Cost more? Probably not, but wouldn't cost less either, si indeed it wouldn't make sense to sell it cheaper
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The rumored 12-inch MacBook with Apple Silicon - a 2024 perspective (Speculation Megathread?)
- Thread starter LaterWolf
- WikiPost WikiPost
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
They wouldn't, the impossible thin and light era with MacBooks is over. But that's also why it's less likely that they re-release a 12" but if they ever do it might be slightly thicker to accomodate the magic keyboard
I am sure there is a market for a 2 pounds / <1kg laptop with cellular. Apple is currently leaving that market to Windows (I use a 2 pounds 13" Thinkpad with cellular). Intel does not allow for the same battery life (although for a Windows device it's not bad), but with Elite X this kind of device could start appealing to some MacBook users that are not anti-Windows... and maybe push Apple to reconsider a <1kg MacBook...
Pretty much this. It's the iPhone 12/13 mini story all over again.
Some forum users predicted mini is the best thing since sliced bread. Meanwhile, no Android manufacturer is making small phones. Given how intense competition is on Android, that tells you all you need to know about demand.
Same thing with a proposed 12-inch MacBook. PC manufacturers aren't stupid. They've tried every configuration: convertibles, 2-in-1, dual display notebooks, etc. The 12-inch models like ThinkPad X270 came and went due to lack of demand. Everybody adopted 13- and 14-inch designs.
I think you both could be right.
The 2017 12" Retina MacBook was 0.14–0.52 inch thick and needed the infamous butterfly keyboard to get to that. The 2024 M3 MacBook Air, even with a better keyboard, is thinner overall at 0.44 inch.
So anything new could certainly be 0.44" - Apple has shown it can be done. And we have almost a decade of advancements to leverage- better display technology, thinner bezels, lower power processors with less heat production, better battery chemistry, tiny speakers and psychoacoustics based DSP tech, etc.
The keyboard width would be the minimum size limiter, but even if the width and depth remained the same, the overall laptop COULD be made thinner and lighter just by copy/pasting the current MBA tech and design language. 👍
The biggest issue with 12-inch is the market no longer exists.
In 2015, there was still a clear separation between desktop and notebook computer. You had one desktop computer on your desk and a notebook purely for travel.
Today, people dock their notebook or at least have a USB-C monitor or cheap hub. That means using a single computer for desk and travel/remote work. The 12-inch display and keyboard are not viable for primary use when docked.
So what's the market for a 12-inch notebook? Someone who wants two notebooks, one for desk use and another for travel? There's just no business case here.
In 2015, there was still a clear separation between desktop and notebook computer. You had one desktop computer on your desk and a notebook purely for travel.
Today, people dock their notebook or at least have a USB-C monitor or cheap hub. That means using a single computer for desk and travel/remote work. The 12-inch display and keyboard are not viable for primary use when docked.
So what's the market for a 12-inch notebook? Someone who wants two notebooks, one for desk use and another for travel? There's just no business case here.
I used to use an 11.5" MBA as my primary machine. At the desk it was plugged into a 24" monitor. The keyboard and trackpad still worked. Why would a 12" laptop not work as a primary device in this scenario? I supposed if you were a videographer you would want something else, but a lot of people don't work with large data sets like that.
Personally, I wouldn't want to use it as a primary device. The palm rest and trackpad are too small for everyday use, even if you're using for Word or Excel. The keyboard lacks the full-size function (volume and brightness) keys that we're used to today on MacBook Air.
Another factor is the power adapter size and weight. A decade ago, you needed to carry a 45W or 85W MagSafe 2 adapter for your MacBook Air or MacBook Pro. Today, the 30W adapter is smaller and lighter than the old 45W. There are fewer benefits to carrying a 12-inch notebook than before.
I liked the 11.6" MacBook Air. The problem with the 12" MacBook & 11.6" MacBook Air before it wasn't that it was small; it was the known compromises. From a portability perspective they were great. If you could re-envision those smaller MacBooks with the modern day Apple silicon performance with less-expensive Apple external displays they might be able to make another go of it. But the performance and battery life have to be good.
What am I missing that an external display, keyboard, and mouse would not solve?
People don’t want an extra keyboard and mouse if the one on the notebook works. The Magic Keyboard is literally the same size as the 13-inch MacBook Air’s keyboard. They also want to use the webcam and speakers on the notebook while docked or connected to a USB-C monitor.
If people are choosing to buy one computer for work and travel, they’ll go for the one with a comfortable keyboard, trackpad, and decent size display. That’s the 13-inch MacBook Air.
Maybe we're thinking about this wrong. Maybe the next rev of the 13" air will be that 2 lb device that's similar in size as the 12" Macbook. Just shrinking the bezels and frame of the 13" would just about do it. I'm assuming the guts could be trimmed and Apple could source a screen with a bit denser PPI and have the same resolution of today's 13.6" screen.
