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True. But you're talking about a complete redesign to the mini; a completely new machine.

True. But, I think the root of the problem here is not the question of SSD vs HD, or the question of any of the specific components Apple chooses to insert into its products; the problem is ultimately that Apple has explicitly chosen not to allow users to make any changes to their machines. This has only gotten worse lately, with soldered RAM and drives held down with security screws.

If users had the ability to easily swap out and replace components (or add new ones), it wouldn't matter nearly as much what components initially come with each machine. We only argue so much about Apple's choice of SSD vs HD because Apple themselves have effectively taken that choice out of our hands.
 
True. But, I think the root of the problem here is not the question of SSD vs HD, or the question of any of the specific components Apple chooses to insert into its products; the problem is ultimately that Apple has explicitly chosen not to allow users to make any changes to their machines. This has only gotten worse lately, with soldered RAM and drives held down with security screws.

If users had the ability to easily swap out and replace components (or add new ones), it wouldn't matter nearly as much what components initially come with each machine. We only argue so much about Apple's choice of SSD vs HD because Apple themselves have effectively taken that choice out of our hands.

Exactly. Which is why their choice of 'base level experience' is so important. A lot of folks know nothing of computers/tech and will simply buy the cheapest. Once upon a time with Apple, that still meant you got a great experience (relative to other offerings from different companies at the time). This is no longer true. Or at least not to the same degree - and the longer we have standalone HDDs, 16GB iPhones etc etc, the worse it'll get.
 
Real word: start-up the machine, restart, open apps, read-write data that's 99% of a computer usage no matter what you do with it, that's why it's called "overall experience" because it applyies to everyone.

Real world: most of my computers are doing server duties (router, web server, e-mail server, file server). As such, I boot them up roughly on average about once every three months, and leave them running continuously. (And I don't really see why you need to turn off a desktop computer anyway, even if you're not using it as a server.) When I start up my main desktop computer, I also start up my e-mail app, my web browser, and my IDE. And I leave them running, for as long as the computer is running. (Although I have to admit that Chrome has been asking to be restarted more frequently; it seems that their update mechanism gets unhappy if you leave the app running for more than a couple of weeks at a time. :) )

So no, I can at least state from personal experience, it doesn't apply to everyone. And, in fact, I don't quite understand why more folks don't just leave their computers up and running, since they complain so much about bootup times...

Sure because the fact it's over your desktop means that the drive isn't spining right?

Again, personal experience: I've had several HDs die in laptops over the years. Lots of friends having this problem as well. SSDs are a huge win in this case.

Of desktop HDs, though, I can only remember two failures across the literally dozens of drives I've had over the last few decades. Magnetic HDs are definitely fragile wrt bumps and drops; but otherwise, they tend to be remarkably stable.

You should read more, here, the first I found, have fun http://betanews.com/2014/12/05/modern-ssds-can-last-a-lifetime/

Perfect! Yes, that article does describe the improvement in one specific feature of SSDs, the one that has had most of the press over the last few years: the fact that any given segment of flash memory can only go through a certain number of erase cycles before wearing out. The technology has indeed improved, both in the number of cycles that each segment can withstand, and in the technology of wear leveling, which avoids placing too much stress on a single memory segment. Indeed, if you're not specifically attempting to stress the device, an SSD should last just as long as a magnetic HD.

However, this is only talking about erase cycles. A Solid-State Drive, like all other "solid-state" equipment, is a collection of integrated circuit chips. Although ICs do not suffer from mechanical wear, they do have other forms of wear. Heat will eventually cause traces on the chip to deform, and even the very act of passing electricity through the chip will over time cause failures. Both metal and plastic slowly corrode away, and given the minute size of modern electronics, even background radiation can eventually cause serious errors.

In short, don't expect a solid-state device to last for 100 years. It won't.
 
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lol.....I still have some of those old floppy disks laying around in my work shop.

This guy I did engineering and design work had I think one of the first CAM computers for a old CNC mill ever made with 10" floppy drives. This was around 1998. I use to laugh my ass off at him because it was like 10 years old then.

So thanks for the laugh.

