Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[MartyCan]

That was design feedback regarding the TB.
I did 'test drive' the machine and your question seems to imply that I may have not chosen this machine if I knew of these issues beforehand (some of which only emerge through long-term use). There are also other factors that go into (my) purchase decisions. And a purchase decision should not be considered the validation of design. I love the form factor and screen for example and need it maxed out (CPU). But purchase decisions shouldn't render design flaws mute

Oh sure. I almost never used F keys in any of my workflow with a few very minor exceptions. But now with the context sensitive TB there are shortcuts I am discovering over time and use.

By the way, do you mean mute as in silent or do you mean "moot" as in insignificant and unimportant. I realize this could be a language thing if you are in Cambridge UK versus Cambridge, ON, Canada.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Is it just me or can the touchbar experience be duplicate on an ipad?

 

[RichardF]

Apparently the OP and many on here do not own a laptop with a Touch Bar.

I do and I love it.

 

[RandomAppleUsers]

Oh sure. I almost never used F keys in any of my workflow with a few very minor exceptions. But now with the context sensitive TB there are shortcuts I am discovering over time and use.

I never use Fn keys. But I very often adjust the volume (1 up/down), mute the volume and skip songs multiple times an hour, and adjust the brightness multiple times a day (1-3 up/down). This is simply part of my workflow (e.g. while writing and coding).

Like many others, I internalised these movements so that I don't have to 'think' about performing the input. Like when I tie my shoes. I 'just know' how to tie my shoes. Practices like these are performed through muscle memory (they become so natural that we even forget how we do them).

The TB is forcing me to appoint my attention towards completing these inputs. My mind becomes occupied and called away from my work. It also increases the error rates and task completion times significantly.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do own and use a MBP '13 with TB (fully maxed) as my only computer.
This is me speaking about my personal experiences (and using some light-weight concepts from UX design).

PS: You are right, I meant to write 'moot'!

 

[RandomAppleUsers]

To take a step back, I have argued that input speed and accuracy significantly decrease and cognitive load increases with the TB.

A whole other question is the significance of these values to certain user groups. A high-level distinction may be made between users who use 'touch typing' (i.e. typing without using the sense of sight to find the keys and type with 10 fingers) and the novice-style "hunt and peck" (i.e. typing by finding keys by sight).

Touch typists may value input speed, input accuracy and cognitive load significantly higher then 'hunt and peck' typists (that is why they may have learned touch typing after all). They don't look away from the source (screen) and don't have to use hand-eye coordination to perform inputs - until now with the TB. That can be perceived as quite a disruption to the input style. (That is how I perceive it)

This sums up my reservations:
For a touch typist not unusual, I have a word/minute average of around 90, or 500 characters per minute = 8.3 inputs per second. Performing a single input using the Touchbar costs me 2.5 seconds (lowering the volume). That is an increase of input completion time by 2075%.
(For reference, I got a mechanical 'Das Keyboard' in the hope to increase my input efficiency by 10%)

Touch typists also face significantly higher qualitative costs such as increased cognitive load/loss of attention. And after TB inputs, you have to reset the hand and fingers again. For 'hunt and peck' typists, these costs may not significantly differ from their regular input and and they are also trained and used to rely on hand-eye coordination in their input. And thus perceive the TB ergonomically as not problematic.

What do you guys think, what typing style do you have and what do you think about inputs on the touchbar? I set up a public survey (take the survey and you will see the results):
2-question Touch Bar survey: Correlation of typing style and perceived ease of input.


Cheers

 

[Liat]

I guess you should have taken a test drive first before you bought it?

I guess you should try to understand the purpose of this forum.

Since I’m having a good day, I’m giving you hints.

The forum is not about giving personal lifestyle advices. It’s also not about the members personalities.

You might find the answer in the title.

And it does help to know whether he bought it or not as testing products for real work in an Apple store is close to impossible.
[doublepost=1484141971][/doublepost]

Apparently the OP and many on here do not own a laptop with a Touch Bar.

I do and I love it.

That’s awesome.

Let me not tell you how many computers I own.

The point isn’t that the Touch Bar is useless. I believe it can be useful for certain things. I believe it can be fun. But there are certain workflows for which the Touch Bar isn’t only not needed but distracting. And they are the workflows I’d buy a laptop for.

