The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[MarkusL]

From an Apple point of view, its not an issue of current gen tech. Its what will sell at volumes sufficient to support the product line with as little investment as possible. To the average buyer of a mini, USB 3 is current tech. An sd card slot and hdmi port is desirable. T-bolt 1 or 2 and SATA or PCIe is meaningless. The ease of opening one up and installing a larger ssd and second drive is never considered.

Unfortunately for many of us, it supports Apple's objectives, not necessarily ours.

A "larger" SSD? Try "any SSD at all" in the case of the i5 Mini. It doesn't take much of a geek to recognize that the spinner offered in the entry-level Mini is not current tech. It's perfectly possible to know enough about computers to care about what storage you are getting, but still feel uncomfortable about ripping it open and installing an SSD yourself.

I'm not asking for a Haswell Mini in a new form factor with radical changes to connectivity. That would seem unnecessary, it would make more sense to wait with any case redesign until Broadwell or Skylake. All I want is the same old Mini with a Haswell processor and acceptable BTO options. With or without firewire, I don't care.

And in case anyone feels a need to tell me how small percentage of Apple's revenues comes from the Mini, then may I ask you to please also tell me how many percent of Apple's R&D budget you think would be needed to do such a minor update to the Mini.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Yes, this is exactly the message I feel I'm getting from Apple. And it's part of the reason why I'm so hesitant to recommend the Mini to friends or relatives who take my advice on what desktop computer to buy. I don't want to trick my mom into switching from Windows to OSX just to be forced to switch back again in a few years when Apple no longer sells the form factor she wants.

This has made me hesitant to invest in a Mac Mini as a server, as well. I would really like to set up OS X Server to tie together all of my family's devices and I would prefer to do so with better hardware (specifically a better GPU), but I don't want to find out Apple has dropped OS X Server two months from now and I see little incentive for Apple to continue to develop its Server software if the Mini is discontinued.

 

[Micky Do]

Nonsense.

You presume too much.

Methinks it is you who presume too much.

As with many words spoken in jest, the esteemed Kentuckienne's nonsense would appear to have germinated from diverse grains of truth.

 

[talmy]

This has made me hesitant to invest in a Mac Mini as a server, as well. I would really like to set up OS X Server to tie together all of my family's devices and I would prefer to do so with better hardware (specifically a better GPU), but I don't want to find out Apple has dropped OS X Server two months from now and I see little incentive for Apple to continue to develop its Server software if the Mini is discontinued.

I've got several thoughts on your concerns.

• My 2009 Mac mini server performs fine and in fact loafs most of the time. Better hardware really isn't necessary except for the more modern interfaces (USB3, Thunderbolt) which aren't on my old model.
• The GPU is irrelevant for server use.
• They are developing Server for Yosemite, so it looks like no plans to drop either Server or the mini.
• Minis are known for long service life (they are the most reliable Mac) so even if you buy the 2012 model today there is no reason not to expect 5 or more years of servicable life. Even if they were to drop the mini and the Server app, there's nothing to prevent you from continuing to use the system for a long time.

The current base mini has 2x the CPU performance of the 2009 server, and the i7 model has nearly 2x that. The processor usage graph shows peaks of about 70% -- that means that if I used a new base mini it would peak at 35%. The memory graph shows less than 4GB of 8GB used (the remainder is used for caching). My server is used as a file server, streaming via Plex, a Parallels Windows VM running Quicken (yes, that figures in the 4GB used RAM), TimeMachine server, CrashPlan, and a bunch of additional services that have low resource usage like DNS, DHCP, VPN, Calendar and Contacts servers.

 

[cypriot]

What about apple dropping mini and opening osx for use in pc's. Everyone would be super happy

 

[Cape Dave]

Silly me. I was hoping to login this AM and see that a new mini had arrived.

Might be nice if Tim Cook would at least LET US KNOW what his plans are. Then we could begin to act accordingly and find another thread.

At this point, even I, Mr. Optimism himself, have to admit that it does not bode well for a new mini. Ever.

 

[Crosscreek]

Yes, this is exactly the message I feel I'm getting from Apple. And it's part of the reason why I'm so hesitant to recommend the Mini to friends or relatives who take my advice on what desktop computer to buy. I don't want to trick my mom into switching from Windows to OSX just to be forced to switch back again in a few years when Apple no longer sells the form factor she wants.

I would be uncomfortable recommending a 2012 Mini at full price to anyone.

It's overpriced and I concerned with Yosemite utilizing the power of more recent Haswell machines and soon to be Broadwell.

I've been Beta testing Yosemite on my 2012 I5 Mini and It's not going well. I know it's still Beta but it sure does remind me of those old Windows lockups .

I notice on the forums that the newer Haswell machines are not having problems.

