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The Nintendo Switch Console Thread
- Thread starter gkarris
- Start date
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Bethesda MAY make NX games:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/08/09/bethesda-absolutely-looking-into-making-nintendo-nx-games
but yes, according to the comments, the developers said this about the Wii U.
I guess 3rd parties won't develop for Nintendo until there's a user base, but there won't be a user base until Nintendo's console gets these games (whereas developers will make games for Sony and MS before the console's even out).
Poor Nintendo, as time goes on, they're looking more like Sega did in the Dreamcast days...
The answer is of course to have many strong launch titles to get people to buy the system early, which is what Nintendo failed on completely with the Wii U.
Even with a strong launch lineup, it's still going to boil down to a matter of portability, device-specific compatibility and raw power. Concerning portability, the porting of games from x86, which represents both non-Nintendo console makers and PC gaming, to ARM is greatly variable depending on the graphics API upon which the app is built, the degree of custom library dependencies and what they are, etc. For device compatibility, you're talking about loads of additional man-hours optimising coding and assets for multiple resolutions plus whatever wonky 'hardware innovation' rubbish Nintendo foists this generation. And in terms of raw horsepower, even a reasonably overclocked Tegra X1-based custom SOC is going to fall short of the XBONE, itself the weakling of true eighth-gen consoles, to the tune of 15%.
Again, if the EG is to be believed, this console will be DOA outside of the likely 10 - 12 million hardware integration fetishists amongst Nintendo's install base. Speaking for myself, I have a Wii U and several N3DSes in the house (myself and the missus), and, much like pickles and pomegranate sorbet, I love them individually, but cringe at the idea of their being together.
Not really. I made a game for PS3 (1080p) and Vita once that shared the same assets. It was easy back then, I imagine Nintendo will integrate scaling into their dev software. I can't see there being much problem there. Resolution and scaling aren't problems any more, PC devs have been able to support a wide range of resolutions and displays for years so it's not some magic foreign tech. It'll be fine.
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I dunno, Nintendo already etched out a super strong handheld market for themselves so were able to make more mistakes. But I also think in the late 90's they started to distance themselves from PC and other consoles. I think that's why they were able to continue with the GC, Wii, GBA, DS, etc whilst Sega released a system too close to the dominating PS2. Had Nintendo also gone down that, dare I say, "mainstream" route things might be different now.
Was the initial development done with the cross-device porting planned? The reason I ask is that most people that are optimistic or supportive of the NX as described by Eurogamer are suggesting that there is at least a reasonable possibility of PS4/XBONE Gen 1 (non-4K) ports to the NX, of which I'm particularly dubious. From what I've read regarding the porting of PS3 to Vita porting, the in-game assets (static art, polygon data, textures, sounds) were consistently stated to be the primary limitation of porting to the reduced hardware. The largest card size for Vita games was, I believe, 4GB, of which 5 - 10% was allotted to privileged data like game saves, whereas the average game size on the PS3 was probably around 8 - 10GB. I can't imagine that a AAA-sized game with this high-resolution assets and uncompressed sound intended to take full advantage of the PS3 hardware would be easily portable, or that the situation would be very different when portion a PS4/XBONE title. Is it as difficult as creating the original game? Arguably not. But it's still a process that requires a team and management approval apparatus. After the general failure of the Vita, I'm dubious that most AAA developers will be willing to front that cost.
I'm curious to see how larger games are ported to it, if it all. It might be a case of large internal storage -all we know currently is cartridges (some form of SD card I imagine) will be an option.
Sony and Microsoft are already pushing for drive-less systems, I can imagine Nintendo going for it too.
Ports are ridiculously cheap compared to creating a new product so even if the NX has its own set of barriers, it's still easy money. A port may take 3-12 months for a much smaller team than the original. It might be seen as a cheap way of keeping a product in the spotlight, because being the first on a platform brings in its own marketing benefits (you can hand-off part of it to the console maker, heh). I guess I'm just saying it's either not a problem or they'll find ways around it. The effort is worth it.
As for variations in assets it's just something I wouldn't worry about. Porting, even between similar systems, isn't a case of clicking a button and making two SDKs, and I'd be curious to know what Nintendo's testing requirements would be for it. But like I say PC games ship with wildly varying fidelity outputs, devs wont be stuck on that.
(I kinda hope that we get a lot more pixel, retro styled games. Some of my most played games this gen have been Risk of Rain, Towerfall, Luftrausers. I would LOVE to play a new, pixel-art resolution Mario game, and Sonic!)
