Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[Macalway]

cmd + TAB

cmd + L

you can set safari to display the toolbar at all times

cmd + W

This sounds useful. Would you mind, if I would copy + paste it into this thread?

let me guess. You don't own one

You start to see what's happening here.

Anyway, thanks OP. I haven't been using it enough. (it's new after all-no time). But just did and your right, it's useful.

 

[Omega Mac]

Finally got a store with a new MBP w/TID&Strip. The build of the machine is superb, the keyboard is great and the screen is amazing. All good. I even like the touch-bar feature _a lot_ .

However my only criticism and it's an aesthetic one, is that the OLED strip does not match the same pixel density of the screen. It looks softer and more blurred and this is a real pity because it does not sit seamlessly with the rest of the form.

I do expect revisions at some point will change and address this as the tech is tweaked and matures, but right now from a visual point of view it makes it look like a cheaper screen component. A higher resoution strip/screen would most certainly blend in with the rest of the physical mac. Clearly the photos can not portray this and have been tweaked in advertising to make it look better. I do like it and I found it instantly intuitive. It's a great feature to use.

For all those people who can't resist touching screens they know are not touch responsive, perhaps you enjoy an automatic transmission in your auto-mobile/car. If you learn on a manual transmission, then use an auto-transmission, well imagine that... anyone who knows how to gear shift will get my point. i.e Get over it and drive!

As a designer and child of the 80's GUI revolution. Apple have absolutely made the right interface choice here for the platform. It is the most ergonomically logical choice.

 

[BarracksSi]

However my only criticism and it's an aesthetic one, is that the OLED strip does not match the same pixel density of the screen. It looks softer and more blurred and this is a real pity because it does not sit seamlessly with the rest of the form.

The pixel density is pretty darned close (it's, what, the same as the Watch screen, right?), but what's softening its appearance is the frosted finish of the cover glass.

If you were crazy enough to put a frosted-like "anti glare" film on the main display, it'd match.

 

[danking3]

hey guys, just recieved my new MacBook Pro 15", got a strange touch bar question ..... is there a screen cover over the touch bar display? it kind of feels like there is (matte kind of feel) it also seems super dim? or is that just me ? and way to alter the brightness of the touch bar?

 

[Awjvail]

hey guys, just recieved my new MacBook Pro 15", got a strange touch bar question ..... is there a screen cover over the touch bar display? it kind of feels like there is (matte kind of feel) it also seems super dim? or is that just me ? and way to alter the brightness of the touch bar?

The touch bar has matte glass on it. It is meant to look like an extension of the keyboard.

 

[diddl14]

Try hitting the fn key

Tried it all. Only reboot helped...

 

[spinergy]

The hotkeys are more cumbersome to use and take multiple keystrokes. (...)

Similarly Cmd+L requires two hands, whereas the touchbar requires just one to reach for the search location bar.
(...)

To me it seems using the touchbar is more cumbersome, because I already know these shortcuts and the touchbar doesn't do anything (imho) keystrokes couldn't. Also, cmd + L with two hands? Don't know about your keyboard, but on mine they are like 1 inch or 2cm away...

I get it, the touchbar may be useful to some users as of now. I would like to see more software futures incorporated because currently I personally see it as a gimmick. If you have any ideas, post them in the thread I have linked in my post above.

 

[GastonM]

Spotify just got updated with Touch Bar support

 

[dashwin]

To me it seems using the touchbar is more cumbersome, because I already know these shortcuts and the touchbar doesn't do anything (imho) keystrokes couldn't.

I think it takes time getting used to, that's all. I resisted it at first and over time it has started to be useful.

Also, cmd + L with two hands? Don't know about your keyboard, but on mine they are like 1 inch or 2cm away...

I almost never use the right Cmd as I usually rest my left hand on the Cmd and my right hand on the trackpad while browsing. It's only when I start to type that I may lift my right hand to the keyboard.

I suppose I could change to use the right Cmd+L, even then I just find it easier to touch the touchbar.

I get it, the touchbar may be useful to some users as of now. I would like to see more software futures incorporated because currently I personally see it as a gimmick.

