Ah, understood.
I've found Tiger to be roughly on par with Debian LXDE, in terms of responsiveness, but Leopard seems to run like a complete and utter dog. Maybe it's just me.
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I've found Tiger to be roughly on par with Debian LXDE, in terms of responsiveness, but Leopard seems to run like a complete and utter dog. Maybe it's just me.
The Linux distros are much newer.
Remember what would happen if you compared OS X Yosemite to Ubuntu 14.04, both running on an iBook G4...
The Linux distros are much newer.
Remember what would happen if you compared OS X Yosemite to Ubuntu 14.04, both running on an iBook G4...
I found that if you install Openbox, a panel (lxpanel or xfce4-panel), a (optional) dock app, use pcmanfm as your desktop manager, compton as a compositor, and install preload, linux on a G4 is pretty comparable to Leopard. Scrolling in browser windows is MUCH faster in linux once the page completely loads. The one thing Leopard (and Tiger) have over linux is CorePlayer. There is nothing comparable and CP allows for mostly-smooth 720p video on a decently-specced G4 without frame drops or needing command line switches like ffmpeg/mplayer needs in linux. This is using video as a benchmark, though. Everything else is relative and pretty much equally comparable, with the exception of security. Linux obviously smokes PPC OS X in that regard.
Exactly, which is why I find it hard to believe anyone experiences faster than Tiger/Leopard speed.
Linux does, in theory, allow you to strip the OS back to the bare minimum but there's no getting away from the fact that OSX was written for the hardware - Linux isn't. Admittedly that becomes more blurry on 64bit and I did get a better experience on a Dual G5.
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I often say this but I've had Leopard install that were terrible - instantly corrected by a reinstall - no idea why.
Out of the box, on a single G4, Leopard needs the tweaks to get it moving.
The Sid port and all the other powerpc images aren't written for the hardware?
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I guess it has been along time since my Wheezy DLSD install and maybe should try again but I specifically set that machine up to be as fast and slimmed down as possible. In the end couldn't live with the shocking touchpad driver.
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I don't know - you tell me
I'm judging by the herculean struggle to get everything working to some degree - sound, graphics, wifi, right-click etcCome on people, put it away. The two environments have their natural strengths. On such an architecture, choice is a very good thing to have, and we're lucky enough to have that much.
@Dronecatcher, let's agree to disagree, and leave it at that.
@Dronecatcher, let's agree to disagree, and leave it at that.
Added Ubuntu 12.04 to the Distribution Downloads sector.
That's as old as we'll go. That said, let's see what we can do with it.
That's as old as we'll go. That said, let's see what we can do with it.
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I really want to use my PowerPC machines more often, and it is great to have choice, but they're getting kinda long in the tooth for anything more than a hobby, due to the necessity of a feature rich web browser, in this day and age. No matter which operating system you use, you'll be severely hampered by the lack of raw compute, and the cancer known as javascript.
Agreed but you can get by with script blockers and mobile user agents - all depends on your needs really and how quickly you need things to happen!
Unfortunately for me, I need to use JS heavy sites for work related tasks. I do like to use these machines for things that are not time sensitive, though.
I guess it has been along time since my Wheezy DLSD install and maybe should try again but I specifically set that machine up to be as fast and slimmed down as possible. In the end couldn't live with the shocking touchpad driver.
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I don't know - you tell me
You have a point about the trackpad stuff. On some machines, it’s not an issue and works great. On others (mostly later PowerBooks), it’s either sticky or it’s a jittery mess. Libinput makes it sticky; synaptics (if it works) makes it jittery. You can’t win on the later USB trackpads.
The struggle with other hardware issues has dissipated somewhat with newer kernel releases. You’ll always need to install firmware for WiFi and video but sound usually works out of the box, as does two-finger right-click (on machines that support it).
Running Linux or Mac OS X should always be based on your own needs. I don’t view any of this discussion as a pointless debate; rather, a pluses and minuses list of both, and a good way to iron out the advantages and disadvantages of both operating systems.
The Linux distros are much newer.
Remember what would happen if you compared OS X Yosemite to Ubuntu 14.04, both running on an iBook G4...
Agree 100%. If you install the old yellowdog linux on a g4 it'll be as fast or faster than tiger because it's time period correct, has a slimmer kernel and lacks the bloat we call systemd these days. Debian 10 would be like running Mojave on a G4, only debian would be MUCH faster than mojave (if mojave *could* run on a G4). With that said i triple boot tiger/leopard/ubuntu. They all have advantages and disadvantages, but for browsing and security Linux wins. Maybe not browsing speed (as there are no FF60esr based browsers for 10.4/10.5 to compare with), but for web compatibility. To each there own, or just triple boot like me, and have the best of everything these machines and the available OS's have to offer.
On a side note... OpenBSD will smoke them all in speed and has excellent mac hardware support. It's downfall however is it lacks a good browser for ppc.