Ship a functional keyboard in a device that size, and that would make for a pretty desirable 13". Figure five years of run for before a new design (from 2022) - and we'll have that mac in 2027.
Ship a functional keyboard in a device that size, and that would make for a pretty desirable 13". Figure five years of run for before a new design (from 2022) - and we'll have that mac in 2027.
It's interesting that there are a vocal few who:
1. Thinks 13" MBA is too big for them
2. Thinks iPadOS is not productive enough for them
3. Wouldn't mind paying a higher premium than the 13" MBA or they want Apple to somehow make a new 12" cost less than the 13" MBA
I think this market is small. I have my doubts that Apple would ever want to release a 12" Macbook since the market is so small and it would throw wrench into the Air/Pro separation that is very easy to understand now.
I get the passion though. I'm a iPhone 13 Mini user and I refuse to upgrade to a larger phone and I'm willing to pay a premium for a mini Pro iPhone. But Apple is never going to make it because the market is simply not there.
1. Thinks 13" MBA is too big for them
2. Thinks iPadOS is not productive enough for them
3. Wouldn't mind paying a higher premium than the 13" MBA or they want Apple to somehow make a new 12" cost less than the 13" MBA
I think this market is small. I have my doubts that Apple would ever want to release a 12" Macbook since the market is so small and it would throw wrench into the Air/Pro separation that is very easy to understand now.
I get the passion though. I'm a iPhone 13 Mini user and I refuse to upgrade to a larger phone and I'm willing to pay a premium for a mini Pro iPhone. But Apple is never going to make it because the market is simply not there.
1. Apple hates downsizing the keyboard, and 12'' is minimum, so it can't
2. The crazy, I mean crazy overlap with not just the iPad pro but the iPad air
3. Yes, thermally Apple Silicon is better that Intel, but if the m3 and m2 can suffer in a fanless 13'' chassy, imagine the thermal throttling that would happen, like original MBA levels (and no, you can't fit a fan because it will take up too much space)
4. And if they fit a M1 the 13" which can still be found on the refurbished and some retailers is good enough
5. If they put a a17 pro the value proposition would be shifted, if it can run macos (I mean it's not as heavy as Windows but nowhere near some Linux distro levels)
6. For God's sake put macos on the iPad pro (or some kind of hybrid like tablet Samsung DeX) if it's gonna happen
7. If they want to make it thin, we'll you get a Mac iPhone 6
8. what's the point of macos if you can't multi-task other than some desktop applications
9. Would you like an even thinner butterfly to fit a meh battery
10. Oh the battery
11. At this rate bye bye headphone jack
And so much more. This is not a rage post but constructive criticism. I'll see your opinion down below.
I really think it's a case of the management team being scared of it cannibalising the iPad Pro because the iPad Pro doesn't currently run the same software suite. Apple could totally fix that for the iPad Pro, but for whatever reason they don't want it to run Mac software.
Steve would have not been concerned about that - if some of Apple's products end up killing the other its because the product needed to be killed. Trying to artificially keep a product alive by not releasing something means that eventually a competitor will.
Much as I love apple's products at the moment there are definite gaps where you can tell apple are not trying and it isn't due to technical reasons, but more marketing reasons. And that sucks.
With the power of the M series parts such a small machine doesn't need to be limited to a secondary travel machine.
Docked to a monitor, etc. via a single thunderbolt port it could function as most people's only computer just fine - it's more than powerful enough for a lot of people.
I mean realistically, an iPhone pro could do that if apple didn't artificially restrict the software and RAM on it.
The M-series chips eliminate the reason for a 12-inch MacBook today.
A decade ago, there were clear distinctions between Apple's notebooks for portability and power. The MacBook Pro 13/15, was thick and required bulky 60W/85W chargers. The MacBook Air offered a thinner design, but still needed a 45W adapter and had a fan. The 12-inch MacBook filled a niche by being ultra-thin, fanless, and using a low-power 29W adapter. But it compromised in usability.
Today's MacBook Air is just as thin as the 12-inch MacBook. It also remains fanless and uses a very similar 30W adapter. With the minimal size difference (only 1.6 inches) coming at the expense of a less comfortable keyboard and trackpad, the 12-inch MacBook simply doesn't offer enough advantages to justify its existence in Apple's current lineup.
The rise of MacBooks as desktop replacements makes a 12-inch model with a cramped keyboard and trackpad unappealing. Everybody is buying only one notebook as a DTR and mobile computer, so who's buying a second 12-inch computer purely for travel?
The main reason why people want something like the 12" MacBook is weight. 2 pounds or lower.
And today it does not need to be 12" or have a compromised keyboard to get to that weight.
My Thinkpad Nano is 13", has more travel than the Magic Keyboard and weights as much as my 12" Macbook from 2017. And the battery size is the same as a M1 MacBook. And I am sure the Apple Silicon motherboard would fit in there easily (it's slightly thicker than the Retina Macbook).
