iPhone SE (2016) This totally sucks. How do we convince Apple to keep making a 4" phone?

[EugW]

3) another suggestion was a phone with a screen closer to 5.5". My hypothesis is that didnt happen because of the china market. if apple is just going is make 1 XR, it will be larger than smaller, as the chinese market likes large screens.

My belief here is Apple is just model/feature rationing, and they also had older models they could sell.

Remember, they released the X last year, without the Max. Then they released the Max this year, along with an XS, and they added the XR for the mid-budget tier. For those who want neither and who want to save money can order from the 7 or 8 series.

Come 2019, the 7 and 7 Plus fall off the list, leaving only the 8 and 8 Plus for the legacy models, but then with two new complete lines, at differing price points, each with two models, those being:

iPhone XE (or whatever it's called) with 5.5" LCD
iPhone XRS II with 6.1" LCD

iPhone XSS with 5.8" OLED
iPhone XSS Max with 6.5" OLED

Pricing as follows (hopefully):

8: $499 64 GB
8 Plus: $599 64 GB

XE: $649 64 GB
XRS: $749 64 GB

XSS: $999 128 GB
XSS Max: $1099 128 GB

BTW, I'd consider buying a 2019 TennisS Max 128 GB for $1099. I refuse to buy a 256 GB model for $1249. Maybe Apple did me a favour though this year, since they pushed me to keep my 7 Plus another year, thereby allowing me to avoid all the "gates" with the XS lines this year.

 

[Caspavio]

My belief here is Apple is just model/feature rationing, and they also had older models they could sell.

Remember, they released the X last year, without the Max. Then they released the Max this year, along with an XS, and they added the XR for the mid-budget tier. For those who want neither and who want to save money can order from the 7 or 8 series.

Come 2019, the 7 and 7 Plus fall off the list, leaving only the 8 and 8 Plus for the legacy models, but then with two new complete lines, at differing price points, each with two models, those being:

iPhone XE (or whatever it's called) with 5.5" LCD
iPhone XRS II with 6.1" LCD

iPhone XSS with 5.8" OLED
iPhone XSS Max with 6.5" OLED

Pricing as follows (hopefully):

8: $499 64 GB
8 Plus: $599 64 GB

XE: $649 64 GB
XRS: $749 64 GB

XSS: $999 128 GB
XSS Max: $1099 128 GB

BTW, I'd consider buying a 2019 TennisS Max 128 GB for $1099. I refuse to buy a 256 GB model for $1249. Maybe Apple did me a favour though this year, since they pushed me to keep my 7 Plus another year, thereby allowing me to avoid all the "gates" with the XS lines this year.

unfortunately i have to change my phone this year; my 5S is barely surviving, or a 5.5" phone will be perfect.

however, i think the SE will be priced at $699 and the XSS models will only have 64gb, unless prices go up

 

[Surf Monkey]

iOS still runs perfectly well on my SE, and iOS has run perfectly on an SE for over 10 years now. That comment is illogical.

And a lot of us wouldn’t mind a small phone with a larger (edge-to-edge) screen, but just prefer the SE’s form factor, so our phones don’t feel like we’re holding a bar of soap with those rounded edges.

It runs fine. The screen is too small for the OS. Try typing in landscape.

 

[RudySnow]

It runs fine. The screen is too small for the OS. Try typing in landscape.

I don’t need—or care—landscape on an SE ro reply to your ridiculous post. My gosh! I did it right now! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Surf Monkey]

I don’t need—or care—landscape on an SE ro reply to your ridiculous post. My gosh! I did it right now! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No need to be snarky.

There are many examples. iOS has always been too big for a 4 inch screen.

 

[44267547]

I think one thing can be said, some are under the illusion that Apple will return the SE form factor, that’s not going to be something in their future considerations. Mainly because the current form factor for the SE is highly antiquated, both with the resolution, and technical specifications [Aside from the A9, Which is still sufficient]. If Apple does revamp the SE, I would expect an LCD display (Maybe OLED), Face ID and a water resistance rating, all of which would supersede the previous 4 inch iPhone that it didn’t incorporate.