I don’t have the 2016 Macbook Pro because of the Touch Bar. It wouldn’t disturb me if it was an option. I came to read and comment this thread to figure out the percentage ot the people who don’t like it to get an idea whether Apple will remove it or I should try out some Windows laptops right now.

If you love it I’m happy for that. I don’t want it to cease to exist. I just want a computer without it.

 

[RichardF]

I guess you should try to understand the purpose of this forum.

Since I’m having a good day, I’m giving you hints.

The forum is not about giving personal lifestyle advices. It’s also not about the members personalities.

You might find the answer in the title.

And it does help to know whether he bought it or not as testing products for real work in an Apple store is close to impossible.
[doublepost=1484141971][/doublepost]

That’s awesome.

Let me not tell you how many computers I own.

The point isn’t that the Touch Bar is useless. I believe it can be useful for certain things. I believe it can be fun. But there are certain workflows for which the Touch Bar isn’t only not needed but distracting. And they are the workflows I’d buy a laptop for.

I don’t have the 2016 Macbook Pro because of the Touch Bar. It wouldn’t disturb me if it was an option. I came to read and comment this thread to figure out the percentage ot the people who don’t like it to get an idea whether Apple will remove it or I should try out some Windows laptops right now.

If you love it I’m happy for that. I don’t want it to cease to exist. I just want a computer without it.

You can drop the sarcasm. It reflects badly on you at best and it's reprehensible per forum etiquette/ rules.

Since you are addressing me, I'll reply.

Having the choice is always a good thing (buying different brands/ laptops, turning features on/ off etc.) but you are ignoring the fact that Apple want to advance things and help shape trends. Naturally they must be decisive.

I also noticed that the people complaining about the Touch Bar in this thread,

1) do not have a computer with one and do not speak from first hand prolonged use and experience.
This matters because their "perception" is just noise.
Sure these forums exist for the purpose of discussion but perception is often superseded by actual experience.
How many times did you surprise yourself by actually liking something or someone you thought you didn't care for?
Apple sells an experience and many won't get it until they try.
This month, a person I have known for 15 years always resisted the iPhone. He finally got an iPhone and he absolutely loves it. Anecdotal? Well, of course. But you get the point.


2) the ones who used a computer with it and disliked it made all sorts of excuses to obfuscate that in reality they are simply resisting change.


So I would like to ask, why wouldn't anyone want to replace a row of keys set in its functionality when you could have a touch area that can add value by changing its contents on the fly?
Does it require you look down? Sometimes. But so what? What if it's an action tied to a menu item that would have required hovering over a menu, getting into another nested menu, clicking something and then confirming? You'd want that shortcut whit looking down and perhaps also blinking to relieve stress on your eyes from staring at the screen, right?

The added flexibility and benefits largely outweigh the short term pain it represents changing habits and getting used to it.

Maturing also means that Apple and developers will find the right balance for it.
As usual the best ones will grab it and run with it and the mediocre ones will fall behind.
It just came out. Give it time.

For me it does what it is supposed and it is a marvel of technology. Others will prob. copy it, including manufacturers using Windows. I would not personally switch to a Windows machine just because of it.





And I love Touch ID too on the MBP by the way!
It's incredible how happy I am with the new thinner/ lighter design, the Space Gray color, the screen, the four T3 USB-C ports (did you see the whining about USB-C ports?) and the added Touch Bar and Touch ID features.
I can't wait for the iPhone to ship with a USB-C port. 2017 should be a great year for Apple.

 

[Liat]

You can drop the sarcasm. It reflects badly on you at best and it's reprehensible per forum etiquette/ rules.

I guess you should try to understand the purpose of this forum.

The forum is not about giving personal lifestyle advices. It’s also not about the members personalities.

Having the choice is always a good thing (buying different brands/ laptops, turning features on/ off etc.) but you are ignoring the fact that Apple want to advance things and help shape trends.

I also noticed that the people complaining about the Touch Bar in this thread,

1) do not have a computer with one and do not speak from first hand prolonged use and experience.

I think I understand what you say. I even agree with some of your points.

I’m afraid, however, you don’t understand what I say.

For certain people, including me, it does not matter what the Touch Bar offers.

There is nothing new in it in a simple regard. It emits light. That’s it.

End of story.

