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The iGentleman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 13, 2012
543
0
I believe he said "Navigon", which is an app I also own -- in the present, and for some time now. Like many other GPS's, it can provide an ETA based on _current_ traffic data.

I believe his point, is that he is a big boy, and is capable, and in the good habit of, checking this for himself for appointments. Who knows ... he might actually wipe his butt all by himself too ...

Not saying this isn't a "neat" feature, but I think you missed his point of some poeples sense of it's importance in the overall scheme of things.

PS - I think people here are putting a bit too much weight on just how accurate traffic data can be "predicted". There are many ways that for that to go wrong.

He said his "Navigon GPS". Even if he did mean an app, that's still no reason to downplay the convenience of automation. Using that line of thought, it's not useful to be able to look up phone numbers on my phone, because I can use a phone book just as easily. Why use an alarm on the phone, when I can set an alarm clock like a big boy? Just because you can do something yourself manually, doesn't mean something being done automatically isn't a good or useful thing. One thing's for certain, not being notified of a delay ahead of time could never hurt, but not being made aware of said delay could certainly prove to be problematic. Only on this site would a person find fault with something like that. Funny thing is, if it were Apple that released something like that, that same guy would be all over talking about how revolutionary it is. But I guess for some people (like that guy), if Apple doesn't make it, then it's not good.

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Sure, if the OP changes the thread title to "This is Another Reason Google Now is Cool" or "Check Out This New Navigation Feature". But that's not what he said.

If you disagree (which you're entitled to), then please tell me what's better. Certainly not Siri, so I'd love to hear what you think can outmatch the level of functionality and usefulness of Google Now...and please don't do like that one other guy and start talking about a GPS and such.

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My hope is that Google updates the new Google Now and Voice Search the same way the do with their other apps as YouTube and Maps: via the Play Store.

Siri, on the other hand, needs to wait for each iOS update to receive new features.

It would be very cool if Google Now and Voice Search receive updates during the year to add functionality.

It will. It replaces voice search, and is part of the Google suite, meaning it will be an updated app like the other parts of the Google suite. I can't wait to see what other functionality they add to it.

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Jesus man this is pretty simple.

You go to work EVERYDAY, it learns that you go to work everyday, it will tell you traffic before you leave at 8AM, you can specify your work address so it knows for sure the address or you can let it learn on its own.

If you have a meeting along your day in your calendar with an Address it will tell you the traffic on the way when it's close to the meeting.

I'm not sure if your being purposefully obtuse, or what cause this has been explained many times throughout the thread.

Exactly!
 

onthecouchagain

macrumors 604
Mar 29, 2011
7,382
2
If this was an iOS feature, you'd bet Batting would get it right away, then promptly be touting its awesomeness. But if it's from Google, only a minor acknowledgment tempered with an undertone of it's-pretty-unnecessary attitude.

Love it.
 

zbarvian

macrumors 68010
Jul 23, 2011
2,004
2
Sure, if the OP changes the thread title to "This is Another Reason Google Now is Cool" or "Check Out This New Navigation Feature". But that's not what he said.



To me, this is a gee-whiz feature that doesn't come close to overriding all the annoyances I have with my work Android phone. Sorry if you find that "ridiculous". If it bothers you that much, maybe you can take it to the AndroidRumors forum?

My apologies for trying to end the nonsense in this thread. Please, continue nitpicking and trying to relate your irrelevant woes with Android to this thread.

I'm an Apple loyalist, but at least I can just admit that this is a neat feature, and agree with the OP in that regard.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
PS - I think people here are putting a bit too much weight on just how accurate traffic data can be "predicted". There are many ways that for that to go wrong.

Interesting point.

This makes me wonder what impact traffic data aggregated from all iOS users will have on making traffic data more accurate, reliable and predictable in Maps, and iOS6.

Given the ubiquitous nature of the iPhone, it should make for one hell of a global pathfinder network.
 

iEvolution

macrumors 65816
Jul 11, 2008
1,432
2
Pretty freakin sweet to be honest, I'd love to have that, especially for post-work traffic.

