iPhone SE (2016) This totally sucks. How do we convince Apple to keep making a 4" phone?

[Cashmonee]

In all fairness, I don't know it is accurate to say that people don't want a 4" phone because no one makes an up to date phone. And why would they? I am certain the margins on much higher on the XR, XS, and XS Max because they can up the cost to the customer more than the increase to their own cost. Same thing is happening in the car industry. Sedans and wagons are out because car companies are pushing people to the more profitable truck and CUV/SUV categories. Can't buy the low margin phone or car if it does not exist.

 

[JPack]

In all fairness, I don't know it is accurate to say that people don't want a 4" phone because no one makes an up to date phone. And why would they? I am certain the margins on much higher on the XR, XS, and XS Max because they can up the cost to the customer more than the increase to their own cost. Same thing is happening in the car industry. Sedans and wagons are out because car companies are pushing people to the more profitable truck and CUV/SUV categories. Can't buy the low margin phone or car if it does not exist.

Apple already tried the experiment called SE. Not enough customers bought it. It was 2 generations newer than iPhone 5s, yet 4" users kept jumping ship to larger phones.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...tite-sized-phone.2136943/page-8#post-26468426

 

[Cashmonee]

Apple already tried the experiment called SE. Not enough customers bought it. It was 2 generations newer than iPhone 5s, yet 4" users kept jumping ship to larger phones.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...tite-sized-phone.2136943/page-8#post-26468426

Sure. But the SE was a recycled design with ok internals. I am not saying people would buy a 4" phone. They probably wouldn't. However, it is in Apple's interest to not sell a 4" phone because they cannot mark it up as much as a larger screen phone. So even if there was the potential for demand, they wouldn't make it. For example, there will be no XR with 4" screen if for no other reason than Apple could not charge enough for it to keep the same margin as an XR. A XR and 4" XR-type device would likely have a very similar build cost (just as the XS and XS Max likely do), but Apple can charge significantly more for a 6" or so screen than a 4" (just like they do with the XS and XS Max).

 

[RudySnow]

You anti-SE fanbois think that us Pro-SE folks are obsessed with screen size, or price. Most aren’t—it’s the straight-edge form factor, non-slippery sides that feel like soap. I’ll accept a 5-inch screen if the body remains the same as the SE.

And dongles? You anti-SE fanbois like dongles? Some of us don’t want to charge yet another device that only gets a few hours of “extended” use—you know, like bluetooth headphones. And some of us still like Touch ID more than face recognition. None of the “XS Plus Max Super-Duper” models offer either option.

As for price, some of us aren’t Richie Rich yearly upgraders either. And subsidies? I like owning my phones out of the gate. Same reason I don’t use credit cards—pay for what you can afford, not what you can subsidize.

And life without memoji was just fine before the X. Taking photos of my kids and cats work great with a 12MP rear camera.

So let us gripe, since that’s all we have left. The SE is gone; you win. I’ve used Apple products since 1985 and many discontinued products have disappointed me. One day, you’ll know the feeling.

At least the Browns won yesterday. That’s why we hang on to hope.

 

[JPack]

Sure. But the SE was a recycled design with ok internals. I am not saying people would buy a 4" phone. They probably wouldn't. However, it is in Apple's interest to not sell a 4" phone because they cannot mark it up as much as a larger screen phone. So even if there was the potential for demand, they wouldn't make it. For example, there will be no XR with 4" screen if for no other reason than Apple could not charge enough for it to keep the same margin as an XR. A XR and 4" XR-type device would likely have a very similar build cost (just as the XS and XS Max likely do), but Apple can charge significantly more for a 6" or so screen than a 4" (just like they do with the XS and XS Max).

Some consumers wanted an updated 4" design; they got their wish in 2016 with the SE. It was fast, had plenty of RAM, and a much better camera along with Apple Pay. It simply wasn't popular enough.

