The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Boyd01]

They could kill macOS support for the Intel Mac mini as soon as 2025 I think. 2026 at the latest.

It doesn't seem logical to have a policy of providing hardware support for 5 years after discontinuation on a computer that cannot run a supported version of MacOS. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2018 Mini can't install the newest version of MacOS, but it should at least be able to run a supported version until 2028 (unless Apple makes a major policy change).

 

[EugW]

It doesn't seem logical to have a policy of providing hardware support for 5 years after discontinuation on a computer that cannot run a supported version of MacOS. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2018 Mini can't install the newest version of MacOS, but it should at least be able to run a supported version until 2028 (unless Apple makes a major policy change).

My MacBook Air 2017 was discontinued in 2019, yet cannot run Ventura. The MacBook Air 2017 will be *hardware* supported until at least 2024.

 

[theluggage]

It doesn't seem logical to have a policy of providing hardware support for 5 years after discontinuation on a computer that cannot run a supported version of MacOS.

A computer doesn't have to stop working just because the OS loses support. It may not be able to run the latest software or drive the latest hardware, and you might want to keep it behind a firewall if it doesn't have the latest security patches, but it can generally keep doing the job it was bought for.

A computer does stop working if the hardware fails.

Also, I think the 5 year rule is partly based on consumer regulation* in UK, EU and elsewhere where the manufacturer is responsible for any manufacturing fault (including not being 'reasonably durable') surfacing in that period. That's harder to argue for the OS, where Apple aren't really obliged to offer any software features, support any apps or even block any attacks that weren't around when you bought the computer.

* It's also based on "any company that valued their reputation would do this anyway"...

 

[Boyd01]

My MacBook Air 2017 was discontinued in 2019, yet cannot run Ventura. The MacBook Air 2017 will be *hardware* supported until at least 2024.

Right. But if it runs Monterey, you should still have a supported operating system until 2024. That is 5 years of software support after discontinuation. I don't see why we can't expect the same from the 2018 Mini if it is discontinued in 2023 - you could run a supported operating system until 2028..

[edit]Hmm, is that right? Not sure now.... Catalina was introduced in 2019 and discontinued in 2022. When do we think Monterey will be discontinued?

 

[EugW]

Right. But if it runs Monterey, you should still have a supported operating system until 2024. That is 5 years of software support after discontinuation. I don't see why we can't expect the same from the 2018 Mini if it is discontinued in 2023 - you could run a supported operating system until 2028.

Or maybe you think Apple will make a major policy change? It would certainly infuriate anybody who buys a new 2018 Mini in 2023 when they learn it will only be supported by Apple for two or three years.

If that's what you mean. 2026 would be the last macOS revision at the latest, 2028 would be the last security update at the latest.

 

[Boyd01]

If that's what you mean. 2026 would be the last macOS revision at the latest, 2028 would be the last security update at the latest.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But I'll admit, it's hard to know exactly how the Apple Silicon transition will play out.

 

[crowe-t]

How much longer will the Late 2014 Mac Mini be able to run a supported version of OS?

 

[opeter]

How much longer will the Late 2014 Mac Mini be able to run a supported version of OS?

macOS Monterey (version 12), that was released last year (in 2021) is the last one. Right now, the latest major update for this branch is 12.6.1 (21G217) and it was released on October 24, 2022.

This OS should get security updates for at least two additional years, so at least until 2024.
Every modern Apple OS is normally supported around 3 years after the initial gold release.

However, here is an interesting article:

Some Macs are getting fewer updates than they used to. Here’s why it’s a problem​

Some Macs are getting fewer updates than they used to. Here’s why it’s a problem

Dropping old Macs can be justified, but some are dying before they should be.

arstechnica.com

Here is a quote from that site:

• Macs that are sold for an abnormally long time—the 2014 Mac mini that was available until 2018, the 2013 Mac Pro that was available until 2019, or the 2015 MacBook Air that was available until 2019, to pick three examples that Ventura doesn't support—don't get software updates for longer just because Apple sold them for longer. This differs from the timeline Apple uses to provide hardware repair services, which is determined based on "when Apple last distributed the product for sale."

 

[EugW]

I was considering getting a used 2020 Intel MacBook Air for my kid, but it seems the 2020 M1 MacBook Airs will get much, much longer OS support, despite the fact they were released in the same year. I'm not so much concerned about performance here, since even the 2015 MacBook Pro is fine performance-wise for what my kids need, but OS support is important.

2020 Intel MacBook Air: Released 2020-03-18, discontinued 2020-11-10
2020 M1 MacBook Air: Released 2020-11-10, still being sold

Luckily the M1 MBA is finally starting to come down in price on the used market, now that it's quite some time past the release of the M2 MBA and M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro, and we'll be hitting the 2-year mark for the M1 too next week.

 

[crowe-t]

macOS Monterey (version 12), that was released last year (in 2021) is the last one. Right now, the latest major update for this branch is 12.6.1 (21G217) and it was released on October 24, 2022.

This OS should get security updates for at least two additional years, so at least until 2024.
Every modern Apple OS is normally supported around 3 years after the initial gold release.