Every single led in my home is hidden from my eyes, except the Macbook Pro charger, which, by the way, annoys me, so, when I’m working or watching a movie, I put a piece of cloth on it. But at least it’s a static light, as I already wrote.

I know there are many people (the majority) who don’t care about such things. They care about things I don’t care about. I don’t expect people to be the same.

I’m not the only person on this planet who won’t buy the Macbook Pro only because of this. For example, it wasn’t me who created this thead.

I also did not ask various developers to put distraction free text editors into the App store. I wonder why they exist.

I also did not ask Steve Jobs to make computers which (unlike more or less any other computer) have no leds on them.

My iMac has no led on it. My Macbook Pro has no led on it. Do you think the reason is that the engineers forgot to put on them?

Right now there are three perfectly working computers around me in 10 feets. One of them is a fully upgraded 27 inch retina iMac. I’m writing this post on a retina Macbook Pro. However, the iMac isn’t too mobile, and the MBP is a few years old and has 2 core CPU. I could use a fast and new laptop. Every second I spend on waiting for a computer costs me money.

But I can’t get the new computer, because someone at Apple had no idea what Apple computers were about, *for certain people*.

I do believe the Touch Bar is fun for people who aren’t distracted by it. On the other hand, nothing could be there that emits light and I could stand it.

I mean: nothing.

And if you name me a single Apple computer from the recent years (that is front of you when you use it and) that has a single led on it, I’ll admit I’m an alien with unsatisfiable needs.

Otherwise, I think the Apple CEO has no idea about what he is "leading".

 

[poorcody]

Well I just want to add my experience with the Touchbar... at first I thought it was as much a novelty as it was useful...

However, then I got the utility BetterTouchTool, which let me completely customize it... I have created a myriad of buttons that have powerful macros behind them, customized for all my applications. I now find it incredibly useful.

Examples: Xcode, I have various code-stubs that I can insert with a couple of taps. I can perform multi-step functions with a tap on an icon of my choosing. Same in Visual Studio under Parallels. In Notes, I use many different icons and templates for projecting planning, and they are all now right in my Touchbar without having to (try) to remember various shortcut keys. In Safari, I have macros that automatically perform functions like copying a reader view of the page and sending it to email with a particular format I use. Or automatically look up Google definition of words in a side-tab to look at later as I continue reading. I have macros to arrange various windows when coding...

The possibilities are endless... before one could do similar things with shortcut keys, macros, and such, but having them visually right in front of you makes the difference between using them and not in my experience.

 

[BarracksSi]

I guess you should try to understand the purpose of this forum.

The forum is not about giving personal lifestyle advices. It’s also not about the members personalities.



I think I understand what you say. I even agree with some of your points.

I’m afraid, however, you don’t understand what I say.

For certain people, including me, it does not matter what the Touch Bar offers.

There is nothing new in it in a simple regard. It emits light. That’s it.

End of story.

Every single led in my home is hidden from my eyes, except the Macbook Pro charger, which, by the way, annoys me, so, when I’m working or watching a movie, I put a piece of cloth on it. But at least it’s a static light, as I already wrote.

I know there are many people (the majority) who don’t care about such things. They care about things I don’t care about. I don’t expect people to be the same.

I’m not the only person on this planet who won’t buy the Macbook Pro only because of this. For example, it wasn’t me who created this thead.

I also did not ask various developers to put distraction free text editors into the App store. I wonder why they exist.

I also did not ask Steve Jobs to make computers which (unlike more or less any other computer) have no leds on them.

My iMac has no led on it. My Macbook Pro has no led on it. Do you think the reason is that the engineers forgot to put on them?

Right now there are three perfectly working computers around me in 10 feets. One of them is a fully upgraded 27 inch retina iMac. I’m writing this post on a retina Macbook Pro. However, the iMac isn’t too mobile, and the MBP is a few years old and has 2 core CPU. I could use a fast and new laptop. Every second I spend on waiting for a computer costs me money.

But I can’t get the new computer, because someone at Apple had no idea what Apple computers were about, *for certain people*.

I do believe the Touch Bar is fun for people who aren’t distracted by it. On the other hand, nothing could be there that emits light and I could stand it.

I mean: nothing.

And if you name me a single Apple computer from the recent years (that is front of you when you use it and) that has a single led on it, I’ll admit I’m an alien with unsatisfiable needs.

Otherwise, I think the Apple CEO has no idea about what he is "leading".

