The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Cape Dave]

Hmm. From what I can see, a Fusion drive is actually optimal for the type of user Apple normally courts. It provides a speedy SSD, an inexpensive HD, and software to automagically balance storage between the two so that non-technical folks just see a single drive. I'm sure Apple considers this a win-win-win situation.



This is also a situation Apple would like to avoid. They seem unhappy enough about even having a machine that doesn't have an integrated screen, let alone integrated peripherals.



I do have to admit, I am also dismayed at the relatively poor choices available in Apple hardware. Apple is certainly sliding back down into the position it held more than a decade ago, where all its products were significantly inferior to the hardware available in the Windows PC world. But in my opinion, this is a combination of (a) very poor high-end choices, and (b) lack of expandability in existing products. I see no reason why Apple should be prevented from selling weak, low-end machines (other than the fact that the lowest-end Mini is so weak that it is not future-proof and may quickly become unusable); they really just need to be encouraged to also provide some stronger high-end options.

Quote
Spinners are for EXTERNAL.
This is also a situation Apple would like to avoid. They seem unhappy enough about even having a machine that doesn't have an integrated screen, let alone integrated peripherals.

AGREE! LOL! And maybe Apple will only put a 4GB SSD in their next "fusion" drive so they can still market it as "SSD"? Fusion = Why bother? Keep it simple Apple.

 

[Micky Do]

Fusion is cheap-assed marketing ploy. Spinners are for EXTERNAL. They are slow, hot and contribute to an overall crappy computing experience when inside the computer. Especially with 4GB Ram. That is a real horror show.

A somewhat narrow reflection of your desires or needs, without regard to others.

Computing experience…. What pompous sounding marketing tosh.

I use a Mac Mini with a HDD and 5 GB RAM, which was within my budget and remains adequate for my humble needs.

The new Mac Mini will almost certainly come with HDD, Fusion and SSD options.

 

[Santabean2000]

A somewhat narrow reflection of your desires or needs, without regard to others.

Computing experience…. What pompous sounding marketing tosh.

I use a Mac Mini with a HDD and 5 GB RAM, which was within my budget and remains adequate for my humble needs.

The new Mac Mini will almost certainly come with HDD, Fusion and SSD options.

It's hard to understand your continued defence of the solitary HDD in the mini.

Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should come with some flash storage.
Fact: Apple's reluctance to make this happen in 2015 is simply embarrassing, pathetic even, and certainly detrimental to customer retention in the long term.
Fact: Apple's new anorexic 1Tb Fusion drives reek of further, unnecessary penny pinching.
Fact: Spreadsheet Tim is leading the company down a dark and slippery road, one which they need not take.

 

[Micky Do]

It's hard to understand your continued defence of the solitary HDD in the mini.

Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should come with some flash storage.
Fact: Apple's reluctance to make this happen in 2015 is simply embarrassing, pathetic even, and certainly detrimental to customer retention in the long term.
Fact: Apple's new anorexic 1Tb Fusion drives reek of further, unnecessary penny pinching.
Fact: Spreadsheet Tim is leading the company down a dark and slippery road, one which they need not take.

Opinions, not facts.

HDD may not offer the speed of SSD in transfering data, but it is still more cost effective for a large amount of storage. Not everyone prioritises data transfer speed. Processing performance is more a factor of CPU and RAM for many, if not most tasks.

The Mac Mini is not all about grunt. There are a range of options available for a range of budgets and purposes. Don't want HDD? Don't get it, but don't say it should not be available.

The HDD will almost certainly be around in desktop computers quite a few more years.

 

[jpietrzak8]

Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should come with some flash storage.

What? That's kind of like saying "Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should be painted green." If a user doesn't need flash storage, they shouldn't be forced to pay for it. (I certainly don't need flash storage myself.)

The true problem with Apple devices is not the question of whether they have HDs or SSDs, or how much RAM they have, or which CPUs they have. The true problem is that Apple no longer offers a wide range of choice. They've narrowed down to 2 or 3 models of each device, removed all the expansion options, and offer only a tiny handful of very expensive BTO options.

It is not a bad thing to be given the choice between HD, Fusion, or SSD! It is a bad thing to have one of these choices forced upon you.

 

[AirdanMR]

What? That's kind of like saying "Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should be painted green." If a user doesn't need flash storage, they shouldn't be forced to pay for it. (I certainly don't need flash storage myself.)

The true problem with Apple devices is not the question of whether they have HDs or SSDs, or how much RAM they have, or which CPUs they have. The true problem is that Apple no longer offers a wide range of choice. They've narrowed down to 2 or 3 models of each device, removed all the expansion options, and offer only a tiny handful of very expensive BTO options.

