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I've set my Macs to have a more natural, paper-like color profile.

About half year ago I switched from black to light-yellow on the terminal and light-orange in the code editor. I never looked back. I have no problem with the yellow itself, it’s just terrible as a tint on something that’s grey.
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And there are a lot of people who love the Surface. Imagine that!

Well, I like vegetarians because there is more meat left for me.

I personally don't care for Windows or I'd look at a Dell XPS 13" these days.

If I would go that road, I would need to keep the Windows for Photoshop, Lightroom and Ableton. For everything else, I would use a Virtual machine + FreeBSD. But this wouldn’t protect me from spyware. It’s way too easy to install them on a 100% legit Windows. I recently ran into a game on Steam that installs spyware on Windows. See the comments: http://store.steampowered.com/app/444090/

Gosh, it’s 2017. And I play another game of the same developer.

Okay, one could screw up a macOS too by installing random software, but if I install only from App Store and Macports, I feel safe. This spyware anti-cheat doesn’t even have a working version for macOS. I wonder why.

It could be a false dilemma but it sounds to me like a great team should storm the market to address the concurrent dichotomy between Apple & Google and Apple & Microsoft.
Until then I am so happy Apple exist.

Same here. I wonder why the competitors copied so many things from Apple, except those things that make me buy Apple.
 
I really wish they'd offer a non Touch Bar MBP that still has Touch ID - I'd literally pay the same amount (I know it has to has the little iOS secure enclave etc). I just simply don't want the Touch Bar itself at all.

Hell - I'd go "no touch ID" if they'd just offer all the specs as "with or without" Touch Bar.

It's just really not a thing everyone wants, myself included. To some of us it's a distracting step backwards that just gets in the way.

95% of our office says the same; Gimme back my mechanical function keys ...
Midnight commander works are now disaster ...
 
95% of our office says the same; Gimme back my mechanical function keys ...
Midnight commander works are now disaster ...

There is nothing new in the touch bar concept, except the burn out of the OLEd display. 15 years ago there were already tons of keyboards with 10-30 additional buttons on them. "Play", "Stop", "Back", "Open Browser", "Make a toast", "Order a hooker", "The boss is coming".

There have been keyboards even with displays on them for ages

Has no one noticed at Apple while some people buy these, others don’t? And maybe the latter group is not totally different from their customers? And maybe it’s not the minority? And maybe not all of them goes for the cheap since a Das Keyboard, for example, costs more than most of the fancy ones?

I’m not working for that company, so here are a few others, and here are too (Adesso, etc...)

Has no one noticed that many of the $130-250 gamer keyboards (Razer, etc...) has no additional buttons on them? Maybe it’s not they or their customers couldn’t afford them? And maybe it’s not because gamers couldn’t handle them?

Didn’t they notice it’s usually the non gamer $40-$80 keyboards that companies try to sell with 150+ "keys" on them? Is that exactly the market of the Macbook Pro?

If someone from Apple is reading this, please open this page, and notice that the $139 and $159 Steelseries have many additional buttons on them, and the $239 from the same company hasn’t. Not a single one. Try to figure out why. If you get stuck, check out the ratings. It will not tell you the reason but you’ll know at least the higher price was not a typo. Not a typo done on a cheap keyboard.

Touch Bar is not a cheap keyboard though. It’s a keyboard with the looks and the functionality of the cheap keyboards with the price of the usable ones. And it’s put it on the company’s premium computer without any option.

If its concept already cost a lot for Apple, maybe it could be put on the entry level MBP (the only one that hasn’t got it), and the next one, and removed from the rest, and everyone will be happy?
 
Yeah yeah.

Anybody know a good way to wreck my old MBP so I can easily justify to my wife that I suddenly need the new one? :p Maybe the ol' Russian roulette version of rm -rf?
Yes. I just told my wife that I needed to run modern virtualization software... Actually, this was true moving from a 2008... While I was at it, created a better workstation environment at home.
 
There is nothing new in the touch bar concept, except the burn out of the OLEd display. 15 years ago there were already tons of keyboards with 10-30 additional buttons on them. "Play", "Stop", "Back", "Open Browser", "Make a toast", "Order a hooker", "The boss is coming".

There have been keyboards even with displays on them for ages

Has no one noticed at Apple while some people buy these, others don’t? And maybe the latter group is not totally different from their customers? And maybe it’s not the minority? And maybe not all of them goes for the cheap since a Das Keyboard, for example, costs more than most of the fancy ones?

I’m not working for that company, so here are a few others, and here are too (Adesso, etc...)

Has no one noticed that many of the $130-250 gamer keyboards (Razer, etc...) has no additional buttons on them? Maybe it’s not they or their customers couldn’t afford them? And maybe it’s not because gamers couldn’t handle them?

Didn’t they notice it’s usually the non gamer $40-$80 keyboards that companies try to sell with 150+ "keys" on them? Is that exactly the market of the Macbook Pro?

