Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
"By checking this box, I confirm that I understand that sideloading apps will reduce the privacy and security of my data, and Apple will not be responsible for any privacy leakage"

Sorted

Right up until something bad happens and people (and the press) blame Apple regardless.

It’s not facts that matter, but perception.
 
Apple needs to side load a new CEO; he's egregiously overstepped his boundaries and so clearly wants to be a politician.

Why would they? Apple, as a public company, have a responsibility to make money. Tim allows the company to do that.
 
I have said it before, if they are forced to allow Sideloading they should be able to enforce the App being on Apple's App Store too. Just like my stance for "right to repair", as long as I can get with Apple and have them fix it you can do whatever you want with your device. Same concept here, as long as I can keep my walled garden and be GUARANTEED (by Apple policy) that every and ALL apps will ALSO be on the Apple App Store, I have no issue with this. But this won't happen. Therefore, some apps will require sideloading because it is exclusive on the Epic App Store for example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sophisticatednut
Apple is greedy, thats the biggest issue here
And you think any other public company would do things out of the goodness of their hearts? Companies purely exist for money. Its frustrating hearing non-stop about greed in these posts. Been hearing it 13 years ago. I hear it now. Microsoft is greedy! Adobe is greedy! ALL companies are greedy!
 
I don't know where at any point I said it was about Piracy. That's a whole other issue that developers will lose out on. If you want to touch on that subject yes there are ways to pirate. Sideloading and making it easier will make it worse I don't know how you can disagree to that. Look at any gaming console that went from needing a modchip to just exploiting something and see how much piracy destroyed things like the PSP as it got easier.

Epic and others have flat out said they charge more because they have to. The idea that they will charge less is a lie plain and simple. There have been posts that things are expensive on the appstore because that 30% is factored into app store prices. Once again no developer is going to rejoice and pass the savings onto you.

Also what I am emphasizing is if this means companies are not giving Apple their cut Apple will make up for it against users.

Maybe the issue is this is more than sideloading and more of the bypassing Apple's payment systems.

Where are you getting its not about profits? That's literally the argument of all the lawsuits. I know you're not trying to make the argument that its about the fringe cases of wanting to install apps that violate government rules or to have the convenience of having an adult app.

So please enlighten me what it's all about?
Hey man... Based on your original post, it seems that you’re able to see the future to a humorous degree and know exactly what would happen, so maybe arguing with you is pointless.

This isn’t a hot issue because Apple’s profits are at risk. It’s a hot issue because a small but noteworthy subset of users and devs want to have more control over their expensive devices which they spend more time on than any other device — a totally reasonable ask — and Apple is going to federal courts arguing that this is solely about protecting Users, which is nonsense. There ARE ways of protecting Users AND allowing sideloading, but not in a way that favors Apple financially. Boo hoo.

Sideloading has been an option on Android since the start. Serious question: What major Android Devs/Apps (Epic aside) are distributed outside of the Play Store? You make is seem like Devs will bail on the App Store in droves to make another 15 cents per app sold, and Users will be happy to do so, because?????

Any normal-ass developer would shrivel up and die if they tried to release a sideloaded app which could exist on the Play or App Store. Are any Android Devs thriving this way? How are you so confident that your apocalyptic sideloading fantasy will come to fruition?
 
Sounds like you are assuming the "solution" will not include sandboxing and allow root level. Why?
Cydia was more of a GUI style gatekeeper that allowed linking to specific "stores".

My biggest complaint at this time is not if, but the assumption by some here that they know the Apple solution and are playing the extreme negative what if game. Even IF the solution was the current Android design, that would be the worst case scenario and is far more moderate than what is being "OMG the world is ending" pushed by some here.
Interesting you assume any solution would be tamper-proof. I don't assume, it is known that if a solution to bypass a control exists, it will be exploited.

Agreed on the "OMD word is ending".
 
  • Haha
Reactions: dk001
While Apple does keep data on its users, it’s not tracking data, and it’s all anonymized, and they don’t sell the data. I know this to be true, because they say it it. I choose to believe that they are telling the truth because, Apple loves money, and if they were to be caught in a lie, their value would plummet. No organization is able to keep that kind of secret. Even governments cant keep all their secrets, and they have the ability and legal means to eliminate people that leak data.


Yeah sure, ops a bug, we are so sorry, next tine we spy better on you.

 
So why wouldn't that dev claim apples bug bounty. Why would he want to do what ever bad thing you want to imagine.
A normal developer won't pass it, but someone looking to gain access to certain areas of the OS will. They could make a bigger payout that way than through Apple.

Think of it as selling an exploit that can expose data to others.
 
Even if it was, what’s so bad becoming root on demand? Installing Software and becoming the Admin of your own hardware is nothing reprehensible.

Hey look, he can manage his own hardware, let’s stone him, he shall not have free will…

It's not about the user controlling the root. It's about what an app with malicious intent controlling the root does. Once a malicious app has root access, there is little you can do to stem the flow of data from your device if the app so wishes.

The premise here is not about tech knowledgeable people, but about the average person that can find it hard to discern in a sea of "knowledge" and scams. People will fall for bogus apps, just like they fall for financial scams or phishing attempts.

