Thank you Samut and Jericho... I’ll check these when I get my 12 in hand.
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Other This is why I will not buy iPhone 12: OLED = PWM
- Thread starter lillo9546
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This has been good information and dialogue.
I can say that I have not felt the symptoms like I did with the X ie: instant eye strain/headache. Honestly it was probably a mix of self induced anxiety and I’m not one who is always dealing with anxiety, BUT I’m still making sure it’s not something else like soft dizziness meaning it’s not as obvious but you feel something. Lol
I did try the reduce white point and that seems to help in general so at night I will do that. It’s still so interesting that Android didn’t bother me at all, the pixel 4XL and S10 plus but I read about the differences.
I can say that I have not felt the symptoms like I did with the X ie: instant eye strain/headache. Honestly it was probably a mix of self induced anxiety and I’m not one who is always dealing with anxiety, BUT I’m still making sure it’s not something else like soft dizziness meaning it’s not as obvious but you feel something. Lol
I did try the reduce white point and that seems to help in general so at night I will do that. It’s still so interesting that Android didn’t bother me at all, the pixel 4XL and S10 plus but I read about the differences.
I’m here to join the saga.
I’ve retuned the X and XS because of headaches, eyestrain, and nausea. Tried the 11PM and could handle it. Or maybe I told myself I could. Sold it after about four months.
Here I am again. No learning curve whatsoever. I have a 12P, and it’s delightful. But I’m feeling all the symptoms again. And I wish I knew if it was the phone, the anxiety, the weather. I’m just over getting new phones and having issues. I’m typing this on my 8+
I’ve retuned the X and XS because of headaches, eyestrain, and nausea. Tried the 11PM and could handle it. Or maybe I told myself I could. Sold it after about four months.
Here I am again. No learning curve whatsoever. I have a 12P, and it’s delightful. But I’m feeling all the symptoms again. And I wish I knew if it was the phone, the anxiety, the weather. I’m just over getting new phones and having issues. I’m typing this on my 8+
Do you find that even when you go back to your 8+, you have trouble for some time?
Just curious, because with myself, I really started to wonder if it was all in my head, so to speak. Two years ago I upgraded from a 7 to an XS- loved the phone, had read about PWM headaches/eye strain with OLED displays, and I started to have some of those symptoms with that phone. After two weeks I decided to return it and got an 8+ instead. Even though that was obviously an LCD with no PWM, I continued having issues for a solid month. That made no sense, other than maybe it was just the larger screen with more light that was bothering me?
A year later I upgraded from the 8+ to a regular 11, and again had eye pain that seemed to start with the move to the 11.... again it made no sense, it was LCD, no PWM involved- but maybe it was the even bigger, sharper, brighter screen? Hard to say! That lasted for a month or more, as I tried turning off FaceID and awareness features, bringing brightness way down, getting a privacy screen saver which took just a bit of the edge off the bright display. After all of that it seemed to be better, with off and on bouts of minor issues.
Now here we are with the 12 coming out....I really want a 12 mini, it is the perfect shape and size, and has a beautiful display- but I am so confused as to whether I have an actual issue with PWM, of it is just in my head and either way, I will have issues either way- and won't know if I need to return it after 14 days or can just go ahead and keep it. Very frustrating...
At this point I am just hoping to see Notebookcheck's measurements to see if the PWM frequency is maybe higher this time around than the previous OLED phones- which would give me some confidence that it will not cause problems.
Just got my 12 Pro working and love the brighter display.
Had to turn is down some...
Now waiting for my Belkin Anti Glare screen for it and it will be useful outdoors without the reflection which hurts my eyes...
Had to turn is down some...
Now waiting for my Belkin Anti Glare screen for it and it will be useful outdoors without the reflection which hurts my eyes...
Your story resonates with me in many ways. I’ve mentioned in pwm threads before that I question if my case is more mental. The mind can do some wild things if you hyper focus. I wish I’d never known about pwm prior to the XS Max. I skipped the X because I hated the size and went 8 Plus launch day. So, by the time the XS Max was released there was already a 100-page thread on pwm. I was nervous about being one of the affected from the moment I took the wrapper off that box.
