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Can people live with just that again for another five years and poorer third-party support?

I suppose that depends on to whom you pose the question. I'm sure that most Nintendo fans, especially western Nintendo fans, would argue in the affirmative, that Nintendo has successfully carved out the alt spot in the dual console lineup though nothing could be further from the truth, both in install base and attachment rate. The fact is that the limited third party support, coupled with the propensity of gamers for buying multiple systems for exclusives means that most hardcore gamers, the ones that are willing to expend large of amounts of discretionary income on multiple systems, are those that are generally geared toward event triple-A event titles. Wii U's first-party catalog was strong in places and anemic in others, but even the brand positioning of its iconic titles just could not drive sales. Given that there seems every indication that IP regurgitation will continue this generation, I don't see anything that would change with the NS vs the Wii U.

The fact this might cost between $350-$400 (as much as a PS4 Pro and Xbox One S) and no compatibility with previous Nintendo consoles and possible limited storage unlike the PS4 and XBone are somethings to think about. Switch doesn't seem to offer any value as a multimedia player.

I don't see that it has much value period. it's a home console that will almost certainly be underpowered when it's release versus the mid-generation refreshes and woefully so in two years when the true ninth gen comes along, too bulky and inefficient to be a solid portable handheld and with a modular design that will encourage mechanical failure, theft and loss.
 
I don't see that it has much value period. it's a home console that will almost certainly be underpowered when it's release versus the mid-generation refreshes and woefully so in two years when the true ninth gen comes along, too bulky and inefficient to be a solid portable handheld and with a modular design that will encourage mechanical failure, theft and loss.

Nintendo is still trying to be innovative.

Unfortunately there's a cost involved with that.

If this thing will cost a bit more than an XBox One S and PS4 (probably they'll be $249 by the Spring) and a mere $100 less than a PS4 Pro and Scorpio (rumored at $399), it will only appeal to die-hard Nintendo fans.

I am wondering if they just should have released just the tablet and also a sort of "Microconsole" that you can play all the same games on ($199 for the tablet version and $149 for the microconsole) and let people choose if they want to play mobile or play just on their TV... have the tablet with the controllers on that be a second controller or screen...
 
I am wondering if they just should have released just the tablet and also a sort of "Microconsole" that you can play all the same games on ($199 for the tablet version and $149 for the microconsole) and let people choose if they want to play mobile or play just on their TV... have the tablet with the controllers on that be a second controller or screen...
The 'Microconsole' as you call it, is likely just a plastic thing with a charger and an HDMI exit port, so it will cost them next to nothing to produce. This is not another TV Console, they have the Wii U for that. This is a hybrid, with a focus on portable.
 
The 'Microconsole' as you call it, is likely just a plastic thing with a charger and an HDMI exit port, so it will cost them next to nothing to produce. This is not another TV Console, they have the Wii U for that. This is a hybrid, with a focus on portable.

A portable that's over twice the size of their current XL portable. Brilliant.
 
Sure it has a larger real estate compared to the XL. But i'll take the HD screen, PC/Current gen console ported games and the ability to play on my TV or outside my house any day.
 
Most people dont mind carrying their tablets around in bags, so why should they carrying this? The pockets of stylish pants dont have room for a regular 3DS anyway. :p

Because we're talking about the equivalent of carrying a fat 16:9 iPad mini. Even if you're not carrying them in your pocket, you've got a rigid structure being taken in and out of a bag with zero built-in protection; the 3DS, but virtue of its legacy clamshell designed, has a rugged outer shell and the folding design protects the delicate interface elements within. Switch does not. In the end, it's a simple tablet. I don't know anyone in their right mind that doesn't have cases for tablets. How will that affect the performance of the portable system? Will the cases have hard points for attaching the normal controllers? If so, will they have sufficient engineering tolerances to so that they work smoothly and don't get stuck, and will the controllers be engineered well enough that if I have to torque them to remove them that they won't break? Would such a case significantly reduce the sphere of reception should I want to use the controllers in detached mode? Will a case affect the heat discharge profile?

