Tim Cook discussion thread [merged]

[Azathoth123]

Apple needs to be run less like a big corporation catering to shareholders but more as a company making great products for computer and consumer electronics enthusiasts and pushing technology forward. Too bad we are seeing more and more price gouging on incremental updates.

As far as how public companies are run, all public companies have a legal fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. If they want to forego those responsibilities and the aspects of business that responsibility brings, they can go private.

As far as great products, IMO they’re doing well - the most powerful SOCs enabling new features, FaceID, Watch, AirPods, ... And they just had the second best quarter of their history.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

Well, you probably base your buying decisions on features and what iOS can do for you, not how the phone looks correct? Probably throw it in a case maybe?

I buy based on looks because my needs are simple and any crap flip phone can do what I need. I keep my devices as primary use devices for 3.5 years or more. Then they move down to secondary devices until they finally die. In all of that time, since I do not use cases, I want to like the device I am looking at whenever I am using it.

So, it's all about aesthetics for me. Just my preference.

I normally agree with you but this is the one thing I can't understand. You won't upgrade from your 6S because you don't like the camera bump on the newer models (and the jailbreak, which I do get), but the camera bump on the 6S produces the same uneven rock when on a table as the 8/X series. On top of that, it's much more hideous than the newer models.

The 6 series was so boring and the antenna briefs just look silly.

 

[eyoungren]

I normally agree with you but this is the one thing I can't understand. You won't upgrade from your 6S because you don't like the camera bump on the newer models (and the jailbreak, which I do get), but the camera bump on the 6S produces the same uneven rock when on a table as the 8/X series. On top of that, it's much more hideous than the newer models.

View attachment 816904 View attachment 816905

The 6 series was so boring and the antenna briefs just look silly.

I disagree that the camera bump on the 6 series looks worse. It's a round circle. Later phones developed a much bigger circle and are now pill shaped and pushed out. This is not to say that I actually LIKE the camera bump on the 6 series. I don't and never have.

I went to the 6 series because after 3 years of suffering with my much liked iPhone 5 through 3G only, poor coverage and poor network on Sprint, I wanted satisfaction. So I forced a deal out of them for a 6+. I never upgraded because I WANTED or LIKED that phone, it was simply to get even with Sprint.

When I ported to T-Mobile I had to get a new phone anyway so I just upgraded to a 6s+. Again, not because I wanted or liked, but because it's what was available to me. At the time the hope was that the 7/7+ would have a design change. Had I known they would not, I would have taken the opportunity at that time to move to Android.

From that point on though, I've intentionally skipped the 7/7+, 8/8+ and the X/XS/XS Max/XR.

As far as rock, that's only something I have issue with simply because the bump means it won't lay flat.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

I disagree that the camera bump on the 6 series looks worse. It's a round circle. Later phones developed a much bigger circle and are now pill shaped and pushed out. This is not to say that I actually LIKE the camera bump on the 6 series. I don't and never have.

I went to the 6 series because after 3 years of suffering with my much liked iPhone 5 through 3G only, poor coverage and poor network on Sprint, I wanted satisfaction. So I forced a deal out of them for a 6+. I never upgraded because I WANTED or LIKED that phone, it was simply to get even with Sprint.

When I ported to T-Mobile I had to get a new phone anyway so I just upgraded to a 6s+. Again, not because I wanted or liked, but because it's what was available to me. At the time the hope was that the 7/7+ would have a design change. Had I known they would not, I would have taken the opportunity at that time to move to Android.

From that point on though, I've intentionally skipped the 7/7+, 8/8+ and the X/XS/XS Max/XR.

As far as rock, that's only something I have issue with simply because the bump means it won't lay flat.

I admire your "stick-to-it-iveness" I've been telling myself over the years that I'm satisfied and there's no reason to upgrade my phone yet I spend the money every year nonetheless. I like my XS but there are days that I wish I had an SE or a 6S. Phones were so thin and light back then.

 

[olindacat]

My original intent was to have my post in the MBP forum but they moved it. So I'm deleting my original message. I'll just say Tim has made Apple the Marriott of the tech world. Well done. Big, churning money, cheapening everything. This, of course, is purely opinion based on my own feelings, not any heavy research. I just have to pin the tail on the CEO as they make billions more than anyone is worth IMHO.

 

[GoldfishRT]

Dramatic much? Also let’s stop idolizing an incredibly flawed human. He was far from perfect.

