iPhone SE (2016) This totally sucks. How do we convince Apple to keep making a 4" phone?

[TantalizedMind]

Life is change. Embrace that or embrace being just a little unhappy all the time. Your choice.

Truth. I've become a single father lately and hate it. I have much anger, a lot of trust issues now.

Until I can adjust mentally and one day maybe embrace it... I'll be unhappy for a long time.

Be happy if one of your biggest issues is the size of your phone. I wish it was mine.

 

[dan98]

Life is change. Embrace that or embrace being just a little unhappy all the time. Your choice.

I suppose you might also suggest embracing all the new things like Trump? Brexit? Global Warming?
No, sorry, when it just *feels* right I like to hold onto it and campaign it to stay.
On the other hand if I feel something is b******* I like to firstly give it a chance before dismissing and campaigning against it.

 

[1144557]

Not true, see this story: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/26/iphone-se-demand-is-strong/

iPhone SE sold very well indeed, more than Apple expected. A newer version would also have sold well, but Apple prefers the bigger phones as they think they can charge more for them.

You have one vague quote about "strong demand" with no numbers.

Country Position Phone model Share
USA 1 iPhone 7 12.05%
USA 2 iPhone 7 Plus 9.96%
USA 3 iPhone 6S 7.77%
USA 4 iPhone 6 6.22%
USA 5 iPhone 8 Plus 5.68%
USA 6 iPhone X 5.00%
USA 7 iPhone 6S Plus 4.34%
USA 8 iPhone 8 4.04%
USA 9 iPhone SE 3.89%
USA 10 Samsung Galaxy S8 2.96%

The SE was the lowest selling iphone model in the US; and didnt cross 8% in any country reported (and only that high a % in small countries like Ireland where they only have 4.7 million people, less than New York City, so total fewer units despite a higher %).

You make more money on even a $750 or $1000 phone than a $399; profit margins are likely double. Bottom line it doesnt make financial sense with lower profit margin vs cost to develop the device or they would have.

 

[DNichter]

Imagine if you liked petite women and all the new models were 6 feet tall and overweight. By the logic of you phablet fan boys, you would just "adjust" and bend over. I on the other hand, would go MGTOW.

I’m not a “phablet fanboy”, just giving it a shot. Anyway, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[dan98]

You have one vague quote about "strong demand" with no numbers.

Country Position Phone model Share
USA 1 iPhone 7 12.05%
USA 2 iPhone 7 Plus 9.96%
USA 3 iPhone 6S 7.77%
USA 4 iPhone 6 6.22%
USA 5 iPhone 8 Plus 5.68%
USA 6 iPhone X 5.00%
USA 7 iPhone 6S Plus 4.34%
USA 8 iPhone 8 4.04%
USA 9 iPhone SE 3.89%
USA 10 Samsung Galaxy S8 2.96%

The SE was the lowest selling iphone model in the US; and didnt cross 8% in any country reported (and only that high a % in small countries like Ireland where they only have 4.7 million people, less than New York City, so total fewer units despite a higher %).

You make more money on even a $750 or $1000 phone than a $399; profit margins are likely double. Bottom line it doesnt make financial sense with lower profit margin vs cost to develop the device or they would have.

But, wait a moment - don’t your own figures show that the SE (‘ancient’ technology) was pretty much as popular as the nearly brand new IPhone 8 ?

 

[Lowhangers]

You have one vague quote about "strong demand" with no numbers.

Country Position Phone model Share
USA 1 iPhone 7 12.05%
USA 2 iPhone 7 Plus 9.96%
USA 3 iPhone 6S 7.77%
USA 4 iPhone 6 6.22%
USA 5 iPhone 8 Plus 5.68%
USA 6 iPhone X 5.00%
USA 7 iPhone 6S Plus 4.34%
USA 8 iPhone 8 4.04%
USA 9 iPhone SE 3.89%
USA 10 Samsung Galaxy S8 2.96%

The SE was the lowest selling iphone model in the US; and didnt cross 8% in any country reported (and only that high a % in small countries like Ireland where they only have 4.7 million people, less than New York City, so total fewer units despite a higher %).

You make more money on even a $750 or $1000 phone than a $399; profit margins are likely double. Bottom line it doesnt make financial sense with lower profit margin vs cost to develop the device or they would have.