However, here is an interesting article:

Some Macs are getting fewer updates than they used to. Here’s why it’s a problem​

Some Macs are getting fewer updates than they used to. Here’s why it’s a problem

Dropping old Macs can be justified, but some are dying before they should be.

arstechnica.com

Here is a quote from that site:

• Macs that are sold for an abnormally long time—the 2014 Mac mini that was available until 2018, the 2013 Mac Pro that was available until 2019, or the 2015 MacBook Air that was available until 2019, to pick three examples that Ventura doesn't support—don't get software updates for longer just because Apple sold them for longer. This differs from the timeline Apple uses to provide hardware repair services, which is determined based on "when Apple last distributed the product for sale."

I was going to buy a used 2014 Mac Mini to get me through when Apple releases the new M2 Mac Mini but it might not be worth the $300+ investment. I'm in need of a new Mini but don't want to buy an M1 Mini now when Apple will be releasing the new M2 Mini soon.

 

[CWallace]

It doesn't seem logical to have a policy of providing hardware support for 5 years after discontinuation on a computer that cannot run a supported version of MacOS.

I believe the decision to provide extended hardware support after a model's discontinuation is due in part to some countries have laws requiring such support periods. Apple would also want to have parts availability to handle warranty claims for people who purchased Apple Care coverage for new purchases shortly before the item went discontinued and would therefore be under warranty for close to 36 months.

 

[EugW]

I going to buy a used 2014 Mac Mini to get me through when Apple releases the new M2 Mac Mini but it might not be worth the $300+ investment. I'm in need of a new Mini but don't want to buy an M1 Mini now when Apple will be releasing the new M2 Mini soon.

I wouldn't buy one now, unless you get it dirt cheap. What would $300 get you BTW? I got my 8 GB + 1 TB for US$145 + shipping in 2021, and added a 500 GB SSD for about US$50 including adapter.

So, that was a $200 purchase + shipping in 2021, to last me what I thought was going to be a year, for a machine I thought might possibly get Ventura. I didn't get Ventura, but the "good" news is that it will have to last me 18 months assuming the M2 gets released in March/April, and this will also probably get passed down to the kids, so I got my value out of it.

I wouldn't pay $300+ for 6 months for a machine that we already know doesn't support Ventura. That said, you could probably sell a reasonably spec'd one for $150+ next year if you don't mind the hassle.

 

[CWallace]

I going to buy a used 2014 Mac Mini to get me through when Apple releases the new M2 Mac Mini but it might not be worth the $300+ investment. I'm in need of a new Mini but don't want to buy an M1 Mini now when Apple will be releasing the new M2 Mini soon.

If you are ready to move to Apple Silicon, I am not sure buying an old Intel model is the best move considering eBay has base model M1 Mac minis in the $300-400 range and they will destroy a 2014 Intel model across the board in terms of performance.

Looking at the Apple Refurb store, the only base model around is an 8c/8g with 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD for $749, but even that is a better value, IMO, then spending $300 on a machine with a usable life of a few months before spending $699+ for an M2 mini that in general is not going to be that much better than the M1 model.

 

[EugW]

If you are ready to move to Apple Silicon, I am not sure buying an old Intel model is the best move considering eBay has base model M1 Mac minis in the $300-400 range and they will destroy a 2014 Intel model across the board in terms of performance.

Hmmm... I haven't seen them at that price. It's been over $400 from what I've seen, unless you're really lucky with an auction. BuyItNow is usually $500+.

 

[crowe-t]

If I can get a 2014 Mac Mini dirt cheap(in the $100 range) where can I get Catalina OS? The link doesn't work on Apple's website.

 

[opeter]

@crowe-t

How to Download macOS Sequoia, Sonoma, Ventura, Monterey, Big Sur, Catalina & Mojave Full Installers

How to download macOS Monterey, Big Sur, Catalina, Mojave, High Sierra, Sierra, El Capitan, Yosemite, Mavericks, Mountain Lion & Lion 7 ways!

mrmacintosh.com

If the Mac App Store links doesn't work, you can try step 3.

Quote from the above mentioned website:

3. Download Ventura, Monterey, Big Sur, Catalina, or Mojave with softwareupdate –fetch-full-installer​

With the release macOS 11 Big Sur & 10.15 Catalina we got a much needed new option added to the softwareupdate binary. We can now download full installers!


To get more information you can just run the softwareupdate command from terminal.app and it will give you a quick overview of all the options.

softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer

– this command will download the newest version of Monterey.

softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version

– This sub option will allow you to download specific versions. An example of this would be 11.6.8. An example of this command is

softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 11.6.8

When the download is complete the macOS Installer app will be in /Applications

 

[Boyd01]

I wouldn't buy one now, unless you get it dirt cheap. What would $300 get you BTW?

Assuming they are talkiing about OWC, since they posted about it here.

I wouldn't buy a 2014 Mini today myself (I already have two). But if I wanted one, they are offering the top-spec 3ghz i7 version with 16gb RAM for $269. Considering that they are a reputable company and offer a 90 day warranty, that strikes me as a reasonable deal. But, like I said, I wouldn't want anything older than a 2018 today.