At least right now, that failure mode is not present on an iPhone.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cupcakes2000
Dunno what you do with your workstation, but mine has far more sensitive information than any iOS device i own, e.g. Access to important Databases, Business Financial Stuff, Software Sources and CAD data and its technical specifications that is under NDA, access to customer infrastructure accounts, Online Banking, signed Documents, Emails, etc. Furthermore, iOS syncs everything(locations, contacts, etc.) per default to the iCloud, which ends on your Desktop anyway.

Tim Crooks false statements and excuses serves only to protect Apples profits with anticompetitive practices.
That is why businesses are suffering. Classic desktop and server method is not good for security. I dealt with a client that got their entire server encrypted due to ONE EMAIL. And it spread across network drives and their own computer. Leading to the entire business shutting down for a day while we restored terabytes of data from a backup. It happens a lot. And sometimes you are infected/spied without noticing it.

 
It's not about the user controlling the root. It's about what an app with malicious intent controlling the root does. Once a malicious app has root access, there is little you can do to stem the flow of data from your device if the app so wishes.
There is a simple solution for this, just like on macOS…


1649802725157.jpeg
 
There is a simple solution for this, just like on macOS…


View attachment 1990627
I will respond as I was editing my post earlier. But not everyone knows the way. Moreover, not everyone can follow a set of instructions in case of said issues due to a malicious app. The average person simply won't and can't. More tech knowledgeable people can and might (depending on complexity). But it's a can of worms it is best left unopened.
 
I see a lot of people attacking Apple and Tim for "privacy" stating this is all for profits. We have far more proof of Apple wanting to be secure than just doing things for profit. Forcing a backdoor in iOS when FBI wanted to - remember that?
 
I see a lot of people attacking Apple and Tim for "privacy" stating this is all for profits. We have far more proof of Apple wanting to be secure than just doing things for profit. Forcing a backdoor in iOS when FBI wanted to - remember that?
Agreed, I mentioned this before and it was ignored. Apple has several times refused to create special doors into the OS itself for any government.
 
"By checking this box, I confirm that I understand that sideloading apps will reduce the privacy and security of my data, and Apple will not be responsible for any privacy leakage"

Sorted

Sorted? Really....?
No.
The "bad actors", hell let's just name them. Facebook. Those guys will remove their apps from the App Store and make their apps available on some other "freedom app store" which will have ZERO privacy protection and a very long legal Ts&Cs which the user has to agree to allowing all sorts abuses of privacy and personal data.
Yeah you could just not install their apps which is what I intend to do but it'll happen.
Apple looks after the masses who aren't tech savvy and switched on about these things (my mother and her sister come immediately to mind). They are the ones that naively do what ever the screen tells them to do.
It's the tech savvy minority who want sideloading. What for, I really don't know, but they feel it is a right they must have and to hell with everyone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cupcakes2000
Agreed, I mentioned this before and it was ignored. Apple has several times refused to create special doors into the OS itself for any government.

That you know about..

Do you honestly believe Apple doesn't work with law enforcement and just keep quiet about it?

Corporations telling the government to pound sand is never a strategy that works over the long term.
 
So local scanning for CSAM would make Apple profit how exactly?

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the - thankfully failed - local scanning for CSAM was. It was an attempt to make the scanning of personal documents - uploaded to Apple servers - more secure. Now if you don’t believe that items you store in the cloud should be scanned, you should probably start getting politically vocal, since that is the direction US and EU legislation is heading.
THANK YOU! I for one, did not mind the core CSAM idea. My concern was the neural/AI tracking changes of the images and how it could cause some false positives. I already deal with CSAM on some services that scan for it. And like you said, how would it make Apple profit? Apple is between a rock and a hard place on this one. If they don't do something, they will become the Safe Haven for CSAM content.
 
The "bad actors", hell let's just name them. Facebook. Those guys will remove their apps from the App Store and make their apps available on some other "freedom app store" which will have ZERO privacy protection and a very long legal Ts&Cs which the user has to agree to allowing all sorts abuses of privacy and personal data.

Why are they in the Google Play store and not forcing users to sideload and do all the scary things you mention?


Screen Shot 2022-04-12 at 16.46.07.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001
That is why businesses are suffering. Classic desktop and server method is not good for security. I dealt with a client that got their entire server encrypted due to ONE EMAIL. And it spread across network drives and their own computer. Leading to the entire business shutting down for a day while we restored terabytes of data from a backup. It happens a lot. And sometimes you are infected/spied without noticing it.

Sounds like they had an incompetent administrator or didn’t invest into their infrastructure. No backup, no mercy.
It’s usually the outcome of lazyness, and user accounts with to much access rights and no honeypots nor real-time file and dir access monitoring.

I know, happens all the time, but does not justify anticompetitive practices and vendor lock-in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001
"So local scanning for CSAM would make Apple profit how exactly?" It's actually a very simple calculus.

In Apple's view, local scanning for CSAM would be viewed as a value-add for their customers and a product differentiator.
They very likely concluded this would make the device more attractive to families, especially since court records revealed they had strategies in place to keep parents from giving their kids Android phones.

The net expected result = more sales and more money. Not exactly a leap of logic.

The bad press kinda messed with their narrative but there's no way they concluded: "Hey Tim, we're going to get a lot of heck for this and it likely won't make us any more money but let's ship it anyway".

This ain't rocket surgery.
This is a serious spin on a feature. That is like saying hiring more staff at a hospital to take care of more patients is PURELY for profit - yeah the fact that you can help MORE patients means nothing then?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.