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Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
Currently have the iPhone 12 Pro Max, and can't wait to ditch this crappy iOS for the Pixel 6 Pro, and get back to stock Android.

It boggles my mind how popular the iPhone still is, it's not a good operating system, at all.

This iPhone itself truly is an excellent piece of hardware, with fantastic build quality, a beautiful screen, great battery life. Smooth fluid UI. But it's all ruined by iOS. Ugh.

But that's just my opinion.
Well I can tell you in my case iMessage, owning macs and having almost all family and friends on iOS makes it’s a hard move, plus all my photos in iCloud.

I just don’t see a big point in moving to something that basically does the same thing. Android and iOS are just a gateway to apps.

I have not used the pixel so I can’t compare but for me iOS is works great.

I do still get an itch to try Android every several months lol.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,392
23,894
Singapore
Excellent points. Our fellow poster is often stating that Apple owns the watch and tablet markets even though some of us repeatedly prove that that is far from being true. Oh well, people believe what they want to believe.

None of which contradicts what I have said.

Companies are technically shipping smartwatches and tablets, which Apple will be sure to point out when it comes to regulators assessing Apple’s competitive positioning. However, no company is realistically giving Apple a run for its money in smartwatches and tablets. This becomes especially apparent with Apple Watch. No company can match Apple’s design chops with Apple Watch and the accompanying bands.

Apple is in a learning journey entirely different league. The end result is that Apple ends up competing against itself. A lot of that is due to misplaced bets that competitors placed years ago.

My point is that we can’t ignore the role the Apple ecosystem has played with adding value to the iPhone via product like the Apple Watch, and that is one of the many reasons why iPhones will continue to sell, and why comparing phone for phone (be it with a competing android phone or last year’s iPhone) completely misses the point.
 
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Awesomesince86

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2016
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Well I can tell you in my case iMessage, owning macs and having almost all family and friends on iOS makes it’s a hard move, plus all my photos in iCloud.

I just don’t see a big point in moving to something that basically does the same thing. Android and iOS are just a gateway to apps.

I have not used the pixel so I can’t compare but for me iOS is works great.

I do still get an itch to try Android every several months lol.
And Apple knows this. So rather than innovate they choose to keep users locked in through features like iMessage that they would lose by jumping ship to Android. The wall around their garden is as much about keeping people from getting out as it is from keeping others from getting access. They could easily make services like iMessage universal to apple and Android, but they know that would just make it easier for people to leave. It's smart, but it's also a cop out.
 

Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
And Apple knows this. So rather than innovate they choose to keep users locked in through features like iMessage that they would lose by jumping ship to Android. The wall around their garden is as much about keeping people from getting out as it is from keeping others from getting access. They could easily make services like iMessage universal to apple and Android, but they know that would just make it easier for people to leave. It's smart, but it's also a cop out.
Of course from a business standpoint it’s wise for apple to keep iMessage exclusive. But Apple Music is on Android as well as Apple TV +, so they pick and choose.

When you say innovation what has Android brought these last several years? I would say folding screens?
 
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Heat_Fan89

macrumors 68030
Feb 23, 2016
2,933
3,826
When you say innovation what has Android brought these last several years? I would say folding screens?
I would say Google Assistant (have AI make calls to humans and have a natural conversation) and Google Call Screener, there’s nothing like either of them.

Question though, people keep bringing up iMessages. What’s so special about it where it locks users to iOS?
 

Tig Bitties

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2012
5,517
5,692
Well I can tell you in my case iMessage, owning macs and having almost all family and friends on iOS makes it’s a hard move, plus all my photos in iCloud.

I just don’t see a big point in moving to something that basically does the same thing. Android and iOS are just a gateway to apps.

I have not used the pixel so I can’t compare but for me iOS is works great.

I do still get an itch to try Android every several months lol.

iMessage, I just don't see or understand the big draw to that text app? My family and friends are probably 60% Android / 40% iPhone, but to me using iMessage seems no different than Telegram or WhatsApp or even the stock Google Messages, it's just another text app to me, nothing special whatsoever.

I had all my iPhone family and friends download and install Telegram, and it works great. High res pics and videos work perfectly.

And then the rest of us Android to Android users use RCS Google Messages and it's very good. I just never saw the big deal with iMessage? And there's no way one single app would keep me glued on a specific smartphone.