:D


HDD has been replaced. Just like floppy disks were replaced by Compact Discs. Like flash drives replaced CDs. etc... So you guys can accept it or keep living in the past while talking about how painting your laptop is going to make it better.
 
Opinions, not facts.

HDD may not offer the speed of SSD in transfering data, but it is still more cost effective for a large amount of storage.

No, it really isn't.

Apple could make all Minis come with fusion standard for *maybe* an extra $6.00 to $8.00 per unit. Instead they charge an extra $250 per unit for 24 GB flash.

Indefensible.
 
Apple could make all Minis come with fusion standard for *maybe* an extra $6.00 to $8.00 per unit. Instead they charge an extra $250 per unit for 24 GB flash.

Indefensible.

Annoying? Yes. But indefensible? Man, Apple's entire marketing strategy is based upon getting you in the door with a low-priced machine, and then up-selling you to a higher-priced product. There's no way they can get you to buy a more expensive model if it isn't demonstrably superior to the cheap model. So for Apple, it makes sense to limit the best components to the high-end models.

And you can see this with the BTO options: the exact same 1TB Fusion drive for the low-end mini is $250, for the mid-tier Mini is just $200, and comes built-in to the high-end Mini, even though it obviously costs Apple a fixed amount in each case. SSD options are only available for mid- and top-tier Minis, even though they could obviously install one in a bottom-tier Mini if they really wanted to.

Anyway, Apple does this on purpose. So long as it makes them money, they will continue to do so. They'll only stop doing it if they see a more profitable alternative. People need to stop buying Apple's products for Apple to see the need for change...
 
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Awesome. The last two pages at least offer nothing whatsoever on the next evolution of the Mac Mini, but simply a ridiculously long argument about SSD vs HDD. Adds sooooooooo much to the conversation about the arrival of a new Mac Mini.

I think most can agree that the 2012 represents a better ecosystem due to the fact that both RAM and drive could be changed by the user as well as the fact that it was available in quad-core, however the 2014 integrated GPU trumps the 2012, and that is the lone strike against the 2012 machine.

I think most can also agree that Apple overcharges for RAM upgrades and HDD->Fusion/SSD upgrades. But they ALWAYS have. Which is why many of us choose to do it after purchase. Yes it kinda sucks that Apple is forcing us in the case of almost all new machines to do it at purchase because of the soldered RAM and otherwise nearly inaccessibility of the components (lest you have the desire to crack open your Mini/Laptop/iMac.

I ordered a 2014 Mini last week to REPLACE my 2013 VESA mounted 27" iMac - a quad-core 3.2GHz machine with 24GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. It is a really nice machine and I am lamenting the decision, but I want to use a Dell Ultrawide as a dual purpose monitor for both my Mac setup and my work Dell laptop.

And the Mac Mini is the only reasonable option since the Mac Pro is both overkill, and not too affordable. It makes no sense to get a laptop for my desktop environment.

I was seriously concerned with the 2014 Mac Mini as it is due/overdue for an upgrade and I don't want to buy one so near a potential revision.

However, all that said, this remains true:

1. Apple never makes serious jumps in updates. They are usually incremental.

2. A new Mac Mini may offer 5-10% tops increase in CPU benchmarks.

3. The price won't change and the RAM and drive options won't be much cheaper.

4. Only the GPU will see a potential bump from the next generation architecture. But the current GPU is fine for most Mini users.

5. All of these changes represent a computer that is marginally better than the current Mini, another reason the updates are less frequent.

6. It doesn't make sense to make it much smaller or eliminate most of the ports for a dock-able USB-C type situation. The Mini has a good port array and the size doesn't need to be reduced.​

So while we can all bemoan having a headless iMac or some other mid-tower in between the Mac Pro and Mini with iMac type specs and no built in screen, Apple has no reason to give us one and I doubt ever will.

The Mini is a very decent screenless Mac. Regardless of how much more we may want from it. Yes, it isn't a Video Rendering beast, and equipping it with decent RAM and drive takes it out of the entry price it looks like it should have. But the next Mac Mini, isn't going to be a revelation, it's going to be base bump from what is out now.