I can see why many may think this is a gimmick. Not everything has hotkeys though and even if they do, I find it easier to reach the touchbar than hit a combination key.

Most resist change and this is a change that requires a reset of how you approach problems. It may not be for everyone. It's similar to a change when a popular program you use changes their UI. The knee jerk reaction is to say that the new interface is more complicated (like when Microsoft Word introduced their ribbon), but over time people will realize that the old ways weren't that great after all.

That said I agree that more apps need this support. I for one am looking forward to Chrome supporting touchbar: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=660126 as Safari with 10.12.2+ has become a HUGE battery hog for me.

 

[Wakey87433]

Microsoft are bound to be getting an upturn in sales because they're finally making some really nice bits of hardware meaning there's another valid option for people who have a chunk of money to drop on a nice laptop.

Problem is as nice as the hardware they are putting out might be Win10 is a piece of **** (as was Win8). If I could have bought a PC running Win7 (without any issues due to hardware not having Win7 drivers) I doubt I would have switched by 4 different win10 installations developed issues that made them unusable until I reinstalled the OS. And the issues came back within months of the reinstall. Its not even as if they were isolated issues either, they were issues that MS support forums and the various other windows and general tech forums are full of endless page threads on them. Its almost as if they put so much focus on the hardware that they took their eye off the OS and we ended up with OS that is a mess
[doublepost=1482512892][/doublepost]

Yesterday I went to the Apple Store and I tried the touchbar.

The shortcuts which I use most are in Office:
- F keys in Excel
- Bold, Underline, Italic in Word
- copy, paste
- alignment in PowerPoint.

TB app for office is not out there, but I tested the touchbar with similar apps. My impression is that the workflow is worse with the TB. I will go through the four cases:
- this can be better with TB than wit F keys. The problem is that is the use case which I have less often
- this is crap. The fact is that when you want to format text, you first select it, either with your keyboard or mouse. After that it is natural to either use the keyboard or the mouse to format the text and I found really cumbersome to have to move my hand on top of the keyboard to reach a shortcut and then back to where it was
- copy and paste same experience as with text formatting. The case where touchbar is better is when you are copying/moving files. In office? No thanks
- alignment in PowerPoint can be actually quite useful, however it would be enough for me if Microsoft would give me the possibility to assign this button to an F key

All in all I found it not really a plus. Actually it was in store that I decided for a MacBook without TB.

Don't buy before testing it yourself. Apple should give us the choice to go with or without it, because it is definitely not for me and probably not for many other users like me..

The problem with 'testing' it is the TB isn't something that instantly is natural in most cases but when you have had time to use it and get used to it then it does become more useful and natural. Take formatting text, initially its more natural to use the mouse but I've found myself more and more using my right hand to select the text and the left hand to quickly click the formatting button I want to use which is actually quicker.
[doublepost=1482513479][/doublepost]

I went an Apple Store this morning and saw the MBProTB for the first time. I love it! I'm ready to make the purchase anytime now, but I'm waiting a week or two. Can't explain why I'm waiting? I noticed when I was playing around with the TB, my finger kept touching the screen. Its like a natural impulse when I'm so use to doing this with my iPhone. Also, I'm not finding the typing comfortable; I'm hoping it's a matter of getting used to this butterfly keyboard, eventually. I'm getting it in Space Gray; the one for $1799. A side note, I was told the AirPods are in-store tomorrow 12/19, so I may pick one of those up as well.

You quickly get used to the keyboard imho and personally I find it a really good typing experience. Only issue I have is the enter key size (which I think is a UK keyboard issue as we have the more traditional shaped button but all the images I see from the us have it as a rectangle key more like the shift). Its very narrow compared to keyboards I'm used to especially at the bottom and I seem to keep hitting the forward slash
[doublepost=1482515187][/doublepost]

Exactly! I use to agree with Apple that I didn't want a touchscreen notebook, I didn't want finger prints, etc. But I have caught myself touching my notebook screen when trying to do some things. After using my iPad and iPhone it just comes naturally. I think a lot of people are doing this, and apple's gimmicky touch bar is just them being stubborn about not adding touch screens. Its funny that they have tried to merge so much of iOS into Mac OS, but thats where they apparently draw the line.