There are dozens of scenarios that I could devise for this device that just go to show that its a portable designed for a world that doesn't exist: where people never drop things and someone is fine only gaming for three hours of a 15-hour flight.
 
Not sure I'm getting it - but if I get another console it will definitely be the Switch. Off TV is so important for me - I would never really play much with a PS4 / XBone anyway. It'd be important that besides the usual Ninty games also the big multiplayer FPS (Cod / BF) and Fifa would be available - don't care about graphics that much but sometime it's nice to play those on a console.

Edit: to clarify, off-tv for usage at home.
 
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It all comes down to the games boys and girls!

Once new must have exclusives come out that I can't play on my Wii-U, than I'll probably pick one up assuming price is not too obscene. I doubt Zelda will be much different graphically on the Switch vs Wii-U on HDTV, so no sense buying just for that unless you need the portability (I don't).

Let's hope for some great first party AND third party games.
 
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I haven't owned a Nintendo console since gamecube. I never got a chance to play twilight princess or skyward sword and was put off by the reviews to which the majority still preferred OOT and MM (those two pretty much made my childhood in the video game world). I of course should have played them to see for myself, but I was put off by the wii U design with the bulky screen controller. I didn't care much for wind waker and the reboot of it on the wii u (again going back to the weird design of the wii u).

As for this, the sleek design and hopeful mario / zelda games at launch, I will most definitely be buying this on day one. I need to get back to my roots as I have been caught up in the first person shooter world that xbox one offers and honestly I am getting bored of it (plus getting destroyed by kids who have don't have a day job to keep them from ranking up way higher than me).

I am excited to get back to this type of gaming. I have been on my old dreamcast playing both sonic adventures and on my mac emulating all the old mario + zelda games. I hope it lives up the hype!
 
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Nintendo is still trying to be innovative.
The industry should be thanking Nintendo for this. Thankfully the industry is thanknig Nintendo. Apart from VR, no one apart from Nintendo has done anything innivative hardware wise in the console space and gotten it to sell even slightly well. Nintendo is pushing the industry foward. A basic controller and a televisino screen is wnat the NES was. The PS4 and XB1 is mostly the same. Almost nothing has changed there.

Nintendo is taking risks by being innovative and for that I applaud them.

someone is fine only gaming for three hours of a 15-hour flight.
That someone is me. Been there done that. Eating, sleeping, being annoyed at other rude passengers and the cabin staff don't care, all just hwat you have to deal with on a flight. There's not as much gaming time on long flights as you think. Also the 3 hour battery life is 100% rumour. We just don't know what the battery life of this thing will be.

Also for the record people carried their gabeboy advances and gameboy colours nude around with nothing protecting the screen and buttons. I did back in the day and they worked just fine. There will be Switch cases made, just like there is 3DS cases out there. Just have to wait for the official specs to be released so the case makers can get to work.
 
I'm not sure about this. Whilst their sales do portables are high in Korea or Chine etc, in the West I don't think they are as high, maybe for children but not for adults? I think adults will just see it as another piece of tech to carry around on top of everything else, and they won't leave their smartphone behind.

It looks nice, but it surely needs all sales from all markets and age groups to make Nintendo again? But they are smarter then me at running a games console company and it's brand does hold a lot of weight, it's just not for me, looks nice but I'll stick to Microsoft for a home console.
 
I'm not sure about this. Whilst their sales do portables are high in Korea or Chine etc, in the West I don't think they are as high, maybe for children but not for adults? I think adults will just see it as another piece of tech to carry around on top of everything else, and they won't leave their smartphone behind.

It looks nice, but it surely needs all sales from all markets and age groups to make Nintendo again? But they are smarter then me at running a games console company and it's brand does hold a lot of weight, it's just not for me, looks nice but I'll stick to Microsoft for a home console.

I love my New 3DS XL and don't mind carrying that around in my laptop bag.

