Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[Wakey87433]

Funny you start looking for evidence and you run into what looks like a bunch of conflicting or fake news. Is nothing factual anymore?

One site said:

Microsoft: Apple’s MacBook Pro letdown helps Surface sales reach new record

Another site read:

2016 MacBook Pro Sales Defy Critics: Tops All New Laptops With Shoppers

I don't personally believe those have to be conflicting reports. Microsoft could very well be seeing a boom in sales from people who the changes have upset but the 2016 Macbook could still be selling at a rate that critics didn't expect based on the reviews of the new machines
[doublepost=1481904272][/doublepost]

Agreed, its way to easy to accidentally send. I agree with having it there if one would have to hold it for a second to actually send. Anyway here is how to remove it:

Open mail app > create new mail > Click "view" in menu bar > customise touch bar > drag the airplane away from the touch bar. Done!

I'm surprised people have had such issues myself during typing. Surely peoples fingers are far enough away touching the bar . by mistake during typing shouldn't be possible. I could understand if it was while using other TB features but while typing seems a little odd. Maybe I just type in a unusual way though

 

[lamerica80]

I don't personally believe those have to be conflicting reports. Microsoft could very well be seeing a boom in sales from people who the changes have upset but the 2016 Macbook could still be selling at a rate that critics didn't expect based on the reviews of the new machines
[doublepost=1481904272][/doublepost]

I'm surprised people have had such issues myself during typing. Surely peoples fingers are far enough away touching the bar . by mistake during typing shouldn't be possible. I could understand if it was while using other TB features but while typing seems a little odd. Maybe I just type in a unusual way though

Most people probably wont accidentally hit that send icon but when you do, you will regret it. "Send email" is to definite an action not to have any type of conscious action barrier like a 1 second hold on touch bar / movement of mouse and click. Just an accidental tap will do and that half finished email with unchecked possible inaccurate info gets sent off to your boss and entire work team. Not good.

I do like to have a send option on the touch bar but I hope they introduce the option to make you have to hold it just for a second. Its just the nature of emails, its not a WhatsApp chat.

 

[Macalway]

Why not not just make it a programmable key strip? They are treating it like some kind of precious iOS crap. No one's going to blame them if they want to add programming of their own, but I wouldn't mind actually.....using it Maybe I don't want to see worthless, idiotic Safari thumbnails. I got great ideas of my own. You could do so much with this thing, but no, that would mean Apple can't control it totally. Well, sales numbers are going to tank, and then we will see them squirm.

 

[BarracksSi]

Why not not just make it a programmable key strip?

Isn't it programmable?

And with greater flexibility than hardware keys?

So you don't want Safari tabs? You can remove them, right?

 

[Macalway]

Isn't it programmable?

And with greater flexibility than hardware keys?

So you don't want Safari tabs? You can remove them, right?

That's right, I misspoke. What I wanted to say was key mappable. So I could program any key, key combination, in any order. with any icon, stock or user made.

Like my USB X-key keypad that uses the great Controllermate software to map keys. The X-key has removable clear plastic caps. You can cut out little paper cubes to stick under them. You draw the icons yourself. I am using this now, BTW with a program that really needs it.

jail brake

 

[eulslix]

That's not the point of the touch bar ... the contextual nature is it's main strength, as long as third party developers continue integrating their functionality. Also, they are free to integrate whatever concept their imagination comes up with. If it's not your kind of thing ... fine ... that doesn't mean that sales numbers are going to tank therefore however

 

[JohnnyGo]

That's not the point of the touch bar ... the contextual nature is it's main strength, as long as third party developers continue integrating their functionality. Also, they are free to integrate whatever concept their imagination comes up with. If it's not your kind of thing ... fine ... that doesn't mean that sales numbers are going to tank therefore however

+1

The context nature is like a supercharged right-click directly under your eyes/fingertips plus it can allow for direct manipulation of screen effects without covering the screen itself. Genius!

 

[BarracksSi]

Like my USB X-key keypad that uses the great Controllermate software to map keys. The X-key has removable clear plastic caps. You can cut out little paper cubes to stick under them. You draw the icons yourself. I am using this now, BTW with a program that really needs it.

jail brake

This sounds like a pain in the ass. Glad it works for you, but I don't want to spend that much time tinkering.