So if we go by your logic, the iPhone 8 might as well be cancelled as well. It barely beat out the SE according to the numbers you posted. The iPhone X was barely more than 1% more popular. Why did Apple release an Xs if the X had such a poor showing? According to your logic, Apple should not have released a followup to the X model. Why bother? The X only had 5%, right?

And you think the SE should be discontinued? Why not just be honest and say you personally dislike the SE and call it a day? Sales for the SE were quite good, considering Apple did not keep it up to date with the rest of the iPhone line. If they had kept it updated, it would have sold even more than it did.

An updated iPhone SE will sell quite well, if Apple ever makes one.

 

[1144557]

So if we go by your logic, the iPhone 8 might as well be cancelled as well. It barely beat out the SE according to the numbers you posted. The iPhone X was barely more than 1% more popular. Why did Apple release an Xs if the X had such a poor showing? According to your logic, Apple should not have released a followup to the X model. Why bother? The X only had 5%, right?

And you think the SE should be discontinued? Why not just be honest and say you personally dislike the SE and call it a day? Sales for the SE were quite good, considering Apple did not keep it up to date with the rest of the iPhone line. If they had kept it updated, it would have sold even more than it did.

An updated iPhone SE will sell quite well, if Apple ever makes one.

2 words- profit margins. Again, basic economics, would you rather sell 100 $700 phones with a $350 margin, or 95 $399 phones with $50-100 margin? Volume doesn't mean squat in margin land unless you are selling cheap at HUGE volumes; ala companies like Hauwei.

Its beating a dead horse that isn't coming back in iPhone form.

 

[burgman]

But, wait a moment - don’t your own figures show that the SE (‘ancient’ technology) was pretty much as popular as the nearly brand new IPhone 8 ?

Since you don't know time offered for sale, comparisons of numbers is meaningless. Actually those numbers without knowing source and time frame for each don't mean much at all.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Not true, see this story: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/26/iphone-se-demand-is-strong/

iPhone SE sold very well indeed, more than Apple expected.

A newer version would also have sold well, but Apple prefers the bigger phones as they think they can charge more for them.

It could be that Apple originally planned on making 2 million... but ended up having to make 4 million. Who knows the actual number. I'm just spitballing here.

But whatever the SE number was... this was at a time when Apple was selling 200 million iPhones a year.

Apple loves margins. Perhaps it cost too much to have an entire factory line for the SE when it was just 2% of their total units sales. Or whatever the percentage was.

We'll never know. But if I had to guess... I'd say the iPhone SE didn't make enough profit and/or didn't sell enough units to make it a worthwhile product in the lineup. Apple is running a business, after all.

I know there seems to be plenty of passionate SE fans on these forums... but not 50 million fans a year.

 

[thadoggfather]

Is anyone rocking a series 4 and SE?

 

[Lowhangers]

It could be that Apple originally planned on making 2 million... but ended up having to make 4 million. Who knows the actual number. I'm just spitballing here.

But whatever the SE number was... this was at a time when Apple was selling 200 million iPhones a year.

Apple loves margins. Perhaps it cost too much to have an entire factory line for the SE when it was just 2% of their total units sales. Or whatever the percentage was.

We'll never know. But if I had to guess... I'd say the iPhone SE didn't make enough profit and/or didn't sell enough units to make it a worthwhile product in the lineup. Apple is running a business, after all.

I know there seems to be plenty of passionate SE fans on these forums... but not 50 million fans a year.

I can understand a desire for bigger margins, but don't forget that services are the big growth number for Apple. So offering a lower margin phone that brings people into the App Store ecosystem, iCloud for storage, etc. can still contribute to Apple's overall profits. The margin might not be as much on the phone, but the people who buy it will still pay money for services.

 

[tkermit]

Life is change. Embrace that or embrace being just a little unhappy all the time. Your choice.

Be happy if one of your biggest issues is the size of your phone. I wish it was mine.

Seriously. I'll admit I'm "just a little" unhappy all the time (reminds me of "Regrets I've had a few. But then again too few to mention"). But I don't think something as trivial as switching to a phablet will fix this particular aspect of the human condition...

By the way, the last time I heard all this "embrace change" nonsense was when Windows 8 was introduced.

 

[RudySnow]

ive been wanting apple to return the the iPhone 4-5 style of shape for years now. ive never really liked the whole curved sides it looks nice and feel good in your hand but is also not my favorite design of phone.
Maybe they'll return the the sandwich style boxy frame for next generation. I think the glass would be more durable as they can make it completely flush inside the body. The design of the 6 and on is so prone to breaking its not even funny. Its not the best design as there is glass that can hit at almost all angles now. The 5 almost had the glass flush it still wants completely flush but much getter than the 4's. the 6 and on is super fragile.
Bring back this style please I think it would be the best designed phone as far as grip and safety for glass breaking.

