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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
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The price proposition comes down to value of money right? You won’t expect a house to be available for £1000, simply because people think it’s absurd.

This a really poor example. You can’t compare the housing market to a smart phone, those are two things are not even mutually exclusive. The value of money isn’t necessarily changing against the smart phone world, it’s the smart phones that are increasing in price that are keeping consumers holding onto their devices longer because they do everything they need them to, and these new features that the latest iPhones are boasting with Animoji, TrueDepth Camera, etc. are not enough for someone to want to upgrade their phone.

Someone who considers upgrading to an $1100 iPhone, should consider not just the monthly payment, but the iPhone as a whole, and is it completely necessary to upgrade the phone based on what they [need versus want]. Those are the things I would consider.
 
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ApplePersonFreak

macrumors 65816
Sep 23, 2016
1,062
520
$1,535.94

That's approximately how much you'll fork over for the high-capacity XS Max, a phone that doesn't perform much better than your current model.

The bottom line is that the price is too high.

Yep, exactly. I can buy an iMac or a MBP for that money. My X works great and if I did upgrade next year, I’d be getting the next gen XR unless they lower the price.
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,724
13,244
UK
I’m not picking on you, but this a poor example. You can’t compare the housing market to a smart phone, those are two things are not even mutually exclusive. The value of money isn’t necessarily changing against the smart phone world, it’s the smart phones that are increasing in price that are keeping consumers holding onto their devices longer because they do everything they need them to, and these new features that the latest iPhones are boasting with Animoji, TrueDepth Camera, etc. are not enough for someone to want to upgrade their phone.

Someone who considers upgrading to an $1100 iPhone, should consider not just the monthly payment, but the iPhone as a whole, and is it completely necessary to upgrade the phone based on what they [need versus want]. Those are the things I would consider.
Is s smartphone worth £1,000? If you look at all the things you can do with one then yes £1,000 might seem like a fair price. However that price is only good if you’ve never owned a smartphone or you don’t currently have one. If you already have a smartphone that does everything you need it to do then £1,000 is excessive for a new one. Moreover even though we might consider £1,000 to be a fair price you can get phones that do everything you need for much less.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
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Is s smartphone worth £1,000? If you look at all the things you can do with one then yes £1,000 might seem like a fair price.

Maybe. It depends on what someone values and what they want from a $1000 iPhone. Even so, iPhones have so many features, I don’t even use them all, but I think Apple’s iOS experience is the core reason why consumers are so faithful to the iPhone in general, which is More of a compelling reason to stay with Apple, upgrading generally happens with at the consumers leisure when they are ready.
 
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akash.nu

macrumors G4
May 26, 2016
10,870
16,998
Is s smartphone worth £1,000? If you look at all the things you can do with one then yes £1,000 might seem like a fair price. However that price is only good if you’ve never owned a smartphone or you don’t currently have one. If you already have a smartphone that does everything you need it to do then £1,000 is excessive for a new one. Moreover even though we might consider £1,000 to be a fair price you can get phones that do everything you need for much less.

That can be said for literally anything in life. If everyone went for the bare minimum to get the job done then nobody would’ve bought iPhone / any phone above the base cheap Android models.

Value is very subjective as @Relentless Power said.
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It’s all fine though as last years iPhone is much the same as this years so if Apple are scratching their heads then price is the key factor putting people off. It’s not moaning, it’s reality. If they want it to be a purely ‘luxury’ product, then it shouldn’t matter if it only attracts a niche market segment.

This! Exactly this. I think both Apple and Samsung Mobile, the only 2 major smartphone manufacturers on the planet that with a huge revenue from just that one source, have realised that the market has saturated and targettng a more premium market is better for business than going down the cheaper devices rabbit hole. Look at all the other Android manufacturers that are mainly depend on cheaper devices. They are nowhere close to the amount Apple is making by sellig one device, just in different sizes.

Ultimately as a business I believe they have more than enough resource to predict all this with real data and all the decisions made on both Sammsung and Apple end are based on real data than random shift.
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At 1k Plus it’s competing with computers. I can build a gaming PC at $1500 with high end components which offers 10x the value. The iPhone is outrageously priced. No smartphone is worth more than $1100.
This is not the point. Why is it ok to pay for over 1k for a computer but not a smartphone which is everybit capable of doing the same thing? And also why would you buy a computer for 1k when there are perfectly fine PCs available within 300 range?!