A revamped SE does not need to have the ‘latest technology’, what the consumer wants is still something that’s relatively comfortable to use one handed and in the pocket with the smaller form factor, but yet still not exorbitant in price.

 

[EugW]

No need to be snarky.

There are many examples. iOS has always been too big for a 4 inch screen.

Nope. Worked just fine with the iPhone 5, 5C, and 5S, and SE as well.

And remember, Zoomed Display mode on the iPhone 8 basically just turns the phone into a blown up iPhone 5S, and continues to be supported even in iOS 12.

My wife has been using Zoomed Display mode on her 6s with no problems.

That said, I see Apple moving away from this. I predict the iPhone 8 form factor will be gone in 2020, which means I think Apple will terminate Xcode support for 4” iPhones and Zoomed 4.7” iPhones some time after that.

I think one thing can be said, some are under the illusion that Apple will return the SE form factor, that’s not going to be something in their future considerations. Mainly because the current form factor for the SE is highly antiquated, both with the resolution, and technical specifications [Aside from the A9, Which is still sufficient]. If Apple does revamp the SE, I would expect an LCD display (Maybe OLED), Face ID and a water resistance rating, all of which would supersede the previous 4 inch iPhone that it didn’t incorporate.

A revamped SE does not need to have the ‘latest technology’, what the consumer wants is still something that’s relatively comfortable to use one handed and in the pocket with the smaller form factor, but yet still not exorbitant in price.

No OLED necessary. No IP68 rating necessary. However, I predict their next “small” iPhone will have Face ID, and won’t be a 4” iPhone. It will be a 5.5”, because the market these days for a 4” iPhone is small (no pun intended).

 

[44267547]

No OLED necessary. No IP68 rating necessary.

OLED is optional, as I alluded to, it will likely be LCD for budgetary considerations. Furthermore, it doesn’t have to be IP 68, I simply added that it could be water resistant rated, which it could retain the IP67 from the iPhone 8. Remember, Apple wants to sell/market this phone, features like water resistance really is almost a ‘must’ in some situations with phones today offering this in today’s smart phone era.

However, I predict their next “small” iPhone will have Face ID

It better include Face ID, because Tim Cook said directly “Face ID is the future for Apple”. And if that is the future, that means moving forward the iPhone, iPad and even the Mac at one point will offer face ID for biometric security.

 

[bluecoast]

1) it seems quite a few users are hoping for a SE form factor but an edge-to-edge screen. this is just impossible because there will be no space for the faceID sensors and the larger battery required for a decent battery life (due to the larger screen).

2) one possibility, though highly unlikely, is that apple is withholding the release of such phone until they can make an sufficiently efficient processor

3) another suggestion was a phone with a screen closer to 5.5". My hypothesis is that didnt happen because of the china market. if apple is just going is make 1 XR, it will be larger than smaller, as the chinese market likes large screens.

Another thing that springs to mind, is that the Face ID and front facing camera component might look out of proportion on a phone intended to replace the regular 4.7 inch screen phones (not that I’m a designer) & take up too much of the phone’s ‘face’.

Although I’m hoping to see a product like this, next March, I have a feeling that it’ll be at least until September next year when (presumably) Apple will be able to launch phones with a smaller 2nd gen (edit) face ID (end edit) component.
[doublepost=1538388722][/doublepost]

No need to be snarky.

There are many examples. iOS has always been too big for a 4 inch screen.

I disagree, it’s only with iOS 10 that Apple started to put in the app title headers & an app tray and contact portraits in iMessage etc.

Arguably, those weren’t necessary things to add to iOS per se, but they did make it look better on a bigger & high dpi screen. And with the tall and long screen of the X, this trend continued in iOS 11.

iOS 9 was perfectly fine on a 4 inch screen - I know this as I used a iPhone 5s throughout (nearly) all of iOS 9’s active development.