This to me is the heart of the issue, and it's where Nintendo has its worst problems. They could count on strong third-party support given the prior install base of the DS coming over to the 3DS, and even that much slower than they would have likes and the handheld itself was accounted a failure until three years into its lifespan, and the lack of competing systems beyond the Vita, which was never more than a novelty and a means of secondary console interactivity. Curiously, and I would argue probably disastrously, they're abandoning true portability (if the EG report is to be believed) as there's nothing portable about the device as reported, and they're adopting Sony's failed hybridism as a primary rather than secondary aim. And, again if EG is correct, the main cartridge size will be 32GB, which is more than enough for most PS3/360 era titles, but redlining on AAA PS4/XBONE titles, to say nothing about the increase in assets for 4K ready titles with next year's refreshes.
If you mean HD install, non-physical media, then the consoles are DOA. The gamers that actually have discretionary income, in their early thirties like myself, all grew up with with physical media, and a great many of us are very temperamental about not owning the things that we purchase. I have a hard time imagining Sony or Microsoft going to a solid state cartridge format either.
Again, I argue that that comes down to what the ultimate horsepower of the NX is. If they go with a semi-custom based on the Tegra X1, even with overclocking I very much doubt that it will have the power to run contemporary titles, and I'm dubious on whether another hardware gimmick device with lacklustre support from third-party devs is going to survive, let alone grown Nintendo's install base.
And that's fine, and something that applies to even me. But I still want the option of getting the big event games without having to shell out money for an additional console. I personally just can't justify dropping cash for another same-old 2D//3D Mario game, same-old Mario Kart, same-old Mario Party. Granted BotW is coming but I can play that, functionally, on the Wii U I already own, there are two Pokemon games that my wife and I can play on our 3DSes, Star Fox is dead after SFZ, and Metroid is likely dead since the only use of the IP since the triple-damned 'maternal instincts' entry has been Metroid football.
This is pretty close to my heart. The games I produce are digital-only, but as a customer I'm conflicted on how I want my games - some are best being kept on the system at all times (Smash Bros, Mario Kart etc) but others I want to keep around forever regardless of future-availability (Pokemon, Monster Hunter). I think us that want physical products will go the way of the dinosaurs eventually, but this era is really interesting. On one hand you've got the value of content; a higher price point and physical object gives the "mindshare" more heft, you feel you want to play it more, you feel better for owning a physical object. Part of the market is shifting towards providing the most disposable, cheapest product. I like that some Japanese devs are fighting against that (Nintendo, Square Enix), and that you can't get ultra-cheap games on Nintendo platforms.
I didn't want to compare it to the Vita because of, well, it's the Vita. But I think it was a glimpse into the future of Nintendo handhelds at least - just they'd put a bit more forethought into it. A system with cheap storage, cartridges, downloads, that's eventually where we're headed.
I think Apple are really good at showing how little sentiment really matters. We've always settled down every time they've done something that's riled us up - dropping floppy drives, optical media, the pro market, the introduction of the iPad, (potential) removal of the headphone port. Even though I grew up on physical carts once the only place to get the next Pokemon title is a download you can bet I'll be there.
You will get just that. One of the most powerful dedicated and totally portable consoles in the world.
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Nintendo also said the DS was not a GBA replacement. We all know how that turned out. If this is anything like the rumours, it will kill the 3DS and WiiU. Total replacement.
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That's not right from the start. Right from the start is NX launch day. The NX needs games on day 1, NX launch day. The WiiU launch day did not have that and it really hurt the WiiU sales. Nintendo do not want to repeat the same mistakes here. Day 1 NX launch day needs some serious games. BotW is a good start. There are other rumoured games too.
Launch window means nothing. Only the Launch day matters here. If you miss that date you will set the NX back so much.
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Nintendo need to keep making it's own hardware for the same reasons Apple do. Mostly virtical integration. If you design your own heardware and games with each other in mind, both end up being better products.
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Nintendo has the userbase. Millions of 3DS owners. The NX is jsut a better 3DS that is good enough to be hooked up to a TV. That's exactly where Nintendo need ot be going with this. Trying for a TV only console didn't work so well for Nintendo with the WiiU. Sure this was partly Nintendo's own fault. But in the long run, Nintendo has proven it can do mobile gaming well. The NX is jsut the next evolution in mobile gaming. The millions of 3DS gamers out there will love this. The 3rd party developers are totally aware of the potential sales millions of 3DS users all migrated to the NX can bring.