 

[EugW]

If I can get a 2014 Mac Mini dirt cheap(in the $100 range) where can I get Catalina OS? The link doesn't work on Apple's website.

The link works, if you have a machine that is compatible with Catalina.

How to download and install macOS - Apple Support (CA)

Download and install current or previous versions of the Mac operating system on compatible Mac computers.

support.apple.com

 

[MayaUser]

M2 mac mini will remain the base $699 but the 3nm M2 pro will be probably over $1000
So expect that in the spring

 

[Peter_M]

Usually Apple has a good reputation of understanding its target audiences as a whole.


How much time would then be needed from your point of view, if two years is not enough?


I would consider the word “ridiculous” as inappropriate in this context. The 2018 mini is still a pretty capable machine. Those professionals needing significantly more horsepower in the Intel world would probably opt for a MacPro rather than for a comparatively less powerful update of a device with limited capabilities to begin with.

Other professionals have already switched to an M1 Mac after two years.

I would expect Apple to have a pretty good idea of the remainder (i.e. professionals requiring an Intel CPU _and_ being unwilling or unable to invest in a MacPro _and_ be willing and able to invest in an updated Intel mini a.k.a. legacy technology). And that target group is seemingly insufficient to invest all the costs involved with an upgrade of an officially outdated product line.

Apple is a company, not a charity. Updating a device just for update‘s sake does not make sense from an economic point of view.

Maybe you are negatively affected by that (imho logical) business decision and in that case I’m sorry for you. But you won‘t change Apple by ranting repeatedly in a forum. Instead, you would have several options to deal with the situation - some even without the need to leave the Mac as a platform.


Running out of arguments?

You made a reasonable, if somewhat erroneous argument, until that last sentence.. 😝

Have you used the Mac Mini 2018? If so, you'll realize that the iGPU is extremely weak, to the point it interferes with low latency audio performance during DAW-work, if you use a large monitor (38" ultrawide, 4K etc.), with more graphically demanding plugins like Superior Drummer 3. A 10th gen Intel CPU upgrade would have made a huge difference, for longevity and usability for serious DAW work. But no, we're are stuck on an 8th gen CPU machine, still selling at full original price. Again, that is absolutely pure greed and laziness on Apple's part.

 

[CWallace]

IMO, if your workflow is slaved to the Intel architecture, you should have been working on migrating to Windows or Linux immediately after the WWDC 2020 keynote.

 

[CWallace]

The iGPU (in the 2018 Mac mini) is extremely weak, to the point it interferes with low latency audio performance during DAW-work, if you use a large monitor (38" ultrawide, 4K etc.), with more graphically demanding plugins like Superior Drummer 3. A 10th gen Intel CPU upgrade would have made a huge difference, for longevity and usability for serious DAW work. But no, we're are stuck on an 8th gen CPU machine, still selling at full original price. Again, that is absolutely pure greed and laziness on Apple's part.

Intel has not updated the iGPU in years so the 10th Generation i7-10700 has the same UHD 630 iGPU running at the same clock frequencies as the 8th Generation i7-8700B in the 2018 Mac mini.

So if iGPU performance is your bottleneck, Apple could have updated to the 10th Generation and you'd still be screwed due to Intel's greed and laziness.

 

[Peter_M]

IMO, if your workflow is slaved to the Intel architecture, you should have been working on migrating to Windows or Linux immediately after the WWDC 2020 keynote.

Sure, great point. Let's applaud Apple for selling an outdated and poorly designed product at a premium, so that users are struggling with unnecessary issues (remember Apple removing PC support for Logic back in the day?). But you're right about the UHD 630 part, I thought of the 11th gen. which got updated iGPUs.

Newer CPUs like 10700K/10900K still have better architecture with more cores and onboard cache, not to mention Apple could've alleviated the issue by including a small discreet GPU. God forbid Apple actually doing something that makes sense, instead of selling a poorly designed machine for 5-6 years with outdated hardware (too thin, too hot, weak iGPU etc.). Go on apple.com right now, and the 8th gen Intel Mac Mini is still available at full price. 'Nuff said.

For a trillion dollar company, surely they could do better. But lets excuse their lackadaisical attitude, and keep on loyally accepting every single thing they do. What about their butterfly keyboard, was that fine too? There's something called "form over function".

Don't get me wrong, Apple makes some wonderful products. However, around 2014-2020 was not the best period for Apple, in terms of design vs function.

 

[CWallace]

Sure, great point. Let's applaud Apple for selling outdated and poorly designed hardware at a premium, so users are forced to ditch Logic Audio which they've been using for many years.

Logic Pro 10.7 supports Apple Silicon, so there is a clear and direct migration path for those running earlier versions of Logic Pro X on Intel Mac hardware.

 

[crowe-t]

The link works, if you have a machine that is compatible with Catalina.

How to download and install macOS - Apple Support (CA)

Download and install current or previous versions of the Mac operating system on compatible Mac computers.

support.apple.com

View attachment 2106820

I can load Catalina on a Mini that's compatible with Catalina even if it has a newer OS?