The photocopiers have been in overdrive in Cupertino

[*LTD*]

To see a thread titled "The photocopiers have been in overdrive in Cupertino" - with so much support no less - shows that Apple is really falling. Don't get me wrong, they're still "hip", but the fanbase that they had back in the early 2000's is long gone, replaced by the coffee shop hipsters.

I was wondering where all those billions came from . . .

Customers are customers. The old loyalists will leave, replaced by new fans - some new die-hards, some who are casual. It makes no difference. At the rate Apple is going the early 2000's fanbase has been replaced years ago, I'd wager. A decade from now, new Apple customers will consider themselves the "old fanbase" and the cycle will continue.

I don't see how "Apple is really falling" when the demand for their products is sky-high. Like, nearly *all* of their products. Consistently. Each quarter. People (in certain cases) have sold parts of their own organs to get an iPad. Have you seen iPad sales projections for 2012? They're insane. And now Apple's doing Cloud computing the way it should be done. They've been innovating nearly every year for, well, years now.

As far as photocopying goes, they just implemented a feature better than the competition did. It's a notification feature. One feature. They've done it before. Bad news for whoever built their marketing around it before Apple reinterpreted it. But given that Apple does everyone's R&D for them, fair play to them this time around.

The only ones who are "really falling" are those who cannot or will not move into the Post-PC era with compelling products. The also-rans have yet to get a tablet right, for instance, and they've had over a year. Over a freaking year! At this rate it won't be the "the tablet market." It'll be the iPad market. All you need to do is change the "o" in iPod to an "a", and you've got the same situation.

The good news is that iPad shipping times have shrunk to only 1-2 weeks. At least in the US.

 

[maflynn]

the fanbase that they had back in the early 2000's is long gone, replaced by the coffee shop hipsters..

I think that statement is quite accurate. I'm one of those folks who's been with Macs since before the 2000's but over the last few years I've moved away from apple. The problem with coffee shop hipsters is that they'll abandon the brand once its perceived to be uncool. The loyal fanbase apple had eroded by apple's focus on the hip/cool market segment.

I'm at a point where I only use apple products when they fit my needs, not because I see an fruit logo on the back. With the ipadification of OSX and lack of major updates in areas that are important to me, windows 7/windows 8 may be a better option for me. I'd go with Fedora/ubuntu except the apps that I need are not available or no where as polished as the windows or osx variety.

 

[OllyW]

I'm at a point where I only use apple products when they fit my needs, not because I see an fruit logo on the back.

Isn't that the choice most normal people make anyway?

I do like my Apple stuff but if by using Brand X I can get the same job done (or done better) at a lower cost, then Brand X gets my money.

 

[Sodner]

Lot's of Windows/Android fan boys jealous of Apple's success in this thread.

Sheesh!

 

[*LTD*]

Lot's of Windows/Android fan boys jealous of Apple's success in this thread.

Sheesh!

I'm not sure what they're doing camping an Apple fansite. This happens a lot around every major release and a couple of days after quarterly reports.

 

[OllyW]

Lot's of Windows/Android fan boys jealous of Apple's success in this thread.

Sheesh!

Which ones?

Most of the regulars posting in this thread use Apple products.

 

[maflynn]

Isn't that the choice most normal people make anyway?

We're not talking about nomal people but apple fans

I purchased Macintoshs back in the day, not because they were faster because they weren't. Nor did I purchase them because system 7, OS8, OS9 was more stable then windows (it wasn't - remember extension conflicts) but because I was able to work the way I wanted too and they aided my work flow.

Apple's strategic decisions have produced products that appear to be counter to my workflow.

 

[roadbloc]

I'm not sure what they're doing camping an Apple fansite.

This is not an Apple fansite.

 

[G4er?]

The old loyalists will leave,

I'm one of the old loyalists. Over 18 years of using Macs. But Apple has changed so much both in corporate philosophy and mentality and its glorious push of form over function that I'm close to leaving.
I was briefly hopeful when Apple proclaimed "Back to the Mac" but I haven't seen any real results.

 

[maflynn]

I was briefly hopeful when Apple proclaimed "Back to the Mac" but I haven't seen any real results.