So making a MacBook that is 300-400gr lighter with Apple Silicon is totally possible and it can be done with a 13" screen and a Magic Keyboard. That Apple doesn't want to do because it would be more expensive to make or would make little sense business-wise it's a totally different story.
And today it does not need to be 12" or have a compromised keyboard to get to that weight.
My Thinkpad Nano is 13", has more travel than the Magic Keyboard and weights as much as my 12" Macbook from 2017. And the battery size is the same as a M1 MacBook. And I am sure the Apple Silicon motherboard would fit in there easily (it's slightly thicker than the Retina Macbook).
So making a MacBook that is 300-400gr lighter with Apple Silicon is totally possible and it can be done with a 13" screen and a Magic Keyboard. That Apple doesn't want to do because it would be more expensive to make or would make little sense business-wise it's a totally different story.
I’m not so sure on that, the iPad pro starts within spitting distance of the MacBook Air , and I would bet that there’s very little overlap between buying demographics.
I don't know that weight is the reason some people might want a small MacBook, I'd say it is at least equally size, if not more substantially a question of size. The original palm-held PCs were all about size, because that equates directly with portability. I'm not sure that potential customers would care much if the device was 2 pounds or 3.
Apple's problem is that there is no obvious market for such a small computer to justify the cost of development and manufacture. It would not necessarily be performance compromised by a small form factor, but at a time when finally we're seeing sufficient power, performance and longevity from laptops that many are moving to them rather than desktop models, making a smaller laptop which users can put on a desk to plug in a big monitor etc doesn't seem to be the way the market is going.
Certainly there's a voluble proportion of us that would buy one, but I can't see it being a realistic number - unless somehow it could be produced for the (current $650, Walmart) selling price of the remaining M1 MBA.
Apple's problem is that there is no obvious market for such a small computer to justify the cost of development and manufacture. It would not necessarily be performance compromised by a small form factor, but at a time when finally we're seeing sufficient power, performance and longevity from laptops that many are moving to them rather than desktop models, making a smaller laptop which users can put on a desk to plug in a big monitor etc doesn't seem to be the way the market is going.
Certainly there's a voluble proportion of us that would buy one, but I can't see it being a realistic number - unless somehow it could be produced for the (current $650, Walmart) selling price of the remaining M1 MBA.
I'd agree with that. It's not weight that is the problem - 11-12" machines fit in smaller bags, bag pockets, etc.
ThinkPad can get down to 2 lbs with 13-inch because it uses Mg and carbon fiber. That material is less strong but lighter and results in chassis flex. Apple wouldn't use those materials because they decided years ago Al is the best all around.
This is more evidence to suggest 13-inch remains the smallest form factor consumers are willing to buy. Once you go smaller, there are big compromises in usability. The Japanese were focused on smaller and smaller form factor in the late 2000s. They ended up with 8-inch pocket-size Sony VAIO products that looked cute but were totally unusable.
Last edited:
I don't really see the value of a 12" MacBook again now that the 13" Air with M2/M3 exists.
The 12" MacBook was meant to be analogous to the 2008 MacBook Air - a "designer" PC that is both meant to be ultraportable and to introduce a new era of product design to Apple. They were both meant to represent a change in Apple's philosophy behind their product lineup.
The thing is, we've already experienced the same thing with the 2021 14"/16" MacBook Pro and the M2/M3 MacBook Air. The M2 Air is already so close in size to the 12" while remaining thinner with a very similar weight. There's nothing a 12" MacBook would offer over the existing Silicon Airs to make it a higher end product like the original, and anything cheaper than the current M2 Air Apple would rather you buy an iPad.
Just seems like it's no longer got a space in the lineup due to the new MacBook Airs.
The 12" MacBook was meant to be analogous to the 2008 MacBook Air - a "designer" PC that is both meant to be ultraportable and to introduce a new era of product design to Apple. They were both meant to represent a change in Apple's philosophy behind their product lineup.
The thing is, we've already experienced the same thing with the 2021 14"/16" MacBook Pro and the M2/M3 MacBook Air. The M2 Air is already so close in size to the 12" while remaining thinner with a very similar weight. There's nothing a 12" MacBook would offer over the existing Silicon Airs to make it a higher end product like the original, and anything cheaper than the current M2 Air Apple would rather you buy an iPad.
Just seems like it's no longer got a space in the lineup due to the new MacBook Airs.
I do agree that materials play a role, although Apple could probably fit a 12.5in screen in the Retina Macbook body by just reducing the bezels. As for 12in I don't feel compromised if it's at least 16.10 and even less if it's 3:2. But the latest is not an aspect ratio Apple uses and as you say Apple has made a choice or materials.
Personally however, I am glad to be on Windows (not that Windows is perfect, far from it, but it has its pros and cons vs MacOS) and have more choice of sizes and form factors (and cellular support).