Profit is profit for Apple. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't have made the $399 SE to begin with. The SE cost $160 for Apple to build, so their profit was only $240. During the same time period, Apple was earning $400-500 per iPhone 6/6 Plus in profit.

Historically, Apple uses a 2.5-3.0X multiplier for their cost to MSRP. That's why supply chain analysts can predict with a high degree of accuracy the retail price of Max and XR.

This means if Apple wanted to build a $599 thin-bezel 4" device, they would only need to shave about $50-60 off their bill of materials compared to iPhone XR. This is entirely possible with a smaller display and less base storage. The XR has a BOM of $240-270.

 

[jigzaw]

Honest to Christmas, I had the 5S for a couple years and now I have an X and while my memory may be skewed... aside from being maybe a smidge longer... is it really THAT much bigger physically that the old 4-inch screen phones?

Granted the screen real estate has certainly grown but those old phones had monster bezels. The X in my hand truly doesn't feel enormous compared to my memory of the 5...

Of course, you like what you like, and if you really love the design of the 5 then I'm not going to say it's wrong. I still have love for the design of the 4S with its pretty glass back (which I appreciate having back in the X now).. I think that was really one of the most beautiful iPhone designs ever. But that really has more to do with my nostalgia for that time and for my being blown away by Siri (sounds quaint now, huh?).

 

[dan98]

Phone on the right - fits perfectly into the hand, grips easily, requires one hand for full operation, fits easily into small pocket.

Phone on the left - feels bulky in one hand, less secure to hold, requires two hands to use, constantly makes it presence felt inside trouser pocket.

Both phones perform more or less identical functions.

Is this progress? Apparently so.

 

[Cashmonee]

Some consumers wanted an updated 4" design; they got their wish in 2016 with the SE. It was fast, had plenty of RAM, and a much better camera along with Apple Pay. It simply wasn't popular enough.

Profit is profit for Apple. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't have made the $399 SE to begin with. The SE cost $160 for Apple to build, so their profit was only $240. During the same time period, Apple was earning $400-500 per iPhone 6/6 Plus in profit.

Historically, Apple uses a 2.5-3.0X multiplier for their cost to MSRP. That's why supply chain analysts can predict with a high degree of accuracy the retail price of Max and XR.

This means if Apple wanted to build a $599 thin-bezel 4" device, they would only need to shave about $50-60 off their bill of materials compared to iPhone XR. This is entirely possible with a smaller display and less base storage. The XR has a BOM of $240-270.

I don't disagree with you per se. I don't know that there is a huge demand for a 4" phone. However, we have no idea how Apple is calculating margins, nor what the cost to build the devices is. Most of what I have seen says the reported build costs are usually wildly inaccurate. Having said that, I do believe it is safe to say Apple is able to raise the sale price as the phones go up in features and size at a faster rate than their cost rises. Since they know they won't lose customers by not releasing a 4" phone that likely will not make as much in profit as a more expensive phone, they simply eliminate the 4" phone and gain profit. As I said, we see the same trend in the auto industry where manufacturers can charge significantly more for trucks, CUVs, and SUVs that don't cost that much more to build than their car counterparts.

 

[Septercius]

smart phone manufacturers believe the consumer prefers larger displays

It would be interesting to know whether this is actually the case, or it's a case of the manufacturers leading customers by shifting over to larger sizes because they can make more money from them. Apple has shown the rest of the industry that customers are more than willing to spend upwards of $1K on a mobile device. Personally, I think that's a ridiculous amount to spend on a phone - I could buy three SEs for that much!

Yes, but as the industry moves on from small phones, why not at least try to adapt?

The reason I for one prefer the SE is due to the size of my hands. They aren't large. Unfortunately, it is not possible to make my hands larger, though I'm sure if I looked at my spam folder there would probably be some pills advertised that have that effect.

Larger phones are just not as comfortable or as pleasant for me to use. And they're not as easy to use either. I can use my SE with one hand and reach all areas of the screen without repositioning the phone. It is quite disruptive to have to shift the phone around to access things in different corners or on different edges of the screen.

