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iPad Pro The iPad PRO is finally PRO.
- Thread starter TheRealAlex
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You’re still skeptical of the GUI introduced (generally) with the Mac, aren’t you?
You’re the exact person Steve Jobs had in mind when he wanted to remove the cursor keys from the Macintosh’s keyboard to force people to use the mouse.
Call me cynical, but I don’t think today’s Apple would go for this, given that it would reduce Mac sales.
Maybe a few year ago when the company was more daring to compete with its own existing product lines to create new uses. But I think this time is gone.
So, when you remove it form the keyboard…does it just turn off? Does it reboot? Does it go into some transition state back into iPadOS? Are files accessibly across the two operating systems, or is it like two separate worlds?
Seems like people who champion this make it seem like macOS will just be a skin or something. It’s a different operating system. I can’t imagine it’s as simple as “oh, put it on the keyboard and it’s macOS, take it off and it’s iPadOS!”
Oh my..... 1,000+ TOPS? If that is true we are at least 5 years away before M series chips achieves that level of performance at Apple required low power rating. The rumor of on device generative AI functionality in the iPhone 16 A18 chip seems quite hard unless Apple pulled some magical AI architecture or model processing magic that requires significantly less TOPS while being as good as the 1,000+ TOPS models.
A14 = 11 TOPS
M1 = 11 TOPS
A15 = 15.8 TOPS
M2 = 15.8 TOPS
A16 = 17 TOPS
M3 = 18 TOPS
A17 Pro = 35 TOPS
M4 = 38 TOPS
I believe that the M4 is based on the A17 Pro or a hybrid to it, rather than being based of the A18.
A18 is rumored to have twice the neural engine as the A17 pro so maybe 32 npu cores?
A18 = 80+ TOPS?
M5 = 80+ TOPS?
If that is true then the AI features that are rumored to run on device on the iPhone 16 won't be available on the M4 iPad and M4 Macs. Inline with the rumor that only the iPhone will receive it first on iOS 18 while MacOS 15 is not rumored to receive it. Then maybe MacOS 16 will get it, by then M5 Macs will start to appear.
It seems like a multitrillion dollar company with the leading history of interface design could actually work on this and find a solution.
I worry that bc they love selling us ipads AND macs, they won't ever allow the iPad to be truly great.
It's not really about reducing sales, but rather it's just ugly shoehorning that doesn't pass Apple's quality requirements.
Apple developed separate interfaces for macOS and iPadOS. One is designed around touch and the other cursor. They even carved out iPadOS from iOS. Letting iPad run macOS would be ugly.
As nice as the new iPads are, in a couple of weeks, MS will probably unveil a new Surface Pro 10 with the Snapdragon Elite X running Arm Windows 11, and OLED. If this if true, it will get my attention. Competition is good.
Arm Windows needs some improvement, but that's a pretty good start. Point is, there's no question about Pro here.
Arm Windows needs some improvement, but that's a pretty good start. Point is, there's no question about Pro here.
Very interesting times indeed.
Yeah it would be cool to have an iPadOS that is equally capable as MacOS but retains the touch UI friendliness.
Ability to multi window app and file management would be nice. And the ability to add and remove sound files from Apple Music app and external drive management would be amazing.
The problem I think is that Mac apps UI are not touch friendly enough for Apple's liking I think. So they do not allow them to run on the iPad. Not sure.
Apple doesn't want it because apps designed for Mac on iPad would be ugly and frustrating. Yes, Windows allows it. They also allow for all forms of ugliness. Apple doesn't even allow 32-bit apps.
You have cause and effect reversed. Apple's focus on aesthetics, design, and usability is what allows 30%. Not the other way around.
I would not enjoy windows level of UI unrefiness on iPadOS or MacOS. That is the reason I use Apple products! Apple's UI protocol requires all 3rd party (mostly) to follow Apple UI principles. Thats why it feels like the whole experience feels like a unified graphical language.
It is both.
100% agree that in its current form macOS would be a poor experience on the iPad (I actually had a post on this yesterday).