It’s possible to turn off the portraits and hide the app tray in iMessage but sadly those title headers seem there to stay - it’s a shame that Apple won’t allow us to turn them off and return to the old iOS 7 era app headings style.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

iPhone 7 is already near 449$ at 32GB.
iPhone SE was 349$ at 32GB before the iPhone 7 price drop above...

also another thing is if iPhone SE dropped even further in price it would be redundant to manufacture because the profit margin is miniscule so hence they got rid of it.
Putting A10/11/12 into an iPhone SE would rather be overkill given the size.
How to fit a bigger camera into the iphone SE? it doesn't have the space to improve [duh].

So eventually i knew it will be cancelled but the sales figures dictate otherwise that people want more bigger phones and the 7/7+/8/8+/XS/XS max fit the bill perfectly with the XR coming in.

 

[Dented]

No need to be snarky.

There are many examples. iOS has always been too big for a 4 inch screen.

You’re not making a lot of sense, presenting this argument to a host of people clamouring for a new SE.

We’re all using iOS 12 just fine on our 4” screens.

Heck, I’d buy an SE2 with the exact same screen, if they just updated the internals and the camera. Edge to edge would be nice but it’s not a must have for me at all.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

Why should the smallest be the cheapest? I want small, not cheap.

Should have said most inexpensive.

 

[Q-Dog]

You’re not making a lot of sense, presenting this argument to a host of people clamouring for a new SE.

We’re all using iOS 12 just fine on our 4” screens.

Heck, I’d buy an SE2 with the exact same screen, if they just updated the internals and the camera. Edge to edge would be nice but it’s not a must have for me at all.

I'm even OK with the current camera in the SE. I have a real camera when I want to take photos. (I haven't seen a phone camera yet that can match even the cheapest DSLR with a kit lens.)

 

[ZEEN0j]

Convince everyone else to buy it

 

[Surf Monkey]

You’re not making a lot of sense, presenting this argument to a host of people clamouring for a new SE.

We’re all using iOS 12 just fine on our 4” screens.

Heck, I’d buy an SE2 with the exact same screen, if they just updated the internals and the camera. Edge to edge would be nice but it’s not a must have for me at all.

Nifty.

The OS is still too big for a 4 inch screen. It has always been too big for a screen that small.

 

[Dented]

Nifty.

The OS is still too big for a 4 inch screen. It has always been too big for a screen that small.

Ok. Well I tried to help you, but there’s only so much I can do.

 

[EugW]

It's clear Apple wants to move away from 4" iPhones given their predilection for giant fonts and bigger screen elements these days. However, as mentioned by others, that happened more recently, whereas previous versions of iOS were quite optimised for 4" screens.

Howeven, even iOS 12 runs perfectly fine on both the iPhone SE and on the Display Zoomed iPhone 6/6s/7/8 (which has the same on-screen info as an SE).

 

[nutmac]

It's clear Apple wants to move away from 4" iPhones given their predilection for giant fonts and bigger screen elements these days. However, as mentioned by others, that happened more recently, whereas previous versions of iOS were quite optimised for 4" screens.

Agreed 100%.

It is not trivial to design (even large companies like Apple) a full screen UI that is optimized for many screen targets.

iPhones that run iOS 12 are now divided into 5 point sizes (from largest to smallest):

1. 414 by 896 (370,944 points): XS Max, XR
2. 414 by 736 (304,704 points): 6 Plus, 6S Plus, 7 Plus, 8 Plus
3. 375 by 812 (304,500 points): XS, X
4. 375 by 667 (250,125 points): 6, 6S, 7, 8
5. 320 by 568 (181,760 points): 5S, SE

For developers, iPhones with Face ID can be treated as supersets of their smaller predecessors (they have the common width). That brings the major screen targets to 2 + 1 for 5 and SE.

5S and SE are odd phones out in that they often require special care to look right, and that effort is losing importance as the usage is falling below 10% for most developers.

I am not trying to be divisive and dismiss 4" loyalists. But clearly, the trend is not in their favor. I think their only hope is for Apple to XR-fy 5.8" iPhone X -- which would result in roughly 5.5" screen and 20% larger form factor from SE (vs. 30% for iPhone 8).

But a long time iPhone user, I hate the idea that to have the smallest and latest iPhone, I have to use "lesser" iPhone. As much as I like and defend XR's existence, I personally love dual rear lens camera and OLED screen.