Of all the complaining I've seen on MR, you are the first one who hates backlit keyboards, even claiming that they are totally unusable.

And, man, you sure write a lot.

 

[Liat]

Of all the complaining I've seen on MR, you are the first one who hates backlit keyboards, even claiming that they are totally unusable.

I believe I was the only one who hates the blacklit. But there were people who explained that every eye movement has its cost. Especially when you sit 10+ hours front of the computer.

When you switch between applications, the Touch Bar changes. Even if it wouldn’t, it fades out after a while. Then it fades back. For the brain it’s like movement. It’s a hundred times worse than the blacklit. I would notice the change every single time. My eyes wouldn’t have enough time to stress on it because my brain would give up focusing in 30 minutes.

I can imagine even I could like it for Photoshop, for example. But as you already noticed, most of the time I’m writing.

 

[sidewinder]

Liat,

You have to admit, you are a very usual person with very unusual requirements. Anyone that needs to hide every LED in their home is not anywhere close to typical. You must realize that Apple is not designing their computers for outliers like you. No company is. You should realize this and accept it as nominal. You should also realize your complaints, while valid to you, seem strange to most people. It doesn't do you any good to complain here, and that is what you are doing, so you might want to complain to an entity that actually has a chance of doing something about it.

 

[RichardF]

Liat,

[...]It doesn't do you any good to complain here, and that is what you are doing, so you might want to complain to an entity that actually has a chance of doing something about it.

Agreed.

Liat, not that you can't express your views. It's just that people will find them unnecessarily negative.

Diversity is good though and having the choice also.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

I guess you should try to understand the purpose of this forum.

The forum is not about giving personal lifestyle advices. It’s also not about the members personalities.

I will point out the obvious, that sarcastic take distracts the parties you are discussing things with from the validly (if applicable) of your arguments. It plays against you. Why not remove the drag? Which you have eventually in your second post. Thank you.

I think I understand what you say. I even agree with some of your points.

I’m afraid, however, you don’t understand what I say.

For certain people, including me, it does not matter what the Touch Bar offers.

There is nothing new in it in a simple regard. It emits light. That’s it.

End of story.

Every single led in my home is hidden from my eyes, except the Macbook Pro charger, which, by the way, annoys me, so, when I’m working or watching a movie, I put a piece of cloth on it. But at least it’s a static light, as I already wrote.

I know there are many people (the majority) who don’t care about such things. They care about things I don’t care about. I don’t expect people to be the same.

I’m not the only person on this planet who won’t buy the Macbook Pro only because of this. For example, it wasn’t me who created this thead.

I also did not ask various developers to put distraction free text editors into the App store. I wonder why they exist.

I also did not ask Steve Jobs to make computers which (unlike more or less any other computer) have no leds on them.

My iMac has no led on it. My Macbook Pro has no led on it. Do you think the reason is that the engineers forgot to put on them?

Right now there are three perfectly working computers around me in 10 feets. One of them is a fully upgraded 27 inch retina iMac. I’m writing this post on a retina Macbook Pro. However, the iMac isn’t too mobile, and the MBP is a few years old and has 2 core CPU. I could use a fast and new laptop. Every second I spend on waiting for a computer costs me money.

But I can’t get the new computer, because someone at Apple had no idea what Apple computers were about, *for certain people*.

I do believe the Touch Bar is fun for people who aren’t distracted by it. On the other hand, nothing could be there that emits light and I could stand it.

I mean: nothing.

And if you name me a single Apple computer from the recent years (that is front of you when you use it and) that has a single led on it, I’ll admit I’m an alien with unsatisfiable needs.

Otherwise, I think the Apple CEO has no idea about what he is "leading".

That's because you didn't mention not wanting anything being on in the post addressing me.
I have seen you write here and there throughout the thread but I admit I skipped your posts.

I understand wanting to disable/ turn off the Touch Bar. It's a little drastic but macOS should offer that option.

The Touch Bar is a great idea and it is powerful. @poorcody posted right after our posts and gave a welcome concrete set of examples. I am not on his level but imagine what real "power users" can do with this!

This is Apple starting a slow and progressive move towards touch keyboards like they did for the iPhone. They have to get rid of the mechanical complexity, cost and space the current keyboards take up.


I enjoy these forums. Thank you all.