Cheers
Added Firefox 39, 47, and the fixed version of 52.9 to Web Browsers under Software. Also slightly revamped the section's format to more accurately reflect software release dates.
Plus, overhauled the Desktop Environments and Window Managers sections for simplicity and description.
Plus, overhauled the Desktop Environments and Window Managers sections for simplicity and description.
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Instruction for adding a battery indicator has finally been added! Now we can check the battery's status without looking under our machines.
There's a working battery applet that I posted some time ago here- https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-in-debian-ports.2128808/page-2#post-26346121
All I did was follow the instructions, then create a .desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart to run it at login. Works great on all of my notebooks, and no modules necessary.
Added Surf, a very lightweight, WebKit-based browser with a minimal GUI. Complete with installer.
Also added a YouTube speed tweak, playback fix, and USB boot instructions.
Plus, removed the installers' requirements of replacing other browsers, so Arctic Fox, SpiderWeb/Mail, and the like are now completely independent installs.
Also added a YouTube speed tweak, playback fix, and USB boot instructions.
Plus, removed the installers' requirements of replacing other browsers, so Arctic Fox, SpiderWeb/Mail, and the like are now completely independent installs.
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@sheich0608, this might pique your interest...
Alright, so I got the proposed fix of slotting kernel 3.2 into Debian 8.11 on my iBook G4 done. Haven't tried with 14.04 or anything else yet. But once tested, it goes into and comes out of sleep flawlessly. However, there is one problem...
After it boots up, LightDM does not start (just a cursor), so the desktop needs to be activated with 'startx' from a separate session.
As seen here, all the colors are off / distorted, almost as if the graphics are in some sort of reduced-bit mode.
Not terribly sure at the moment what the conflict between 3.2 and whatever else this happens to be is, but this ain't over.
If anyone else wants to give it a shot on any other systems / distributions, here's the kernel; just install it like any other .deb. Guide below.
Alright, so I got the proposed fix of slotting kernel 3.2 into Debian 8.11 on my iBook G4 done. Haven't tried with 14.04 or anything else yet. But once tested, it goes into and comes out of sleep flawlessly. However, there is one problem...
After it boots up, LightDM does not start (just a cursor), so the desktop needs to be activated with 'startx' from a separate session.
As seen here, all the colors are off / distorted, almost as if the graphics are in some sort of reduced-bit mode.
Not terribly sure at the moment what the conflict between 3.2 and whatever else this happens to be is, but this ain't over.
If anyone else wants to give it a shot on any other systems / distributions, here's the kernel; just install it like any other .deb. Guide below.
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Wow that’s great progress on booting the old kernel. I’d like to try it with 16.04, but I can’t get it to install on my PowerBook with the server software. Firstly, I get an error about the yenta probe/socket not being able to start. The installation continues, but then fails at the select software section. I only have OpenSSH and basic applications highlighted for install at that step, so I’m not sure what’s going wrong. Any suggestions?
Thank you all!
Thank you all!
Ubuntu 12.04 and Debian 7 (Wheezy). They came with 3.2 by default, as it was an LTS release - that I believe was cut support in 2016, at least on the Debian side.
Update: I tried the exact same thing with 3.14, and got the exact same process / result.
So, something happened between 3.14 and 3.16 that screwed everything up. Maybe this is the same issue discussed in PowerPC Liberation? (http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.com/2014/11/taking-walk-with-debian-jessie.html)
After reviewing that post, it dawned on me that this could be a Radeon-specific problem. So, is there anyone around here with Nvidia G4s that could give this a go? That would be very helpful so we know what the broad effect of this is.
I've previously said Ubuntu 12.04 rocks. I must now add that Wheezy rules. They were probably the most problem-free PowerPC releases so far, which is part of the reason I've made sure much of the software in the Wiki is for 12.04 / 7 at minimum, so it's still at least viable to use them day-to-day.
Given all that, I wrote and sent all this just now from 3.14, and it's been stable enough so far. Maybe we could find a band-aid solution to at least make the visuals more bearable and just leave it at that as an option...
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Are you at all able to continue through the install? What model is your PowerBook, at what point does the Yenta error come up, and what exactly does it do when it fails at the software selection?
Remember, if one distro doesn't work, others are always an option. Even the oldest choice here is five years newer than Leopard and was cut from support eight whole years after Leopard was.
Ah, okay, thanks for clarifying that. I'm desperate to find a kernel that plays nice with the mobility Radeon 7500 (ibook G3), as every distro I've tried, all the way back to Ubuntu 10.04, only utilizes the software rasterizer.
Generally, I'd keep G3s on OS X for a couple of reasons, including for their typical GPU support.
You could slap in an SSD and make a nice, optimized Tiger build with the TigerSierra theme. Give the thing a specific purpose, like undistracted writing.
Maybe a stupid suggestion, but a little while after Buster releases on the 7th and Bullseye's cycle has been up and running, you could try your luck with Sid again. Hell, you could even bring the problem up on the mailing list and see what the devs have to say. They could end up investigating it.
Worth a shot.