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We need to also remember that the majority of 3DS owners (and many WiiU owners too) do not care about the specs of their Nintendo console. They only care about playing the next fun game. Many iPad users are the same. Can the new console play/use the next best app/game released? That's all they care about. Both Apple and Nintendo even cater to this by not fully advertising all the specs of their mobile hardware. People like ifixit fill us in on what Apple and Nintendo do not tell us hardware wise.
I would go as far to say there is no sentiment at all for older Nintendo hardware for the majority of Nintendo customers. Sentiment for older games sure, there's tons of that. That's why the VC and HD/3D remakes sell well enough for Nintendo. We few who are wondering if the NX has this or that cpu/gpu are in the tiny minority.
I personally have zero sentiment for older Nintendo hardware. I only care if I can paly the old games. It's probably why the GC controller adapter really only worked for Smash Bros 4. The Smash Bros Melee fans wanted that and created enough noise for it to happen but everyone else simply didn't care as long as they could play the game. The one exception however would be the gamepad for off TV play. That is a gaming experience existing specifically because of the hardware. If the NX is as the rumours suggest it is, then the gamepad issue will not be a thing as the NX will be able to go the same thing with off TV play. Just like how the 3DS does off TV play (it's 100% off TV play). The NX will be off TV play with the option to have TV play.
I'll be honest. In my ideal scenario, Nintendo would get out of the hardware business and become a software company, releasing their games on Sony's and MS's platforms. Nintendo's direction in hardware over the past decade has been frustrating to me at best.
Stop with the hardware gimmicks, focus on what you do best: make awesome fun games! The first party Wii U titles would have sold so many more copies on other platforms.
I know, I know, not gonna happen...
So the first Super Mario game on iPhone is coming out. An interesting step, releasing their most valuable IP on someone else's hardware. Seems like they're starting to understand where the hardware and the money is.
Next they should take a look at the PS4 and XBox install base and calculate how much money they could make selling awesome Nintendo games to that audience.
Honestly, if either Sony or Microsoft could land that deal exclusively, the other one would be finished.
That's a bit silly, as they make a profit on hardware. Even if they don't sell many they still get a profit. Besides - phone stuff is platform neutral. Everyone has titles on it.
Mario, etc, on Playstation or Xbox won't happen.
They tried that with the Philips CD-I - we know where that went...
btw - old article I remember said that Nintendo likes to control the console hardware they develop for...
This "jump Mario" game seems to be just a money-maker with the hopes the kids (or adults) will go out and buy a Nintendo system (a Nintendo 2DS with used DS games would be a next logical step, or maybe even the NX).
The retro-console coming this holiday season also comes to mind, games on a phone puts it in people's mind (Nintendo ads in the games would help this along).
There's a huge difference in releasing your games for other consoles, and then outsourcing your game IP to other companies.
Basically Nintendo (mobile aside) is wanting to be completely virtally integrated, like Apple is. From hardware to software to even the product distribution. Well only in Japan now but I assume it'll come worldwise soon too.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...esnet_to_gain_control_of_product_distribution
You don't buy a Nintendo game, well on it's own a game is pointless without the hardware and everything else. You are buying into the Nintendo virtically integrated ecosystem. This has worked well for Apple and Nintendo is really pushing this very hard.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...esnet_to_gain_control_of_product_distribution
You don't buy a Nintendo game, well on it's own a game is pointless without the hardware and everything else. You are buying into the Nintendo virtically integrated ecosystem. This has worked well for Apple and Nintendo is really pushing this very hard.
Looks like the Nintendo NX may probably be delayed past March 2017:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...s-like-its-on-track-for-a-delay/#44880a623070
I remember in the past Microsoft and Nintendo releasing consoles around the same time in November 2001 (Gamecube and XBox)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...s-like-its-on-track-for-a-delay/#44880a623070
I remember in the past Microsoft and Nintendo releasing consoles around the same time in November 2001 (Gamecube and XBox)
This is just pure 100% speculation by forbes. It's a weak rumour at best. Forbes are assuming Nintendo will play the game exactly as the did for all past consoles. Nintendo has said they want to do things differently here.
We shall see but I do think the release date is still obn schedule.
The latest rumor from one of the credible leakers says it is on schedule, so I would also disregard that.
In addition, Nintendo has been very firm on the March release. I even seem to recall reading something in an interview, that they could have gone for the christmas sales, but decided not to, to give extended time to developers. And that's a good thing, if correct.
