iPhone SE (2016) This totally sucks. How do we convince Apple to keep making a 4" phone?

[jimmirehman]

eventually a "mini" version will come. First it was how thin can we go. then, how big can we go, now the thinness is no longer important as phones will start getting a bit thicker, and eventually, we will start seeing smaller screen phones again. but you are probably about 4 years out still.

Personally i think the 4.7" size is perfect, but now I have spend $1100 to get that, or spend $749 for a much bigger phone. Makes no sense

 

[Surf Monkey]

1. Apple still makes the 4” iPod touch.

Yep.

2. What difference does it make to you if Apple keeps a 4” phone in their lineup for other people? Why would you want them to not have what they want?

I didn’t say or imply anything of the sort.

3. Shouldn’t software be designed to fit the hardware, not the other way around?

Yes. And as I said at the start, I think iOS has ALWAYS been too big for 4 inch screens. Having owned every iteration of the device, it’s my opinion that iOS was too large and really didn’t come into it’s own until the 5, when the length finally provided enough room to type and view a reasonable amount of screen at the same time.

I strongly believe that iOS was always intended to run on a device the size of an iPad and that the version deployed on iPhones has always been a compromise, even on the larger Max phones. The operating system’s graphical interface is not now and never has been highly optimized for a 4 inch screen.

 

[44267547]

eventually a "mini" version will come. First it was how thin can we go. then, how big can we go, now the thinness is no longer important as phones will start getting a bit thicker, and eventually, we will start seeing smaller screen phones again. but you are probably about 4 years out still.

I’m not sure I follow your logic. I understand that Apple could potentially release a smaller version of the SE in the future again, perhaps a 5 inch form factor. But the reality, look how the market has shifted with smart phones, they’re no longer just about a 4 inch iPhone, 6 inch smart phone is almost a standard across the board with smart phone manufacturers, that’s one of the reasons Apple expanded this year with the XR. The profit for larger phones is that much more substantial than what the iPhone SE was offering a $350 for starting price point, however, it Likely wasn’t generating a profit enough in terms of manufacturing, marketing and what Apple was making as net, it’s why it’s likely discontinued.

In addition, I believe the SE was always intended to be a limited release, some were under the notion that it should be updated annually, and I don’t think Apple ever had the intention of Releasing a seconds version before the even decided to release the 2016 SE to the public.

 

[iZac]

I email tcook@apple.com every now-and-then hoping to get answers to some of the great questions in life, like;

"Where's my new iPhone mini and Mac mini?"

...Still no response

 

[WillnRicVa]

I am sorry my iPhone 4 did not have 4k camera, my iPhone 4 didn't have 256 gigs, my iPhone had a SLOW TAIL processor, so explain again to me how this is a IPHONE 4?

 

[Skika]

March 2019, budget 4.7 inch iPhone R

 

[subjonas]

I didn’t say or imply anything of the sort.



Yes. And as I said at the start, I think iOS has ALWAYS been too big for 4 inch screens. Having owned every iteration of the device, it’s my opinion that iOS was too large and really didn’t come into it’s own until the 5, when the length finally provided enough room to type and view a reasonable amount of screen at the same time.

I strongly believe that iOS was always intended to run on a device the size of an iPad and that the version deployed on iPhones has always been a compromise, even on the larger Max phones. The operating system’s graphical interface is not now and never has been highly optimized for a 4 inch screen.

I don’t even know how to respond to your denial. You said: “I hope Apple never makes a phone that small again.” Some people want small phones. You hope they don’t get said phone.

You’re again using iOS (the software) as the constant, and I guess your point is that people should move on from small iPhones and buy bigger iphones to accommodate the software? I don’t agree with your opinion that iOS is bad on small phones, but even if it was, the answer is not to get hardware to fit the software; it’s to keep the hardware we want, and make the software fit it. Or as a consumer, vote with our wallet by not buying hardware we don’t want or hardware with poorly optimized software. But again, I don’t agree it’s poorly optimized for small phones. I think it’s just fine.
[doublepost=1539064802][/doublepost]

3-year old iPod Touch is the only iPod touch supported in iOS 12. Its sales number is extremely weak and I bet Apple is just counting days before discontinuing iPod touch altogether.

The sad reality is that 4" iOS device like iPod Touch and iPhone SE are odd balls for developer. From excellent PaintCode website:

1. iPhone XS Max, iPhone XR, and Plus sized 5.5" iPhones share common 414 points width. XS Max and XR have 896 points height, 5.5" iPhones have 736 points height
2. iPhone X, XS, and non-Plus sized 4.7" iPhones share common 375 points width. X and XS have 812 points height, 4.7" iPhones have 667 points height.
3. 4" iPhones and iPod Touch share common 320 points width and 480 points height.