I also felt strain with the regular 11 when I got it several months ago. I thought maybe it was the smaller text, the lower resolution, or possibly in my head. But, after I just relaxed and allowed the 14 day window to pass, I’ve had zero issue since. I’m hoping that’s the same case for me with the 12 Pro Max. But I’ll have to get out of my own head before I’ll ever know if I’m truly affected by PWM.
It's a nasty source of discomfort because it's so dependant on mood / tiredness / motion / stress and by it's very nature is also rather subliminal and intangible.
It *is* real and it *is* unhealthy, in some cases maybe even dangerous if your brain has a particular reaction to it.
But my experience has shown that it can be possible for the brain to adjust and accept it slowly and over time - for me with low frequency PWM on some LED screens it can take 1 or 2 months...if it's still uncomfortable after that time then it always will be.
OLED is a bit harder and because I value my health above all else, I totally avoid them unless they're already proven to be PWM-free.
In the meantime there's absolutely no point in getting stressed / anxious about it. It's just a damn phone, right? You can simply give the thing back before 14 days, or probably even sell it for a very small hit after a couple of months.
It *is* real and it *is* unhealthy, in some cases maybe even dangerous if your brain has a particular reaction to it.
But my experience has shown that it can be possible for the brain to adjust and accept it slowly and over time - for me with low frequency PWM on some LED screens it can take 1 or 2 months...if it's still uncomfortable after that time then it always will be.
OLED is a bit harder and because I value my health above all else, I totally avoid them unless they're already proven to be PWM-free.
In the meantime there's absolutely no point in getting stressed / anxious about it. It's just a damn phone, right? You can simply give the thing back before 14 days, or probably even sell it for a very small hit after a couple of months.
Well definitely doing well on my 12 Pro so far. Same as with my 11 Pro. I wish I could see a regular 12 display.
For those of your worried it’s all in your head, I’m hyper aware of the issue. And yet even I found two OLED iPhones now that work for me. And not all pwm knocks me out of commission, even if I can see it and be annoyed by it, like on my Pixel2 screen. So I’m pretty sure it’s a neurological health issue and not a psychological health issue. And my cat just threw up a hair ball and derailed my train of thought so I’ll leave it right there as I go to get some paper towels. Sigh.
For those of your worried it’s all in your head, I’m hyper aware of the issue. And yet even I found two OLED iPhones now that work for me. And not all pwm knocks me out of commission, even if I can see it and be annoyed by it, like on my Pixel2 screen. So I’m pretty sure it’s a neurological health issue and not a psychological health issue. And my cat just threw up a hair ball and derailed my train of thought so I’ll leave it right there as I go to get some paper towels. Sigh.
Very true! For me my past purchases were through carriers, and that meant a $40 restocking fee when returning or exchanging the phone- so that was some pressure, I hated to do that and take that kind of a hit.
This time around if I do test out an iPhone 12, I will buy an unlocked version from Apple, so I can simply return no questions asked after 14 days if there are problems.
However as explained in the experiences above, 14 days may not be long enough to really see if the body adjusts, or if it is just all in my head, etc.
But between now and when the mini comes out I hope to see some actual data on the PWM frequency with the 12/12 Pro, and that will help in deciding if it is worth trying out, or if it is a waste of time and to just stick with my 11.
Things would and do get better when I use (go back) to the 8+ or the SE 2020. After a while I forget that phones can cause me problems.
I tried the 11, and it worked. I might have had issues, but I also turned off Attention Awareness and used Reduce White Point (more so when indoors). Those things helped. I got to the point with the 11 that I didn’t associate pain with the phone.
it builds a false confidence. I start thinking hey there’s a new phone, fun, I can use that. So in my blinded excitement, I do things like sell my 11 before I get my 12P.
But yes I relate to your experience that doesn’t seem quite clear cut. The curiosity of psychosomatic experience. And the frustration with all of it. I wish you better luck than what you’ve had, and if you find a panacea, do share.
Dang. I had to clean cat puke today, too. It’s good thing those cata are soft and lovely.
Hold on. I’m sensing a theme. Put up with bad for the good...
Life hack? Rationalization? Or just the way of the world?
Lol. They’re shedding summer coats so it’s a chaotic time right now. I got it. I’m so fast at cleaning up after them now.
I will definitely share if/when I find it.Things would and do get better when I use (go back) to the 8+ or the SE 2020. After a while I forget that phones can cause me problems.