My 9 months with my iPhone 12 Pro Max has taught me one thing, it will be years before I ever want another iPhone again, iOS scared me away, and I am in no hurry to come back.
 
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Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
iMessage, I just don't see or understand the big draw to that text app? My family and friends are probably 60% Android / 40% iPhone, but to me using iMessage seems no different than Telegram or WhatsApp or even the stock Google Messages, it's just another text app to me, nothing special whatsoever.

I had all my iPhone family and friends download and install Telegram, and it works great. High res pics and videos work perfectly.

And then the rest of us Android to Android users use RCS Google Messages and it's very good. I just never saw the big deal with iMessage? And there's no way one single app would keep me glued on a specific smartphone.

My 9 months with my iPhone 12 Pro Max has taught me one thing, it will be years before I ever want another iPhone again, iOS scared me away, and I am in no hurry to come back.
I live in US so iMessage is big here. The main draw of iMessage is that it’s bullt in and it automatically switches to sms when texting non iPhone. That’s basically it.
 
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Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
I would say Google Assistant (have AI make calls to humans and have a natural conversation) and Google Call Screener, there’s nothing like either of them.

Question though, people keep bringing up iMessages. What’s so special about it where it locks users to iOS?
I think with iMessage it’s very dependent on where you live. I live in US so it’s very popular here. But when I go to Europe almost no one uses it.
 

Awesomesince86

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2016
2,482
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Of course from a business standpoint it’s wise for apple to keep iMessage exclusive. But Apple Music is on Android as well as Apple TV +, so they pick and choose.

When you say innovation what has Android brought these last several years? I would say folding screens?
Of course Apple music is on Android. It's a subscription service. It's in their best financial interest to have it as many places as possible.

As far as innovation on Android. I would say folding screens, higher refresh screens, super high zoom cameras, call screening, real time transcription, etc. What would you say the last thing innovative Apple has done? I would say FaceID.
 
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Tig Bitties

macrumors 603
Sep 6, 2012
5,517
5,692
I live in US so iMessage is big here. The main draw of iMessage is that it’s bullt in and it automatically switches to sms when texting non iPhone. That’s basically it.

I live in Chicago, and to me iMessage is just another text app. I nich prefer to be using a Pixel phone with stock Android and RCS Google Messages.
 
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Awesomesince86

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2016
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I live in US so iMessage is big here. The main draw of iMessage is that it’s bullt in and it automatically switches to sms when texting non iPhone. That’s basically it.
Which is exactly what RCS does for Android. I understood the draw of iMessage before RCS, but now they essentially are the same thing. It just depends on what group your inner circle uses I guess. But as far as features go, I don't think it has anything important that RCS doesn't.
 
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Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
Of course Apple music is on Android. It's a subscription service. It's in their best financial interest to have it as many places as possible.

As far as innovation on Android. I would say folding screens, higher refresh screens, super high zoom cameras, call screening, real time transcription, etc. What would you say the last thing innovative Apple has done? I would say FaceID.
Well higher refresh rate was on iPad for a while. But for apple recently Face ID and i would say swipe gestures after iPhone x.
Which is exactly what RCS does for Android. I understood the draw of iMessage before RCS, but now they essentially are the same thing. It just depends on what group your inner circle uses I guess. But as far as features go, I don't think it has anything important that RCS doesn't.
Is RCS only android?
 

SteveJUAE

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2015
4,513
4,753
Land of Smiles
I feel that more people really ought to be explaining Apple's success, not explain it away.

It's very tempting to do what many other critics and analysts do where they just treat Apple like any other company, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go "hey, Apple isn't doing what everyone else is doing, so I don't think whatever Apple is doing is going to work", then I frankly think you are all headed down the wrong path, and it shows in how Apple continues to defy conventional wisdom and go on to become even more successful year after year despite the naysayers.

I have long learned to do the opposite, by instead approaching these topics from Apple’s perspective. I like to begin with Apple, and then I look outwards at different industries, compared to the rest who tend to first cover an industry, then attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.

So to summarise, the best way of analysing what Apple does is to begin with Apple. Focus with Apple, then move outwards, and it will all make sense.