In addition, Nintendo has been very firm on the March release. I even seem to recall reading something in an interview, that they could have gone for the christmas sales, but decided not to, to give extended time to developers. And that's a good thing, if correct.
I tried writing a reply to this on my phone but gosh those things are terrible for writing more than a text message, especially iOS10 (seems a bit strong on changing correct spellings). Heh.
But yeah I completely agree. A few days ago whilst clothes shopping I noticed more game-themed shirts than usual and realised how smart it is to have others pay to do advertising for you. It's like that with these Nintendo (and Playstation) branded apps on iOS and Android. Those smaller titles have the same tone and design philosophies as their larger titles, and it's not 100% what the market want. The market wants Mario World on their phone. But Nintendo also have a system where that's available, where they make 100% of the sale. Mario Run, Pokemon Go, they're just adverts that we pay for. And it works! I love the Pokemon games but I'm bad at allocating time to play games these days. Since Go I've been walking more and when I'm done I'm left wanting to play the big games in the series. Nintendo knew this. Not long after Go was released Nintendo ran a Pokemon sale on the 3DS, and I had to double dip on some titles just to get them on download.
It's all pretty good. And as that article says you buy into the ecosystem. It begins to snowball you end up using that system even more.
(I've had an Android gaming tablet for over a year but only ever played emulators on it. Recently there was a game sale so I bought a few games, which snowballed into buying more, now I maybe spend an hour on it a night)
I'm happy with Nintendo treating mobile the way it is. It's a platform for short bursts, and is priced at and developed for with that in mind.
More Rumours.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/56jomc/leak_goodies_from_a_large_retail_partner/
Marketing
Marketing - I this is mostly decent. The "on the go" doesn't sit well with me. That doesn't say the NX is primarily portable. It only says to me that porable is a thing but it could be a minor thing. I really hope this marketing line is changed before launch. Past that it looks all ok. The price is also good. Around the price of the WiiU at launch. Considering Nintendo said they would not sell the NX at a loss this is good. A lot cheaper than the PS4 and XB1 at their launches. It has to be. This does mean around $350 (I hope) in Australia and that's not too bad.
Bundle - We don't know if this is hardware + game or just more hardware added in. Having this as hardware plus game makes sense but I can't see NoA charging $100 for the game in the bundle. NoA always give the US great game prices. So I think it's either additional hardware or more SSD space (like the WiiU). I just hope there is way more than 32GB. That's just not enough these days.
Packaging - I think the white and blue is just placeholder packaging. I don't think Nintendo would want to use the same blue and white of the WiiU game boxes for the NX box. A total shift so people can easily notice the difference would be the way to go. Also I do think that NX is just the project code name and the actual console name has not been released. Most of Nintendo's recent consoles have had different project code names.
Features and specs - For anything portable, carts is a must as optical media does not travel well. This makes sence in so many ways that I would be utterly shocked to see anything but carts on the NX. THink 3DS like carts, not N64/SNES like ones. I think 4K is a lie, just like most manufactures out there. It's really just UHD. I do think it might be able to stream UHD. Doesn't mean much as the games will play in 1080p. If the portable part is 900p that will be ok. 900p seems like a weird number to choose but that would be fine be me if the frame rate is constant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/56jomc/leak_goodies_from_a_large_retail_partner/
Marketing
- "Interact with your game on the go." phrase seen on a poster.
- Strong co-branding effort with a Mario launch title on many posters.
- Console is currently set to launch with least 4 titles on deck.
- Stores should be receiving demo units around February.
- Base price point seems to be sitting at $299.99
- The NX is currently set to have a bundle option.
- The contents of this bundle is currently unknown.
- Bundle price is currently sitting at $399.99
- The packaging for the NX will be slightly larger than the Wii U's packaging.
- The packaging is relatively clean and simple and is similar to the Wii U in terms of package design.
- The color scheme for the packaging is white and blue (compared to the Wii U's blue and black).
- The packaging still says "NX" however there is still no indication if this is a placeholder or the final name.
- The areas of the packaging that would usually depict the hardware were blurred and redacted by Nintendo in attempt to keep it hidden.
- Games will be on cartridges
- 4k streaming has been mentioned. - What this likely means is playback of content such as Netflix, etc. Not gameplay.
- 1080p and 60fps are being used by the marketing teams in relation to gameplay on to the console portion. I've heard unconfirmed rumblings of 900p for the infamous hybrid part of the device.