The only difference between Apple then and now is the environment around Apple. Under Steve’s leadership they had plenty of engineering blunders and confounding design decisions. The thing is in 2019 we have many other consumer electronics that have largely caught up on the hardware front. I’d still argue that MacOS has some significant advantages but Apple is no longer one of only a few companies building computers and phones that aren’t garbage.

For the record, go on Reddit to the Dell, ThinkPad, Razer, or any other high end PC manufacturer forum and you will see the same amount of problems with different things. Nobody builds a flawless product and the market seems to think good QC is too expensive right now so batteries are bulging, displays are bleeding, ports are loose, fans are rattling, keyboards are detaching - all things that routine checks and a power on at the line would catch but they ship it either without checking or without caring. This is an industry issue as far as I’m concerned. Apple just does it while still charging more. It’s hard to sell new computers right now.

More to the point.

The only thing I’d argue Steve would be doing better... the man was incredibly good at selling the potential, ideals, and benefits of a product and the image of a company. Apple still tries but on the whole lacks the same charisma. Where Steve projected unwavering confidence Tim’s leadership team is far more cautious and thoughtful - but it comes off more as wavering and like they don’t have quite as clear of a direction.

And I don’t blame them for that, think about the state of computing right now. Where do we go from here? Well, Apple clearly thinks the future is much more in services because as of now nobody has a great idea of where to take computing next. A great product fulfills a need, all the better if it does it better than others, and the best of them fulfill a need that people didn’t know they had. Until significant improvements in wearables, the next great product is unlikely to be hardware.

That’s just my 2 cents.

Edit: And don't get me wrong, I have issues with how Apple is doing a lot of things but I can't think of a time where I didn't feel that way since I was a teenager and got my first PowerBook. For lack of a better word, I think Apple has gotten too big for its britches. From what I've read, they are like a giant company that still internally run like some small boutique computer business.

 

[olindacat]

Dramatic much? Also let’s stop idolizing an incredibly flawed human. He was far from perfect.

The only difference between Apple then and now is the environment around Apple. Under Steve’s leadership they had plenty of engineering blunders and confounding design decisions. The thing is in 2019 we have many other consumer electronics that have largely caught up on the hardware front. I’d still argue that MacOS has some significant advantages but Apple is no longer one of only a few companies building computers and phones that aren’t garbage.

For the record, go on Reddit to the Dell, ThinkPad, Razer, or any other high end PC manufacturer forum and you will see the same amount of problems with different things. Nobody builds a flawless product and the market seems to think good QC is too expensive right now so batteries are bulging, displays are bleeding, ports are loose, fans are rattling, keyboards are detaching - all things that routine checks and a power on at the line would catch but they ship it either without checking or without caring. This is an industry issue as far as I’m concerned. Apple just does it while still charging more. It’s hard to sell new computers right now.

More to the point.

The only thing I’d argue Steve would be doing better... the man was incredibly good at selling the potential, ideals, and benefits of a product and the image of a company. Apple still tries but on the whole lacks the same charisma. Where Steve projected unwavering confidence Tim’s leadership team is far more cautious and thoughtful - but it comes off more as wavering and like they don’t have quite as clear of a direction.

And I don’t blame them for that, think about the state of computing right now. Where do we go from here? Well, Apple clearly thinks the future is much more in services because as of now nobody has a great idea of where to take computing next. A great product fulfills a need, all the better if it does it better than others, and the best of them fulfill a need that people didn’t know they had. Until significant improvements in wearables, the next great product is unlikely to be hardware.

That’s just my 2 cents.

Of course it was dramatic. This is theatre, isn't it?
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Dramatic much? Also let’s stop idolizing an incredibly flawed human. He was far from perfect.

The only difference between Apple then and now is the environment around Apple. Under Steve’s leadership they had plenty of engineering blunders and confounding design decisions. The thing is in 2019 we have many other consumer electronics that have largely caught up on the hardware front. I’d still argue that MacOS has some significant advantages but Apple is no longer one of only a few companies building computers and phones that aren’t garbage.

For the record, go on Reddit to the Dell, ThinkPad, Razer, or any other high end PC manufacturer forum and you will see the same amount of problems with different things. Nobody builds a flawless product and the market seems to think good QC is too expensive right now so batteries are bulging, displays are bleeding, ports are loose, fans are rattling, keyboards are detaching - all things that routine checks and a power on at the line would catch but they ship it either without checking or without caring. This is an industry issue as far as I’m concerned. Apple just does it while still charging more. It’s hard to sell new computers right now.