 

[EugW]

Agreed 100%.

It is not trivial to design (even large companies like Apple) a full screen UI that is optimized for many screen targets.

iPhones that run iOS 12 are now divided into 5 point sizes (from largest to smallest):

1. 414 by 896 (370,944 points): XS Max, XR
2. 414 by 736 (304,704 points): 6 Plus, 6S Plus, 7 Plus, 8 Plus
3. 375 by 812 (304,500 points): XS, X
4. 375 by 667 (250,125 points): 6, 6S, 7, 8
5. 320 by 568 (181,760 points): 5S, SE

For developers, iPhones with Face ID can be treated as supersets of their smaller predecessors (they have the common width). That brings the major screen targets to 2 + 1 for 5 and SE.

5S and SE are odd phones out in that they often require special care to look right, and that effort is losing importance as the usage is falling below 10% for most developers.

I am not trying to be divisive and dismiss 4" loyalists. But clearly, the trend is not in their favor. I think their only hope is for Apple to XR-fy 5.8" iPhone X -- which would result in roughly 5.5" screen and 20% larger form factor from SE (vs. 30% for iPhone 8).

But a long time iPhone user, I hate the idea that to have the smallest and latest iPhone, I have to use "lesser" iPhone. As much as I like and defend XR's existence, I personally love dual rear lens camera and OLED screen.

2018 marked the death of #5.
I believe 2020 will mark the death of #2 and #4.
As mentioned, I also believe 2019 will mark the birth of a new LCD phone, but it will fit into #3.

So, by 2020, we will have only #1 and #3.

Not sure how long Apple will keep Xcode up to date for old models though.

 

[Icaras]

It would be noticeably smaller than the X, at least if the bezel sizes of the XR are any indication.

Calculating the 326 ppi LCD screen size with the 19.5:9 aspect ratio and same amount of screen info as the XS, and using the bezel sizes of the XR, the 2.3x5.0" (5.5" diagonal) screen of this hypothetical phone would fit into about a 2.72x5.4" frame. In comparison, the XS is 2.79x5.65". This hypothetical LCD based small iPhone XE would probably be a bit thicker than the XS though.

tl;dr:

My hypothetical 5.5" XE would display the same amount of info as the XS, but would use a 326 ppi LCD, and the overall phone size would be about 5-6 mm shorter and 1-2 mm narrower than the XS.

Great analytical post and that hypothetical XE sounds so good

I’ve just submitted feedback to Apple about a XE and I suggest everyone else who also wants one to do the same:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

 

[bushman4]

Unfortunately a 4 inch iPhone can’t do anything as much as today’s iPhones ( especially battery life)
Too small too thin ( not that it was bad) but in today’s world it would be equivalent to a clamshell phone
Times change sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse

 

[VantaNoir]

You don't, that's technology for you.

 

[Moonjumper]

Unfortunately a 4 inch iPhone can’t do anything as much as today’s iPhones ( especially battery life)
Too small too thin ( not that it was bad) but in today’s world it would be equivalent to a clamshell phone
Times change sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse

I’m not expecting an SE phone to be able to do everything the larger ones can. An SE does everything I need of it, whereas the larger devices do not by being too big. I have different priorities to those who want the big phones.

 

[Hater]

iOS too big for 4" screens? It was originally created for 3.5" screens... Even after the rename from iPhone OS

And you can fit even more on the screen since those times anyway due to PPI increases

I'd love a 3.5" SE. Even better if it was iPod Touch 6th gen thickness

Even if the battery life was half a day due to half a battery due to quarter of the size, it'd be awesome, proper credit card form factor

What can't an SE do that a larger screened phone can?

 

[dan98]

Unfortunately a 4 inch iPhone can’t do anything as much as today’s iPhones ( especially battery life)
Too small too thin ( not that it was bad) but in today’s world it would be equivalent to a clamshell phone
Times change sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse

I find this statement to be almost entirely nonsense.

I don't know of any practical application where the SE can't do the job that the larger phones can.
The battery life is the best I've ever experienced on any smartphone, including my time spent with the larger iphones.

The only thing I do agree with is the last line.