Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Surely you're joking...
Actually no. You said nobody even tried, and I just corrected you because you’re wrong. I didn’t say it was a good result, but at least there has been attempts.

I was halfway hoping that Apple would have done a better job at producing something that was ready for mainstream, and maybe the functionality is, but this Vision Pro is not a product for the average person. In it’s current form, factor and price-point, it will simply not sell.

Apple should have introduced two versions; the Vision for the masses, with slightly inferior HW, and Vision Pro, the one they did launch. Two price-points, the Vision at $1K, and Vision Pro at $3.5K. Kinda how they introduced new monitors last year…

Vision Pro on its own will, and is, turn into a laughing joke, like the $800 wheels on the Mac Pro…
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacWiz_007
  • Like
Reactions: ismi
It will be interesting to see how much fatigue is caused by pinching vs a normal mouse pointer tap. It would seem over time the pinching would add up to be more tiresome and I'd like to know what the average maximum time to wear this headset would be as a result.
If everything is as they say (the people who used the headset), I think the gestures could be less or more fatiguing than a mouse, depending on what you’re doing, but for most people probably less. A mouse you have to move around with your arm, but with the headset, you just use your eyes to effortlessly look at targets. Mouse button press vs pinching seems it could be a wash because mouse click is very minimal movement but there is the resistance of a physical button. Pinch is ever so slightly more movement but still extremely minimal and no resistance. What could make much more of a difference to fatigue are the other bigger gestures—scrolling, zooming, etc. If you’re doing a lot of those gestures all day, it could be more fatiguing than a mouse (eg. scroll wheel). But the gestures seem to be very natural maybe even fun movements so that might play a factor in one’s energy level.
I would say from what we’ve seen so far, for most people, gesture fatigue shouldn’t be an issue. I think headset discomfort would be an issue long before that. Although so far people say it’s very comfortable. But of course we’ll have to wait and see about all of this as people wear it for longer periods and really use it.
 
Actually no. You said nobody even tried, and I just corrected you because you’re wrong. I didn’t say it was a good result, but at least there has been attempts.

I was halfway hoping that Apple would have done a better job at producing something that was ready for mainstream, and maybe the functionality is, but this Vision Pro is not a product for the average person. In it’s current form, factor and price-point, it will simply not sell.

Apple should have introduced two versions; the Vision for the masses, with slightly inferior HW, and Vision Pro, the one they did launch. Two price-points, the Vision at $1K, and Vision Pro at $3.5K. Kinda how they introduced new monitors last year…

Vision Pro on its own will, and is, turn into a laughing joke, like the $800 wheels on the Mac Pro…
What I meant when I said "nobody even tried" is that nobody tried at the level of sophistication as what Apple presented with the Vision Pro.

Suggesting that the Quest 1, 2, 3, or anything by anyone so far, really, comes even close to Apple's Vision Pro is, to me at least, ridiculous.

I do understand your gripe about Apple not accommodating the mass market with this first device... but think about it. This is the first COMPLETELY new device Apple is introducing in almost a decade. It's chock-full of advanced technology, new interaction paradigms, never-before-seen performance and engineering... nobody ever expected them to come out the gate swinging with a Quest 1/2/3 competitor. Everybody expected them to announce something that kills, that not only matches but, by far, outclasses what came before. And on that front, they delivered.

This thing, in terms of quality and performance, is so far above anything comparable in existence, that there was never a chance it could be affordable in its first iteration. They reached for the sky but stopped at the edge of the solar system. I'm sure if they wanted to, they would have made this thing cost $20'000, pulling out any stops--all stops. But, well... this isn't a gold watch. It's a platform they're betting the next decades on.

The point, in this first version, was never to make a mass market version. It was to show the world the potential of what Apple thinks AR/VR can be. It's showing the world where the puck is heading in terms of computing.

Given that, if I were Apple, I'd do exactly what they did... make the craziest, highest quality headset they could that blows anything in existence the **** away... at a price point, while exorbitant, is still affordable to businesses and enthusiasts (with a lot of money, obviously).

Excite everyone with potential, get developers on board, have them create content... THEN launch a more consumer-friendly price-point version a year later, along with an improved "Vision Pro" alongside it. Rinse. Repeat. Dominate.

They wanted to enter this market with a bang--and that they did.

The two versions you talk about? If that isn't already in their pipeline I don't know what else to write.

To dismiss the Vision Pro as an "expensive joke" is to not get how serious Apple is about the AR space. I truly believe they're in this with a very high degree of seriousness and not just as an experiment. Too much time, money and effort went into the creation of Vision Pro's degree of sophistication for that to even be a possibility.
 
Who really cares about how the Vision Pro will work - very very few people in there will spend $3,500 on it. It is simply too expensive, and not ready for primetime.

You make it sound like the vision pro is a one and done product, rather than the first step of a long-term product strategy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ismi
Yeah she's just clicking her fingers.

View attachment 2215276
…the entire point of the downward facing cameras is so you can do these gestures in your lap. Obviously this was developed with ergonomics (and accessibility) heavily in mind.

In fact, none of the demo users were trained to reach out and interact with the panels (even though that does work, per Gruber).