More to the point.

The only thing I’d argue Steve would be doing better... the man was incredibly good at selling the potential, ideals, and benefits of a product and the image of a company. Apple still tries but on the whole lacks the same charisma. Where Steve projected unwavering confidence Tim’s leadership team is far more cautious and thoughtful - but it comes off more as wavering and like they don’t have quite as clear of a direction.

And I don’t blame them for that, think about the state of computing right now. Where do we go from here? Well, Apple clearly thinks the future is much more in services because as of now nobody has a great idea of where to take computing next. A great product fulfills a need, all the better if it does it better than others, and the best of them fulfill a need that people didn’t know they had. Until significant improvements in wearables, the next great product is unlikely to be hardware.

That’s just my 2 cents.

Edit: And don't get me wrong, I have issues with how Apple is doing a lot of things but I can't think of a time where I didn't feel that way since I was a teenager and got my first PowerBook.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but Jobs did have impact. Tim is watering down, extending the life of things. The iMac was really amazing when it first came out. Compared the brown plastic boxes? Small isn't bad, but the keyboard now are becoming like the glass on the iPad I'm typing on and it stinks. Cook belongs in accounting, not product development is my point. They have, what, hundreds of thousands of employees to make an iPad, a phone, and some computers all iterations of themselves, and an IOS/OS probably all based on similar core programming? The big innovations are just bumps. With their trillions you'd think they could invent something for heavens sake, or at least make a laptop in three years with a keyboard people didn't have so much trouble with. Just my $.02.
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Sad because it's true.

Just means he'll bore the world to tears and create market opportunities. Anybody want to make a new OS with me?

 

[WilliamDu]

What do you guys think of his performance until now? Will he be able to continue Apple's success?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/08/24/tim-cook-first-year-apple-ceo_n_1828218.html

Apple is going down the drain messing with Homepods, multiple emojis and other distractions. I've been using Macs and other Mac computer variations since the LIttle Mac in 1984, including dozens of hardware articles. Apple got on top as THE personal computer companey for the rest of us, not as as a home theater company, an art company, a Beats headphone company (Beats is beaten by any mainstream headphone maker, try a set of Sony 7506's at under $100), and other sidelines. There has been nothing really great since the iPhone. The Classic, the best bang for the buck for storing your music went away, althought the Touch is a pricey but effective replacment. No new imagination. Cook is a businessman, not a great mind like jobs. Bottomline has replaced innovation. Constant obsolescence of computer users. Five years and your iMac is forgotten and support ends. Buy a new one or you have a boat anchor. MacOS and IOS upgrades not awfully inspiring but all that seems to be left for the programmers.

 

[Mendota]

So how many of you are worried about the direction that Tim Cook is taking the company? I for one am seriously worried about Apple with him at the helm. He seems to be compleatly lacking in tech IQ.
I get the impression that he is more interested in making Apple into a investment company rather than a tech company. The constant stream of issues with the current MacBook's is beyond the pale. This started in 2016 and now three years later it is still not right?

As a person that buys most of my Apple products in the after market this is quite upsetting. When the 2016s first launched, I was looking forward to picking one up in the next year or two to replace my 2012... and then the problems started coming in. No way can I buy one of these machines. The time for the keyboard repair would be just about over for that year. As things look now, I will have to wait and pick up a 2015 next year (If there are any left!) and the price might still be quite high given that it is still in such high demand.
How did we come to this? Do you think Steve really understood Tim's limitations? There are just so many missteps in my view. If the iPad Pro is to be a pro device, then why hasn't he set up a "pro" area in the app store for top developers and cut out the 30% usery? Where was he when the new Macs were being designed and quality tested. He doesn't really seem to have any interest. Oh I know there were some mishaps with Steve Jobs, but most of them came from new ideas and products being tried and tested, not established products.

Yes the failing GPU issue might be an exception, but hey, Steve didn't use the same GPU in the next model! Well just my opinion... What does everyone else think?

 

[Cashmonee]

The constant stream of issues with the current MacBook's is beyond the pale.

This is a hyperbolic statement with no real solid evidence to support it. A forum is an echo chamber, not a scientific study.

 

[leman]

The constant stream of issues with the current MacBook's is beyond the pale. This started in 2016 and now three years later it is still not right?

It’s as you said yourself, innovation comes with risks. Cutting edge tech is less tested and predictable. There is a reason why military grade equipment relies on old technology.