I think you have a argument for an Haswell Mini but the days of a Mini you can open up and change things in are drawing to a close. Apple does not support hobbyist any longer and really never did.

If we get a new form factor it may be BTO only.

 

[MarkusL]

I've got several thoughts on your concerns.

• My 2009 Mac mini server performs fine and in fact loafs most of the time. Better hardware really isn't necessary except for the more modern interfaces (USB3, Thunderbolt) which aren't on my old model.
• The GPU is irrelevant for server use.
• They are developing Server for Yosemite, so it looks like no plans to drop either Server or the mini.
• Minis are known for long service life (they are the most reliable Mac) so even if you buy the 2012 model today there is no reason not to expect 5 or more years of servicable life. Even if they were to drop the mini and the Server app, there's nothing to prevent you from continuing to use the system for a long time.

The current base mini has 2x the CPU performance of the 2009 server, and the i7 model has nearly 2x that. The processor usage graph shows peaks of about 70% -- that means that if I used a new base mini it would peak at 35%. The memory graph shows less than 4GB of 8GB used (the remainder is used for caching). My server is used as a file server, streaming via Plex, a Parallels Windows VM running Quicken (yes, that figures in the 4GB used RAM), TimeMachine server, CrashPlan, and a bunch of additional services that have low resource usage like DNS, DHCP, VPN, Calendar and Contacts servers.

Right, but let me guess: When you speak of the 2009 Mini, you don't mean a Mini you bought in February 2009, a.k.a. the 2007 Mini? Instead you mean an actual 2009 Mini bought during 2009 when it was still somewhat new? If a five year old Mini is doing fine today by some definition, that does not make a convincing estimate that a Mini bought today will do fine by the same definition in 2019. More likely that it may do fine approximately five years from its introduction in the end of 2012?

Also, not everyone uses their Minis exclusively as servers. And I'm not talking about gaming, in that case I would be barking up the wrong tree... but even more casual uses like streaming video and similar. A better GPU seems like a good way to squeeze an extra year or two out of an old Mini being used for those purposes. Now my 2007 Mini happens to be broken so I can't test it to see how poorly it performs on displaying 1080p youtube videos, but if my memory about this Mini serves me right the online content of today is well past what that machine can handle comfortably. Content will be a moving target, and an older machine will fall behind earlier.

 

[MarkusL]

I think you have a argument for an Haswell Mini but the days of a Mini you can open up and change things in are drawing to a close. Apple does not support hobbyist any longer and really never did.

If we get a new form factor it may be BTO only.

Well, maybe. But not only is the current Mini easy to open up for a RAM upgrade, they even advertise this fact on Apple's website with pictures and all! That's quite an improvement from the old polycarbonate Mini, with its "Step 1 - go to your kitchen drawer and get four knives to jam simultaneously into all edges of the case."

But the current Mini form factor is not a Cook-era case design, it may be more of an anachronism that is not indicative of where Apple is going. So I share your pessimism about the next form factor - which is why I so badly want one last update in the current form factor!

 

[Kentuckienne]

diverse grains of truth.

Is that's what's rattling around inside my 1997 Toshiba laptop? No wonder it runs so slowly. What I need is puree of truth.

 

[Cape Dave]

I completely agree. By dropping the mini for some imagined "inconvenience" or "lack of profit" they will be making a classic and tragic business mistake that really, with all the info out there, should not be made yet again.

It really cannot take all that many resources to keep a refreshed mini going forever. It is not like Apple cannot afford it. Maybe it is not their number one seller, but that is true of many items, as there can only be ONE number one seller.

But I like to think it is their BEST customers who like the mini. And by best I do not mean most $$$, although, as discussed in various posts, the "lead in" factor and enthusiast factor are critical in the mini buyers market. I mean good people and enthusiastic buyers when we buy.

And you know what Tim Cook? I am feeling disrespected. And that never bodes well. How about some sort of road map that is not so damn either all over the place or non-existant?

Do you not have the BALLS to tell us to our face you are discontinuing our favorite computer of all time? I thought not.

Give me a weekend and I'll be fully up and running on a nice NUC and Win 9 (hopefully soon) and look back on my Mac experience as a simple aberration. Maybe I'll give that Samsung S5 another look while I'm at it. At least they know a little bit about big screens.

 

[MarkusL]

As a public service, I shall now gaze into the crystal ball to describe the personality of a typical Mini buyer. The Mini purchaser desires a machine with many input ports, in order to be able to connect a vast array of devices such as Firewire things, Ethernet things, USB things, HDMI things, and Thunderbolt things. This means the purchaser has a significant stash of these various things lying around, even though they are outdated. Why should someone persist in using an old Firewire external drive, or in purchasing a machine with an HDD drive, when there are faster and more modern alternatives available?