1686268886558.png

1686268924231.png

1686268942104.png

1686268962071.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ismi
Who really cares about how the Vision Pro will work - very very few people in there will spend $3,500 on it. It is simply too expensive, and not ready for primetime.
You haven't seen it. You haven't tried it. Yet you've concluded it's not read for primetime. You've given us no explanation for your proclamation. Why is it not ready? How would you make it ready for primetime. Many, many people will buy it, including myself. It's an exciting product and I want to be a part of it. If you can't afford it, I understand, but don't bash it because of it.
 


Apple Vision Pro, Apple's new "spatial computing" device, does not have a hardware-based control mechanism. It relies on eye tracking and hand gestures to allow users to manipulate objects in the virtual space in front of them. In a recent developer session, Apple designers outlined the specific gestures that can be used with Vision Pro, and how some of the interactions will work.

apple-vision-pro-gestures.jpg

  • Tap - Tapping the thumb and the index finger together signals to the headset that you want to tap on a virtual element on the display that you're looking at. Users have also described this as a pinch, and it is the equivalent to tapping on the screen of an iPhone.
  • Double Tap - Tapping twice initiates a double tap gesture.
  • Pinch and Hold - A pinch and a hold is similar to a tap and hold gesture, and it does things like highlighting text.
  • Pinch and Drag - Pinching and dragging can be used to scroll and to move windows around. You can scroll horizontally or vertically, and if you move your hand faster, you'll be able to scroll faster.
  • Zoom - Zoom is one of two main two-handed gestures. You can pinch your fingers together and pull your hands apart to zoom in, and presumably zooming out will have a pushing sort of motion. Window sizes can also be adjusted by dragging at the corners.
  • Rotate - Rotate is the other two-handed gesture and based on Apple's chart, it will involve pinching the fingers together and rotating the hands to manipulate virtual objects.
Gestures will work in tandem with eye movements, and the many cameras in the Vision Pro will track where you are looking with great accuracy. Eye position will be a key factor in targeting what you want to interact with using hand gestures. As an example, looking at an app icon or on-screen element targets it and highlights it, and then you can follow up with a gesture.

Hand gestures do not need to be grand, and you can keep your hands in your lap. Apple is encouraging that, in fact, because it will keep your hands and arms from getting tired from being held in the air. You only need a tiny pinch gesture for the equivalent of a tap, because the cameras can track precise movements.

@macrumors Eye tracking and pinching is the interface on the new #AppleVisionPro and we could to try jt out! #Apple #VR #AR ♬ original sound - MacRumors

What you're looking at will let you select and manipulate objects that are both close to you and far from you, and Apple does anticipate scenarios where you might want to use larger gestures to control objects that are right in front of you. You can reach out and use your fingertips to interact with an object. For example, if you have a Safari window right in front of you, you can reach your hand out and scroll from there rather than using your fingers in your lap.

In addition to gestures, the headset will support hand movements such as air typing, though it doesn't seem like those who have received a demo have been able to try this feature as of yet. Gestures will work together, of course, and to do something like create a drawing, you'll look at a spot on the canvas, select a brush with your hand, and use a gesture in the air to draw. If you look elsewhere, you'll be able to move the cursor immediately to where you're looking.

While these are the six main system gestures that Apple has described, developers can create custom gestures for their apps that will perform other actions. Developers will need to make sure custom gestures are distinct from the system gestures or common hand movements that people might use, and that the gestures can be repeated frequently without hand strain.

To supplement hand and eye gestures, Bluetooth keyboards, trackpads, mice, and game controllers can be connected to the headset, and there are also voice-based search and dictation tools.

Multiple people who have been able to try the Vision Pro have had the same word to describe the control system - intuitive. Apple's designers seem to have created it to work similarly to multitouch gestures on the iPhone and the iPad, and so far, reactions have been positive.

MacRumors videographer Dan Barbera was able to try out the headset and he was impressed with the controls. You can see his... Click here to read rest of article

Article Link: These Gestures Are How You Control Apple Vision Pro
I wonder if any of these will be able to be modified/customized/adjustable for the user?
 
To those saying the Vision Pro is "not ready for prime time"... what does being "ready for prime time" even mean? A product at the level of quality as the Vision Pro for $499? I'd bet that that's literally not possible today.

You start crazy--with a vision. Then you figure out the rest.

To be fair, that's not how you could describe the origin of the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone.

But modern times ask for modern approaches--and time will tell if Apple was wrong with this headset.

I think they picked the right approach. (I'm not worried about them. I'd wager their designers, engineers, leadership and marketing know what they're doing--or at least I'd hope so). Then again even Apple isn't all knowing. We'll see. I wish them luck.
 
I wonder if any of these will be able to be modified/customized/adjustable for the user?
Developers can create their own custom gestures, so I bet some sort of accessibility based feature will be how this gets to individuals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jwdsail
I find it amusing that the same folks who ripped Samsung for creating a foldable phone (gimmick, desperate, solution in search of a problem, etc.) are the same ones talking about how awesome and courageous Apple is now that they've released an AR/VR headset. And they're entering late into a collapsing, disaster of a product space no less. Samsung has sold more foldable phones in one year than all AR/VR headsets combined over the past 7-8 years, btw.
 