But if Apple really wanted to make the iPad Pro a laptop competitor when using it with a Magic Keyboard, they would have had plenty of time and resources to either bring more laptop features to iPadOS (my preferred option) or add a proper tablet UI to MacOS. Clearly they don’t want to do it for the time being.
Perhaps, but what is the argument against having iPad and MBA? They both so thin and light it wouldn’t be hard to carry around. And at home even easier, just grab the device you need at a given moment. With this solution you basically have one screen less in terms of stuff to carry. And half battery life compared to having both devices. Many want this hybrid to happen but is there really enough added value?
I agree that the reason of Apple wanting to take the 30% cut and encourage people to buy iPad apps is also likely true.
From the UI standpoint I also agree that Pro apps need the intricate precision of a mouse and the variety of input from a keyboard. And that is why designing a touch friendly Pro app is that much more difficult and limiting. I think that is why iPad still feels so limiting, because Apple still wants to have it touch friendly based. (Making keyboard and mouse optional, not a necessity). The pencil though might be able to replace the mouse when it matures in the future maybe? I think Apple is trying to come up with their own solution for the iPad paradigm. I understand it is slow and frustrating to many and me as well.
(yes it is as you said the iPad will remain prosumer for a long time until Apple figure it out in their own way, or maybe if thats not possible and the mouse and keyboard method is superior we will see)
I have a Lenovo Legion as well and have been using windows alongside the Mac for 5 years now. I still prefer MacOS UI language, it feels more refined and "round" (not sure of the word to describe). But I can see windows have improved a lot after windows 11. As for stability, I had a faulty 15" MBP that occasionally kernel panic and requires repairs throughout the years. While my M1 MBA and iPhone is almost perfect.
So I might need some more sampling to see who is more stable. But I also use the windows less for web browsing, and safari has been crashing sometimes. Not sure if I use Microsoft edge, if it will occasionally crash too?
What is your experience?
More restrictive access to the hardware, more restricted access to the file system, poorer multitasking capabilities, poorer abilities to automate tasks, more limited availability of professional software due to platform limitations (both restrictions on Apps distribution and Apps execution) … there is a long list of reasons why the iPad isn’t “as Pro as possible” vs a laptop due to deliberate decisions by Apple (they might have their reasons for those things and I am not questioning them here, just stating that obviously making the iPad Pro a laptop competitor is more of a marketing tool than an actual internal design policy).
Also your theory that it is mostly about App Store fees is your opinion, not a fact. No doubt it plays a role, but it is not necessarily the main driver for limiting desktop-class features on an iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard (and it is very much questioned by the fact that the EU will force Apps side loading on iPad OS and other jurisdictions are probably thinking of doing the same).
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It’s not a professional device. You cannot use your own otf fonts without tricks and en masse systemwide. Adobe CC does not work, which still is 80% of our daily work. No dev mode in safari. Logic Pro unable to use AU like native instruments. Not nearly enough ports. File management is a frggng nightmare compared to Forklift on the Mac. The simplest things take forever. Basically the iPad is a computer for people who don’t like computers. Thus it will never replace the MBP, which has become almost equal to the Studio.
But it would be nice and sensible that with the keyboard attached, MacOS usage becomes an option. The hardware is basically a downgraded MBA and it would be nice to be on the road and have a 13-inches-laptop at hand. Without having to resort to JumpDesktop etc.
On the other hand, touch and pencil open up different possibilities. Writing, painting, manipulating directly and intuitively on the screen with multiple touch points. Final Cut and Logic, Procreate and Good Notes give a glimpse of the amazing UX boost of a more natural interface using your hands to create. Imagine working with Slate and Ash Spectre without Keyboard or MIDI interface. Imagine rotoscope with a pencil.
The way forward is to bring the best of both worlds together in devices that are bridging the gaps between MBP and iPP. This is a great step forward (and as always not big enough), let’s hope the next iPadOS will be another step forward instead of watered-down iOS with 1-year-latency.
But it would be nice and sensible that with the keyboard attached, MacOS usage becomes an option. The hardware is basically a downgraded MBA and it would be nice to be on the road and have a 13-inches-laptop at hand. Without having to resort to JumpDesktop etc.