I tried the 11, and it worked. I might have had issues, but I also turned off Attention Awareness and used Reduce White Point (more so when indoors). Those things helped. I got to the point with the 11 that I didn’t associate pain with the phone.
it builds a false confidence. I start thinking hey there’s a new phone, fun, I can use that. So in my blinded excitement, I do things like sell my 11 before I get my 12P.
But yes I relate to your experience that doesn’t seem quite clear cut. The curiosity of psychosomatic experience. And the frustration with all of it. I wish you better luck than what you’ve had, and if you find a panacea, do share.
. The 11 mostly has been OK over this past year, but I occasionally have bouts where looking at it very long gives me a pain behind my left eye. I never once had that kind of issue with my 6s or my 7 when I had them- and part of me wonders if it truly is just the size of the screen, the rectangle that is shining light into my eyes is a lot bigger now than it was back then. haha
I will likely try out the 12 Mini and will share my experience here.
It was yours I read about hyper focused. The X got me, skipped XS and got the XR. Now I’m at the point where I’m cool and will ride the trial window out. It’s becoming more about color remorse now 😂. The Green 12 is nice tho.
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So... I got the 12 a few days ago, in black, its ?, I seem fine with it so I’m keeping it.
Verdict... it’s a “maybe” for any HSP (highly sensitive person). It’s gonna depend on the individual. I’ll explain...
I could tell immediately that there is PWM present, tho IMO it’s different and very mild compared to the X. I am prone to headaches, migraines, vertigo, astigmatism, eye fatigue, and can’t wear polarized glasses for those same reasons.
The LCD screens on XR/11 are definitely much calmer/soothing on the eyes/brain compared to the 12.
Brightness, Face ID, Awareness features and screen tones could matter for you. Full brightness for me was not comfortable and presented as pressure in back of my eyes/forehead. So I run screen between 50%-75% brightness and use a red filter for lowering blue light during day or wear my Oakley sunglasses using it, then use night shift and occasionally white point reduction at night if I am tired or more sensitive to the screen certain days.
I use Face ID and am testing the awareness features on/off to see how I respond.
I really do ? the 12 a lot, its noticeably lighter, feels better in the hand, my thumb can reach across screen, flat edges make it more secure in hand and it works stellar... My carrier has some amazing trade-in deals and I figure worse case scenario if I develop unbearable symptoms, I can sell it and buy an 11, but so far it’s been fine for me.
Verdict... it’s a “maybe” for any HSP (highly sensitive person). It’s gonna depend on the individual. I’ll explain...
I could tell immediately that there is PWM present, tho IMO it’s different and very mild compared to the X. I am prone to headaches, migraines, vertigo, astigmatism, eye fatigue, and can’t wear polarized glasses for those same reasons.
The LCD screens on XR/11 are definitely much calmer/soothing on the eyes/brain compared to the 12.
Brightness, Face ID, Awareness features and screen tones could matter for you. Full brightness for me was not comfortable and presented as pressure in back of my eyes/forehead. So I run screen between 50%-75% brightness and use a red filter for lowering blue light during day or wear my Oakley sunglasses using it, then use night shift and occasionally white point reduction at night if I am tired or more sensitive to the screen certain days.
I use Face ID and am testing the awareness features on/off to see how I respond.
I really do ? the 12 a lot, its noticeably lighter, feels better in the hand, my thumb can reach across screen, flat edges make it more secure in hand and it works stellar... My carrier has some amazing trade-in deals and I figure worse case scenario if I develop unbearable symptoms, I can sell it and buy an 11, but so far it’s been fine for me.
That is awesome, I am glad to hear that this has been OK for you so far! If it has been several days so far, I would assume you are good to go by this point.
Someone posted in another thread that they emailed Notebookcheck to ask when they are going to take a look at the 12 and publish official results on PWM frequency- they said they are going to be publishing their test results next week! It will be great to see what they find.
I think I have OLED PWM sensitivity- I bought an XS two years ago and started having eye pain and mild headaches.
I returned it after a couple of weeks and moved to an 8+, and weirdly I had the same symptoms for a full month before it all went away. I still don't know if it was just sensitivity to moving to a new bigger display from my previous phone (a 7), or what.