It is not a bad thing to be given the choice between HD, Fusion, or SSD! It is a bad thing to have one of these choices forced upon you.

Paint doesn't give you better performance, so I think that's not a real good example...

It's more like saying "Fact: any new car bought in 2016 should have power steering".

 

[jpietrzak8]

Paint doesn't give you better performance, so I think that's not a real good example...

Green is my favorite color. Therefore, it makes sense to me.

 

[talmy]

What? That's kind of like saying "Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should be painted green." If a user doesn't need flash storage, they shouldn't be forced to pay for it. (I certainly don't need flash storage myself.)

I strongly agree with this. I have systems with Fusion, HDD, or SSD drives and each is appropriate for the purpose. My server has 13TB of HDD and I'd be broke if I had to buy them as SSDs!

The true problem with Apple devices is not the question of whether they have HDs or SSDs, or how much RAM they have, or which CPUs they have. The true problem is that Apple no longer offers a wide range of choice. They've narrowed down to 2 or 3 models of each device, removed all the expansion options, and offer only a tiny handful of very expensive BTO options.

Here I must disagree. Last time Apple had a wide range of choice was in the 1990's, pre-Job, and nearing bankruptcy. Steve Jobs intentionally narrowed the choices. There was to be a pro line and a consumer line with one desktop and one laptop in each, and each model had a Good-Better-Best choice. The thought was that offering too many choices would just confuse the customers. From the business side, reducing the number of SKUs is always beneficial. I'm actually surprised that they have BTO options at all.

 

[jpietrzak8]

Hmm. Not sure what to make of this:

I have systems with Fusion, HDD, or SSD drives and each is appropriate for the purpose. My server has 13TB of HDD and I'd be broke if I had to buy them as SSDs!

and...

Last time Apple had a wide range of choice was in the 1990's, pre-Job, and nearing bankruptcy.
...
From the business side, reducing the number of SKUs is always beneficial. I'm actually surprised that they have BTO options at all.

So, if I'm reading this right, you are saying both that Apple is smart to limit the number of choices available to the consumer; but also that choice is valuable to the consumer (or at least to you). So, can I assume that you will not be purchasing Apple products in the future? (Unless by some stroke of luck they happen to choose the combination of features that perfectly matches your needs...)

 

[talmy]

So, if I'm reading this right, you are saying both that Apple is smart to limit the number of choices available to the consumer; but also that choice is valuable to the consumer (or at least to you). So, can I assume that you will not be purchasing Apple products in the future? (Unless by some stroke of luck they happen to choose the combination of features that perfectly matches your needs...)

Limiting choices saved the company, and it's something other companies have done as well. Thinking Dell, here, when I last bought a Dell computer there was a full range of processors, different graphics cards, displays,... etcetera. Now most models have few to no choices. That wasn't why I stopped buying Dell, I stopped to switch to Apple.

I'm not concerned about a perfect match for my needs. In the 80's and 90's I used to build my own computers. Now I've settled down. It isn't worth the time and effort to personalize a toaster.

 

[Cape Dave]

A somewhat narrow reflection of your desires or needs, without regard to others.

Computing experience…. What pompous sounding marketing tosh.

I use a Mac Mini with a HDD and 5 GB RAM, which was within my budget and remains adequate for my humble needs.

The new Mac Mini will almost certainly come with HDD, Fusion and SSD options.

Keep on buying computers with 4GB of Ram and 5400rpm spinners if that makes you happy. I will still be just as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

 

[DesertSurfer]

I was almost certain there would be a new mac mini today.

 

[Micky Do]

Keep on buying computers with 4GB of Ram and 5400rpm spinners if that makes you happy. I will still be just as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

No one is denying your right to have an opinion, but thankfully it is not shared by the folks at Apple. The new Mac Mini will almost certainly have a range of SSD, Fusion and HDD options to suit different needs or desires.

 

[jpietrzak8]

The new Mac Mini will almost certainly have a range of SSD, Fusion and HDD options to suit different needs or desires.

Ah, I certainly hope so. The current trend, though, of locking down RAM, making drives nearly inaccessible, and limiting CPU choices is disheartening...

 

[Santabean2000]

Opinions, not facts.

HDD may not offer the speed of SSD in transfering data, but it is still more cost effective for a large amount of storage. Not everyone prioritises data transfer speed. Processing performance is more a factor of CPU and RAM for many, if not most tasks.