Marketing - I this is mostly decent. The "on the go" doesn't sit well with me. That doesn't say the NX is primarily portable. It only says to me that porable is a thing but it could be a minor thing. I really hope this marketing line is changed before launch. Past that it looks all ok. The price is also good. Around the price of the WiiU at launch. Considering Nintendo said they would not sell the NX at a loss this is good. A lot cheaper than the PS4 and XB1 at their launches. It has to be. This does mean around $350 (I hope) in Australia and that's not too bad.
Bundle - We don't know if this is hardware + game or just more hardware added in. Having this as hardware plus game makes sense but I can't see NoA charging $100 for the game in the bundle. NoA always give the US great game prices. So I think it's either additional hardware or more SSD space (like the WiiU). I just hope there is way more than 32GB. That's just not enough these days.
Packaging - I think the white and blue is just placeholder packaging. I don't think Nintendo would want to use the same blue and white of the WiiU game boxes for the NX box. A total shift so people can easily notice the difference would be the way to go. Also I do think that NX is just the project code name and the actual console name has not been released. Most of Nintendo's recent consoles have had different project code names.
Features and specs - For anything portable, carts is a must as optical media does not travel well. This makes sence in so many ways that I would be utterly shocked to see anything but carts on the NX. THink 3DS like carts, not N64/SNES like ones. I think 4K is a lie, just like most manufactures out there. It's really just UHD. I do think it might be able to stream UHD. Doesn't mean much as the games will play in 1080p. If the portable part is 900p that will be ok. 900p seems like a weird number to choose but that would be fine be me if the frame rate is constant.
4K *is* UHD. And 4K streaming is very technically difficult to implement, so I would expect it. For gaming, I am very satisfied if they can hit 1080p@60 for all games with PS4 level graphics, which should also be doable with current technology and a small enclosure.
Prepare for the WiiU2U!
Prepare for the WiiU2U!
I don't think we will be getting anything like PS4 graphics. We will be getting something closer in between PS3 & Wii U but able to run at 1080p.
If it is based on Nvidia Shield, we already have exhaustive analysisfrom Digital Foundry of its power and it isn't going to be anything like as good as PS4 or even XB1.
I am hoping they are going to go for Shield 2 tech, but knowing Nintendo like to scrape by technology wise on what they think will suffice, I expect it'll just be first gen shield power.
It means whilst it may be able to run 1080p content, I imagine we won't see much dramatic graphical improvement over Wii U. It's possible we may even see cut backs in graphical effects in games like Zelda albeit the game playing at higher res.
There is a reason that we haven't had a single bit of demo footage running on NX hardware when were talking about a device set to launch in 6 months time .....
I'd like to argue that this is just because the system hasn't been announced. Now, you can then argue as to why it hasn't been announced yet. Scrambling to get hardware done, scrambling to have as much software to announce as possible for release, Nintendo not wanting to give their opponents any clues (The official reason), or something totally different such.
Possibly.... But not even a few screenshot to hype us for what is in store with the NX Zelda etc ...
I honestly believe it's simply because it's not going to be the graphical leap a new gen console usually represents and the differences other than resolution could be light, if not actually downgraded from Wii U Zelda.
Nintendo never leaks stuff like that. They announce it, and then you get information.
But I agree with your reasoning, unfortunately. It is of course also right up their alley, to downplay graphical performance. I don't believe it will be downgraded though, compared to the WiiU, as technology improvements move too fast for that, and the WiiU in that aspect is 'old'. But I will be very disappointed personally if NX Zelda doesn't run at 1080p, compared to 720p on the WiiU.
Oh I think it will run at 1080p but either A) that will be the only difference
B) it will run at 1080p but scarafice a few visual effects in order to do so (so in some respects will represent a downgrade)
That's only based on the console ports that have already made it to Nvidia Shield. Outside of Doom 3, they all have had concessions made from their PS3 & Xbox 360 versions in order to get them running and most are missing the 30fps target let alone 60fps.
You could argue they are bad ports, but reality is the hardware whilst powerful in some respects is still a cut below and that's the biggest worry I have.
Now if they get Shield 2 hardware on there then yes I believe that gap between just below PS4 graphics will be possible indeed. But with Nvidia cancelling Shield 2 as a device themselves will its hardware still live on or will Nintendo stick to first gen Shield hardware, if they do everyone must temper their expectations around its performance gain even over the ageing wii U ...