See what I mean there? Comparing such devices just does not make sense. Miniaturing technology has a cost, otherwise we will still be using room size computers.
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This a really poor example. You can’t compare the housing market to a smart phone, those are two things are not even mutually exclusive. The value of money isn’t necessarily changing against the smart phone world, it’s the smart phones that are increasing in price that are keeping consumers holding onto their devices longer because they do everything they need them to, and these new features that the latest iPhones are boasting with Animoji, TrueDepth Camera, etc. are not enough for someone to want to upgrade their phone.

Someone who considers upgrading to an $1100 iPhone, should consider not just the monthly payment, but the iPhone as a whole, and is it completely necessary to upgrade the phone based on what they [need versus want]. Those are the things I would consider.

I see the problem here being someone thinking what "should" be the norm. I mean, if one has to think 1500 times before buying a smartphone / computer then they are not in a position to buy them anyway. Electronics items are never investment, they are always depreciations.

That's why I say the word "value" means different to different people.
 
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The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,966
20,163
UK
With how sales fiqures are generally i’m Not sure much will change for all the companies going forward while all these companies are charging high prices. For tech people this is not as big of an issue for the average person who just upgrades when their contract is up is a different story.

Will apple and samsung start reducing prices? I hope so but i’m Not sure. Even if there are a lot of improvements on the phones year on year people still won’t pay the prices if they are around or above 1K.
 

Raist3001

macrumors 65816
Mar 5, 2012
1,131
882
Right behind you
That isn’t the general point of this thread though is it? Nobody doubts it’s a very good phone. It’s simply not an iPhone that is very popular though due to its price and the fact older iPhones are still performing well enough that people don’t see the incentive paying significantly more.

This is the first year I’ve seen a push by carriers to get you to buy new iPhones by offering attractive trade ins or money off the handset price with larger data plans. This may well be because the X sold so poorly in my country last year though? That said I don’t see many of these current iPhones about so your pride in owning a Max doesn’t appear to be a hugely common point of view. Enjoy you phone though as you’re clearly the target niche consumer.

I scratch my head when people believe that because someone points out poor sales, it must then follow they are also expressing that the iPhone XR/XS/MAX are bad phones.

It’s all fine though as last years iPhone is much the same as this years so if Apple are scratching their heads then price is the key factor putting people off. It’s not moaning, it’s reality. If they want it to be a purely ‘luxury’ product, then it shouldn’t matter if it only attracts a niche market segment
Totally agree. It is price that has resulted in the lag of sales of new iPhones. As you say, if apple now wises to be a luxury model, no one should expect record breaking sales moving forward.
 

Azathoth123

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2018
930
698
Fountain City
It’s important to note that there is no evidence whatever (based on past failed supply chain rumors) that iPhones are selling badly, or well for that matter. And we won’t likely know since Apple is now following Google and Samsung in no longer reporting sales numbers. So posts such as the OP are pretty much meaningless except to have a conversation.

It’s probably safe to venture that global smartphone sales are leveling off, but Apple at least was still showing modest increases compared to other companies.

https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/164739/samsung-galaxy-s9-not-selling-well-expected

The comments for the above article are worth a quick read.

High end Apple products like the 512 GB Max and the Stainless Steel Watches are selling robustly based on availability and MR user posts looking for them (the 512 XS Max seems to be more available now but for a while that overpriced failure was indeed hard to find).
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
While that might certainly be an interpretation of it all, it doesn't necessarily point to any particular scenario as to what might behind it even if that was the case.

Well, going by past history of companies that do things like this, it'd be very logical to think Apple isn't selling as many iphones as they'd like. It's not often Apple just arbitrarily decides to increase trade in values on most older iphones towards the newer iphone models. It's to bolster sales imo and it's pretty obvious. Aren't they somewhat cutting prices in Japan as well? Or at least offering higher carrier discounts there? That would point to a need to bolster sales as well.

I even saw where they basically did a marketing tactic on the Ellen talk show where they gave away the XR to the studio audience. Trying to bring more exposure to the phone.
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Well, going by past history of companies that do things like this, it'd be very logical to think Apple isn't selling as many iphones as they'd like. It's not often Apple just arbitrarily decides to increase trade in values on most older iphones towards the newer iphone models. It's to bolster sales imo and it's pretty obvious. Aren't they somewhat cutting prices in Japan as well? Or at least offering higher carrier discounts there? That would point to a need to bolster sales as well.

I even saw where they basically did a marketing tactic on the Ellen talk show where they gave away the XR to the studio audience. Trying to bring more exposure to the phone.
Well, as I mentioned, while that can certainly be the scenario at play, it doesn't necessarily reveal anything specific as to what's behind it (behid the "Apple isn't selling as many iphones as they'd like").
 

solarmon

macrumors 6502
Mar 12, 2015
257
288
This is what I’ve been saying for a little while now and keep getting blasted for it...but don’t care, if more people would take issue with how prices keep going up and using some shelved components from older models then they would have to take notice.

