The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[gusping]

Apple probably feels M2 Minis could undercut Mac Studio sales, so they hold them back a few more months. Or they are waiting for the M2 Pro chips to be available in large quantities for an M2/M2 Pro configuration for the next Mac Mini. That's my guess.

Hmm, maybe if someone was going to spec 24GB RAM, but there are sod all ports on the M1 mini and i suspect the M2 will be the same, not to mention limited display support. Studio is still great value, if you don’t mind risking the noise/coil whine issues.

If the 14/16in MBPs come out in March, and Apple does in fact want to release an M2 Pro mini, it may do so in April - June after the initial demand for the new MBPs has faded. That would be a bit tedious….

 

[CWallace]

So according to the rumors, no more new Mac models in 2022. And Apple is still selling their Mac Mini 2018 model (at full price) with an 8th gen Intel CPU, when 13th gen CPUs are available. Apple should at least have updated their Intel Mac Mini models properly back in 20/21. Still plenty of software issues for audio/DAW-work (as well as a lack of necessary RAM on the Mac Mini M1), so I have no rush getting into M1/M2 yet. Typical Apple greed.

Apple's goal is to leave Intel behind so they were not going to invest in new motherboards to support new Intel CPUs for the mini or the Mac Pro.

And even if they had, they would have raised the prices and people would be bitching about that, instead.

 

[CWallace]

Apple probably feels M2 Minis could undercut Mac Studio sales, so they hold them back a few more months. Or they are waiting for the M2 Pro chips to be available in large quantities for an M2/M2 Pro configuration for the next Mac Mini. That's my guess.

I can't see the M2 mini being a threat to the Mac Studio.

I am with Jason Snell - Apple did not release an M2 mini because they plan to offer more SoC options than just M2 when they do refresh the mini. And since it sounds like those SoC options are not yet ready (see no MacBook Pro refresh this year), Apple is holding back until they are.

 

[EugW]

Now that the M2 series Mac minis are coming in 2023, I wonder if they'll get two more years of macOS support than M1 Mac minis, or three years.

 

[gusping]

I can't see the M2 mini being a threat to the Mac Studio.

I am with Jason Snell - Apple did not release an M2 mini because they plan to offer more SoC options than just M2 when they do refresh the mini. And since it sounds like those SoC options are not yet ready (see no MacBook Pro refresh this year), Apple is holding back until they are.

Please be true! But I don’t see what Apple have to lose by releasing an M2 mini now and M2 Pro in March. Unless they worry people would buy the M2 mini now and miss out spending more on an M2 Pro mini? Certainly will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

 

[Neodym]

Apple was like that in the 1990s...and nearly went out of business. 'Those who not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.' "because … reasons" is the catch all for 'we have no real clue on how to explain this piece of stupid and so leave it to you.'

Well - unfortunately more often than not, in big companies managers have a different point of view, which is sometimes due to company policies or personal agenda or other - sometimes external - influences that can not be ignored. Not all of the “affected” companies are in imminent danger of going out of business.

I used the term ”because reasons“ loosely, as the multitude of possible reasons (some of which may even be quite valid) would have been too many to list them. Not all managers are right out of the Dilbert strips, but even the good ones sometimes are bound to forces beyond their control (often those are ultimately Shareholder-driven).

And this is not only about Apple, but also a lot of other companies Apple is depending upon to write software for their shiny hardware. Besides - in recent years there have been some reports that the bean counters play a way bigger role in the „new Apple“ than they did in the past. That may contribute to certain hardware decisions driven by cost-saving and profit maximization.

On the other hand, a bigger influence of the bean counters may have been helpful to avoid the near-bankruptcy of the 1990’s Apple, when engineers over-engineered products and individual groups focussed on „their“ products, while ignoring the big picture of the company as a whole and the relevant markets.

It is not so much an ideal world but a world that doesn't involve coming up with what amounts to BS handwaving for the actions of the real world equivalent of Dilbert's boss.

The ideas for the Dilbert strips originate from a multitude of real-life examples, unfortunately. One could moan and complain about that, but it’s a reality than can not be changed and should not be (completely) ignored. Apple ain’t an island and has to consider that with their decisions, even if the situation within Apple itself may be closer to the ideal.