Of all the complaining I've seen on MR, you are the first one who hates backlit keyboards, even claiming that they are totally unusable.

And, man, you sure write a lot.

Backlit keyboards are awesome. I remember being blown away when I first an Apple laptop with one.

I easily have had at least a dozen laptops in the last 17 years or so.
I absolutely love my Touch Bar MBP 13", the best I have had from Windows, Linux-dedicated, macOS worlds combined (and this is despite the many bugs and annoyances in macOS 10.12).

 

[Liat]

sidewinder, you have valid points. I could tell just by looking at the faces I was the first person in the local Apple store who asked about turning off the Touch Bar.

On the other hand, I was there on the first week. And this thread already had 27 pages when I joined. The OP explained similar things I did.

Apple was often alone. If you not count the touch screens, it’s extremely hard to find a laptop with a glossy screen. The same is true about desktop displays. I don’t know whether a non-Apple laptop exists without leds. Apple was the only company who thought not every laptop and mobile phone owners are color blind. My only silent laptop is the MBP. I could continue.

There are many people who bought Apple but not for the reasons above. Yet those bought for the reasons above, couldn’t buy anything else.

They might be the minority of the customers. So, just because of that, do you expect them to be happy now?

The way I express myself is "loud", that’s why I might seem to be alone. If you read through the forum, you will find many posts from others telling the same (or similar).

No sane company wants to lose even 1-5% of its customers, if there is a way to keep them, without losing the rest, and without spending too much money or effort on it. I don’t get how it would cost much for Apple to make the Touch Bar an option. One of the new MBP doesn’t have it so it’s not impossible to produce the computer without it.

By the way, if I’m the only one on the world concerned about the blacklit, why is it possible to turn it off?

Any why is that the most expensive Asus routers finally have a button that really shuts down every, I mean, every light on the router? If they created the product only for me, they should have written my name on it. I think I will compain why they didn’t.

I totally don’t get why it is a problem for anyone when people post in a thread they don’t like the Touch Bar. I can’t remember a single time in my life when people expressed their concerns about a feature, and I went there to tell them to stop.

I didn’t do this even when they complained about my own product. Fun fact: I listened.

Considering my style it might be a surprise, but I don’t think everyone is retarded, so I don’t think people complain about a product for no reason. Especially if it’s something they would want to buy.

Bye

 

[sidewinder]

Liat,

I am not saying you should not post your views. I am saying you should not be surprised that they are not shared by very many others here. You must realize that you are not anywhere close to being typical and you should not get indignant when others don't see things the way you do. Because people seeing things differently than you is nominal and you should recognize that and not push people on it.

I am sure, someday soon, someone will come up with a utility that will let you adjust the brightness of the Touch Bar....even allowing you to take the brightness down to zero.

 

[borgusio]

In Defense of Liat, a small part of the population has a much wider field of view than the rest. You cannot even apply to become jet fighter pilot if you do not belong to this group. I am one of those lucky ones and I share Liat issue with the touchbar. As I already wrote ist for my way of working too distracting unfortunately.

I am not saying that Apple should design for us. In my opinion the TB could be an optional feature instead of a mandatory one.

 

[Liat]

I get it. I also told you (and others) you had valid points.

I know how forums work (that’s why I try to avoid them). I’m not annoyed by the answers. I’m disappointed. I waited for this computer for long.

At the end it may be good. Not only it made me love my old MBP even more, it made me realize a Macbook might be a better purchase. The 13 inch MBP is already too heavy to carry around with comfort. The 15 inch I wanted to buy wouldn’t even fit into my briefcase, I guess.

I will wait for the 2017 Macbook. I will buy the one with the best CPU. I will be happy with it.

Unless it will have a Touch Bar. In that case I will jump off the bridge.

(But only a tiny one. I don’t want to get hurt.)

 

[sidewinder]

I am part of that "group". The Touch Bar does not cause me any issues.

 

[borgusio]

I am part of that "group". The Touch Bar does not cause me any issues.

Mhmm... What do you mean, you just ignore the flickering in front of the monitor? In store I found it less annoying on the 15" than on the 13". Are you on a 15"?

 

[sidewinder]

Did you miss seeing my signature? Lol....

Yes, I have a 15". Regardless, I see the Touch Bar, know what it is, and easily ignore it. I guess I was lucky enough to learn how to ignore superfluous visual data while paying attention to essential visual information. This helps in when I am racing as well.