As a volume purchaser and user of Apple products I didn’t notice any aparrent decline in quality over the last 12 years. Yeah, current line has some issues but every MBP has them. And no, things were not better in Jobs times. Apple is fairly known for rushing products to the market and people were complaining about it fir a long long time.

As to the rest: Apple now is under more pressure than ever since there are not many obvious areas where one can innovate (they already have computers that are as compact/integrated as is practically possible with current chip tech) so they have to branch out to services and other stuff to keep their edge. Not to mention that the competition has cought up in terms of computer balance and build quality.

 

[Mendota]

This is a hyperbolic statement with no real solid evidence to support it. A forum is an echo chamber, not a scientific study.

The fact that Apple has had to implement a repair program is hardly hyperbolic. Forums represent the user base. If an issue is only posted once or twice and there is not a lot of feedback then it is safe to assume that it is a minor issue. On the other hand when there are multiple posts about certain problems that points to something much larger. Public forums, tech articles, and reviews are how products are judged. What "scientific studies" would you expect to be done?

 

[leman]

The fact that Apple has had to implement a repair program is hardly hyperbolic.

There had an extended repair program or partial recall for most products they had ever made. It’s a fairly standard thing in the industry. People just have short memory. Titanium PowerBooks were prone to falling apart, polycarbonate MacBooks became brittle and discolored with time, unibody models had a history of GPU failures and people were complaining about screen and color issues for as long as I can remember. Also, remember the “antennagate” and “you are holding it wrong”?

It is true that complaint frequency has increased last year, but in my opinion it’s a) because Apple now has a larger user base - and therefore problems are more visible b) it was a component that really got people worried and c) it’s just very popular to bash apple nowadays - there are a lot of people on YouTube that literally make their living off it.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think the Mac line does probably now get less attention than it might have previously, but that reflects it's much diminished importance to the company. From their recent earnings call iPhone is almost 2/3 of Apple's revenue (and due to it's hegemonic status, probably most of the 13% service revenue will be directly tied to the iPhone as well). So in all iPhone is getting on for being responsible for 75% of Apple's revenue. By contrast the mac is 9%, just edging out the iPad at 8% and of course the iPad is also more closely related to the iPhone as well. Remember it's a single engineering team responsible for all the products, there isn't a separate Mac team and iPad team and iPhone team. Therefore their attention has to be split between developing the most important products. I think this is also why we are seeing less important* products being left 2-3-4+ years between updates. With adding more and more products into the mix (HomePod, AirPower, AirPods) the teams are probably just struggling more and more to keep up - likely there aren't the resources available to redevelop faulty keyboard mechanisms, display cables etc outside of emergency patching. The same likely goes for the software team, fixing T2 is probably a pretty complex task, and they're also having to work on iOS 13, MacOS 10.15 and TVOS and WatchOS simultaneously. I doubt the manpower of these teams is keeping pace with the growth in the demand upon them, as people are extremely expensive and the bigger teams get the more difficult they are to manage.

*from a sales/ revenue perspective

 

[Apple_Robert]

I think Apple's obsession with thin products has possibly caused hardware problems over the last few years. Outside of that, I think Apple has done a pretty good job overall.

I don't have a problem with Tim. If people would stop comparing him and expecting him to be Steve, it would give said people better clarity.

 

[Ma2k5]

Whether you like his direction or not, at the end of the day he was put there to make money for Apple, and he made them a lot of money - even taking them to the trillion dollar valuation. It is hard to argue that he has low tech IQ because you are angry about the products when all other tech CEO’s are envious of his success.

I am a huge critic of a lot of Apple products and processes, but numbers don’t lie.

 

[Cashmonee]

The fact that Apple has had to implement a repair program is hardly hyperbolic. Forums represent the user base. If an issue is only posted once or twice and there is not a lot of feedback then it is safe to assume that it is a minor issue. On the other hand when there are multiple posts about certain problems that points to something much larger. Public forums, tech articles, and reviews are how products are judged. What "scientific studies" would you expect to be done?

Apple's repair program is nothing more than an indication it was cheaper to offer extended warranties than to have a legal battle. That is all.

Forums most certainly do not represent the user base. They are a minuscule percentage of users who often are not at all representative of the population as a whole. Further, take a look at the forum. There are not rampant reports of problems. There are round and round discussions like this one that you for some reason decided to start.

As for trying to gather actual usable stats, the only place I know to have done it was AppleInsider. Their stats showed that while the keyboard in the 2016 and 2017 was less reliable, the laptops had fewer instances of warranty repairs in their first year than pre-2016 models. Imagine that. The 2016+ might be more reliable overall.