I find it amusing that the same folks who ripped Samsung for creating a foldable phone (gimmick, desperate, solution in search of a problem, etc.) are the same ones talking about how awesome and courageous Apple is now that they've released an AR/VR headset. And they're entering late into a collapsing, disaster of a product space no less. Samsung has sold more foldable phones in one year than all AR/VR headsets combined over the past 7-8 years, btw.
The "foldable" is a bet. In terms of sales, Samsung answered a consumer call that was a thing, apparently. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple also has foldable devices in their labs, though I personally don't see the appeal. But that's just me. I enjoy my iPhone in the "fixed" form it comes in.

Skip folding.. go straight to Humane-level hologram/voice interaction. Then again that reaaaaally is uncharted territory and we can collectively applaud Samsung for riding "foldables" to a profit--if they did. Did they? I really don't know.
 
The "foldable" is a bet. In terms of sales, Samsung answered a consumer call that was a thing, apparently. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple also has foldable devices in their labs, though I personally don't see the appeal. But that's just me. I enjoy my iPhone in the "fixed" form it comes in.

Skip folding.. go straight to Humane-level hologram/voice interaction. Then again that reaaaaally is uncharted territory and we can collectively applaud Samsung for riding "foldables" to a profit--if they did. Did they? I really don't know.
I can't speak for profitability (although they are close to releasing their 5th gen) but the only thing keeping foldables from being mainstream is the price. Or if Apple released one, that would do it as well. Regardless of the price.
 
I can't speak for profitability (although they are close to releasing their 5th gen) but the only thing keeping foldables from being mainstream is the price. Or if Apple released one, that would do it as well. Regardless of the price.
😂. Fair.

But there‘s a reason what you say rings true… they’d wait.. and wait.. and wait until they could make something foldable compelling enough. It’s not enough to just have an Apple logo on it to sell.
 
You haven't seen it. You haven't tried it. Yet you've concluded it's not read for primetime. You've given us no explanation for your proclamation. Why is it not ready? How would you make it ready for primetime. Many, many people will buy it, including myself. It's an exciting product and I want to be a part of it. If you can't afford it, I understand, but don't bash it because of it.
You are absolutely right, and neither have you! I am going by reviewers, a few actually calling it a yucky product. I am an Apple fanboy, I just do not jump on the bus easily anyway.

And you are wrong… many, many people will not buy it - just like many many people did not buy the wheels for the Mac Pro, or the Pro Display XDR. $3,500 for a product which is not getting that great reviews, and which is still lacking a real world usage case.

If I felt differently I could easily afford it, just like I could about most other Apple products out there.
 
Last edited:
What happens if somebody else’s hands enter the field of view of your Vision Pro and start making recognizable gestures, either deliberately or accidentally? Can it determine which are the users hands and which are not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacWiz_007
I'm curious about two things that haven't been mentioned yet in most reviews I've read so far.

1) Can the Vision Pro be shared between users? Or is it a single user device like an iPhone or iPad. I would assume the latter, except that I can share my Quest 2 with the rest of my household.

2) How well does the eye tracking work if you're missing an eye, or have a lazy eye? How well does the gesture interface work if you're missing an arm? People with one arm can click, but they can't zoom?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacWiz_007
I'm curious about two things that haven't been mentioned yet in most reviews I've read so far.

1) Can the Vision Pro be shared between users? Or is it a single user device like an iPhone or iPad. I would assume the latter, except that I can share my Quest 2 with the rest of my household.

2) How well does the eye tracking work if you're missing an eye, or have a lazy eye? How well does the gesture interface work if you're missing an arm? People with one arm can click, but they can't zoom?
No idea about 1, but Apple has a WWDC session “Create accessible spatial experiences” about all the accessibility features built in.

Motor impairments start at 16:10 in the video.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Onelifenofear
Has anyone thought about this? Let us all think of 10 most favourite Apps in your iPhone or Mac or Apps that you use everyday. For me there are Calm, Pixelmator, Instagram, Stoic. Now imagine if the developer rebuild these apps into 3D version for Vision Pro. That would be so amazing to see the different atmosphere for meditation from Calm, manipulating photos with hands directly in Pixelmator, browsing human size photos like in Instagram gallery, Stoic transforms into a mountain cabin with fireplace complete with desk to write journal and a classic vinyl player and so on. And this new way of interacting with apps is almost limitless. Any Apps can be transformed into reality mode.
 
I find it amusing that the same folks who ripped Samsung for creating a foldable phone (gimmick, desperate, solution in search of a problem, etc.) are the same ones talking about how awesome and courageous Apple is now that they've released an AR/VR headset. And they're entering late into a collapsing, disaster of a product space no less. Samsung has sold more foldable phones in one year than all AR/VR headsets combined over the past 7-8 years, btw.
And yet I have still never seen a foldy phone outside of a store. It does seem intuitive that folding tablets might someday be a thing, but not clear the technology can support that at viable prices points yet.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.