I couldn’t agree with you more. My wife has gone through a 6, 6S, and a 7S now, and she dropped and broke all three because of slippery edges. I learned from her experience that I don’t want to go through screen repairs from such a flimsy, slick (meaning, “slippery”) design. When I had my 5C, I dropped it a few times and never had a dent. If people want to spend $1K+ on a phone, they really need to take that into consideration when purchasing. You WILL drop your phone, and AppleCare only covers so much.

 

[ScholarsInk]

I love the iphone SE.
The battery life is amazing, it's so easy to use and to hold, it's super fast, the screen size is perfect, it looks cute and it just works. It even has a headphone jack.

There's absolutely nothing more appealing / practical or useful about having a larger screen than 4 inches for a smartphone.
I don't want or need some kind of tablet device bulging out of my pocket, I just want this. Totally efficient and functional.

This is the perfect iphone and Apple just killed it.

[IMO, Rant Over etc..]

I'm as disappointed as you are. But in one key respect they kept the legacy of the SE alive.

The XR has the newest chipset and, like the SE, will probably edge out the premium models in power because of its lower resolution. I bought my SE not because it was cheaper, but because I didn't want to give up the form factor that I had consistently been using, and it was a way to do so while still getting the latest tech.

I think I'll be getting an XS, if I upgrade, but I'm glad that the XR is following the path of the SE rather than that of the 5c with old tech bundled in a cheaper package.

 

[bobbype0]

Got few questions. I previously bought an old iphone 4s a while back. Then i had to get a new phone and got the iphone SE. I got that about 2 years ago. First off, why are people saying the phone cost 399? I bought it 2 years ago and it cost me at least 449 or 499+ tax. So it was more than 500 dollars. I did get the 64gb one though and its unlocked. Those of you that say 399, did you get it like a year after it came out? I got it about 6 months after it came out. Was the price at apple.com the same 6 months later on or not? So how did you get it at 399 unless you mean you got the 16gb?


Since i only had 2 iphones i ever used, i felt comfortable with holding it. The SE is nice because its small where i use it with one hand. Now with the iphone 7, so basically you can't use it with one hand is that correct? So if you are walking around, you can't really control the iphone 7 with just one hand? I would find it annoying that you have to use 2 hands to use it. Also someone mentioned that the iphone 7 or some other phone is very slippery and you are bound to drop it. Is that true or is it another iphone? The iphone SE is nice because if fits very well holding it.


Would you say its a dumb idea to get an iphone 7 if one has an SE and wants a bigger phone? I did notice one issue with the SE was the screen size is a bit too small... at first i bought it because i wanted small screen... didnt like big screens. But is that 0.7' really a big difference? But if it feels uncomfortable holding it, then i probably won't get it.

 

[Ladybug]

Got few questions. I previously bought an old iphone 4s a while back. Then i had to get a new phone and got the iphone SE. I got that about 2 years ago. First off, why are people saying the phone cost 399? I bought it 2 years ago and it cost me at least 449 or 499+ tax. So it was more than 500 dollars. I did get the 64gb one though and its unlocked. Those of you that say 399, did you get it like a year after it came out? I got it about 6 months after it came out. Was the price at apple.com the same 6 months later on or not? So how did you get it at 399 unless you mean you got the 16gb?


Since i only had 2 iphones i ever used, i felt comfortable with holding it. The SE is nice because its small where i use it with one hand. Now with the iphone 7, so basically you can't use it with one hand is that correct? So if you are walking around, you can't really control the iphone 7 with just one hand? I would find it annoying that you have to use 2 hands to use it. Also someone mentioned that the iphone 7 or some other phone is very slippery and you are bound to drop it. Is that true or is it another iphone? The iphone SE is nice because if fits very well holding it.


Would you say its a dumb idea to get an iphone 7 if one has an SE and wants a bigger phone? I did notice one issue with the SE was the screen size is a bit too small... at first i bought it because i wanted small screen... didnt like big screens. But is that 0.7' really a big difference? But if it feels uncomfortable holding it, then i probably won't get it.