Though there are variables it cant predict, there would have to be at least a slight delay when google gets the info and when it sends to you, plus it couldnt predict how fast you drive.
 

The iGentleman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 13, 2012
543
0
Interesting point.

This makes me wonder what impact traffic data aggregated from all iOS users will have on making traffic data more accurate, reliable and predictable in Maps, and iOS6.

Given the ubiquitous nature of the iPhone, it should make for one hell of a global pathfinder network.

Really I don't think you will see much difference. If Apple does indeed get their traffic data only from users then I think it will have the potential of either being as good, or possibly not as good as Google's. The reason I say that is because Google currently gets their traffic data from a combination of 3rd party sources and Android users, so if Apple only uses one source I think it at best match it, and at worse come up a little shorter. Hopefully Apple also will employ 3rd party providers in addition to iPhone owners, that way the traffic data will be more reliable.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
Really I don't think you will see much difference. If Apple does indeed get their traffic data only from users then I think it will have the potential of either being as good, or possibly not as good as Google's. The reason I say that is because Google currently gets their traffic data from a combination of 3rd party sources and Android users, so if Apple only uses one source I think it at best match it, and at worse come up a little shorter. Hopefully Apple also will employ 3rd party providers in addition to iPhone owners, that way the traffic data will be more reliable.

I don't know what Google's 3rd party sources are, but I do know the best intelligence always comes from engaged assets on the ground.

If nothing else, we know without question iOS users are engaged with their devices and tend to dominate all usage and consumption charts. Traffic data will be the same, and Apple's data pool will be among the largest on the planet very quickly.
 

The iGentleman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 13, 2012
543
0
I don't know what Google's 3rd party sources are, but I do know the best intelligence always comes from engaged assets on the ground.

If nothing else, we know without question iOS users are engaged with their devices and tend to dominate all usage and consumption charts. Traffic data will be the same, and Apple's data pool will be among the largest on the planet very quickly.

I think you may be confused to how traffic is gauged via users. It doesn't matter about their consumption or usage. That has no bearing at all. Basically, if they are opted in (which most people probably will be, just like on Android), then their phone will periodically anonymously relay information back to Apple's servers. I believe the guys on Mac Rumors like to call it data mining lol. But your phone will send Apple the data it needs to determine traffic without you doing anything on your end. Basically when they see a certain amount of users in an area that is congested, they will be able to tell by the way those user's are moving (or lack of movement). It appears to be the exact same concept Google employs now. The only difference is, Apple has made no mention of having any 3rd parties help. Perhaps Tom Tom will, since they are partnering with them on the maps. If they don't get any third party help, there simply aren't enough iPhone users out there to get nearly the same amount of traffic data as Google. That said, I'm sure Apple doesn't intend to go it alone. I would think they are smarter than that.
 

ChazUK

macrumors 603
Feb 3, 2008
5,393
25
Essex (UK)
Traffic data will be the same, and Apple's data pool will be among the largest on the planet very quickly.

Aren't we forgetting only the 4s supports the new mapping system by Apple?

400 million Android activations were touted at Google I/O, and as GPS is a requirement to be included in the Google apps suite, (almost - excluding hacked Kindle's e.t.c) every single one of those devices will be compatible with Google Maps.

From the updated Android compatibility requirements:
http://static.googleusercontent.com...com/en//compatibility/4.1/android-4.1-cdd.pdf

7.3.3. GPS
Device implementations SHOULD include a GPS receiver. If a device implementation does include a GPS receiver,
it SHOULD include some form of "assisted GPS" technique to minimize GPS lock-on time.

That's quite some data pool if you ask me.
 

The iGentleman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 13, 2012
543
0
Aren't we forgetting only the 4s supports the new mapping system by Apple?

400 million Android activations were touted at Google I/O, and as GPS is a requirement to be included in the Google apps suite, (almost - excluding hacked Kindle's e.t.c) every single one of those devices will be compatible with Google Maps.

From the updated Android compatibility requirements:
http://static.googleusercontent.com...com/en//compatibility/4.1/android-4.1-cdd.pdf



That's quite some data pool if you ask me.