And in the special case that led to this discussion there would be an easy fix imho: Apple should (again) allow users to easily upgrade Ram themselves, at least in bigger devices beyond commodities like iPhone and iPad. Then those who want or need to throw more Ram at a problem (read: an application) can do so, if and when needed and without having to separate from a kidney upfront “just in case”.

Technically really simple, as past Apple hardware gracefully demonstrates. But here the bean counter influences may (currently) be too big within Apple (a.k.a. “Apple greed”).

 

[Neodym]

I don’t see what Apple have to lose by releasing an M2 mini now and M2 Pro in March.

Could be as simple as existing chip restraints for M2. Mini is not the top dog when it comes to supply priorities.

Also, as Apple is notoriously secretive about their products, they would never tell now, if an M2 Pro mini would be in the cards for March, thus not allowing customers to take an informed purchase decision now.

Therefore customers buying a hypothetical M2 mini now could be (severely) disappointed, if a more powerful mini would be released less than half a year later, possibly invalidating their purchase decision.

 

[gusping]

Could be as simple as existing chip restraints for M2. Mini is not the top dog when it comes to supply priorities.

Also, as Apple is notoriously secretive about their products, they would never tell now, if an M2 Pro mini would be in the cards for March, thus not allowing customers to take an informed purchase decision now.

Therefore customers buying a hypothetical M2 mini now could be (severely) disappointed, if a more powerful mini would be released less than half a year later, possibly invalidating their purchase decision.

Possibly. I would have thought supply would be plentiful by now, but maybe the M2 Air is continuing to sell like mad.

My 2018 mini will continuing chugging along for now...

 

[CWallace]

Please be true! But I don’t see what Apple have to lose by releasing an M2 mini now and M2 Pro in March. Unless they worry people would buy the M2 mini now and miss out spending more on an M2 Pro mini? Certainly will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

1. They are holding back to not honk off people who buy something else when they really wanted a Mac mini with an M2 Pro.
2. They are holding back in the hopes that people who really wanted a Mac mini with an M2 Pro will buy something else in the interim.
3. Both of the above.

 

[Peter_M]

Apple's goal is to leave Intel behind so they were not going to invest in new motherboards to support new Intel CPUs for the mini or the Mac Pro.

And even if they had, they would have raised the prices and people would be bitching about that, instead.

You've already replied to me about this several times, and for the 3rd or 4th time - this is about understanding the needs of people who do serious work (especially DAW with a lot of plugins from smaller developers), that need time to go M1/native. Again, I don't expect a new Intel machine in late 2022 or early 2023, but the fact that Apple didn't update the Mac Mini with a newer Intel CPU since 2018 is just ridiculous.

(Edit: Removed unnecessary negative comment.)

 

[Neodym]

You've already replied to me about this several times, and for the 3rd or 4th time - this is about understanding the needs of people who do serious work (especially DAW with a lot of plugins from smaller developers),

Usually Apple has a good reputation of understanding its target audiences as a whole.

that need time to go M1/native.

How much time would then be needed from your point of view, if two years is not enough?

Again, I don't expect a new Intel machine in late 2022 or early 2023, but the fact that Apple didn't update the Mac Mini with a newer Intel CPU since 2018 is just ridiculous.

I would consider the word “ridiculous” as inappropriate in this context. The 2018 mini is still a pretty capable machine. Those professionals needing significantly more horsepower in the Intel world would probably opt for a MacPro rather than for a comparatively less powerful update of a device with limited capabilities to begin with.

Other professionals have already switched to an M1 Mac after two years.

I would expect Apple to have a pretty good idea of the remainder (i.e. professionals requiring an Intel CPU _and_ being unwilling or unable to invest in a MacPro _and_ be willing and able to invest in an updated Intel mini a.k.a. legacy technology). And that target group is seemingly insufficient to invest all the costs involved with an upgrade of an officially outdated product line.

Apple is a company, not a charity. Updating a device just for update‘s sake does not make sense from an economic point of view.

Maybe you are negatively affected by that (imho logical) business decision and in that case I’m sorry for you. But you won‘t change Apple by ranting repeatedly in a forum. Instead, you would have several options to deal with the situation - some even without the need to leave the Mac as a platform.

But the shills will keep on shilling I guess...

Running out of arguments?

 

[opeter]

Gurman: Apple Planning No New Mac Releases For Remainder of 2022

Apple is not planning to announce any new Macs in the remainder of this year, with all planned releases expected to take place in the first quarter...

www.macrumors.com

So no new Macs then this year..? 😐😔

Now that the M2 series Mac minis are coming in 2023, I wonder if they'll get two more years of macOS support than M1 Mac minis, or three years.