As for the original question, send Apple a polite message via their feedback page, asking them to make a smaller phone.

 

[44267547]

It would be interesting to know whether this is actually the case, or it's a case of the manufacturers leading customers by shifting over to larger sizes because they can make more money from them.

Of course its about the money, that’s why these companies (Including Apple) are all out to make a profit by having inflated prices with these larger devices. Look back and reflect how Apple has grown over the last five years, ‘bigger is better’ is their motto right now. The iPhone has shifted from where started from a 3.5 inch display 10 years ago to now offering a 6.5 iPhone, ‘double’ the size of a smart phone with more than double the price tag, the iPad is another great example of how that grown with larger displays. (I.e 7.9->9.7->10.5->12.9).

I Already mentioned it before, but Apple likes to ration their features, and they’re placing the more emphasized up-to-date latest technological features into these larger devices, especially being the iPhone.

Now, let’s take the iPhone 7 Plus for example. Almost 90% of Apples marketing was geared towards the dual camera when they introduced it, and the 4.7 inch iPhone had very little marketing, at all. Why? Because Apple *Wants* the consumer to buy their larger, more expensive device basically saying ‘If you want this feature, then you have to pay this price tag.’

Now we do have to take into consideration that with these larger smart phones, components are more expensive because technology has changed with things like Face ID, 3D Touch modules, larger batteries, upgrade cameras, ect.

 

[TantalizedMind]

View attachment 786459

Phone on the right - fits perfectly into the hand, grips easily, requires one hand for full operation, fits easily into small pocket.

Phone on the left - feels bulky in one hand, less secure to hold, requires two hands to use, constantly makes it presence felt inside trouser pocket.

Both phones perform more or less identical functions.

Is this progress? Apparently so.

The better phone is on the right.

 

[DNichter]

It would be interesting to know whether this is actually the case, or it's a case of the manufacturers leading customers by shifting over to larger sizes because they can make more money from them. Apple has shown the rest of the industry that customers are more than willing to spend upwards of $1K on a mobile device. Personally, I think that's a ridiculous amount to spend on a phone - I could buy three SEs for that much!



The reason I for one prefer the SE is due to the size of my hands. They aren't large. Unfortunately, it is not possible to make my hands larger, though I'm sure if I looked at my spam folder there would probably be some pills advertised that have that effect.

Larger phones are just not as comfortable or as pleasant for me to use. And they're not as easy to use either. I can use my SE with one hand and reach all areas of the screen without repositioning the phone. It is quite disruptive to have to shift the phone around to access things in different corners or on different edges of the screen.

As for the original question, send Apple a polite message via their feedback page, asking them to make a smaller phone.

That makes sense. I don’t have large hands either, but I have found that when I use a smartphone, I am using it with two handsome mostly. If I’m in a situation where I only have one hand available, I figure I shouldn’t be using a smartphone. That very well just be me though and everyone is different. Lastly, is a .7 inch difference really enough to make or break this experience. I may be off base and certainly don’t want to be rude, but I just struggle to see that big of a difference in that .7 inches. Maybe I can just adjust quickly, but I never even think about the size of my Xs Max now that I’ve had it for a day.

 

[SeattleMoose]

I may be off base and certainly don’t want to be rude, but I just struggle to see that big of a difference in that .7 inches. Maybe I can just adjust quickly, but I never even think about the size of my Xs Max now that I’ve had it for a day.

Imagine if you liked petite women and all the new models were 6 feet tall and overweight. By the logic of you phablet fan boys, you would just "adjust" and bend over. I on the other hand, would go MGTOW.

 

[BorderingOn]

Wish they'd stop calling it an i'Phone'.

The phone part is becoming increasingly irrelevant for a lot of people. I use the call function on the device a couple of times a week at best, and would rather not have to use it at all. It's noisy, not private, and the person on the other end of the line has to be available right at that very moment.