The Mac Mini is not all about grunt. There are a range of options available for a range of budgets and purposes. Don't want HDD? Don't get it, but don't say it should not be available.

The HDD will almost certainly be around in desktop computers quite a few more years.

What? That's kind of like saying "Fact: Any new computer bought in 2016 should be painted green." If a user doesn't need flash storage, they shouldn't be forced to pay for it. (I certainly don't need flash storage myself.)

The true problem with Apple devices is not the question of whether they have HDs or SSDs, or how much RAM they have, or which CPUs they have. The true problem is that Apple no longer offers a wide range of choice. They've narrowed down to 2 or 3 models of each device, removed all the expansion options, and offer only a tiny handful of very expensive BTO options.

It is not a bad thing to be given the choice between HD, Fusion, or SSD! It is a bad thing to have one of these choices forced upon you.

I strongly agree with this. I have systems with Fusion, HDD, or SSD drives and each is appropriate for the purpose. My server has 13TB of HDD and I'd be broke if I had to buy them as SSDs!



Here I must disagree. Last time Apple had a wide range of choice was in the 1990's, pre-Job, and nearing bankruptcy. Steve Jobs intentionally narrowed the choices. There was to be a pro line and a consumer line with one desktop and one laptop in each, and each model had a Good-Better-Best choice. The thought was that offering too many choices would just confuse the customers. From the business side, reducing the number of SKUs is always beneficial. I'm actually surprised that they have BTO options at all.

No one is denying your right to have an opinion, but thankfully it is not shared by the folks at Apple. The new Mac Mini will almost certainly have a range of SSD, Fusion and HDD options to suit different needs or desires.

You all STILL don't get it! We're not talking about going from only HDDs to only Flash. We're talking Fusion and the minimum spec.

Nobody is suggesting you have to pay for the minimum flash storage that SHOULD be there. Apple can, and should absorb that cost. [Seriously, 24GB of flash - which is obviously what they've determined is the smallest amount possible for Fusion - must cost them next to nothing.]

Nobody is suggesting that HDDs go away completely (yet), because, yes, they are still most effective for large capacity.

The point is, a tiny, inexpensive bit of flash, (that Apple pays for, or at least doesn't bump the price of the computer out of whack with the ACTUAL cost of the flash), SHOULD be in the mini.

There is no excuse for not having it. Apple's margins are always high enough that this TINY cost would make no measurable difference to their bank balance, yet would help their customers in a positive way.

And yet some of you are still too drunk on the kool aid to call Apple out for the cheap arse bandits they're becoming.

 

[Micky Do]

You all STILL don't get it! We're not talking about going from only HDDs to only Flash. We're talking Fusion and the minimum spec.

Nobody is suggesting you have to pay for the minimum flash storage that SHOULD be there. Apple can, and should absorb that cost. [Seriously, 24GB of flash - which is obviously what they've determined is the smallest amount possible for Fusion - must cost them next to nothing.]

Nobody is suggesting that HDDs go away completely (yet), because, yes, they are still most effective for large capacity.

The point is, a tiny, inexpensive bit of flash, (that Apple pays for, or at least doesn't bump the price of the computer out of whack with the ACTUAL cost of the flash), SHOULD be in the mini.

There is no excuse for not having it. Apple's margins are always high enough that this TINY cost would make no measurable difference to their bank balance, yet would help their customers in a positive way.

And yet some of you are still too drunk on the kool aid to call Apple out for the cheap arse bandits they're becoming.

You STILL don't get it!

The new Mac Mini is almost certainly coming, with a range of options available to suit different budgets, needs and desires.

A few whinging geeks calling Apple out on an internet forum is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

 

[Crosscreek]

A few whinging geeks calling Apple out on an internet forum is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

I'm sure Apple has people following all social media sites that pertain to their products and if they don't they are fools.

This topic of HDDs has also been discussed not only in MacRumors in regards to desktops but also many tech sites that review their products.

It could make a difference and I would encourage discussion on it.

 

[jpietrzak8]

There is no excuse for not having it. Apple's margins are always high enough that this TINY cost would make no measurable difference to their bank balance, yet would help their customers in a positive way.

That's absolutely right! It's not like Apple is in this business to make money. Their efforts to maximize their profits are unconscionable. They really should be spending their time throwing wads of dollars at passersby on the street!

I do admit that I find some of Apple's current hardware choices too restrictive, and not optimal for at least some of the uses I would like to see. While I personally believe that they'll start to lose market share if they continue to constrain their hardware so severely, I'm not going to complain about their attempts to maximize their profits. If they are getting the profits they want from their current Mac lineup, then good for them.