I don't even put games on my iPad/iPhone anymore as I want to play with real buttons (hence the laptop and 3DS).

I can see myself with a Switch.

Everyone is different - Nintendo made the Switch to unify their console and mobile efforts with the 2DS/3DS being their small portable and people that want to play Nintendo games this way will buy it.

As you said yourself, you will stick to an XBox for a home console...
 
I love my New 3DS XL and don't mind carrying that around in my laptop bag.

I don't even put games on my iPad/iPhone anymore as I want to play with real buttons (hence the laptop and 3DS).

I can see myself with a Switch.

Everyone is different - Nintendo made the Switch to unify their console and mobile efforts with the 2DS/3DS being their small portable and people that want to play Nintendo games this way will buy it.

As you said yourself, you will stick to an XBox for a home console...

The issue is with the value proposition of the device. Let's assume that it gets terrific battery life (it won't) and a reasonable heat discharge profile (it may, depending on how it underclocks when not docked), you have another problem: the drought that has slowed Wii U sales to a crawl and will foster some transition to the Switch hasn't occurred with the 3DS platform. Both the handheld and its software continue to be strong sellers for their current maturity, and new and compelling software continues to be released. So, you're asking prospective and past buyers to buy new, more expensive hardware, for what will almost certainly be a limited portability experience with zero backward compatibility (even in the case eShop, as there is no dual screen gaming and almost certainly no 3D functionality) to support that adoption. Maybe that works for you but for someone like me, with nearly one hundred 3DS titles, I see no advantage to adopting an oversized portable console with a comparatively tiny software library.
 
So, you're asking prospective and past buyers to buy new, more expensive hardware, for what will almost certainly be a limited portability experience with zero backward compatibility (even in the case eShop, as there is no dual screen gaming and almost certainly no 3D functionality) to support that adoption. Maybe that works for you but for someone like me, with nearly one hundred 3DS titles, I see no advantage to adopting an oversized portable console with a comparatively tiny software library.

I think the Switch is for HARDCORE Nintendo fans that never bought a Wii U.

Nintendo's Family of Game Systems:

The Switch will be their console/tablet gaming and apps, $299(?)
New 3DS XL handheld, $199
New 3DS handheld, $149
2DS handheld $79

I don't see the DS platform going anywhere in the near future...

The Switch is needed so that Nintendo will finally get third party support again.

And that's all...
 
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I think the Switch is for HARDCORE Nintendo fans that never bought a Wii U.

So, let's see if I've got this straight: you're counting on a part of the market which are hardcore Nintendo fans, that completely sat out the last generation, but is going to buy in on this generation, for hardware that will cost more money and support that is up in the air and no backwards compatibility. That's a unicorn segment if I've ever heard one.

Nintendo's Family of Game Systems:

The Switch will be their console/tablet gaming and apps, $299(?)
New 3DS XL handheld, $199
New 3DS handheld, $149
2DS handheld $79

I don't see the DS platform going anywhere in the near future...

You don't understand; it doesn't have to go anywhere in the future. It just has to stay relevant for the first year, and the Switch will be DOA. The first year is by far the most important adoption period for hardware, and during that year the Switch, in the portable space, will be competing with a device family that is mature, proven, physically robust, and with a fantastic library and costs less. All that leaves is the consideration of the Switch as a home console, where, like the Wii U, I'm wagering that it's going to founder.

The Switch is needed so that Nintendo will finally get third party support again.

And that's all...

The Switch will not get third-party support on a forward basis, ex whatever launch titles they've been able to finagle, without substantial first-year sales, probably of 3.5 million or more, period. There's no return on investment to devs to make versions for a platform that has special hardware considerations (dual use profile with multiple input maps) and an architecture that is different that the other three main platforms, each of which with vastly larger legacy install base, for anything less than that, and I don't believe that the Switch will get it.
 
The first year is by far the most important adoption period for hardware
The DS, 3DS and WiiU provbe this wrong.