 

[ascender]

Microsoft are bound to be getting an upturn in sales because they're finally making some really nice bits of hardware meaning there's another valid option for people who have a chunk of money to drop on a nice laptop.

 

[borgusio]

Yesterday I went to the Apple Store and I tried the touchbar.

The shortcuts which I use most are in Office:
- F keys in Excel
- Bold, Underline, Italic in Word
- copy, paste
- alignment in PowerPoint.

TB app for office is not out there, but I tested the touchbar with similar apps. My impression is that the workflow is worse with the TB. I will go through the four cases:
- this can be better with TB than wit F keys. The problem is that is the use case which I have less often
- this is crap. The fact is that when you want to format text, you first select it, either with your keyboard or mouse. After that it is natural to either use the keyboard or the mouse to format the text and I found really cumbersome to have to move my hand on top of the keyboard to reach a shortcut and then back to where it was
- copy and paste same experience as with text formatting. The case where touchbar is better is when you are copying/moving files. In office? No thanks
- alignment in PowerPoint can be actually quite useful, however it would be enough for me if Microsoft would give me the possibility to assign this button to an F key

All in all I found it not really a plus. Actually it was in store that I decided for a MacBook without TB.

Don't buy before testing it yourself. Apple should give us the choice to go with or without it, because it is definitely not for me and probably not for many other users like me..

 

[okieiam]

 

[BarracksSi]

About this part:

- Bold, Underline, Italic in Word
… (snip)
- this is crap. The fact is that when you want to format text, you first select it, either with your keyboard or mouse. After that it is natural to either use the keyboard or the mouse to format the text and I found really cumbersome to have to move my hand on top of the keyboard to reach a shortcut and then back to where it was.

Use a different flow -- pick a format for what you're about to type.

Yes, we can do this now with Cmd-U, etc, then continue typing. But having a formatting button on the Touchbar, while being a little farther of a reach, gives you immediate visual confirmation that the formatting has been selected and is active.

 

[borgusio]

About this part:


Use a different flow -- pick a format for what you're about to type.

Yes, we can do this now with Cmd-U, etc, then continue typing. But having a formatting button on the Touchbar, while being a little farther of a reach, gives you immediate visual confirmation that the formatting has been selected and is active.

The flow you suggest does not solve the issue since tipically I will be changing one single word or a group of words in a sentence. Therefore, doing it before typing the word, means that I have to leave the keyboard and reach the touchbar.

Regarding the visual feedback I agree with you, specially on a MacBook 12 when you go full screen and hide the menu on top. Maybe I will try again before finalizing the order, the shop was quite packed. Another thing which I found strange was to switch between klicking (normal keyboard) and not klicking buttons (TB). It feels odd.

It was not a great first contact, but I can give it a second chance. Only reason being the two more ports which I may actually need... If a nTB with four ports would be available I would have no doubts on what to buy.

 

[okieiam]

 

[Teach4]

I don't personally believe those have to be conflicting reports. Microsoft could very well be seeing a boom in sales from people who the changes have upset but the 2016 Macbook could still be selling at a rate that critics didn't expect based on the reviews of the new machines
[doublepost=1481904272][/doublepost]

I'm surprised people have had such issues myself during typing. Surely peoples fingers are far enough away touching the bar . by mistake during typing shouldn't be possible. I could understand if it was while using other TB features but while typing seems a little odd. Maybe I just type in a unusual way though

I must type in an unusual way to, because I have not had any problems with the touch bar while typing.

 

[BarracksSi]

The flow you suggest does not solve the issue since tipically I will be changing one single word or a group of words in a sentence. Therefore, doing it before typing the word, means that I have to leave the keyboard and reach the touchbar.

Regarding the visual feedback I agree with you, specially on a MacBook 12 when you go full screen and hide the menu on top. Maybe I will try again before finalizing the order, the shop was quite packed. Another thing which I found strange was to switch between klicking (normal keyboard) and not klicking buttons (TB). It feels odd.

It was not a great first contact, but I can give it a second chance. Only reason being the two more ports which I may actually need... If a nTB with four ports would be available I would have no doubts on what to buy.