 

[Liat]

Mhmm... What do you mean, you just ignore the flickering in front of the monitor? In store I found it less annoying on the 15" than on the 13". Are you on a 15"?

I thought about putting black ducktape on it but the glue would slowly come out and get on everything around the tape. That’s why I use clothes or paper instead of duck tape to hide the lights around me.

Also, it would be extremely ugly.

I’m afraid Apple won’t make it toggleable, otherwise those who would turn it off would also ask why they have to pay for something they turn off, or why they have to pay extra to have plain darkness instead of the F keys.

In case I could code for macOS I would start writing the app right now. It would be a paid one.

Or maybe I wouldn’t. For the reasons above, I doubt Apple will allow it.

They have only two options. Totally force it to be there and be active, no matter what you do, or make it a purchase/customize option. The rest of the options are not defendable (financially, in the view of the customer).

It’s not an accident you can’t adjust the brighness at all, while you can completely turn off the rest (screen, blacklit).

Allowing you to turn it off would state they are aware it annoys certain people yet you are forced to buy it and to not have F keys.
[doublepost=1484167679][/doublepost]

Did you miss seeing my signature? Lol....

Yes, I have a 15". Regardless, I see the Touch Bar, know what it is, and easily ignore it. I guess I was lucky enough to learn how to ignore superfluous visual data while paying attention to essential visual information. This helps in when I am racing as well.

I suggest you to not tell this to people who take Ritalin, otherwise the pharmacy companies will assassinate you for making a billion dollar business cease to exist.

Oh, wait. Maybe they have been told this a thousand times already and somehow it’s not helping?

Thanks, God, you are safe!

 

[sidewinder]

This is useful if the constant changing of Touch Bar content is bothersome:

I think the easiest thing you could do is go to System Preferences -> Keyboard, then set "Touch bar shows" to "Expanded control strip".

That way, the touch bar won't change all them time when switching between applications. It will only switch when pressing Fn.

 

[Liat]

This is useful if the constant changing of Touch Bar content is bothersome:

This is a good idea and it might help some. Unfortunately, it still fades out when you start thinking on something, and it comes back when you start typing again. As far as I remember. I tried this in the store, but I couldn’t really focus because I was annoyed by the Touch Bar.

 

[sidewinder]

Seriously? Fading in and out is now a problem? Okay, customize the control strip so there is nothing in it. Then, only the "esc" control will show up. Yes, it will be there and fade in and out too. But at least there will be only one small control visible.

 

[Liat]

It doesn’t matter how big it is.

Let’s suppose I’m not a troll, and I didn’t come here to lie. (Otherwise, the whole conversation had no meaning at all.)

Can you imagine that you might have an issue I don’t have? A single one. It doesn’t have to be related to computers. It can be about anything.

Would it change anything if I would tell you I totally don’t get it, or that you shouldn’t have it, or most people don’t have it, so don’t expect any solution? Would it change anything if I would keep repeating "are you serious?"

After you answered this question in general, let’s imagine there was a dedicated forum, which would be related to the area of your issue, and there would be a thread 100% about your thing, where even the OP would describe your thing. You would go there to talk about it. And me and others would go there, and me (and others) would repeat I can’t imagine it, believe it, why don’t you ignore it?

I’m not here for the MBP anymore, I decided to get the Macbook 2017 or a Windows machine. I’m still here because I find it interesting that otherwise likely intelligent people, who likely have some goodwill, simply can’t understand that if everyone on the planet would have exactly the same problems, we didn’t need to describe any of them, not even once.

I mean, even if someone has absolutely zero empathy, a little bit of logic would also help to figure out that people discuss things because they are not totally the same.

The last question is whether you think I expect everyone to be disturbed by the Touch Bar. I mean, if every person, or just the majority of the people would simply not buy the MacBook Pro because of the Touch Bar, why on earth would Apple put it there?

If Apple put it there, and I’m not totally crazy, I must be aware that there are many people who are not disturbed by it.

So we get to the point when someone defines how much percenge of the humanity must be concerned about something to grant me the rights to talk about it?

Do I have to tell really disgusting parallel examples about things we shouldn’t care about since the majority of the population is not affected?

No, I won’t.

It doesn’t matter people have computers if they still want to live in the caves where such rules existed