That's the sheer genius here. Apple doesn't need us to keep buying new iPhones year after year; they simply need us to keep using iPhones, as Apple has plenty of ways to continue earning from us, from accessories to services to apps.

And besides, my 8+ is still receiving iOS 15 (and gets most of the new features), and continues to work with other products like the Apple Watch and airtags. Is hanging on to the same phone for 4-5 years somehow supposed to be worse than constantly upgrading and creating more landfill?


Rather than say that iOS customers are apathetic to change (which really sounds more like sour grapes to me), it's probably more accurate to say that they simply find the changes introduced by Apple more meaningful compared to what is being offered by the competition. Apple looks at innovation as something that improves customers’ lives. Instead of announcing A LOT of new features and upgrades to either be first or different, Apple is more focused on announcing select features and upgrades that it thinks will lead to better experiences.

This year, the iPhone gets a better camera and battery life, the apple has a larger screen while retaining the same size, and Fitness+ increases the likelihood of people sticking with the service (and with Apple hardware). I don't think it's an unfair statement to say that the Apple Watch and iPad face very little in the way of legitimate competition. Perhaps instead of trying to deflect by labelling people who are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars for Apple Watch bands as sheep, it may instead be more meaningful to reflect on why Android OEMs don't seem to be having any luck making similar inroads on their end.


I think statements like this really show how much people really don't understand Apple, when you all continue to compare this year's iPhone to the previous year.

A flagship iPhone is meant to give the average owner years of premium experiences with little to no need to upgrade to a new model on an annual basis (hence the commitment to years of software updates). The iPhone 13 was never intended to cause the entire iPhone installed base (much less existing iPhone 12 owners) to run out and upgrade, and fixating on this only creates a blind spot. Apple's business model does not rely on year-over-year upgrades and changes that are so shocking and momentous that a billion iPhone users all run out and upgrade simultaneously. It's a fool's errand, and Apple wouldn't be able to handle that sort of demand either (even as we speak, the iPhone is already facing supply constraints).

Instead, knowing that the average iPhone user is expected to hold on to their phone for 2-3 years at least, the iPhone 13 is instead meant to appeal to people still holding on to iPhones from 2018 or earlier. Which to me makes perfect sense when we go back to my earlier statement about how Apple has moved on from selling iPhones to selling to people with iPhones.

In summary, the iPhone business is all about continuous refinement and advancement with new features aimed at improving the overall user experience in a manner that I (amongst a billion other users) find meaningful. I am happy being all-in in this regard. Sure, I spend more upfront, but my experience has been that this quickly pays for itself in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems overall.

I see myself continuing to stay a happy Apple user for a good many years to come. :D
Seriously what a romantic and in-depth knowledge you have of Apples inner workings :)
 
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Awesomesince86

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2016
2,482
3,302
Well higher refresh rate was on iPad for a while. But for apple recently Face ID and i would say swipe gestures after iPhone x.

Is RCS only android?
An inferior version was on the iPad, but yes Apple could have definitely brought it over to the iPhone. If I had to guess, the reason they didn't was because they were afraid of the battery impact and Samsung hadn't developed a good enough LPTO for them to use yet. But also because it was an ace in the hole for a year when they didn't have much else entice buyers so they could always add it that year.

Yes, RCS is only on Android right now. If they wanted, Apple and Google could easily agree to and implement a RCS version that worked crossplatform, but they won't do that. Apple knows how valuable iMessage is to keeping current customers. And frankly, the average smartphone user knows exactly what iMessage is but has no clue what RCS is, even though they essentially so the same thing. One thing Apple is great at is branding and marketing their features.
 
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Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,965
5,133
Texas
Yes, RCS is only on Android right now. If they wanted, Apple and Google could easily agree to and implement a RCS version that worked crossplatform, but they won't do that. Apple knows how valuable iMessage is to keeping current customers. And frankly, the average smartphone user knows exactly what iMessage is but has no clue what RCS is, even though they essentially so the same thing. One thing Apple is great at is branding and marketing their features.
I honestly have only one person I exchange message with that uses RCS.. and it's dope. I like it, but I definitely agree Apple will not implement RCS for the iPhone. It doesn't benefit them at all to do so. I recall someone mentioning that Apple will be forced to do so.

But that won't happen unless government steps in or something. Right now, RCS is a feature for Android.
 

Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
An inferior version was on the iPad, but yes Apple could have definitely brought it over to the iPhone. If I had to guess, the reason they didn't was because they were afraid of the battery impact and Samsung hadn't developed a good enough LPTO for them to use yet. But also because it was an ace in the hole for a year when they didn't have much else entice buyers so they could always add it that year.

Yes, RCS is only on Android right now. If they wanted, Apple and Google could easily agree to and implement a RCS version that worked crossplatform, but they won't do that. Apple knows how valuable iMessage is to keeping current customers. And frankly, the average smartphone user knows exactly what iMessage is but has no clue what RCS is, even though they essentially so the same thing. One thing Apple is great at is branding and marketing their features.
Yup apple can do whatever they want. It’s a good thing there is Android and it’s the majority market share.

I will say this, Android OEMs pushed Apple to make a bigger screens. I would have switched over had apple not released the 6 Plus.
 

Awesomesince86

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2016
2,482
3,302
I honestly have only one person I exchange message with that uses RCS.. and it's dope. I like it, but I definitely agree Apple will not implement RCS for the iPhone. It doesn't benefit them at all to do so. I recall someone mentioning that Apple will be forced to do so.

But that won't happen unless government steps in or something. Right now, RCS is a feature for Android.

Yeah no shot Apple would do it. Anything that makes it easier for users to move to Android they will avoid at all costs. And honestly, who can blame them.
 

drinkingtea

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 31, 2016
1,240
3,271
Just ordered a white Amazon renewed Pixel 4 XL. Since it’s renewed, I have like two months to return it. So if a the new 4 XLs drop in price when the 6’s come out, I’ll be returning the renewed one and getting a new instead. 🙏
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
When you say innovation what has Android brought these last several years? I would say folding screens?
The innovation was the foldable OLED panel, which Apple has been using as well since the iPhone X (Apple folded the edge of the OLED screen to achieve the edge to edge look. Compare to Android at that time that had big chins).
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Just ordered a white Amazon renewed Pixel 4 XL. Since it’s renewed, I have like two months to return it. So if a the new 4 XLs drop in price when the 6’s come out, I’ll be returning the renewed one and getting a new instead. ?
The Pixel 4XL will only get updates for another year, until October 2022. Just FYI. It better be cheap.
 
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Heat_Fan89

macrumors 68030
Feb 23, 2016
2,933
3,826
Regarding Google Messages vs iMessages, I have a question for those who have an iPhone. If you have more than one iPhone, do your messages appear on either phone? That's one thing I wish Google did. I have more than one Android phone and if I switch Pixel phones my messages stay on the phone that received them.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Regarding Google Messages vs iMessages, I have a question for those who have an iPhone. If you have more than one iPhone, do your messages appear on either phone? That's one thing I wish Google did. I have more than one Android phone and if I switch Pixel phones my messages stay on the phone that received them.
The difference is that iMessage is connected to your iCloud account, so any iDevices using the same iCloud account will receive the texts.

Google RCS is connected to the phone number. So a different phone cannot get the texts because it's not the same phone number. Think RCS as SMS 2.0.
 
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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Regarding Google Messages vs iMessages, I have a question for those who have an iPhone. If you have more than one iPhone, do your messages appear on either phone? That's one thing I wish Google did. I have more than one Android phone and if I switch Pixel phones my messages stay on the phone that received them.
Yes, one of the bigger benefits for those of us immersed in the Apple ecosystem and using Apple Messages is the continuity across all devices. You have the option of easily syncing across any/all of your Apple hardware. I can also send standard text messages (SMS/MMS) from my iPad, Mac, etc. I even have an old iPhone waiting for trade in sitting in my office without a SIM that I can use for messages or even phone calls from my current Apple phone.
 

Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,570
4,049
Brooklyn, NY
Yes, one of the bigger benefits for those of us immersed in the Apple ecosystem and using Apple Messages is the continuity across all devices. You have the option of easily syncing across any/all of your Apple hardware. I can also send standard text messages (SMS/MMS) from my iPad, Mac, etc. I even have an old iPhone waiting for trade in sitting in my office without a SIM that I can use for messages or even phone calls from my current Apple phone.
I love that I can copy text from my iPhone and then paste it when I’m back on the Mac. It’s just a seamless experience.
 
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