Yeah, it's not perfect, but at least it doesn't remove any functionality, it's just an add-on.

It can reformat text you've selected, too, of course. Someone else briefly mentioned that it makes picking text colors super-easy, if that's something you need.

I think it's really neat, and both users and developers will figure out how to use it best.

 

[borgusio]

Yeah, it's not perfect, but at least it doesn't remove any functionality, it's just an add-on.

It can reformat text you've selected, too, of course. Someone else briefly mentioned that it makes picking text colors super-easy, if that's something you need.

I think it's really neat, and both users and developers will figure out how to use it best.

To be honest it removes functionality: I use the F Keys. However my point here
Is another one: it is not ergonomic and surely not faster than a standard keyboard.

 

[BarracksSi]

To be honest it removes functionality: I use the F Keys. However my point here
Is another one: it is not ergonomic and surely not faster than a standard keyboard.

The F keys -- specifically, their functions -- are still there.

 

[borgusio]

The F keys -- specifically, their functions -- are still there.

No, they are not. The only thing you can do is to press Fn to let the function keys appear on the touchbar, which reinforces my argument of cumbersome usage. Did you actually try one live?

 

[eulslix]

You can set them up to be shown at any time. Otherwise they're working exactly as they were working before (fn). I seriously don't know what's your problem.

 

[BarracksSi]

No, they are not. The only thing you can do is to press Fn to let the function keys appear on the touchbar, which reinforces my argument of cumbersome usage. Did you actually try one live?

Yes.

If you want the TB to display F keys all the time, you can set it to do so (in System Preferences, I think; it's like how you can set a non-touchbar Mac's F keys to always behave like F keys).

 

[borgusio]

Guys, my critic is about the cumbersome usage of the Touchbar. You are bringing arguments in favor of it, fair enough. However, please consider that the past two arguments in favor or the TB are "the touch bar can be used as additional screen to get visual feedback when you change the text to bold" and "you can set the Fn key to be there all the time". Do you realize that both are not possible at the same time?

Basically my advice is: "try it yourself BEFORE you buy", that's it.

It is great for you that you like it. As I said, I will give it a second chance.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

I went an Apple Store this morning and saw the MBProTB for the first time. I love it! I'm ready to make the purchase anytime now, but I'm waiting a week or two. Can't explain why I'm waiting? I noticed when I was playing around with the TB, my finger kept touching the screen. Its like a natural impulse when I'm so use to doing this with my iPhone. Also, I'm not finding the typing comfortable; I'm hoping it's a matter of getting used to this butterfly keyboard, eventually. I'm getting it in Space Gray; the one for $1799. A side note, I was told the AirPods are in-store tomorrow 12/19, so I may pick one of those up as well.

I also took some photos and a size comparison with the MBAir since I am comparing the MBPtb to my current MBAir.

There were 2 more images, but it won't let me upload. File to large. This other photo was a size comparison to the MBAir, as I wanted to compare it to what I'm using now - MBAir. There's a huge difference in size. I can't believe how much smaller and thinner the MBPtb is to the MBAir.

 

[vatter69]

Was able to test the Touchbar on a 15" today in a Retail store and im not impressed. I wasn't sure if i could get used to it but boy is this thing crappy imo.

It's not bright enough
No haptic feedback whatsoever (do i press f1 or f2 now or whatever key? i have to look down)
It's not really sharp
Applications like Safari make no real use of it (you can't recognize the thumbnails of the opened tabs)
It doesn't feel as gorgeous as the trackpad (maybe not made out of glass?)

Overall - it's actually feels so bad and unusable for someone typing with 10 fingers and using the F and ESC key on a regular basis that the 2016 models are completely out of the question now.

Really a sad day, i was hoping i could actually arrange myself with all the downsides of the new hardware.

Can only hope that Touchbar Gen 2 will fix most of the above or that Apple will just offer the standard laptops with or without touchbar and don't offer this castrated non-touch versions as they do now.

 

[konstantin]

Has anyone else had the problem that some buttons of the Touch Bar won't appear? When the Touch Bar was inactive and lights up again, only some buttons appear. However, if I press the area where the buttons usually are, they start to reappear.

Any solution for this?