 

[JagdTiger]

Apple is going down the drain messing with Homepods, multiple emojis and other distractions. I've been using Macs and other Mac computer variations since the LIttle Mac in 1984, including dozens of hardware articles. Apple got on top as THE personal computer companey for the rest of us, not as as a home theater company, an art company, a Beats headphone company (Beats is beaten by any mainstream headphone maker, try a set of Sony 7506's at under $100), and other sidelines. There has been nothing really great since the iPhone. The Classic, the best bang for the buck for storing your music went away, althought the Touch is a pricey but effective replacment. No new imagination. Cook is a businessman, not a great mind like jobs. Bottomline has replaced innovation. Constant obsolescence of computer users. Five years and your iMac is forgotten and support ends. Buy a new one or you have a boat anchor. MacOS and IOS upgrades not awfully inspiring but all that seems to be left for the programmers.

Kinda like that in audio/video (in some cases) world, things are obsolete way to fast.

 

[JagdTiger]

... so go out and upgrade. I just did my duty as a fellow Apple member and upgraded my iPhone. Make Apple great again.

Lower the price of iPhones.

 

[nouveau_redneck]

I would also love to be in the same trouble as Tim:

Tim Cook’s income as Apple CEO totals $701M

https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/30/tim-cook-apple-compensation/

This bean counting, penny pincher POS has been ripping us off for too long now. With his BS small incremental updates, lack of push for innovation, and accelerated price increases. F him!

Yeah, but he likes privacy and its reflected in the products his teams create. I'll forgive the sins you mention for that.

 

[chabig]

The addiction people have these days is instead of enjoying a product it’s addiction to complaining on cult sites.

Well said. Social media is an addiction, and “tech” sites like this really are little more than social media.
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How do suppose to know how much tim makes?

Everyone knows how much he makes. As a public company, Apple is required to report it.

 

[pika2000]

The notion of Apple “failing” is mainly due to the tech bloggers/youtubers who “demanded” new phones every other week so they can play with it and generate money from their YouTube videos. Seriously, think about it. If you don’t read nor watch any tech related YouTube/blog, you won’t actually feel the incessant need of a new product every other week. You just use and enjoy what you have, notice new phones on September, and shrug it off if you don’t need a new phone.

And I don’t get people who keep claiming iPhones to be expensive, yet buys Pixel or Galaxies which are as expensive and only supported for three years max. Meanwhile iPhones are getting at least 5 years of software support.

 

[44267547]

The notion of Apple “failing” is mainly due to the tech bloggers/youtubers who “demanded” new phones every other week so they can play with it and generate money from their YouTube videos. Seriously, think about it. If you don’t read nor watch any tech related YouTube/blog, you won’t actually feel the incessant need of a new product every other week. You just use and enjoy what you have, notice new phones on September, and shrug it off if you don’t need a new phone.

And I don’t get people who keep claiming iPhones to be expensive, yet buys Pixel or Galaxies which are as expensive and only supported for three years max. Meanwhile iPhones are getting at least 5 years of software support.

All good points. And this is why I generally don’t pay attention to YouTube reviews, my preference is user reviews on sites like this, generally give more detailed feedback on what the user really wants to hear, both good and bad, Not some glorified, exaggerated review of a ‘Career Youtuber’ why they believe the iPhone is a certain way. The user makes that determination over any paid Youtuber.

 

[JagdTiger]

... so go out and upgrade. I just did my duty as a fellow Apple member and upgraded my iPhone. Make Apple great again.

Can the iPhone X be lowered to 300.00 dollars?

 

[TMRJIJ]

... so go out and upgrade. I just did my duty as a fellow Apple member and upgraded my iPhone. Make Apple great again.

Glad you are enjoying your new iPhone. I wouldn’t say Tim Cook is in ‘trouble’, however the smartphone market is now fully mature. Nobody is buying these flagship devices when their current models work perfectly fine. Heck, you can easily get by today with a 5 year old iPad. This is an issue for all of the big tech companies, not just Apple.
To ensure expontiential growth, Mr. Cook will have to divert more focus into the “Service” category. The days of traditional hardware being the driving force of revenue are starting to go away. While it certainly won’t be easy (Apple was never really that good at services. Ex. MobileMe, Ping), it is the future of technology.

But no, Tim Cook is not in trouble. He could literally take an entire year off from new products and the company would still be a decade away from being ‘in trouble’