To be fair, it's only the 4S that will get access to the 3d maps. The 4 will still have access to maps, just not Flyover from my understanding. One thing though is certain, Apple will most definitely have the 4's reporting their locations just like the 4S'. The thing I'm interested in knowing is if Apple will be getting 3rd part assistance with traffic or do they intend on relying 100% on the user base. If they intend on relying soley on the user base, there is no way they will be able to as much traffic data as Google. Google will even show traffic on small surface streets. Google wouldn't be able to accomplish that without the help of 3rd parties, and Google has WAY more Android owners out there than Apple. That said, if Apple chooses to go it alone, their traffic reporting will not be very good at all.
 

urkel

macrumors 68030
Nov 3, 2008
2,795
917
Wow, thats honestly a pretty incredible feature. I can't wait until Apple invents it.
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,431
557
Sydney, Australia
You know what happened the other day? Google Now somehow worked out the location of my work and I have never been prompted for it - It was accurate... actually a little creepy :D

It also worked out that I was on the bus i get to that work address and provided me with an ETA mid journey with no input from myself.
 

revelated

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2010
994
2
Jesus man this is pretty simple.

You go to work EVERYDAY, it learns that you go to work everyday, it will tell you traffic before you leave at 8AM, you can specify your work address so it knows for sure the address or you can let it learn on its own.

If you have a meeting along your day in your calendar with an Address it will tell you the traffic on the way when it's close to the meeting.

I'm not sure if your being purposefully obtuse, or what cause this has been explained many times throughout the thread.

The way you explained this is about 30% accurate, FYI. But that's not your fault.

There are three things we're talking about here. I'll talk about them in pieces and give them my own naming so as to separate them clearly.


Google Now - Predictive Traffic

Pops up a card with a map showing traffic between destination points. If you're at Point A it will show you traffic to Point B, and vice versa. This happens automatically, you are not required to do anything to make this start happening (unless you disabled the card). However, it will only get these points exactly right if you set the two addresses (i.e. Home and Work) in your Location settings. What I found is that without the addresses, it took a more general view; for example, I live in Bothell and work in Seattle, so it did a navigation from city to city rather than from even approximate addresses. When I gave it the addresses it then gave more accurate results. It MIGHT have done better with more time, but I would then consider that a deficiency since GPS knows my exact start and terminating locations.

It seems to pop the card regardless of the time of day and just checks traffic conditions throughout the day regardless of use. This is a downright battery killer if you're not on Wi-Fi. Like right now I'm sitting at home on the weekend, no work, yet it's showing me the work commute.


Google Now - Scheduled Commute Traffic

Pops up a card with a map showing traffic between your current location and where you need to be based on what appointments are in your Google Calendar (it may also look at your Mail calendar, but it won't look at other calendars, i.e. Touchdown. I don't use the Mail calendar because it gives too much power to the employer to literally wipe my entire phone. If I get a Nexus 7 I will test this because then it won't matter). This card can often confuse with the other card if the infrastructure in your area is poor.

For example, there are technically three roads I could take to get to work. One is shorter but has a toll that I refuse to pay, so I take a different freeway which ends up being longer but depending on what time I leave may end up being basically the same time to get there. Predictive Traffic learned that I repeatedly take this route and so will show me the traffic along the alternate freeway, but the Scheduled Commute Traffic will *always* pick the shortest route even if it's not what you want to do and even if functionally there is another route that would get you there at the same time without paying the toll. Just the other day it told me to take the toll bridge and pay $3.40 to get to Seattle in 30 minutes rather than just take the I-5 to get to Seattle in 30 minutes. Huh?

There's currently no way to give Google Now instructions to avoid tolls or avoid highways, so I don't use this that much at all.


Google Now - Scheduled Commute Notifications

This is a cool feature but fundamentally flawed, again, based on poor infrastructure.

Using the Scheduled Commute Traffic logic, this will pop a notification to you and "guess" how long in advance you should leave your current destination to get to your final destination based on assumed travel time given all factors detected. The problem I found is that in Western Washington it's wrong 100% of the time because the traffic conditions fluctuate too fast for Google to keep up with. This is because the infrastructure is so bad that there aren't ways to get around problems on the freeway. The I-5 is especially a problem.