But that is a good thinking. M1 Mac mini is 2 years old now, so technically it should be supported at least until 2025 (Vintage status). But I think, it will be beyond that. Software support with the free macOS upgrades is from 5 to 6 years.

You can still install macOS Big Sur (2021) on a Mac mini 2014, if I am not mistaken. Ventura (2022) dropped support for Mm2014.

 

[EugW]

But that is a good thinking. M1 Mac mini is 2 years old now, so technically it should be supported at least until 2025 (Vintage status). But I think, it will be beyond that. Software support with the free macOS upgrades is from 5 to 6 years.

It likely won’t be declared vintage until 2028. However it may lose macOS support before that.

You can still install macOS Big Sur (2021) on a Mac mini 2014, if I am not mistaken. Ventura (2022) dropped support for Mm2014.

I’m running Monterey on my 2014 Mac mini. It is officially supported.

 

[Maximara]

And in the special case that led to this discussion there would be an easy fix imho: Apple should (again) allow users to easily upgrade Ram themselves, at least in bigger devices beyond commodities like iPhone and iPad. Then those who want or need to throw more Ram at a problem (read: an application) can do so, if and when needed and without having to separate from a kidney upfront “just in case”.

The problem is if these get bad (or slow) RAM these people would blame Apple not the guy they got the RAM from.

You've already replied to me about this several times, and for the 3rd or 4th time - this is about understanding the needs of people who do serious work (especially DAW with a lot of plugins from smaller developers), that need time to go M1/native. Again, I don't expect a new Intel machine in late 2022 or early 2023, but the fact that Apple didn't update the Mac Mini with a newer Intel CPU since 2018 is just ridiculous. But the shills will keep on shilling I guess...

Based on the fiasco the Skylake CPU was for Apple (buggy and late) in 2015-6, likely the only reason the 2018 Mini upgrade happened was Apple had already designed it and ordered the Intel CPUs.

By 2018 Apple knew they were going to M1 so the lack of an upgrade for what was (and still is) a entry level/transition mac that likely is only a small fraction Apple gets out of the Macbooks makes sense.

 

[Boyd01]

That's right, the 2014 Mini is officially supported in Monterey

macOS Monterey is compatible with these computers - Apple Support

You can install macOS Monterey on any of these Mac models.

support.apple.com

 

[pshufd]

That's right, the 2014 Mini is officially supported in Monterey

macOS Monterey is compatible with these computers - Apple Support

You can install macOS Monterey on any of these Mac models.

support.apple.com

I don't understand why the Late 2014 iMac 27 isn't supported given that the i7 option has a stronger CPU.

 

[Boyd01]

Perhaps it's because of the proliferation of iMacs? Looks like there were 5k Intel iMacs in 2014, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2020 but only 2014 and 2018 Mini's.

 

[EugW]

I don't understand why the Late 2014 iMac 27 isn't supported given that the i7 option has a stronger CPU.

The 2014 Mac mini was discontinued in 2018.
The 2014 iMac was discontinued in 2015.

BTW, even my 2010 27" iMac (Core i7-870) is faster than my 2014 Mac mini (Core i5-4278U), but my 2010 iMac is stuck on High Sierra. A very fast High Sierra, but High Sierra nonetheless. Mind you it was much harder upgrading the SSD in the iMac than it was in the Mac mini, and the drive in the iMac is much slower since it's limited to SATA II. I get <300 MB/s for the 2010 iMac, and around 800 MB/s for the 2014 Mac mini.

The 2014 Mac mini NVMe upgrade took literally just 10 minutes for the hardware install. Easiest upgrade ever.

 

[pshufd]

The 2014 Mac mini was discontinued in 2018.
The 2014 iMac was discontinued in 2015.

BTW, even my 2010 27" iMac (Core i7-870) is faster than my 2014 Mac mini (Core i5-4278U), but my 2010 iMac is stuck on High Sierra. A very fast High Sierra, but High Sierra nonetheless. Mind you it was much harder upgrading the SSD in the iMac than it was in the Mac mini, and the drive in the iMac is much slower since it's limited to SATA II. I get <300 MB/s for the 2010 iMac, and around 800 MB/s for the 2014 Mac mini.