On the other hand, touch and pencil open up different possibilities. Writing, painting, manipulating directly and intuitively on the screen with multiple touch points. Final Cut and Logic, Procreate and Good Notes give a glimpse of the amazing UX boost of a more natural interface using your hands to create. Imagine working with Slate and Ash Spectre without Keyboard or MIDI interface. Imagine rotoscope with a pencil.
The way forward is to bring the best of both worlds together in devices that are bridging the gaps between MBP and iPP. This is a great step forward (and as always not big enough), let’s hope the next iPadOS will be another step forward instead of watered-down iOS with 1-year-latency.
Many more reasons than this but, 1) Macbook Airs have no cellular option 2) no more 11 or 12” size, 3) the utility of the pencil is quite useful (sometimes, but enough to be another reason) 4) ios games (not a big one for me but sometimes nice to relax … 5) camera for (also minor but useful enough the times I need it, like document photos)You guys who want iPad to be (more) like MacBook, why don’t you just use MacBook? I mean seriouslyYou guys want it to have keyboard, trackpad and MacOS… isn’t that like… MacBook Air? Perhaps what you really want is MacBook with touchscreen and pencil support. Like form factor of a MacBook Air but like 2in1? Those things seem to be terrible at least on Windows side of things. Maybe PC makers just don’t know how to do it properly but Apple would make good 2in1?
For my purposes, #1 above is really huge, having to get wifi passwords at cafes, libraries, airports and so many public places is a pain, and 50-80% of the time after all that hassle their wifi is horrible compared to my mediocre but “fine” $10/month cellular service. #3 is pretty useful for me too, marking up documents for work.
That being said, I do share others’ wishes for more MacOS file system features. The “Files” app was/is a welcome change and step, but the lack of TextEdit (I’ve tried many 3rd party ipad alternatives) remains quite inconvenient.
It will be interesting to watch how it plays out.
When it comes to iOS, Apple clearly tried to work around the EU requirements to make Apps installation outside the App Store much harder than on a Mac, PC, or Android phone, and to try to capture Apps revenue even outside the App Store. But the EU pretty much came back and said they’re not happy and will review the situation.
The way it works on iOS will likely evolve in the next couple of months and iPadOS will follow.
Also there will be pressure on Apple to bring this to other jurisdictions due to some customers demands and possibly other regulatory authorities. I’m not claiming to know how it will turn out and whether it will indeed come to other regions, but I wouldn’t rule it out and this might change the iOS/iPadOS apps ecosystem in the medium term.
if this one is actually pro...then the M2 was also pro and M1 was also pro..nothing changed but the specs as they always did
Same story again and again regarding iPadOS. Just try to get it: iPads are for other users than those that need or want MacOS. That includes artists (many kinds), teachers, pilots, architects, scientists etc that are not tied to a desk all the time and for which MacOS is spectacularly poorly designed.
This is just envy: iPad Pro is more powerful and with better screens than a MacBook Air and some MBPs and most of the iPadOS complainer cannot use the iPad Pro hardware due to too hard bonds to MacOS. Feels hard to be excluded?. "Toy OS" and "a big iPhone" is the iPad best argument for a very large crowd that you do not belong to. Stop crying, buy a Mac and do yourself a favour, stop fighting the windmills.
If it any consolation, the M1-M3 in Macs are supporting Finder and window management just fine - an M4 will not make these tasks much more efficient so you do not loose out on much. Furthermore you do not need an Ultra retinal display for file and window management.
This is just envy: iPad Pro is more powerful and with better screens than a MacBook Air and some MBPs and most of the iPadOS complainer cannot use the iPad Pro hardware due to too hard bonds to MacOS. Feels hard to be excluded?. "Toy OS" and "a big iPhone" is the iPad best argument for a very large crowd that you do not belong to. Stop crying, buy a Mac and do yourself a favour, stop fighting the windmills.
If it any consolation, the M1-M3 in Macs are supporting Finder and window management just fine - an M4 will not make these tasks much more efficient so you do not loose out on much. Furthermore you do not need an Ultra retinal display for file and window management.
Agree with you it isn’t a game changer, but I guess the OP’s point is that on the M1/M2 iPad Pro, some of those specs were not up to speed with other devices which Apple calls “Pro” (especially the display).