Quite old fashioned.

Interesting perspective. Some humans prefer to interact in real time. I also see far too many people using speakerphone while holding the phone like a tray, and while driving.

OP, why not just keep using it? You do seem to be happy with it. Would a new model really be all that different?

 

[smirking]

This is the perfect iphone and Apple just killed it.

At some point in the next 5 years or so, I think we'll start to see some smaller phones again. They won't ever be the norm like they were, but technology seems to be like fashion in this sense. Once things go out of style, the demand for it starts to slowly regenerate. Many people who were once drawn to the shiny new object of big is always better start to then be more open to the idea that big isn't better, convenience is.

That said, I think small phone offerings is going to be limited to a iPhone SE type device once every so many years.

 

[actcyclist]

I had a look at the new iPhones in the store yesterday. It's really going to be a grudge purchase to replace my SE when I eventually have to.
I do see a lot of people around with 4" phones (can't tell if it's a 5/5s or SE) so perhaps if enough people hold onto them and don't buy a bigger model, Apple will respond with an iPhone X Mini?

In the meantime, I want to see just how long an iPhone SE can last and I'll get a back up device. The camera might start getting out of date in 2019/2020 but I wanted to get a pro camera anyway for travelling.

 

[OTACORB]

I am pretty sure Apple has looked at how many they have sold and most of these SE's have turned into give away phones with carriers. I used the SE for a few days recently and I was so glad to give that thing back to our IT department. I was like that was freaking painful, I'd rather go without a phone then to deal with that again. Hey.. different strokes for different folks! That tiny keyboard makes me cringe. I will be totally surprised if Apple ever makes another small phone like that.

 

[1144557]

Basic economics. Not enough SEs were being sold to justify the R&D and costs to produce a new one. Yes some people wanted 4", but a small fraction of total sales.

Anything else is simply an emotional response to your personal tastes.

 

[Lowhangers]

Honest to Christmas, I had the 5S for a couple years and now I have an X and while my memory may be skewed... aside from being maybe a smidge longer... is it really THAT much bigger physically that the old 4-inch screen phones?

Granted the screen real estate has certainly grown but those old phones had monster bezels. The X in my hand truly doesn't feel enormous compared to my memory of the 5...

Of course, you like what you like, and if you really love the design of the 5 then I'm not going to say it's wrong. I still have love for the design of the 4S with its pretty glass back (which I appreciate having back in the X now).. I think that was really one of the most beautiful iPhone designs ever. But that really has more to do with my nostalgia for that time and for my being blown away by Siri (sounds quaint now, huh?).

Here is some info from this URL: http://www.vodafone.co.uk/compare/apple/iphone-x-vs-iphone-se/

Size and Weight

IPHONE X

Height 143.6 mm (5.65 inches)
Width 70.9 mm (2.79 inches)
Depth 7.7 mm (0.30 inches)
Weight 174 grams (6.14ounces)

IPHONE SE

Height 123.8 mm (4.87 inches)
Width 58.6 mm (2.31inches)
Depth 7.6 mm (0.30 inches)
Weight 113 grams (3.99 ounces)

 

[ectospheno]

Life is change. Embrace that or embrace being just a little unhappy all the time. Your choice.

 

[Lowhangers]

Life is change. Embrace that or embrace being just a little unhappy all the time. Your choice.

I don't need to embrace anything, I have an SE that works great, and I have another one as a backup. I will roll with my SE until Apple produces another version of it or something in a similar size. I have no need to buy another phone, and I won't need to for at least 3 - 5 years.

As far as the X line of phone goes, no way. Size aside, I hate the ugly notch and I have no need for Face ID or any of the other stuff. However, if Apple had released an updated SE, I would have been glad to buy one for a hefty price. They didn't, so I went with the current SE and it only cost me $320 for two phones. That's far less than any of the ugly X phones.
[doublepost=1537662973][/doublepost]

Basic economics. Not enough SEs were being sold to justify the R&D and costs to produce a new one. Yes some people wanted 4", but a small fraction of total sales.