The 2014 Mac mini NVMe upgrade took literally just 10 minutes for the hardware install. Easiest upgrade ever.

I have a 2010 i7 as well. My 2014 iMac has the i7, 32 GB of RAM, 4 GB video and Apple 500 GB SSD. It's still quite a nice machine and I'm typing on it right now. Running Big Sur.

 

[theluggage]

And in the special case that led to this discussion there would be an easy fix imho: Apple should (again) allow users to easily upgrade Ram themselves,
[...snip...]
Technically really simple, as past Apple hardware gracefully demonstrates.

Except Apple have moved to LPDDR RAM across the Mac range and making that user-upgradeable is not technically simple. You can't buy LPDDR RAM equivalent in plug-in SODIMM modules. LPDDR gains speed and low power consumption by being directly soldered to the motherboard with the shortest possible tracks connecting it to the CPU or - even better - being directly mounted on the CPU package as with Apple Silicon CPUs.

You won't find any PC laptops with user upgradeable LPDDR RAM for the same reason - although there are plenty that still use regular DDR DIMMS at the expense of speed and battery life.

With RAM, Apple's problem is that it's charging through the nose for BTO RAM upgrades and skimping on the base RAM specs to make an extra dime (yes, all PC makers gouge for BTO upgrades, but Apple are amongst the gouge-y-est, and their $200-per-8GB rate across the range - regardless of whether you're getting a DDR DIMM or a whole new M1 SoC - is completely arbitrary). An extra 8GB RAM - even LPDDR - isn't that expensive and 16GB ought to be the minimum for all but the cheapest MacBook Air. Apple get away with it because they can - but it does make them hard to love. I'd have bought a M1 Mini on day one at $700, but not at the $1100 they wanted for the minimum sensible (for anything other than 'personal productivity') 16GB/512GB configuration - and it's a double whammy for all those people who can't order direct from Apple or one of the few resellers who stock BTO configurations - plus you rarely see the BTO models on offer.

SSD is slightly different - Apple still lowball on the base spec and gouge for upgrades, but there's no real excuse for making it non-removeable: it's still running a lot slower than RAM and, even though the modules would be non-standard controller-less "flash only" ones, they're still basically communicating via PCIe, and the Mac Studio & 2019 Mac Pro both show that removable modules are perfectly feasible. The unique thing about SSD though is that Flash memory - unlike most other solid state electronics - wears out after a certain, finite, number of writes - and although it should still outlast an old school mechanical hard drive in typical use, there's always the possibility that a software fault could destroy it prematurely. It really should be socketed so it can be replaced, even if (as on the Studio) it's not user upgradeable.

 

[opeter]

I’m running Monterey on my 2014 Mac mini. It is officially supported.

Sorry, my mistake and thanks for correction. I wanted to write Monterey (macOS 12). 🤭

 

[sublunar]

I don't understand why the Late 2014 iMac 27 isn't supported given that the i7 option has a stronger CPU.

Perhaps it's because of the proliferation of iMacs? Looks like there were 5k Intel iMacs in 2014, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2020 but only 2014 and 2018 Mini's.

It's probably because they want someone who bought a Mac to get at least 5 years of OS updates for it from the year it got discontinued. The 2014 Mac mini is an outlier because Apple only stopped selling it in late 2018 when the space grey coffee lake minis came out.

The same Haswell CPUs are not supported when used in a 2013/2014 MacBook Pro 13" which was discontinued less than a year later.

I would probably see the next Mac OS cutting the 2014 mini loose because it's reached the magic 5 year boundary.

And if you look at the list above, iMac owners are going to see support cut sooner rather than later.

There's going to be a few owners of intel iMacs unhappy as the years go on because their machines were updated fairly regularly whereas people who bought the 2018 mini are still effectively under support because the clock hasn't started on their machine and won't till Apple officially discontinues it. Therefore anyone who got a 2018 mini in 2018 will probably see Mac OS revisions until at least 2027 in my opinion.

Of course, this doesn't always hold strictly true as someone's bound to bring up the 2012 MacBook Pro 13" (non retina) which lingered in some form until 2016 but support ended with Catalina which was superseded in late 2020. There anyone buying this in mid 2016 only got 4 official years of support.

Plus 2 years of security updates afterwards - in fact it has only just stopped getting the security updates if my calculations are correct.