You may reach for it but as someone who has had touch screen laptops you would find the form factor doesn't lend itself to using a touchscreen in any productive way. Where you have a laptop placed for the best typing position it requires stretching somewhat to touch the screen and you have to hold your arm at a height that puts tension on the shoulder. It suits tablets, phones and convertables but doesn't suit conventional laptops and desktops (Although the surface studio and the dell one that was in the adobe presentation seem to have found a way of making desktops in form factors that will work

 

[Wakey87433]

To me it seems using the touchbar is more cumbersome, because I already know these shortcuts and the touchbar doesn't do anything (imho) keystrokes couldn't. Also, cmd + L with two hands? Don't know about your keyboard, but on mine they are like 1 inch or 2cm away...

I get it, the touchbar may be useful to some users as of now. I would like to see more software futures incorporated because currently I personally see it as a gimmick. If you have any ideas, post them in the thread I have linked in my post above.

You are right that there is a cmd key near the L but naturally people just don't use the right sided modifier keys in general even when it would mean easier 1 hand usage. It might be different for left handed people and maybe this is why they have never been changed as the extra space removing the right sided cmd/ctr option/alt and shift keys could be better used

 

[spinergy]

(...) but naturally people just don't use the right sided modifier keys in general (...)

says who? agreed on the option key. I use shift and cmd all the time on either side of the keyboard... just because you don't use them doesn't mean no one uses them. but agreed, using shortcuts feels more natural on the left hand. but when typing in an url, my hands are hovering over the keyboard already anyway. so I could also use my left to press cmd and my right to press L

 

[Wakey87433]

says who? agreed on the option key. I use shift and cmd all the time on either side of the keyboard... just because you don't use them doesn't mean no one uses them. but agreed, using shortcuts feels more natural on the left hand. but when typing in an url, my hands are hovering over the keyboard already anyway. so I could also use my left to press cmd and my right to press L

Says experience of working in the IT industry. Most people do most of their typing with right hand dominance and as such they naturally favour their left hand for the modifiers

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Spotify just got updated with Touch Bar support

Sweet, thx!
[doublepost=1482529765][/doublepost]

says who? agreed on the option key. I use shift and cmd all the time on either side of the keyboard... just because you don't use them doesn't mean no one uses them. but agreed, using shortcuts feels more natural on the left hand. but when typing in an url, my hands are hovering over the keyboard already anyway. so I could also use my left to press cmd and my right to press L

That's my thinking before I used it.

But try using your left hand with keyboard shortcuts for slider controls and knobs in Resolve or Garagband while your right hand continues to use a Wacom or synth. Then you'll see how and why Apple came up with this. It's better than touchscreen too for obvious reasons.

 

[jameslmoser]

You may reach for it but as someone who has had touch screen laptops you would find the form factor doesn't lend itself to using a touchscreen in any productive way. Where you have a laptop placed for the best typing position it requires stretching somewhat to touch the screen and you have to hold your arm at a height that puts tension on the shoulder. It suits tablets, phones and convertables but doesn't suit conventional laptops and desktops (Although the surface studio and the dell one that was in the adobe presentation seem to have found a way of making desktops in form factors that will work

Its funny you say that, because last week I bought a surface pro 4. I find touching the screen while using it like a laptop to work just fine, half the time its just simpler and easier than moving my hand to the track pad and drag the pointer to where I want to click. It apparently is how Apple expects us to use the iPad pro when we have the smart keyboard attached.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Its funny you say that, because last week I bought a surface pro 4. I find touching the screen while using it like a laptop to work just fine, half the time its just simpler and easier than moving my hand to the track pad and drag the pointer to where I want to click. It apparently is how Apple expects us to use the iPad pro when we have the smart keyboard attached.

When you are doing professional work with photos and videos the last thing you want is finger prints obscuring your view. I hate the sight of a dirty monitor.