Let me preface this by saying this is my opinion based on my usage. I have had 6, 6s, and now the 8. All have basically the same dimensions and shape. The 6 and 7 are slippery because they have metal backs and I find they were harder to pick up than the 5s/SE. The edges on these phones are rounded and the phones are thinner than previous models.

However if you put those phones in a case you can alleviate that. Even a slim case helps. The 8 is not as slick because of its glass back imo. Depending on the size of your hand I think you can still manage to do some things one handed on these phones. Best thing to do is go handle one in the store and decide for yourself.

If you are not a case person they do make skins that can help with grip...I prefer thin cases personally but elected for something more protective with the 8 because of the glass back.

 

[Dented]

You have one vague quote about "strong demand" with no numbers.

Country Position Phone model Share
USA 1 iPhone 7 12.05%
USA 2 iPhone 7 Plus 9.96%
USA 3 iPhone 6S 7.77%
USA 4 iPhone 6 6.22%
USA 5 iPhone 8 Plus 5.68%
USA 6 iPhone X 5.00%
USA 7 iPhone 6S Plus 4.34%
USA 8 iPhone 8 4.04%
USA 9 iPhone SE 3.89%
USA 10 Samsung Galaxy S8 2.96%

The SE was the lowest selling iphone model in the US; and didnt cross 8% in any country reported (and only that high a % in small countries like Ireland where they only have 4.7 million people, less than New York City, so total fewer units despite a higher %).

You make more money on even a $750 or $1000 phone than a $399; profit margins are likely double. Bottom line it doesnt make financial sense with lower profit margin vs cost to develop the device or they would have.

As others have pointed out, your figures actually demonstrate a surprisingly strong showing for an old phone that was widely rumoured for an update throughout the year. There’s very clearly still demand for the form factor, and I suspect it will return once the just-announced phones are established.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I can understand a desire for bigger margins, but don't forget that services are the big growth number for Apple. So offering a lower margin phone that brings people into the App Store ecosystem, iCloud for storage, etc. can still contribute to Apple's overall profits. The margin might not be as much on the phone, but the people who buy it will still pay money for services.

Very true.

But perhaps the people who purchased the absolute cheapest new iPhone SE didn't spend extra money on Apple Music subscriptions, iCloud subscriptions, etc.

Even though Apple's services revenue is increasing... maybe it wasn't the SE that was driving this increase.

We don't know. But Apple knows. They know exactly which customers with which devices purchase which things.

I understand what you're saying though.

The good news is... price sensitive consumers can still enter the Apple ecosystem with the $449 iPhone 7 instead of the $399 iPhone SE.

However... it still doesn't help the people who want a 4" phone.

But they can't get a tiny phone on Android either...

 

[1144557]

As others have pointed out, your figures actually demonstrate a surprisingly strong showing for an old phone that was widely rumoured for an update throughout the year. There’s very clearly still demand for the form factor, and I suspect it will return once the just-announced phones are established.

Right but that's not factoring in people who merely bought it for the low entry price and not the small size. And again, if margins don't support the R&D and teams to design a whole new device, parts, form factor, etc then they simply will not do it. It costs tens of millions (or maybe more) to develop a new phone; all of the design, parts, testing, regulatory, etc etc.

If margins are, say $50-100 on a $399 phone, it may simply not make financial sense. What people want is a far second to that.

Right now there is a $400 range iphone you can buy; the 7 at $449. That they already have all of the parts and design done and paid back for from 2 years ago, so why build yet another sub-$500 device now?

Very true.

But perhaps the people who purchased the absolute cheapest new iPhone SE didn't spend extra money on Apple Music subscriptions, iCloud subscriptions, etc.

Even though Apple's services revenue is increasing... maybe it wasn't the SE that was driving this increase.

We don't know. But Apple knows. They know exactly which customers with which devices purchase which things.

I understand what you're saying though.

The good news is... price sensitive consumers can still enter the Apple ecosystem with the $449 iPhone 7 instead of the $399 iPhone SE.

However... it still doesn't help the people who want a 4" phone.

But they can't get a tiny phone on Android either...

Spot on.

 

[LiveWireless]

It's possible the SE2 was designed with a Qualcomm modem since it had been in the works for a while. If so, Apple could have canceled the update, and the existing model because of that.

 

[Abstract]

I think we'll eventually see a smaller XR.

As for profit margin, the SE started off as being fairly pricey. It started off being a little bit cheaper than the 6S, but not by much. Eventually, as it aged, it was being sold at pretty much half of its original RRP. Why? Because its internals were old, and it was old.