Anything else is simply an emotional response to your personal tastes.

Not true, see this story: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/26/iphone-se-demand-is-strong/

iPhone SE sold very well indeed, more than Apple expected. A newer version would also have sold well, but Apple prefers the bigger phones as they think they can charge more for them.

 

[x-evil-x]

You anti-SE fanbois think that us Pro-SE folks are obsessed with screen size, or price. Most aren’t—it’s the straight-edge form factor, non-slippery sides that feel like soap. I’ll accept a 5-inch screen if the body remains the same as the SE.

And dongles? You anti-SE fanbois like dongles? Some of us don’t want to charge yet another device that only gets a few hours of “extended” use—you know, like bluetooth headphones. And some of us still like Touch ID more than face recognition. None of the “XS Plus Max Super-Duper” models offer either option.

As for price, some of us aren’t Richie Rich yearly upgraders either. And subsidies? I like owning my phones out of the gate. Same reason I don’t use credit cards—pay for what you can afford, not what you can subsidize.

And life without memoji was just fine before the X. Taking photos of my kids and cats work great with a 12MP rear camera.

So let us gripe, since that’s all we have left. The SE is gone; you win. I’ve used Apple products since 1985 and many discontinued products have disappointed me. One day, you’ll know the feeling.

At least the Browns won yesterday. That’s why we hang on to hope.

ive been wanting apple to return the the iPhone 4-5 style of shape for years now. ive never really liked the whole curved sides it looks nice and feel good in your hand but is also not my favorite design of phone.
Maybe they'll return the the sandwich style boxy frame for next generation. I think the glass would be more durable as they can make it completely flush inside the body. The design of the 6 and on is so prone to breaking its not even funny. Its not the best design as there is glass that can hit at almost all angles now. The 5 almost had the glass flush it still wants completely flush but much getter than the 4's. the 6 and on is super fragile.
Bring back this style please I think it would be the best designed phone as far as grip and safety for glass breaking.

 

[Lowhangers]

View attachment 786459

Phone on the right - fits perfectly into the hand, grips easily, requires one hand for full operation, fits easily into small pocket.

Phone on the left - feels bulky in one hand, less secure to hold, requires two hands to use, constantly makes it presence felt inside trouser pocket.

Both phones perform more or less identical functions.

Is this progress? Apparently so.

Ha, ha. That is so true! I have an 8 Plus, and it's a fine device but it's a hunk of phone to tote around. And it's tough trying to use it one hand. I prefer having my SE in my front shirt pocket. I can grab it with one hand, and do everything I need to do, and you can't even notice that it's in my pocket. The 8 Plus sticks up like a submarine periscope!

 

[x-evil-x]

View attachment 786459

Phone on the right - fits perfectly into the hand, grips easily, requires one hand for full operation, fits easily into small pocket.

Phone on the left - feels bulky in one hand, less secure to hold, requires two hands to use, constantly makes it presence felt inside trouser pocket.

Both phones perform more or less identical functions.

Is this progress? Apparently so.

as far as enjoyment goes in actually using the phone(browsing the web/videos ect) yes its a big improvement for such a small difference in feel(5.8"model). The X and XS really arent uncomfortable. The plus style phones have annoyances you notice right away. But the tradeoff for actually using the phone are worth it to me. I loved the X for a year it felt much better than the plus's I used to have but just got the XS max and the screen is amazing. Instantly I felt what annoyed me with the plus phones again though. But its a tradeoff

 

[Lowhangers]

Here's an interesting Reddit thread. Note how some Max owners are NOT happy with their new phablet. Food for thought, but I can honestly say I'm not surprised. I figured there would be regrets once people started using it, after paying such a high price for it.

Anyone not 100% happy with the Xs Max?
https://new.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/9huyz8/anyone_not_100_happy_with_the_xs_max/