 

[Santabean2000]

That's absolutely right! It's not like Apple is in this business to make money. Their efforts to maximize their profits are unconscionable. They really should be spending their time throwing wads of dollars at passersby on the street!

I do admit that I find some of Apple's current hardware choices too restrictive, and not optimal for at least some of the uses I would like to see. While I personally believe that they'll start to lose market share if they continue to constrain their hardware so severely, I'm not going to complain about their attempts to maximize their profits. If they are getting the profits they want from their current Mac lineup, then good for them.

We're talking about literally a few dollars on a small volume product. This would not affect their bottom line in any meaningful way.

 

[jpietrzak8]

We're talking about literally a few dollars on a small volume product. This would not affect their bottom line in any meaningful way.

Yeah, I can just imagine this discussion: "Hey, boss, I'm going to go ahead and make the Mac Mini design more expensive to produce. It's only a few dollars on a small volume product, it won't affect our bottom line in any meaningful way."

 

[Crosscreek]

We're talking about literally a few dollars on a small volume product. This would not affect their bottom line in any meaningful way.

I think you are right that a small flash with HDD would make for a very good entry point for any desktop. The expense of that small of flash is nothing and considering HDD are so cheap Apple would have no more expense than a 2012 HDD and maybe less.

This would stop the complaining of slow boot and app launch.

 

[Micky Do]

I'm sure Apple has people following all social media sites that pertain to their products and if they don't they are fools.

This topic of HDDs has also been discussed not only in MacRumors in regards to desktops but also many tech sites that review their products.

It could make a difference and I would encourage discussion on it.

Not discouraging discussion, but some here seem so enamoured with their own needs or desires for the advantages of SSD that their discussion is all one way. They are inclined to dis the options that adequately meets the more modest budget and needs of others.

HDD may be slower to boot and open apps, but it is more cost effective for those who require a large amount of storage, and don't want to the external drive route for whatever reason.

Apple will indeed be checking out social media, but I doubt that they will be influenced geeks ranting on about what they want, and suggesting that anything less will leave consumers complaining about a crap computing experience.

 

[Santabean2000]

Yeah, I can just imagine this discussion: "Hey, boss, I'm going to go ahead and make the Mac Mini design more expensive to produce. It's only a few dollars on a small volume product, it won't affect our bottom line in any meaningful way."

...but it will help with the customers' experience, raise the bar against competitors (who work with razor thin margins), lift the opinion of professional reviewers, and stop us looking like complete cheapskates.

Only you and Spreadsheet Tim fail to see the obvious.
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Not discouraging discussion, but some here seem so enamoured with their own needs or desires for the advantages of SSD that their discussion is all one way. They are inclined to dis the options that adequately meets the more modest budget and needs of others.

HDD may be slower to boot and open apps, but it is more cost effective for those who require a large amount of storage, and don't want to the external drive route for whatever reason.

Apple will indeed be checking out social media, but I doubt that they will be influenced geeks ranting on about what they want, and suggesting that anything less will leave consumers complaining about a crap computing experience.

Arrrgggghhh!!! You wouldn't lose the HDD!!! [youd just have a little flash tucked in there too, so you wouldn't have the slowness that you describe.]

It's like talking to a door at this point...

 

[jpietrzak8]

...but it will help with the customers' experience, raise the bar against competitors (who work with razor thin margins), lift the opinion of professional reviewers, and stop us looking like complete cheapskates.

Aha! This is more what I want to hear. If you want to influence a business, the correct argument is "This choice will increase your profits (via a larger market share, in this case)."

Any business that follows the model "Let's hand out extra toys for free because we've got a big bank account" really deserves to fail in the end.

Arrrgggghhh!!! You wouldn't lose the HDD!!! [youd just have a little flash tucked in there too, so you wouldn't have the slowness that you describe.]

I don't want to pay for the flash. Apple doesn't want to pay for the flash. Why should either of us be forced to pay for the flash?

 

[Crosscreek]

Apple will indeed be checking out social media, but I doubt that they will be influenced geeks ranting on about what they want, and suggesting that anything less will leave consumers complaining about a crap computing experience.

I've seen plenty of complaints from the iMac forum of people buying $2k computers with HDD in them compared to MacBook Pro people getting SDDs.

24GB SSD with 500GB or 1TB drives in this day and age should be the norm for Apple as a cutting edge manufacturer.
After all they were the first ones to do away with CD drives and in the case of the MacBook did away with USB3 in favor of USB Type C.