I think people are simply asking for the option of a new, smaller phone. Nobody is saying it needs to be dirt cheap. Even if it was "small" like an iPhone 6,7,8 (non-Plus) model rather than the SE, but had a X/XS/XR style display that covers the entire front, that would be greatly appreciated by many.

Personally, I have an SE. Yes, I pay for services like iCloud and Apple Music. My next phone is probably the XR, but I really wish there was a smaller phone for my wife to "upgrade" to. Otherwise, I'll get her an iPhone 8, assuming Apple continues to sell that as the "new" iPhone SE.

 

[Falhófnir]

To put it succinctly you can’t. At this point Apple are clearly no longer making new home-button designs so it would require a full redesign and that’s a multi-million dollar decision by the time they have designed and engineered, tooled and manufactured, and shipped and marketed the new model. If it doesn’t sell in sufficient volume for them to make a meaningful return on their investment then it’s a bad business decision that would get the executive team in trouble with the shareholders. As it is Wall Street seem to be penning in Apple’s product path with expectations of ever growing profitability. So far Apple have reacted by sacrificing volume growth for higher ASP and margins, that trick must be beginning to run out of steam by now...

 

[bluecoast]

iPhone 6 is even more outdated than SE. And while 4" loyalists may replace their beloved SE with spec bumped SE2 when their current phone dies, I doubt majority of those with a perfectly functional SE would be compelled to upgrade to SE2, reducing the market appeal even further.

iPhone SE looks more outdated than iPhone 6, which can be mistaken for more expensive iPhone 8. In other words, it can be a status symbol in countries where the gap between those "who have" and "have not" is large. Superficial maybe but to many, this is a real factor.

What if Apple replaces it with X-style design, say, 5.5" XR Mini with the same screen real estate as iPhone XS, just as XR has the same screen real estate as XS Max?

According to my quick calculations, 5.5" XR Mini would be roughly 20% larger than iPhone SE (79% screen to body ratio of XR), but that's still an improvement over 30% larger footprint of iPhone 8.

I absolutely think that Apple are going to do this & I’m hoping for March next year.

Maybe we’ll see the A11 and single camera etc.

Here’s hoping. I know I’d buy it.

 

[Caspavio]

just curious, for people who wants an iphone SE2, what updates are you looking for?

 

[bluecoast]

You have one vague quote about "strong demand" with no numbers.

Country Position Phone model Share
USA 1 iPhone 7 12.05%
USA 2 iPhone 7 Plus 9.96%
USA 3 iPhone 6S 7.77%
USA 4 iPhone 6 6.22%
USA 5 iPhone 8 Plus 5.68%
USA 6 iPhone X 5.00%
USA 7 iPhone 6S Plus 4.34%
USA 8 iPhone 8 4.04%
USA 9 iPhone SE 3.89%
USA 10 Samsung Galaxy S8 2.96%

The SE was the lowest selling iphone model in the US; and didnt cross 8% in any country reported (and only that high a % in small countries like Ireland where they only have 4.7 million people, less than New York City, so total fewer units despite a higher %).

You make more money on even a $750 or $1000 phone than a $399; profit margins are likely double. Bottom line it doesnt make financial sense with lower profit margin vs cost to develop the device or they would have.

Fair enough, however...

The interesting thing about the new phones is that Apple kept on mentioning how the XS Max and the XR compared to the Plus models.

At no point did they talk about what owners of the 4.7 models could expect from the new phones compared to their current models.

My take on that is that:

- Plus owners are more likely to upgrade - and they want the biggest screen available & (some) wasn’t the biggest storage.
- There’s a lot of 6, 6S plus owners around who haven’t had a good reason to upgrade. Now they have.

So the new models were targeted at Plus owners.

Obviously the question that’s begging to be asked is:

Where’s the new iPhone for those who prefer the 4.7 inch size (and a mid-range price)?

Surely the phone with a bigger Touch ID screen than the 4.7 inch form factor but a slightly smaller body (than the current 4.7 inch phone) is the missing product here.

This is basically a smaller XR with (maybe) the A11 and camera.

I really would not be surprised if we see this product in this March.

Why then? Apple will be hoping that as many people as possible people will decide to get the new expensive phones as an upgrade/gift in the western and south East Asian holiday periods coming up.

So why introduce a cheaper model until this period is over?