There's no return on investment to devs to make versions for a platform that has special hardware considerations.
Are you aware that the Switch is designed to be very easy to port to from the PS4 and XB1. Also the switch can be used as a traditional console as well. Meaning there is only special considerayions for the Switch if the developer wants to add them in. If not straight ports are very easily done for the Switch. Nintendo has officially said that this was one of their main focus points for the Switch. Very little effort to make straight ports to the Switch.

It just has to stay relevant for the first year, and the Switch will be DOA.
You have it wrong. The DS didn't go places in it's first year and still the Gameboy Advance was dead. Newer hardware made the old obselete. The only things keeping the 3DS in the game when compared to the Switch, is the existing 3DS library and the compact size of the 3DS. Everything else, even the portability aspect the Switch can do. If the Switch has a bumper first year, I see the 3DS slowiy dying. Nintendo can prolong this 3DS death however with more 3DS only releases.

I think the Switch is for HARDCORE Nintendo fans that never bought a Wii U.
You think wrong.
The Switch is for 3DS fans who want to play more powerful console games on the go. The sales of things like Ocarina 3D and Majora's Mask 3D and also SM64 on the DS prove this. The 3DS fans want bigger and better games to play on the run. The 3DS hardware is the limiting factor here. The Switch for the most part removes this limit.

The WiiU fans will probablky get a Switch too because they like Nintendo. The WiiU fans are not the main target market for the Switch though.
 
The DS, 3DS and WiiU provbe this wrong.


Are you aware that the Switch is designed to be very easy to port to from the PS4 and XB1. Also the switch can be used as a traditional console as well. Meaning there is only special considerayions for the Switch if the developer wants to add them in. If not straight ports are very easily done for the Switch. Nintendo has officially said that this was one of their main focus points for the Switch. Very little effort to make straight ports to the Switch.

Yeah you don't have any game production or programming experience clearly if you think porting PS4 and XB1 games over to a 720p Tegra X1 console is 'easy' or 'straight forward'.

Skyrim port is an example of PS3/Xbox 360 porting, not current generation hardware.

The challenges to porting current generation PS4/Xbox1 titles to Switch is going to be a significant.

If it was anything otherwise we would be seeing current generation ports to similarly powerful silicone such as the A9X/A10 chips. (As powerful or more so as the Tegra X1) There is a reason we don't.

We have one source who claimed some 3rd party developers were porting their PS4 titles over, these could simply be PSN / Indie titles.

As for seeing games like Titanfall 2 or BF1 on the device, keep those expectations very much tempered.

Square Enix have pretty much not said a single thing about FF XV after Nintendo first rumoured it coming to NX. That silence is deafening ...
 
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Yeah you don't have any game production or programming experience clearly if you think porting PS4 and XB1 games over to a 720p Tegra X1 console is 'easy' or 'straight forward'.
I am just repeating what Nintendo has said. Don't argue with the messenger. Argue with Nintendo as they said it. You really don't keep up with what Nintendo says.

I am sure Nintendo will make it as easy as possible given the different architectures of the consoles.
 
If words from the mouth if Nintendo is speculation then sure. Nintendo has said this a while back.
Given that Nintendo has said absolutely nothing about Switch development, then, no. They have provided a list of developers, and that is all.

You are likely confusing it with the RUMORS regarding Switch development, which stated precisely this.

I am just repeating what Nintendo has said. Don't argue with the messenger. Argue with Nintendo as they said it. You really don't keep up with what Nintendo says.
Clearly you don't either. You are repeating rumors, no facts. We don't even know what architecture the thing is based on, except that it has a GPU from Nvidia.

I am sure Nintendo will make it as easy as possible given the different architectures of the consoles.
Don't take that for granted. The Wii U developer kits were awful to work with, according to the majority of developer comments that have appeared online.
 
I am just repeating what Nintendo has said. Don't argue with the messenger. Argue with Nintendo as they said it. You really don't keep up with what Nintendo says.