The Mini purchaser is a technology hoarder. They probably have a box in the closet full of dongles, PCMCIA cards, SCSI cables, serial cables, parallel cables, phone cords, gender changers, PS/2 to serial adapters, PS/2 to USB adapters, serial to USB adapters, serial to parallel adapters, VGA to S-video adapters, S-Video to DVI adapters, 1200 dpi scanners, diskettes, DAT drives and tapes, floppy disks, PPC software, power cords, sound cards, old RAM, dead hard drives and extra bricks along with obsolete mice, touchpads, microphones, cameras, and printers which can not be used because either the driver or the connection is no longer supported.

The Mini purchaser cannot let go of all this hardware which was once so valuable, partly because of the investment it represents and partly because of the knowledge that it will be landfilled, or scrapped at best, and they hate the idea of waste. So they cling to their bag o' crap, and idolize the Mini because at least it has a bunch of ports which allow them to maintain the illusion that the old gear is "still useful". This means the Mini purchaser is in a state of complete and utter denial: denial that the once valuable peripherals are deceased, denial that they will be able to continue to use their current, outdated devices, and denial that Apple will actually release a new Mini some day.

Yes, I see all these things in my crystal ball .... oh wait ... that's my mirror. Never mind.

I actually threw out the last 300 of my floppy disks last year... but I did give them a good going over in a shredder first. Just to thwart anyone who is interested enough in my sensitive data to first break into a museum to steal a floppy drive and then do a recovery of any non-rotted data on my floppies.

But does anyone have a spare AC3 RF demodulator with coaxial digital output that I can have? That is the last piece of hardware I need for hooking up my laserdisc player to my Mini, I already have the coaxial digital to USB...

 

[talmy]

Right, but let me guess: When you speak of the 2009 Mini, you don't mean a Mini you bought in February 2009, a.k.a. the 2007 Mini? Instead you mean an actual 2009 Mini bought during 2009 when it was still somewhat new? If a five year old Mini is doing fine today by some definition, that does not make a convincing estimate that a Mini bought today will do fine by the same definition in 2019. More likely that it may do fine approximately five years from its introduction in the end of 2012?

Yes, it was new at the time. But the system load is no higher now than it was when the system was new (actually the load is lower because 64-bit code is more efficient). I'd have every reason to believe that the 2009 mini would be fine in 2019 but for it's obsolete interfaces. My previous home server was a Dell that I used for 8 years, and I only decommissioned it because I wanted 100% OS X.

Also, not everyone uses their Minis exclusively as servers. And I'm not talking about gaming, in that case I would be barking up the wrong tree... but even more casual uses like streaming video and similar.

I'm addressing only home server use in my post. Streaming video requires very little performance. Now if you are using it as part of a network for distributed video rendering (Compressor, for instance), then you would have a point. But that's not typical home use.

A better GPU seems like a good way to squeeze an extra year or two out of an old Mini being used for those purposes. Now my 2007 Mini happens to be broken so I can't test it to see how poorly it performs on displaying 1080p youtube videos, but if my memory about this Mini serves me right the online content of today is well past what that machine can handle comfortably. Content will be a moving target, and an older machine will fall behind earlier.

This is true, but you aren't talking about server use. For just displaying videos you might as well use an Apple TV, ROKU, a "Smart" TV, Chomecast, or similar low cost device. My old 2002 Dell would run Plex Server and stream to those just fine.

 

[Newfiebill]

I second this...

"So I share your pessimism about the next form factor - which is why I so badly want one last update in the current form factor![/QUOTE]

I totally agree, before we see the soldered RAM, non user upgradeable, MacMini, I would like a current generation refresh that has a decent i7 CPU and IRIS GPU so I can run a 2 x 4K Display set up. As soon as this becomes available I'm in for a maxed out Mini (which I will max out RAM/SSD "in house").

 

[FantieMu]

Last Quarter Mac Mini

If will release the MAC MINI on the last quarter 2014 or before the holidays I hope that the processor will not be Haswell but Broadwell. Wishful Thinking

 

[MarkusL]

Yes, it was new at the time. But the system load is no higher now than it was when the system was new (actually the load is lower because 64-bit code is more efficient). I'd have every reason to believe that the 2009 mini would be fine in 2019 but for it's obsolete interfaces. My previous home server was a Dell that I used for 8 years, and I only decommissioned it because I wanted 100% OS X.

Running fine in 2019 on an OS that got its last security patch many years earlier, I guess. Apple currently supports the last three versions of OS X, is that expected to increase greatly in the future?

I'm addressing only home server use in my post. Streaming video requires very little performance. Now if you are using it as part of a network for distributed video rendering (Compressor, for instance), then you would have a point. But that's not typical home use.

Well, streaming video from the Mini requires very little performance. But if I want the Mini to actually output video that it renders from a source on the web or on my NAS, then suddenly it does matter what GPU it has.