Same here but instead of seeing some meaningul inprovements to OSX, we got gestures, and iPad functionality. Certainly there are some nice updates in 10.7 but I was hoping to see them really position OSX over windows, leap frog them. I don't think apple achieved this with 10.7

I see more excited, albeit rumored, updates to windows then what apple has produced with OSX.

 

[thatisme]

What I see missed in this discussion and in the articles is whether or not the "copied" portions of android were, in fact, protected tech in the form of patents or copyrights. Just because someone makes something first doesn't mean that someone else can't just copy it, unless the original creator has filed for protections.

Apple is very good about filing for patents and protections for their products and software (including designs). However, if the creator of the notifications system in question had not been patented or copyrighted, then they are more than likely considered fair game. What is also missed here is that the originator for the notifications system worked for Apple before heading over to Palm, where the notifications were implemented, and Google mimicked or re-engineered in android. Now that person is back at Apple. Does that person own the patents or copyrights, or does the companies he worked for at the time own them.... Just too many unknowns at this point.

 

[*LTD*]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

I was briefly hopeful when Apple proclaimed "Back to the Mac" but I haven't seen any real results.

Same here but instead of seeing some meaningul inprovements to OSX, we got gestures, and iPad functionality. Certainly there are some nice updates in 10.7 but I was hoping to see them really position OSX over windows, leap frog them. I don't think apple achieved this with 10.7

I see more excited, albeit rumored, updates to windows then what apple has produced with OSX.

What is there to leap-frog when the future is mobile?

Desktop operating systems are on their way out in the mass market. You can only push the paradigm so far before it's crowded out by the mobile platforms.

Let Microsoft play with their desktop-OS licensing racket, while everyone else takes us further into the post-PC era. The more MS wastes time on yet another version of Wndows for PCs, the more it will interfere with and muddy their mobile efforts, which quite frankly, have been extremely weak. Their focus is all over the place. Worst part, they're still trying to shove a full OS onto a mobile device. The idea simply doesn't transfer right. I wonder how much failure they have to encounter this time before they start over. Again. Meanwhile Apple's got the game all figured out and is poised to rule the Cloud. Whoever's version is easier for the consumer and more user-centric will win.

For the time being, Google says the cloud lives on the web. Apple says the cloud lives on your devices, across all of them. Note that the PC is just another device as well, according to Apple. It has been demoted. Google's idea is the classic mainframe. Apple's idea is about a personal repository. It'll be fun times. Hope there's still punch when MS arrives to the party.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)



What is there to leap-frog when the future is mobile?

Desktop operating systems are on their way out in the mass market. You can only push the paradigm so far before it's crowded out by the mobile platforms.

Let Microsoft play with their desktop-OS licensing racket, while everyone else takes us further into the post-PC era. The more MS wastes time on yet another version of Wndows for PCs, the more it will interfere with and muddy their mobile efforts, which quite frankly, have been extremely weak. Their focus is all over the place. Worst part, they're still trying to shove a full OS onto a mobile device. The idea simply doesn't transfer right. I wonder how much failure they have to encounter this time before they start over. Again. Meanwhile Apple's got the game all figured out and is poised to rule the Cloud. Whoever's version is easier for the consumer and more user-centric will win.

For the time being, Google says the cloud lives on the web. Apple says the cloud lives on your devices, across all of them. Note that the PC is just another device as well, according to Apple. It has been demoted. Google's idea is the classic mainframe. Apple's idea is about a personal repository. It'll be fun times. Hope there's still punch when MS arrives to the party.

LTD the more I read of your post the more I believe that you really have no idea what you are talking about and just repeating the marketing buzz word garbage put out by Apple.

Apple iCloud is not the best and by far not the easiest. Dropbox figured out the cloud and by far the easiest to use. While I can get others sources with more space Dropbox is by far the easiest.
Now knowing you LTD you will use only the Apple products and claim they are best which is far from the truth.

PC are not going to go anywhere in the next 10+ years. Yes iPad and things like them might allow a PC a longer life they are not going to replace them. iPad, iPods and no matter what Apple says still needs a PC of some type to really work. You can activate them with out it but for the most part you need a PC to load them up with everything. Cost buy the music to fill them up is costly. Top it off transfer times would be measured in days to weeks to fully move everything. Best speed off Apple servers sustained pull I would say 2 Mbits (200 kb/s) but chances are a lot lower. 1 MBit or less seems to be much more common across multiple times of getting larger files off Apple. Burst I will get a good speed but once I cross about 1-2 megs down it just drops like a rock.