And at first I was kind of mad about that, especially as I transition from my iMac. But I think really, it's ok.
 
Annoying? Yes. But indefensible? Man, Apple's entire marketing strategy is based upon getting you in the door with a low-priced machine, and then up-selling you to a higher-priced product. There's no way they can get you to buy a more expensive model if it isn't demonstrably superior to the cheap model. So for Apple, it makes sense to limit the best components to the high-end models.

And you can see this with the BTO options: the exact same 1TB Fusion drive for the low-end mini is $250, for the mid-tier Mini is just $200, and comes built-in to the high-end Mini, even though it obviously costs Apple a fixed amount in each case. SSD options are only available for mid- and top-tier Minis, even though they could obviously install one in a bottom-tier Mini if they really wanted to.

Anyway, Apple does this on purpose. So long as it makes them money, they will continue to do so. They'll only stop doing it if they see a more profitable alternative. People need to stop buying Apple's products for Apple to see the need for change...
Therein lies the truth. But the original story was about creating great user experiences, but now Spreadsheet Tim has Apple locked on the money. He's making lots of dollars but lacks the sense.

Yes, they always had to make money to continue to create, but it seems now they're creating just enough to make money... Not the same. And a real shame...:(
 
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I ordered a 2014 Mini last week to REPLACE my 2013 VESA mounted 27" iMac - a quad-core 3.2GHz machine with 24GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. It is a really nice machine and I am lamenting the decision, but I want to use a Dell Ultrawide as a dual purpose monitor for both my Mac setup and my work Dell laptop.


Just another example of Apple locking down their system and not allowing the iMac to be used as a target display forcing anyone that wants to use the iMac as a display for their laptop or headless PC SOL.

Just another strike against the iMac as an alternative replacement for the 2012 quad Mini.
 
Would be helpful if you could read. I'll try to make it as simple as possible for you to understand.

If you can afford to buy a mini for $499 then it should be no problem to pay $504. A 1% price jump should not be the difference between getting one or not.

If it is that bigger deal; you've had to save up for years to buy this one computer and it will take you six more months to get that extra $5, then, yes, it is probably unwise to be buying a $500 computer.

That's not being elitist, but rather just practical financial advice.

[And I should know - for a number of years the sum total of my possessions was a tennis racquet and a cheap stereo; my disposable income was in the vicinity of $5 a week. I am far from elitist.]

Would be helpful if you could be coherent.

The new Mac Mini most certainly will not be the machine of your fantasies.
 
Would be helpful if you could be coherent.

The new Mac Mini most certainly will not be the machine of your fantasies.
Micky Do. Micky don't. We don't care.

Apple needs to put some flash in every Mac. That's not a fantasy. It's 2016 already.

Enjoy your horse and cart though, eh...
 
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I present to you, The new Mac Mini™ Green :apple:
http://i.imgur.com/NZwYGOa.png
NZwYGOa.png
 
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Awesome. The last two pages at least offer nothing whatsoever on the next evolution of the Mac Mini, but simply a ridiculously long argument about SSD vs HDD. Adds sooooooooo much to the conversation about the arrival of a new Mac Mini.

However, all that said, this remains true:

1. Apple never makes serious jumps in updates. They are usually incremental.

2. A new Mac Mini may offer 5-10% tops increase in CPU benchmarks.

3. The price won't change and the RAM and drive options won't be much cheaper.

4. Only the GPU will see a potential bump from the next generation architecture. But the current GPU is fine for most Mini users.

5. All of these changes represent a computer that is marginally better than the current Mini, another reason the updates are less frequent.

6. It doesn't make sense to make it much smaller or eliminate most of the ports for a dock-able USB-C type situation. The Mini has a good port array and the size doesn't need to be reduced.​

Where it's at almost certainly.

Apple's hardware innovations tend to come with new products, which then evolve as tech develops. The Mac Mini was innovative when it arrived in 2005. The form has changed only once since then. With the exception of the quad core for a couple of generations, there has been nothing too radical in the updates.

It is in software that Apple is more innovative. OS X is the reason people buy a Mac, not the hardware, which is not much different from what is available elsewhere.