So in fact people who thought they had bought a lemon of a Mac mini in 2014 have in fact been rewarded with longer than average official support from Apple - and the 2018 Mini has followed it is likely to get the same treatment.

The flip side of it is that Apple will be looking to get Intel out of the system as far as OS updates go so in my opinion we won't see any Intel Macs on sale past September/October 2023 just so the clock can get started on Apple sunsetting Intel support in the OS in 2028 at the earliest (although we should expect security updates till 2030 by current standards).

 

[EugW]

It's probably because they want someone who bought a Mac to get at least 5 years of OS updates for it from the year it got discontinued. The 2014 Mac mini is an outlier because Apple only stopped selling it in late 2018 when the space grey coffee lake minis came out.

The same Haswell CPUs are not supported when used in a 2013/2014 MacBook Pro 13" which was discontinued less than a year later.

I would probably see the next Mac OS cutting the 2014 mini loose because it's reached the magic 5 year boundary.

And if you look at the list above, iMac owners are going to see support cut sooner rather than later.

There's going to be a few owners of intel iMacs unhappy as the years go on because their machines were updated fairly regularly whereas people who bought the 2018 mini are still effectively under support because the clock hasn't started on their machine and won't till Apple officially discontinues it. Therefore anyone who got a 2018 mini in 2018 will probably see Mac OS revisions until at least 2027 in my opinion.

Of course, this doesn't always hold strictly true as someone's bound to bring up the 2012 MacBook Pro 13" (non retina) which lingered in some form until 2016 but support ended with Catalina which was superseded in late 2020. There anyone buying this in mid 2016 only got 4 official years of support.

Plus 2 years of security updates afterwards - in fact it has only just stopped getting the security updates if my calculations are correct.

So in fact people who thought they had bought a lemon of a Mac mini in 2014 have in fact been rewarded with longer than average official support from Apple - and the 2018 Mini has followed it is likely to get the same treatment.

The flip side of it is that Apple will be looking to get Intel out of the system as far as OS updates go so in my opinion we won't see any Intel Macs on sale past September/October 2023 just so the clock can get started on Apple sunsetting Intel support in the OS in 2028 at the earliest (although we should expect security updates till 2030 by current standards).

They already cut off the 2014 Mac mini. Ventura doesn’t support it.

It seems the support for “5 years after discontinuation” only truly applies to hardware, not software.

 

[sublunar]

They already cut off the 2014 Mac mini. Ventura doesn’t support it.

It seems the support for “5 years after discontinuation” only truly applies to hardware, not software.

Well, I did qualify it with the example of the 2012 MacBook Pro non retina, the 2014 Mini had a great innings. Makes you wonder a bit for the 2018 Mini if apple are looking to draw the line with the last Intel imac for example.

If the date for the big Intel switch off might be 2026 for example.

 

[EugW]

Well, I did qualify it with the example of the 2012 MacBook Pro non retina, the 2014 Mini had a great innings. Makes you wonder a bit for the 2018 Mini if apple are looking to draw the line with the last Intel imac for example.

If the date for the big Intel switch off might be 2026 for example.

I had been wondering about that myself. I bought a 2015 MacBook Pro and a 2017 MacBook Air last year.

I was fairly certain the MacBook Pro would not get macOS 13 (which we now know is Ventura) since it was discontinued in 2017, but I bought it anyway since it was such a nice machine and I got it for cheap. (It was described as being in excellent condition, and they seller wasn't lying. It turns out it had an absolutely perfect screen, and a new top case, keyboard, and OEM battery.)

I was also fairly certain that the 2017 MacBook Air would get macOS 13, since it wasn't discontinued until 2019 (just three years ago). However, it too has been excluded from Ventura.

Previously I was hoping they'd replace the "high end" 2018 Intel Mac mini in 2022, but I wasn't sure if they'd discontinue it at the same time or else keep it as an extra option (perhaps not on the main page) until 2023 for the Intel straggler diehards. (They did something similar with the G5 during the Intel transition.) However, now that we know there is no replacement coming in 2022, I suspect that the Intel Mac mini will get discontinued in 2023. I also think they will discontinue the Intel Mac Pro in 2023 as well, which means no more Intel Macs at all come 2023. But how long will they keep Intel macOS support? I suspect perhaps until 2026 as you suggest, but maybe just for the Mac Pro. They could kill macOS support for the Intel Mac mini as soon as 2025 I think. 2026 at the latest.