Money talks, I sent back my new iPad cause it was unacceptable and WAY overpriced and will be much more careful buying Apple products. I can afford them but not going to accept how they are using us now to see how much they can get from the consumer on what is only acceptable.

Sad part is that lots of people buying these overpriced products and supporting the greed can’t really afford them and going into debt.


Quality is reason they are failing too.

So the WiFi circuitry on my SE failed this week. I bought Apple Care with it. Spent better part of two days with a rep troubleshooting — and I mean incredible hoops for hours that I had to jump over, and then after uploading a ton of data, I was told: We’ll get back to you.

What? Thought about it overnight, wondered why they just didn’t replace the phone, so I called them and found out, no, your Apple Care policy expired. Only lasts two years from purchase, not at the END of the regular warranty!

Well, I will NEVER buy Apple Care again, what a waste of money and time. I’m reluctantly buying another phone from them, the cheapest 7 I can find. I’m going to try to find a way OUT of the Apple ecosystem, can’t believe my phone last 2 1/2 years. This sucks!
 

Azathoth123

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2018
930
698
Fountain City
I don’t understand the issue with AppleCare. It provides some additional coverage and extends the warranty 1 year (two years total warranty). So in all cases AC extends the warranty beyond the standard 1-year warranty, right? Was this your understanding?

Look on the bright side, your SE is probably still worth more than a 2-1/2 year-old Android.
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,724
13,244
UK
I don’t understand the issue with AppleCare. It provides some additional coverage and extends the warranty 1 year (two years total warranty). So in all cases AC extends the warranty beyond the standard 1-year warranty, right? Was this your understanding?

Look on the bright side, your SE is probably still worth more than a 2-1/2 year-old Android.
If the WiFi doesn’t work I don’t think it can be sold for much. I think the OP thought that the 2 year warranty kicked in after the standard 1 year warranty ended.
 

s15119

macrumors 68000
Nov 20, 2010
1,856
1,714
That isn’t the general point of this thread though is it? Nobody doubts it’s a very good phone. It’s simply not an iPhone that is very popular though due to its price and the fact older iPhones are still performing well enough that people don’t see the incentive paying significantly more.

This is the first year I’ve seen a push by carriers to get you to buy new iPhones by offering attractive trade ins or money off the handset price with larger data plans. This may well be because the X sold so poorly in my country last year though? That said I don’t see many of these current iPhones about so your pride in owning a Max doesn’t appear to be a hugely common point of view. Enjoy you phone though as you’re clearly the target niche consumer.


Sorry, but that's just hilarious. " niche product?" "not a popular iPhone?" I'm sorry, pal. you're simply making things up off the top of your head.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
Will apple and samsung start reducing prices? I hope so but i’m Not sure. Even if there are a lot of improvements on the phones year on year people still won’t pay the prices if they are around or above 1K.

I don’t think Apple has plans to reduce the prices the iPhones anytime soon, if you look at the course of their product history, Apple typically doesn’t reduce prices unless a new product supersedes the older one, then they devalue the older generation product. But in terms of reducing the starting price for the XS, I feel that if they did, that means that they would be responding to the consumer market and the iPhone may not be selling as they hoped. I think the closest Apple will reduce the prices is only through promotional trade-ins.
 

Azathoth123

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2018
930
698
Fountain City
Very true, and Samsung/Android phones are usually discounted soon after release, making them reduced price within 3 months say. There aren’t many compelling reasons to buy Samsung/Android phones at the full MSRP release price.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,294
25,434
Wales, United Kingdom
Sorry, but that's just hilarious. " niche product?" "not a popular iPhone?" I'm sorry, pal. you're simply making things up off the top of your head.
Not really. The XS range appeals to a much smaller market segment than say the iPhone 6 ever did and that’s the reality. If it was popular to that degree we’d mostly all have one. When I say not popular I meant to the average iPhone user.
 

akash.nu

macrumors G4
May 26, 2016
10,870
16,998
Not really. The XS range appeals to a much smaller market segment than say the iPhone 6 ever did and that’s the reality. If it was popular to that degree we’d mostly all have one. When I say not popular I meant to the average iPhone user.

As @Shanghaichica pointed out once, unless you ask someone, you won’t know if anybody is carrying a X or a Xs, other than the gold version.
 
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