For example, from my location I have to drive 10 minutes north on 405 to get to 5 south. During that 10 minute drive I might very well be looking at normal flowing traffic on the 5, but let's say a bus enters the freeway. It has to jam up traffic cramming over to the express lane before the flow improves again. Multiply that by 5 (since we have frequent buses), add in taxis, carpools, motorcycles, and cops and you end up with a problem within minutes. By the time I get there, it's heavy traffic. Another problem is accidents, if there are ANY accidents on either side of the freeway, traffic will choke horribly and suddenly, between people who don't know how to react and look-e-loos. Again, there is no way to avoid this catastrophe in certain stretches and there aren't enough offramps for alternate travel.

So assuming the traffic flow remains consistent, the estimate is accurate, i.e. in a better infrastructure, I should be able to reach Seattle in no more than 30 minutes. But because the infrastructure is poor and the traffic flow fluctuates so rapidly that Google can't keep up with it, it will tell you that leaving 30 minutes early is perfectly acceptable but your commute ends up being an hour. (mind you, this is a 19-mile distance). In a metro like San Diego where they have invested many millions of dollars developing a freeway system that properly manages traffic, this estimate is probably spot on (didn't get a chance to test it before I moved out).




The other things Google Now does:
  • Weather card for forecasts
  • Public transportation schedules as you get near to or pass bus stops and terminals
  • Locations to check in (Google Latitude/Google+) as you pass them, restaurants, bars, etc.
  • Sports scores and outcomes based on frequent searches for the same (Have never seen this because I don't search sports and it doesn't apparently count boxing)
 

iosuser

macrumors 65816
Mar 12, 2012
1,005
753
I should have known you'd show up on this post and try to minimize what happened. :rolleyes:

I think that's the same poster who insists performing a task with 5 clicks on ios is no more tedious than a single press on Android :rolleyes:

That is a very cool feature, I'd never got to try it before I switched to an S3. Not too late though as I still have both the Gnex and S3 :D

Just thinking to myself aloud here, after updating to Safari 6 it no longer auto-correct ios to iOS.
 

batting1000

macrumors 604
Sep 4, 2011
7,464
1,874
Florida
To be fair, it's only the 4S that will get access to the 3d maps. The 4 will still have access to maps, just not Flyover from my understanding. One thing though is certain, Apple will most definitely have the 4's reporting their locations just like the 4S'. The thing I'm interested in knowing is if Apple will be getting 3rd part assistance with traffic or do they intend on relying 100% on the user base. If they intend on relying soley on the user base, there is no way they will be able to as much traffic data as Google. Google will even show traffic on small surface streets. Google wouldn't be able to accomplish that without the help of 3rd parties, and Google has WAY more Android owners out there than Apple. That said, if Apple chooses to go it alone, their traffic reporting will not be very good at all.

Sure, the 3GS, 4, and 4S will all be getting the new Maps, but only the 4S and later will be receiving the turn by turn, flyover, and 3D. Having said that, the 4 and 3GS will still get the new Map data and such but will use the old way of directions (just showing the different routes) without the turn by turn and voice.

In addition, Apple did say during WWDC that they will have a public transit API that debs can take advantage of and Apple would promote and feature apps that use it. I'm sure they will do traffic similar to other GPS system do it like standalone devices and Google Nav.
 

batting1000

macrumors 604
Sep 4, 2011
7,464
1,874
Florida
I think that's the same poster who insists performing a task with 5 clicks on ios is no more tedious than a single press on Android :rolleyes:

That is a very cool feature, I'd never got to try it before I switched to an S3. Not too late though as I still have both the Gnex and S3 :D

Just thinking to myself aloud here, after updating to Safari 6 it no longer auto-correct ios to iOS.

Probably the only thing I have to do 5 clicks for is adding a photo to an email (fixed in iOS 6). That's about it.
 

iosuser

macrumors 65816
Mar 12, 2012
1,005
753
Those batting and nuckin guys are the biggest Apple apologist around here.