4" iPhones and iPod Touch represent less than 10% market share, and declining fast each year (no doubt in large part due to Apple not updating them with modern components and features). Even many of iOS built-in apps look very crowded on a 4" screen.

At some point, possibly as early as iOS 13 and no later than iOS 14, I think 4" iOS devices won't be compatible anymore.

I think SE loyalists need to move on and pray for smaller LCD-based iPhone XS (like XR to XS Max).

My point was merely that as long as Apple continues selling a 4” screen in some form or another, developers will probably need to support it, so they’re not out of the woods yet.

 

[nutmac]

Using Apple's latest Accessory Design Guidelines for Apple Devices, I cranked out some numbers to estimate hypothetical iPhone XR "mini", using the same bezel size as iPhone XR:

• Physical dimension: 137.8 mm by 69.6 mm (0.55 inches longer, 0.43 inches wider than iPhone SE)
• Screen size: 5.5 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 77.3%

iPhone XS:

• Physical dimension: 143.6 mm by 70.9 mm (0.78 inches longer, 0.49 inches wider than iPhone SE)
• Screen size: 5.8 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 84.1%

iPhone 8:

• Physical dimension: 138.4 mm by 67.3 mm (0.57 inches longer, 0.34 inches wider than iPhone SE)
• Screen size: 4.7 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 65.4%

iPhone SE:

• Physical dimension: 123.8 mm by 58.6 mm
• Screen size: 4 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 64.4%

 

[Ffosse]

Small phones are a thing of the past; Apple more or less confirmed this by their 2018 lineup. Even 4.7" is too small for the majority.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Using Apple's latest Accessory Design Guidelines for Apple Devices, I cranked out some numbers to estimate hypothetical iPhone XR "mini", using the same bezel size as iPhone XR:

• Physical dimension: 137.8 mm by 69.6 mm (0.55 inches longer, 0.43 inches wider than iPhone SE)
• Screen size: 5.5 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 77.3%

iPhone XS:

• Physical dimension: 143.6 mm by 70.9 mm (0.78 inches longer, 0.49 inches wider than iPhone SE)
• Screen size: 5.8 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 84.1%

iPhone 8:

• Physical dimension: 138.4 mm by 67.3 mm (0.57 inches longer, 0.34 inches wider than iPhone SE)
• Screen size: 4.7 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 65.4%

iPhone SE:

• Physical dimension: 123.8 mm by 58.6 mm
• Screen size: 4 inches
• Screen to body ratio: 64.4%

I don’t really think that would be enough of a difference to make it worth it vs just an XS.

It would have to be a little smaller and more of like a 5 inch screen probably.

 

[nutmac]

I don’t really think that would be enough of a difference to make it worth it vs just an XS.

It would have to be a little smaller and more of like a 5 inch screen probably.

The size reduction is roughly the same as XS Max to XR, which probably isn't enough for SE fans.

Having said that, I suspect size reduction isn't one of the main selling points of XR.

XR has the same screen points as XS Max, but uses 2x multiplier instead of 3x. If you apply the same rules for XS, you get a 5.5" screen.

 

[turbineseaplane]

which probably isn't enough for SE fans.

That was my only point really..

 

[44267547]

Small phones are a thing of the past; Apple more or less confirmed this by their 2018 lineup. Even 4.7" is too small for the majority.

I’m seeing more 4.7 owners even upgrading to the XR and even the 5.8 X, which I think they are appreciating the larger display and extended battery life, but the caveat being hiked the price tag. But if you look at Apple‘s marketing, they don’t even emphasize the 4.7 iPhone at all, there isn’t any type of media and marketing other than their website.

 

[RudySnow]

That was my only point really..

Did you even ask?

I get it. You’re CLEARLY not a fan of the SE like the rest of the campers on this site. I get that you folks are out there. That horse is beat.

I wouldn’t mind a 4.7 or 5-inch phone, but for me personally, it’s the form factor of the SE that I personally like. It’s rugged, less expensive to repair if broken, less expensive in general, and a great battery life. I don’t need the gimmicky Face ID when a fingerprint works just fine. Some people, like me, still want the iOS/Apple ecosystem that just performs as a phone without looking like a Luddite with a late 90s flip phone.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Did you even ask?

I get it. You’re CLEARLY not a fan of the SE. That horse is beat.

Wha!??
I LOVE THE SE !!!

(check my post history, in this and many many other SE threads).

Most recently, I myself started this thread at the end of August 2018:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-se-are-we-at-the-end.2134891/


The SE and AirPods are my favorite Apple devices in the last 5 years, hands down.
I even have a BACKUP SE I recently bought in case there's never something that size again.

 

[RudySnow]

Wha!??
I LOVE THE SE !!!

(check my post history, in this and many many other SE threads).