My 2005 Mac Mini original cost about 24,000 baht here, with extra being required to licence Office for Mac. It came with a 1.25 Khz processor, 256 kb of RAM, and a 20 GB HDD and 2 USB ports.

The 2009 Mini that I am using now cost about the same. It has a 2 Khz processor, a 1 GB of RAM (now 5 GB), a 120 GB HDD and 5 USB ports. Installing iWork cost another 5,000 baht.

Now the same money would get a mid range 2014 Mac Mini, with all the iWork apps ready to go at no extra cost.
 
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6. It doesn't make sense to make it much smaller or eliminate most of the ports for a dock-able USB-C type situation. The Mini has a good port array and the size doesn't need to be reduced.​

Except it makes a lot of sense for Apple. It allows them to cut costs, increase margins, and give customers even more of a reason to upgrade to an iMac or a Mac Pro. Maybe even take a page from the MacBook line, and offer both a basic mini with two USB-C ports*, and a "mini Pro" with an expanded port array. Frankly without a companion Apple display (and port hub) to upsell a customer to, it's hard to imagine Apple would offer much more than a speed bump, rather than a complete system -- so I'm with you otherwise on this next update.

*and a Lightning port if Apple drops the 3.5mm jack on the iPhone.
 
Reminds me of the Jackintosh (Atari ST).

You mean the default background of the GEM desktop, right? (All the Atari ST consoles that I can remember were a light shade of gray. I think I've still got a 1040ST and a Mega ST in the attic, I should probably go check. :) )

tosabout.png
 
OS X is the reason people buy a Mac, not the hardware,
The truth has been said.

Thanks for that.

The new Mac Mini and the new OS X are almost certainly coming.

Micky Do. Micky don't. We don't care.

Apple needs to put some flash in every Mac. That's not a fantasy. It's 2016 already.

Enjoy your horse and cart though, eh...

And no thanks for this one of several insults. This thread has generally been quite light hearted with a bit of good natured banter. There has been the odd exception though.
 
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You mean the default background of the GEM desktop, right? (All the Atari ST consoles that I can remember were a light shade of gray. I think I've still got a 1040ST and a Mega ST in the attic, I should probably go check. :) )

tosabout.png


Yes, I mean the green desktop... it's hideous.
 
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Why….? What is wrong with having SSD, Fusion, and HDD among the options?

The problem is that Apple's overall message about its products is that they give the best user experience money can buy, whether it be on a phone, a tablet, laptop, or desktop. But HDDs don't provide that in a world where many computers at similar prices contain SSDs. Additionally, Apple prides themselves on shelving old tech for new: USB adoption, optical drive, you name it. I'm not saying HDDs should be eliminated entirely, but the 24GB SSD portion of the Fusion Drive is a sucker punch, and many tech sites have noted as such. You can argue all you want that it's in Apple's best interest/best profit to do this, but I think they may be missing the bigger picture: poor computer performance will eventually catch up to them and affect sales. Given how big a pile of cash they are sitting on, I tend to think it would be in their best interest to provide incredibly good value for what the consumer pays for, just so that that consumer can go and tell their friends/family how great their computer is so that said family/friend in turn get interested in Apple computers too.
 
The problem is that Apple's overall message about its products is that they give the best user experience money can buy, whether it be on a phone, a tablet, laptop, or desktop. But HDDs don't provide that in a world where many computers at similar prices contain SSDs. Additionally, Apple prides themselves on shelving old tech for new: USB adoption, optical drive, you name it. I'm not saying HDDs should be eliminated entirely, but the 24GB SSD portion of the Fusion Drive is a sucker punch, and many tech sites have noted as such. You can argue all you want that it's in Apple's best interest/best profit to do this, but I think they may be missing the bigger picture: poor computer performance will eventually catch up to them and affect sales. Given how big a pile of cash they are sitting on, I tend to think it would be in their best interest to provide incredibly good value for what the consumer pays for, just so that that consumer can go and tell their friends/family how great their computer is so that said family/friend in turn get interested in Apple computers too.

Exactly. Thankfully, someone else gets it :)
 
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