Just wanted to state the obvious :p

Maybe you didn't read my response to you before. If you have an appointment scheduled it doesn't have to learn the route. It calculates the best route automatically.

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I wouldn't pay him any mind, he's obviously reaching...big time. For him to even hint that a gps does the same thing is asinine at best.



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I often receive exchange and personal meeting requests/appointments which populate in my calendars. Nothing manually added by me at all.

You obviously use your smartphone differently to me.
EXACTLY! Same here. Often times, I don't have to put my meetings in my phone, the request comes in and it's added.[/QUOTE]
 

Sensamic

macrumors 68040
Mar 26, 2010
3,072
689
I think anyone can admit that these are exciting times for Android, and not so much (if at all) for the iOS world: 4 inch screen? Too late and not that big of a deal. Quad core? Too late. NFC? Too late. 4G? Again, too late. Ios 6? Boring.

Just read the comments here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1412842/

More than 50/60% of the people though iOS 6 was dissapointing, probably even more. On the other hand, ICS and JB have made huge advances to android.

Google Now, the new Voice Search, Project Butter, NFC, quad cores, big HD screens and more compared to what? Facebook integration, new Siri commands, a 4 inch taller screen and an inferior Maps solution?

Some of the new features in iOS 6 could and should have been implemented before, like attaching files directly from the Mail app and inside Safari. Why now and not on iOS 5 or 5.1.1 (which was another worthless update)?

Google Navigation is available to every android device while apples turn by turn is only available in the 4S. Google Now and new Voice search will be available on every device that updates to JB, while Siri is only available on the 4S (and coming to the iPad 3).

Seems to me that Apple likes fragmentation more than Google...
 
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jeffe

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2008
601
50
I don't know what Google's 3rd party sources are, but I do know the best intelligence always comes from engaged assets on the ground.

If nothing else, we know without question iOS users are engaged with their devices and tend to dominate all usage and consumption charts. Traffic data will be the same, and Apple's data pool will be among the largest on the planet very quickly.

I'm not sure of all of Google's sources but I know Android phones are one of the sources for google traffic information and data is transmitted unless you opt-out.

For me, It is has been amazingly accurate. While driving, I'll enter stop and go traffic exactly where google shows the street turning green to red. The ETA time is almost always accurate for me, usually within 0-2 minutes and this is driving 30+ minutes through varying traffic and the time is given to me even before I pull out of my driveway.
 

batting1000

macrumors 604
Sep 4, 2011
7,464
1,874
Florida
I think anyone can admit that these are exciting times for Android, and not so much (if at all) for the iOS world: 4 inch screen? Too late and not that big of a deal. Quad core? Too late. NFC? Too late. 4G? Again, too late. Ios 6? Boring.

Here's a perfect example. Sensamic can't accept the fact that just because HE doesn't like iOS 6 or thinks features are "too late", doesn't mean everyone dones. I don't care who you poll or who you ask about, but if you're gonna try to go around and post as though you're trying to dissuade people from using a certain platform because of your opinions and preconceived notions, you shouldn't really be here. The fact that you're saying iOS is too late is funny when the Nexus S was the first NFC Android device (every manufacturer that released an NFC device after the Nexus was too late as well, same with all the other features).

Again, the fact that you're going around talking all this nonsense is rather irritating.
 
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Vegastouch

macrumors 603
Jul 12, 2008
6,185
992
Las Vegas, NV
Lol. Just because I like iOS better because it works for me better doesn't mean I have an excuse for everything. Some just can't accept that iOS works for some and not others..

But you do have an excuse for everything and you just said what you cant accept. iOS is a great device and ive always said that and some things it does do better. It just doesnt do enough and Android has caught up and surpassed in some aspects. THAT, you cant accept and always have a reason why Android isnt better at it.

I am not a diehard Android lover. I like it now as the best device and i love my GS3. Will be even better when it gets JB.
It is as big as i want to go and really could be a tad smaller but i can work it just fine. The iPhone IMO is still going to be too small. It should be at least a 4.3" in screen size if not 4.5". If they go to that size and get better notifications ansd more open, i may someday go back but it just seems that Android makes more progress every year so i dont see Apple catching up.
 
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