You can keep thinking that you can work with out a computer but tell me how easy is it to write a long email or even post here on your touch screen iPad compared to using a computer with a keyboard and mouse. It is just faster and easier to use keyboard and mouse.

There are study after study that finds people type faster and better using a physical keyboard over a touch screen. Email lengths become shorter when people go to touch screen and this was found from people who switch from Blackberry to touch screen only phone.

 

[Sodner]

...what killed it for me was the app store download only purchase requirement. I'll stick on 10.6 as long as I can and then if I have to, windows....

Your reasoning for leaving OS X is MAINLY the horrible, unthinkable part of having to simply -- download it?

 

[thatisme]

LTD the more I read of your post the more I believe that you really have no idea what you are talking about and just repeating the marketing buzz word garbage put out by Apple.

Apple iCloud is not the best and by far not the easiest. Dropbox figured out the cloud and by far the easiest to use. While I can get others sources with more space Dropbox is by far the easiest.
Now knowing you LTD you will use only the Apple products and claim they are best which is far from the truth.

PC are not going to go anywhere in the next 10+ years. Yes iPad and things like them might allow a PC a longer life they are not going to replace them. iPad, iPods and no matter what Apple says still needs a PC of some type to really work. You can activate them with out it but for the most part you need a PC to load them up with everything. Cost buy the music to fill them up is costly. Top it off transfer times would be measured in days to weeks to fully move everything. Best speed off Apple servers sustained pull I would say 2 Mbits (200 kb/s) but chances are a lot lower. 1 MBit or less seems to be much more common across multiple times of getting larger files off Apple. Burst I will get a good speed but once I cross about 1-2 megs down it just drops like a rock.

You can keep thinking that you can work with out a computer but tell me how easy is it to write a long email or even post here on your touch screen iPad compared to using a computer with a keyboard and mouse. It is just faster and easier to use keyboard and mouse.

There are study after study that finds people type faster and better using a physical keyboard over a touch screen. Email lengths become shorter when people go to touch screen and this was found from people who switch from Blackberry to touch screen only phone.

Im on the fence,... I see both of your sides.

I am with LTD, that the mobile market (Tablet, Smart phone, etc.) will be eroding the PC presence out there. BUT, it will be eroding only one side of it. Don't forget that there there are 2 PC markets. Private users for personal use and Enterprise or Corporate users. I see that the mobile market will take over a lion share of the Personal Computing (PC) portion of the business.

For Enterprise, it is a different story. I see that for the mobile warriors out there and point of sale services, the Tablet/Mobile market will make serious leaps. However, for the true workhorses, PC's (mac's and windows) will not be going anywhere, anytime soon. Things like SAP, Office for production work, Creative Suite for production, etc. cannot be duplicated in a mobile form that will allow individuals to untether from the desk. We are talking about efficiency, not function.

The cloud issue is somewhat the same. For personal use, whichever service is cheaper, easier and integrated will prevail. For Enterprise, most company IT departments will not want to relinquish control of the archiving of documents to a 3rd party due to security concerns (see Sony PSN), and will choose to emulate cloud computing within the confines of their walled gardens. Access will only be allowed on campus or via VPN or other such method.

So in a nutshell, Mobile will be taking over a significant share of PC users, but not necessarily for Business or Enterprise.

 

[maflynn]

Your reasoning for leaving OS X is MAINLY the horrible, unthinkable part of having to simply -- download it?

I'm not upgrading to 10.7 because of the app store only purchase. I'll choose which platform works best for me based on the features.

 

[maflynn]

What is there to leap-frog when the future is mobile?

Desktop operating systems are on their way out in the mass market. You can only push the paradigm so far before it's crowded out by the mobile platforms.

So you're saying apple shouldn't really be updating and adding features to OSX? because tablets and smart phones will kill off PC/Macs?

That's pretty sad and delusional

 

[KingCrimson]

It's a Post-PC era because Steve Jobs said so.