 

[richinaus]

When you are doing professional work with photos and videos the last thing you want is finger prints obscuring your view. I hate the sight of a dirty monitor.

Touching to edit on the screen with the iPad Pro and keyboard drives me insane....... much more enjoyable with a track pad.
Fingerprints are also an issue.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Touching to edit on the screen with the iPad Pro and keyboard drives me insane....... much more enjoyable with a track pad.
Fingerprints are also an issue.

Touch screens are good for education but until the fingerprint issue goes away they won't be used by the best Pros. Glass screens are not ideal for high end edits anyway.

 

[bakelord]

In macOS I kinda enjoyed the touchbar, although I found shortcuts still much faster in e.g Photoshop. Unfortunately I need to do most of my work in Windows either through parallels or bootcamp, and as a replacement for F keys it's pretty terrible. Having no feedback and not needing to press means it's easy to miss the "key" or hit it accidentally e.g. I tend to rest my hand over F9-F11 in visual studio when debugging, and that's not something you can do without obviously triggering the key. No physical Esc key is not nice either. I ended up taking my Mac back which was really heartbreaking as in every other regard the new MacBook Pro was perfect. If they add force touch style feedback to it and actually require a press I think that would help immeasurably.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

In macOS I kinda enjoyed the touchbar, although I found shortcuts still much faster in e.g Photoshop. Unfortunately I need to do most of my work in Windows either through parallels or bootcamp, and as a replacement for F keys it's pretty terrible. Having no feedback and not needing to press means it's easy to miss the "key" or hit it accidentally e.g. I tend to rest my hand over F9-F11 in visual studio when debugging, and that's not something you can do without obviously triggering the key. No physical Esc key is not nice either. I ended up taking my Mac back which was really heartbreaking as in every other regard the new MacBook Pro was perfect. If they add force touch style feedback to it and actually require a press I think that would help immeasurably.

The Fn and Escape keys are there when you need them exactly the same as ever.

You can use Photoshop shortcuts in conjunction with the toolbar. There's no shortcut or palette as swift as using the visible history slider. Neither is there a keyboard shortcut for multiple undo. The Touchbar let's us go back step by step with one touch. I have waited 26 years for that.

 

[bakelord]

Neither is there a keyboard shortcut for multiple undo. The Touchbar let's us go back step by step with one touch. I have waited 26 years for that.

In windows PS land, ctrl + alt + z is undo a step and you press it repeatedly for multiple steps. Hold shift too and you can go forward.

Edit: hang on, that might be a custom key shortcut I added... it's always been possible to add in the preferences though.

Edit2: nope it's a default keybinding .

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

In windows PS land, ctrl + alt + z is undo a step and you press it repeatedly for multiple steps. Hold shift too and you can go forward.

Edit: hang on, that might be a custom key shortcut I added... it's always been possible to add in the preferences though.

Edit2: nope it's a default keybinding .

Now it's just one key

 

[suleman_kh]

After it wakes up from sleep mode the volume and brightness are not working I have to press that arrow button to open all buttons to use the brightness and volume buttons.

 

[Chrystal Ocean]

Have placed the first item on my Wish List for the Touch Bar:

iBooks: the TB includes useful tools when a user is reading a book on the MBP. However, a notable omission is an icon for accessing the Table of Contents.

 

[Huntn]

If I have a concern about the touchbar is how well will it hold up?

Speaking for myself, I've always loved what Apple came up with. I was a bit skeptical for the upgrade but after using it for one day now I am really loving the new MBP 15".

As for the Touch Bar I am not using it so much, I wish there was a way to have all the "buttons" like changing brightness, dashboard, volume etc. always visible BUT with the Esc-button also available because I use Esc button a lot.

There might be some tricks to get his done like the one @frankgrimes recommended in the last post. As for now I am struggling to find my correct monitor cable and a good hard plastic case

I've not read the entire thread, but discovered you can reassign a key as a hard wired Esc key. I prefer this and am using my Cap's lock key for ESC. As this thread said, who uses a caps lock any more?

https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/25/rema...cbook-pro-macos-sierra-10-12-1-modifier-keys/