I now have an 11, and it is mostly OK.... but I am really, really interested in the iPhone 12 Mini. I am hoping that PWM frequency is improved so it won't be so bad, and that the smaller display will mean less trouble since it is a smaller surface area of light shining into my eyes- I still don't know if it is just the sharpness of the light or what that bothers me.
I will really be interested in what Notebookcheck finds on the 12 next week, and I will roll the dice on ordering a 12 Mini next Friday. If it causes consistent problems for a couple of weeks, I will return it and just go back to the 11 that I have. But I have been really wanting a smaller phone/screen again, so fingers crossed that the mini will not be a problem for me.
I returned it after a couple of weeks and moved to an 8+, and weirdly I had the same symptoms for a full month before it all went away. I still don't know if it was just sensitivity to moving to a new bigger display from my previous phone (a 7), or what.
I now have an 11, and it is mostly OK.... but I am really, really interested in the iPhone 12 Mini. I am hoping that PWM frequency is improved so it won't be so bad, and that the smaller display will mean less trouble since it is a smaller surface area of light shining into my eyes- I still don't know if it is just the sharpness of the light or what that bothers me.
I will really be interested in what Notebookcheck finds on the 12 next week, and I will roll the dice on ordering a 12 Mini next Friday. If it causes consistent problems for a couple of weeks, I will return it and just go back to the 11 that I have. But I have been really wanting a smaller phone/screen again, so fingers crossed that the mini will not be a problem for me.
I can definitely tell a difference and am running my new iPhone 12 between 50-75%... thanks for the tip ?
Thanks, I’m hoping the 12 keeps being fine for me.
FYI... If you take a different phone, open camera and aim at your screen, it will show PWM if it’s present.
Someone said Belkin makes a screen protector in anti glare and blocks % blue light... an option.
Yeah, I went to a store last Sunday and looked at the regular 12, I used my iphone 11 to take video of the display in slow mo- at all brightness levels, even at 100% you can see pretty clear flicker. The only unknown is what the frequency is, to determine how bad it might be for those of us who are (or potentially are) sensitive.
Thanks for the advice on the screen protectors! If I do get the mini I might look into that, for the anti glare and the blue light blocking.
The sharp light from even the bigger lcd on my 11 was kind of bothering me, and I ended up getting a privacy screen protector that just took the edge off of it a bit (even at low brightness it seemed a bit piercing), so who knows, maybe I would consider one of those....
Thanks for your follow up with your experience. That black does look nice.
I’ve been ok so I will keep my 12, maybe switch colors lol. I have the mint green, the cliche Blue does look nice.
My thing is, can PWM be a silent enemy? No affects like I had with the X but could it harm us without knowing?
Glad your enjoying your phone though ?
Add me to the list, cannot get on with them for more than a few minutes. First time I noticed was a few years ago with a Oneplus branded OLED phone which made me so dizzy I couldn't get out of the chair 😲 this is a very real issue for some people.
Unfortunately for me the Apple phones with OLED to date have been off my shopping list, I will be watching user reports on the 12 closely to see if I will have to wait a while longer or stick with non OLED phones for now.
Unfortunately for me the Apple phones with OLED to date have been off my shopping list, I will be watching user reports on the 12 closely to see if I will have to wait a while longer or stick with non OLED phones for now.
Current rumours suggest there may be a new iPhone to replace the XR in March 2021 (the “SE Plus” for lack of a better name)
one of the purported test designs is one that crosses the new iPad Air 4 language (single front camera and Touch ID button) with the XR body l, using the same LCD tech as the XR and 11 sans notch, plus hole cutout
Hopefully this offers an alternative option for those who suffer from PWM. It’s not ideal, but LCD seems to be slim pickings across any flagship brand so at least Apple has some options for those who are affected.
one of the purported test designs is one that crosses the new iPad Air 4 language (single front camera and Touch ID button) with the XR body l, using the same LCD tech as the XR and 11 sans notch, plus hole cutout
Hopefully this offers an alternative option for those who suffer from PWM. It’s not ideal, but LCD seems to be slim pickings across any flagship brand so at least Apple has some options for those who are affected.
I don’t suffer from this issue but I feel really sorry for those of you that do. Must be very frustrating.
For what it’s worth, Apple will likely be moving to mini led displays in the next couple of years so that might be your answer.
For what it’s worth, Apple will likely be moving to mini led displays in the next couple of years so that might be your answer.