 

[ssdeg7]

Apple always says they are the first to do things or the first to do them right, but this time they weren't the first to do anything new, they just copied things from other phones and changed them a bit (I don't know if they are better or worse because i'd have to have them both to compare but many features are really alike).

Anyway, iOS 5.0 is a nice update.

 

[*LTD*]

Apple always says they are the first to do things or the first to do them right, but this time they weren't the first to do anything new, they just copied things from other phones and changed them a bit (I don't know if they are better or worse because i'd have to have them both to compare but many features are really alike).

Anyway, iOS 5.0 is a nice update.

The second applies here (in red.)

Look at the notifications demo.

 

[roadbloc]

Is *LTD* still trying to convince people that Apple did not copy an Android feature.

Christ man! Wake up! It's not a bad thing that Apple copied Android's notification system; I'm glad, it's a brilliant system. But there is simply no denying that Apple copied here. Yeah, sure, they put a skin on it. They may have *possibly* made the animation a bit smoother (i say possibly because i found the android phones ive played around on well optimised).

But the system was on Android first, so no matter how you try and twist it saying inane stuff or simply just rephrasing the word 'copy', Apple coped the idea. You need to accept that there is pretty much no difference between the Android and iOS version, and stop going on that "apple got it right unlike Android." Its exactly the same, if Apple have got it right, so have Android.

This time, I'm glad Apple booted their photocopier. You should be too, it's a great notification system.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

The second applies here (in red.)

Look at the notifications demo.

All I cal say is REALLY. REALLY that is what you are going to try to argue?
yeah the nootificcation demo is ripped straight out of Android.

Thank you but try again.

iMessager. Rip straight out of blackberry. So thank you but try again.

 

[*LTD*]

All I cal say is REALLY. REALLY that is what you are going to try to argue?
yeah the nootificcation demo is ripped straight out of Android.

Thank you but try again.

First of all Apple's notification UI looks better. iOS' UI always has.

Then, the way it's organized, the way iOS splits up the notifications under application headers is better than what Android has currently, where it's just a jumble of everything. You see groups in iOS, and you can get rid of notifications individually.

Being able to sort the notification list by most important to least important apps (and alphabetically) would be nice to see as well.

As for iMessenger, we already had similar apps. But now Apple's dropped a bomb in RIM's camp (as well as Google's.) About time, too.

 

[yg17]

First of all Apple's notification UI looks better. iOS' UI always has.

Then, the way it's organized, the way iOS splits up the notifications under application headers is better than what Android has currently, where it's just a jumble of everything. You see groups in iOS, and you can get rid of notifications individually.

Being able to sort the notification list by most important to least important apps (and alphabetically) would be nice to see as well.

As for iMessenger, we already had similar apps. But now Apple's dropped a bomb in RIM's camp (as well as Google's.) About time, too.

Android's notification system sorts them from oldest to newest, so you know which ones have been around the longest and which ones you likely want to get to first, and you can also get rid of notifications individually.

Perhaps if you've actually used the OS you spend your entire life trashing, you would know that. You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-gb; Nexus S Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

All I cal say is REALLY. REALLY that is what you are going to try to argue?
yeah the nootificcation demo is ripped straight out of Android.

Thank you but try again.

First of all Apple's notification UI looks better. iOS' UI always has.

Then, the way it's organized, the way iOS splits up the notifications under application headers is better than what Android has currently, where it's just a jumble of everything. You see groups in iOS, and you can get rid of notifications individually.

Being able to sort the notification list by most important to least important apps (and alphabetically) would be nice to see as well.

As for iMessenger, we already had similar apps. But now Apple's dropped a bomb in RIM's camp (as well as Google's.) About time, too.

The notifications in android do group together but as soon as you tap the notification area you are taken to the main email/sms/whatever application where you can deal with your notifications at will.

If one is better than the other is entirely personal taste. If I have 27 unread emails I can only view 10 on the iOS notification system Max, where as with Android I click the stacked notification message and it takes me straight to my inbox where I can read whatever email I like at will.

I'm sure I've read posts here complain how busy Android's notification drawer can get but with the current grouping, that is kept to a minimum.

Both notification systems are really well executed buti will say the notification popup in iOS5 does seem to be too thick at the top of the screen. It would have also been nice if Apple had added wifi/GPS/Bluetooth quick switches like Samsung does with TouchWiz.