Most recently, I myself started this thread at the end of August 2018:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-se-are-we-at-the-end.2134891/


The SE and AirPods are my favorite Apple devices in the last 5 years, hands down.
I even have a BACKUP SE I recently bought in case there's never something that size again.

Hold on there, cowboy, I edited my post the second I hit “Post Reply.” You might want to try again. Put your Apple Watch on and try that “Breathe” app.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Hold on there, cowboy, I edited my post the second I hit “Post Reply.” You might want to try again. Put your Apple Watch on and try that “Breathe” app.

?
Your post - at this moment - still says

Did you even ask?
I get it. You’re CLEARLY not a fan of the SE like the rest of the campers on this site. I get that you folks are out there. That horse is beat.

What makes you think I'm "CLEARLY not a fan of the SE"?
That is literally 180 degrees from my actual feeling about the SE

 

[Hater]

I’m seeing more 4.7 owners even upgrading to the XR and even the 5.8 X

you're seeing people upgrading to a phone that hasn't even been released yet?

ok

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I’m seeing more 4.7 owners even upgrading to the XR and even the 5.8 X, which I think they are appreciating the larger display and extended battery life, but the caveat being hiked the price tag. But if you look at Apple‘s marketing, they don’t even emphasize the 4.7 iPhone at all, there isn’t any type of media and marketing other than their website.

Why the HELL would Apple actively advertise a previous-generation iPhone?

If you've been following Apple for the last 15 minutes you'd know ALL promotional material for the current-generation iPhone is pulled the minute the next-generation is released.

Plus (heh) you're surprised that people that bought the standard-sized device for the past 4 years are upgrading to the only larger size available?

Give me a break.

 

[RudySnow]

?
Your post - at this moment - still says



What makes you think I'm "CLEARLY not a fan of the SE"?
That is literally 180 degrees from my actual feeling about the SE

Sorry then, I misinterpreted your post.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sorry then, I misinterpreted your post.

Appreciate you saying that.
Cheers

 

[44267547]

you're seeing people upgrading to a phone that hasn't even been released yet?

What I posted must not have been worded appropriately enough. A large portion of 4.7 owners even on here based on previous threads plan on upgrading to the XR upon its release, mainly because its more in line with the price point of what they want to spend versus what they spent for the 4.7 iPhone when it released. The 5.8 XS is another offering, but for $250.00 more.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I don’t even know how to respond to your denial. You said: “I hope Apple never makes a phone that small again.” Some people want small phones. You hope they don’t get said phone.

That isn’t what I said. Read it again.

You’re again using iOS (the software) as the constant, and I guess your point is that people should move on from small iPhones and buy bigger iphones to accommodate the software?

Nope. My point is that iOS is now and always has been too big for a screen that small. I made no comment about what people should or shouldn’t want or buy.

I don’t agree with your opinion that iOS is bad on small phones,

I didn’t say bad. I said too big. You inserted the word “bad.”

but even if it was, the answer is not to get hardware to fit the software; it’s to keep the hardware we want, and make the software fit it.

Right. But Apple has never done that. Because iOS was always intended for a bigger screen.

Or as a consumer, vote with our wallet by not buying hardware we don’t want or hardware with poorly optimized software. But again, I don’t agree it’s poorly optimized for small phones. I think it’s just fine.

So, after all that you finally made a comment that’s relevant to what I actually said.

My point was merely that as long as Apple continues selling a 4” screen in some form or another, developers will probably need to support it, so they’re not out of the woods yet.

Developers aren’t the issue. The OS is. As I noted before, just look at how much of a 4 inch screen is taken up by the keyboard. In portrait it’s barely usable. In landscape it’s impossible. That’s just one example of how iOS is optimized for a larger screen.

I’m not making a value judgment about what you should want or buy. I’m pointing out an easily demonstrated design issue.

 

[FrenchRoasted]

Just for funsies, check out the first minute of Joe Rogan's podcast. "I fu**** up, this is too big" as he holds up the Excess Max.

 

[RudySnow]

That isn’t what I said. Read it again.



Nope. My point is that iOS is now and always has been too big for a screen that small. I made no comment about what people should or shouldn’t want or buy.



I didn’t say bad. I said too big. You inserted the word “bad.”



Right. But Apple has never done that. Because iOS was always intended for a bigger screen.



So, after all that you finally made a comment that’s relevant to what I actually said.



Developers aren’t the issue. The OS is. As I noted before, just look at how much of a 4 inch screen is taken up by the keyboard. In portrait it’s barely usable. In landscape it’s impossible. That’s just one example of how iOS is optimized for a larger screen.

I’m not making a value judgment about what you should want or buy. I’m pointing out an easily demonstrated design issue.

I feel free to vehemently disagree with all of your points.

Whew! Now that we both feel better, let’s get back to the actual topic of the OP’s post.