This is true, but you aren't talking about server use. For just displaying videos you might as well use an Apple TV, ROKU, a "Smart" TV, Chomecast, or similar low cost device. My old 2002 Dell would run Plex Server and stream to those just fine.

I guess for just watching videos I could do the things the computer should be able to do in the first place, if I buy some extra equipment that I don't really want. And then buy another Apple TV again if I want 4K some day... and figure out how to jailbreak it if I want to watch something that has not been blessed by Apple.

And I think you can scratch the smart TV off that list. For any video source that doesn't have an app for my smart TV and I need to use a browser, I'll take the convenience of a real browser on a real computer over the abominable UIs of every smart TV ever.

I will always want a general-purpose programmable computer that can output video and sound directly to my monitor and/or TV with nothing more than a cable inbetween.

 

[MacFather]

Deleted.

 

[VirtualRain]

The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

There's no doubt in my mind that Apple chose to skip Haswell with the Mac Mini since it's main benefit of better battery life is meaningless in the Mini. Had they intended to refresh the mini with Haswell CPUs they would have done that a year ago. Hence, with Intel's delay of Broadwell the Mac Mini (Mid 2014) becomes the (Late 2014) model. Very simple really.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Ivy Bridge... That platform is a monster and anyone who has it should be more than happy with it for years to come. And if you don't yet have one you can get a refurb for a hell of a good price. That Quad Core is in Mac Pro performance territory for a FRACTION of the price. Sure, it can't drive 4K displays, but the current 4K displays have 99 problems and the Mac Mini ain't one.

 

[talmy]

Running fine in 2019 on an OS that got its last security patch many years earlier, I guess. Apple currently supports the last three versions of OS X, is that expected to increase greatly in the future?

It all depends on what you are doing whether or not you need security patches. If just a file and streaming server (not client) as in the post I was originally replying to, there is no connection to the outside world so no opportunity to get attacked. I still run a Windows 2000 virtual machine for some software that doesn't run on later versions. Support ended in 2005. But it never accesses the Internet.

Well, streaming video from the Mini requires very little performance. But if I want the Mini to actually output video that it renders from a source on the web or on my NAS, then suddenly it does matter what GPU it has.

Agreed, but again, I'm only talking about a server. I was answering this post:

This has made me hesitant to invest in a Mac Mini as a server, as well. I would really like to set up OS X Server to tie together all of my family's devices and I would prefer to do so with better hardware (specifically a better GPU), but I don't want to find out Apple has dropped OS X Server two months from now and I see little incentive for Apple to continue to develop its Server software if the Mini is discontinued.

 

[scottsjack]

And you know what Tim Cook? I am feeling disrespected. And that never bodes well. How about some sort of road map that is not so damn either all over the place or non-existant?

Same here. The not-too-expensive-to-develop current-tech mini I want is nowhere to be found. The equally not-too-expensive-to-develop ACD that I want (current iMac screen, USB3, TB2) is equally absent.

At the same time Apple has spent billions buying that ghetto headphone company and most likely a ton of money developing yet another Mac OS that I do not want. I fear we are slowly parting our ways.

 

[Cape Dave]

Same here. The not-too-expensive-to-develop current-tech mini I want is nowhere to be found. The equally not-too-expensive-to-develop ACD that I want (current iMac screen, USB3, TB2) is equally absent.

At the same time Apple has spent billions buying that ghetto headphone company and most likely a ton of money developing yet another Mac OS that I do not want. I fear we are slowly parting our ways.

I must agree. I am making sure I am ready to part. I will somehow manage to make it till Win 9 comes out.

 

[cypriot]

If mini is not released around sept 9 i plan to buy a dell xps8700.

 

[DesertSurfer]

Same here. The not-too-expensive-to-develop current-tech mini I want is nowhere to be found. The equally not-too-expensive-to-develop ACD that I want (current iMac screen, USB3, TB2) is equally absent.

At the same time Apple has spent billions buying that ghetto headphone company and most likely a ton of money developing yet another Mac OS that I do not want. I fear we are slowly parting our ways.

Why "ghetto" headphones?

 

[Vanilla Face]

Running fine in 2019 on an OS that got its last security patch many years earlier, I guess. Apple currently supports the last three versions of OS X, is that expected to increase greatly in the future?

Apple supports Lion on computers from as far back as 2006(macbook, Mac Pro) but doesn't support it on computers that were still being sold in 2009(iMac). It seems like it's really hit or miss, but a 2012 mini would likely still have OS support in 2019.

 

[cebseb]

If mini is not released around sept 9 i plan to buy a dell xps8700.

Great choice! I bought one for my nephew and I was surprised at how powerful it was for the price. If you dig around the refurb dell site, a high end model can be had for as little at $400.