I am sure Nintendo will make it as easy as possible given the different architectures of the consoles.

The problem with doing that is that Nintendo has skin in this game. As I'm not their target audience and I have no intention of buying their new hardware, it makes not the slightest difference to me if it fails or succeeds. Nintendo has to convince their prospective customers that the Switch has a future, and it will do so by hook or by crook, including promising third-party support that it cannot command given the form factor and reasonable estimation of the power of its console and its brand equity in relation to the manner of that desired support.

So no, I don't believe a word out of their mouth regarding their third-party support or the general ease about porting from the x86 CISC architecture with two well-trodden input types to their ARM-based CISC architecture. I took that chance with the Wii U and was not rewarded for my investment, so I'll believe it when there are four to six consecutive months of 1 - 2 first-party titles and 3 - 4 third-party ports/releases, and not until then.
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The DS, 3DS and WiiU prove this wrong.

On the contrary, they prove my point, especially with the DS, which was released whilst the GBA and its offspring were still strongly supported and in demand. During its first few years, it had modest growth, 1 - 2 million units per year in each of its target regions. It was not until the GBA began to be phased out in 2006 - 2008 (depending on the region) that you began seeing sales of 3 - 4 million or more YoY. The reason for that is obvious: the Gameboy line was a name that was loved, a design that was trusted and reliable, had a strong library and already, being mature, already had compelling discounts versus the original release price.

You have it wrong. The DS didn't go places in it's first year and still the Gameboy Advance was dead. Newer hardware made the old obselete. The only things keeping the 3DS in the game when compared to the Switch, is the existing 3DS library and the compact size of the 3DS. Everything else, even the portability aspect the Switch can do. If the Switch has a bumper first year, I see the 3DS slowiy dying. Nintendo can prolong this 3DS death however with more 3DS only releases.

Improved hardware is one consideration for purchasing new hardware, but by far the strongest reason driving new adoption is lack of competitve titles on a forward basis. What stoked initial resentment and materially lower sales in the SNES, resulting in SEGA eroding market share of Nintendo with the Mega Drive? The continuation of strong software releases for NES, the singularly enormous library of content in the NES and no backwards compatibility with that library. What separates the 3DS from the Switch? It will continue to have compelling releases (including first-party and confirmed third-party support), has an enormous library, is functionally half the price of the Switch whilst being a dedicated portable experience, and has backward compatibility for DS and a well-populated virtual console.

You think wrong.
The Switch is for 3DS fans who want to play more powerful console games on the go. The sales of things like Ocarina 3D and Majora's Mask 3D and also SM64 on the DS prove this. The 3DS fans want bigger and better games to play on the run. The 3DS hardware is the limiting factor here. The Switch for the most part removes this limit.

The WiiU fans will probably get a Switch too because they like Nintendo. The WiiU fans are not the main target market for the Switch though.

Nintendo does not have the brand cachet or history to attract gamers seeking a 'powerful console', nor will the Switch be able to reasonably claim that descriptor when you look at what it's competition will be during its first months, and especially around holiday 2017 with the release of the Scorpio.

As for your assertion that OoT and Majora's Mask show that gamers want bigger experience on handhelds, you're quite wrong. OoT, one of the most lauded and beloved titles that Nintendo has ever produced, sold 4.5 million units, which is a strong figure in isolation, until you realise that it was roughly half of NSMB2, a watered-down sequel that's devoted to collecting coins, and that it represented an attachment rate of 7.5%, versus 23% for the original. Majora did slightly better by percentage, by that's more a function of the tiny original audience that the N64 title had and it's status as a cult classic within the series.

What was popular on 3DS were level-stratified platformers, Mario Kart which has virtually no plot, and grind games like Pokemon. Games that can be consumed in 5 - 10 minute chunks, not involved story-driven games. Did those have an audience on the console? Yes, certainly, but not with a strong attachment rate and not as system sellers. That's why games like BotW will not sell the Switch to portable-inclined customers.
 
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