow an app to upload the phonebook and they abide by this; and Apple approves the code.
Clauses being pointed out on websites are drafted INCREDIBLY generally when done to cover every possible scenario and state's laws, especially when on various platforms that some may aggregate data and some may not. They say they dont upload your phonebook and Apple doesnt allow that; either take that at face value or dont.
If you dont trust it dont use it, end of story really. If you have evidence contrary to what is being stated by the company then present it.
P.S. many apps use "number matching" which I think people are referring to where a phone number is compared to their database and marked "safe" being in your contacts without actually collecting the contact info from your contacts to sell or put into a database. Whatsapp does this as do many apps:
https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/en/general/20971813
"WhatsApp uses the phone numbers from your phone's address book to provide you an up-to-date list of WhatsApp users you know to make it easier for you to message them via WhatsApp. WhatsApp regularly looks at the phone numbers in your address book and then checks to see which of those numbers are verified in WhatsApp. This allows any WhatsApp users from your address book to appear as contacts in your Favorites list (Contacts tab on Android) and the Chats screen. During this entire process, phone numbers are sent to WhatsApp for lookup, securely, over an encrypted connection. So that you know who you are chatting with, the app then displays the names from your address book."
Back to discussing the different apps and comparing them.
Going on and on about mere and utter speculation isn't going to change the facts, and that they are saying flat out that Apple does not allow an app to upload the phonebook and they abide by this; and Apple approves the code.
Clauses being pointed out on websites are drafted INCREDIBLY generally when done to cover every possible scenario and state's laws, especially when on various platforms that some may aggregate data and some may not. They say they dont upload your phonebook and Apple doesnt allow that; either take that at face value or dont.
If you dont trust it dont use it, end of story really. If you have evidence contrary to what is being stated by the company then present it.
P.S. many apps use "number matching" which I think people are referring to where a phone number is compared to their database and marked "safe" being in your contacts without actually collecting the contact info from your contacts to sell or put into a database. Whatsapp does this as do many apps:
https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/en/general/20971813
"WhatsApp uses the phone numbers from your phone's address book to provide you an up-to-date list of WhatsApp users you know to make it easier for you to message them via WhatsApp. WhatsApp regularly looks at the phone numbers in your address book and then checks to see which of those numbers are verified in WhatsApp. This allows any WhatsApp users from your address book to appear as contacts in your Favorites list (Contacts tab on Android) and the Chats screen. During this entire process, phone numbers are sent to WhatsApp for lookup, securely, over an encrypted connection. So that you know who you are chatting with, the app then displays the names from your address book."
Back to discussing the different apps and comparing them.
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Read carefully their Privacy Policy linked in these thread. And give it a thought how was it possible to build a database of 2 billion phone numbers without uploading contacts information.
There is an unequivocal contradiction in the above statement.
Last but not least: if the company "never share any contents public", how is it possible to search their database of 2 billion phone numbers online on their website? Is it considered "not public"? (SIC!)
Again, I dont personally care. And this is not an ethical debate thread but rather comparing apps in this category. This is not the place for a privacy ethical debate. Dont like the app? Opt out and uninstall it or never install it.
And if you dont think you carrier and other services/creditors are not selling your personal info, you are dead dead wrong. Installing this app is likely not giving them anything they dont already have or cannot freely get on the open market.
But again, read my last post fully and you will see how they are likely doing it with whitelisting numbers as "trusted" or "not spam" that people have in their phonebooks with number matching rather than uploading your phonebook into a database. Thus still conforming to Apple's policies. But many many apps do this very only like Whatsapp and I've never seen whining about Whatsapp doing it despite a few hundred million users.
Dont trust the app dont use it. Period. No gun to one's head to install it or keep it installed and it's free so no money lost. Move on.
They are not going to go away no matter how many pages people spew privacy this or that here; other than just detracting from the conversation comparing and contrasting this sector of apps.
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I agree with @stulaw11. I liked this thread more when we compared the performance of the apps at blocking spam calls.
Trying to get the company reps in a "gotcha" is not productive.
Trying to get the company reps in a "gotcha" is not productive.
1. It's your own business what you care about.
2. This thread is dealing with iOS 10 call blocking and identification apps. And we are discussing the modus operandi of Truecaller which is a call blocking and identification application.
3. I am fully aware how this application works. In your place I would give a thought to the fact that for identification the application has to be connected to the net.
3. What concerns your self-proclaimed moderation attempt, don't like what you read, use the ignore button.
I wish my iPhone 6S Plus had the call blocking features my HTC 10 does.
On the 10, you can block a caller, block a contact, or proactively just input a phone number you want to block (they don't have to be a caller or contact).
Quite a nice feature.
On the 10, you can block a caller, block a contact, or proactively just input a phone number you want to block (they don't have to be a caller or contact).
Quite a nice feature.
Privacy and contact handling is one component in the decision making of which call blocking id app I'll use. So I'm for the questioning of the developers on these topics.
Privacy should be part of the topic, last I checked no one is limiting this thread, nor should they be.
They stated their position very clearly and more than once now. If anyone has concrete evidence contrary to that statement then present it. Denial is opinion not evidence.
Otherwise it is beating one's head against the wall to continue to question a CS rep who can only give the company's official position that they work for. This CS rep admitting anything in writing is about as likely as Hillary ever admitting her corruption, lies, and fraud.
But if there was this alleged smoking gun why has no one found anything still with these apps being out for years; 2 years for True Caller to the day nearly.
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Yes it is our prerogative, so now you can move on from your whining, moaning and crying and let us get back to aspects of these apps which are important to some of us and relevant in our discussion and appraisal. I don't see an iota of evidence on your side as you defend them either. You can insult some of us as tin foil wearing privacy nuts all you want, I won't stoop to that level of immaturity. But privacy concerns are very real, and there is a huge black hole in privacy laws and how our privacy is handled. I don't begrudge you the right to give up your privacy if that's what you want, but I won't blindly do it.
Once again discussing privacy concerns of an app are just as important as discussing the merits of an app such as performance and functionality. If you think I'm wrong then by all means report me to a mod and we will get our answer.
I'm just trying to find answers to my questions as I evaluate these apps. I'm not a developer and like most consumers don't have the technical knowledge to automatically know how the underpinnings work in relation to privacy. If their TOS states they access my caller logs and message, how am I supposed to understand if i don't ask questions on a forum designed for the community to give answers and explore questions. If I decide to share my contacts I also feel obligated to be careful with their information and not blindly give it to everyone.
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Thanks.
As we learned, Truecaller and Hiya require access to contacts to work as intended.
So how about the others? Is there any App that does get the job done without requiring access to contacts?