If someone from Apple is reading this, please open this page, and notice that the $139 and $159 Steelseries have many additional buttons on them, and the $239 from the same company hasn’t. Not a single one. Try to figure out why. If you get stuck, check out the ratings. It will not tell you the reason but you’ll know at least the higher price was not a typo. Not a typo done on a cheap keyboard.

Touch Bar is not a cheap keyboard though. It’s a keyboard with the looks and the functionality of the cheap keyboards with the price of the usable ones. And it’s put it on the company’s premium computer without any option.

If its concept already cost a lot for Apple, maybe it could be put on the entry level MBP (the only one that hasn’t got it), and the next one, and removed from the rest, and everyone will be happy?
Mechanical keyboards are great, but you're not going to find one on a mainstream laptop. I think there's one $6000 20" gaming laptop that has an actual mechanical keyboard. And while some people don't like the short keystroke on the new Apple keyboards, personally I find it remarkably comfortable to use. Took about a week to get used to it and now I prefer it.

But I'm not sure I see the point to comparing mechanical keyboards to a laptop keyboard with the touch bar on it.

And I think the touch bar is a reasonable advancement, particularly given Apple's aversion to a touch screen laptop (which personally I agree with). An app like Pages and Keynote show good use of the touch bar - I can change pre-defined text styles (body, heading, caption, etc.) without lifting my hands from the keyboard, intent or activate lists, quickly change colors, line thickness, etc. basically as part of my typing and not separate by lifting my hands and moving to the trackpad. And since it's software definable, it can be refined and customized.

It is revolutionary? Not really. But it's a strong evolution of the keyboard. Will generation 2 or 3 be better? Of course. Perhaps they'll had both force touch and haptics to better simulate a tactile feedback to reduce accidental presses. But Apple's first Mac was not the 15" quad core MacBook Pro. These things evolve over time.
 
Ah, I meant a little script command that picks a random integer between 1 and 6, then if it's a 1 (I think), it runs the rm -rf command to wipe out the entire HD. In other words, you type it in, hit Enter, and you've got a 1-in-6 chance of losing everything.

Google --> Lose/Lose and have your wife watch you play it or have her play it
 
Mechanical keyboards are great, but you're not going to find one on a mainstream laptop. I think there's one $6000 20" gaming laptop that has an actual mechanical keyboard. And while some people don't like the short keystroke on the new Apple keyboards, personally I find it remarkably comfortable to use. Took about a week to get used to it and now I prefer it.

But I'm not sure I see the point to comparing mechanical keyboards to a laptop keyboard with the touch bar on it.

Hello xraydoc,

I don’t expect mechanical keyboards on laptops.

While I would be happy to have the $6000 laptop for gaming, they are noisy for work. Unfortunately, that’s true for most of the non-gaming laptops too, they are just less vacuum-cleanerish than the gamer counterparts. That’s one of the reasons why I’m "stuck" with Apple.

I love the keyboard on the 2012 MBP. The Apple Magic Keyboard is okay.

I wanted to show "professional" keyboards tend to have few to zero additional buttons and keys. The cheap keyboards have. Yes, there are exceptions, it’s just a trend.

The mechanical built often comes with pro standalone keyboards. It’s not what I wanted to point out.

There is a phenomenon I call Christmas tree effect. The name comes from the PC laptops. The manufacturer says: "Okay, it’s ugly, it’s huge, it’s heavy. What should we do? Let’s put leds on it! The more the better!"

You’ll see the same trend on audio hardware.

There is a market for that.

I don’t know how it is in the U.S., but in Europe, when you buy banana, every single piece has a sticker on it.

Which means, if the bunch (cluster) of the banana you buy is really huge, you might get almost the same amount of stickers as you would get by purchasing a single PC laptop.

I tell you why. When there was no sticker there, people didn’t know it was Intel Inside. Every single customer thought there was a squirrel running in a small wheel inside the computer. Most of the time this wasn’t a problem. The Greenpeace was annoyed at every Christmas as people were calling them non-stop, asking them for help release the poor animals, but who cares.

Horrible things happened though when people tried to give water to the poor thirsty squirrels inside the machine before the Greenpeace stuff arrived.

That’s why it has to be put on almost every the PC laptops ever sold on Earth: "Intel Inside". It saves millions of lives each day.

I don’t know about the rest of the 6-8 stickers put on an average computer. All I know it takes a half day to remove them and to properly clean the laptop.

(Note: properly)

You can see the same phenomenon if you compare an iPad to another tablet. The latter will have more buttons. It will be slower, it will have worse display, and there will be more buttons.

Android, since version 1.0, is full of everything you won’t ever need. And they are everywhere just to make it sure there is not a single part of the whole interface that’s not chaotic.

I remember when Chrome was getting popular, Google thought the time of the Christmas tree macOS had been arrived so they put an icon to the status menu (top right) which even displayed alerts at times. There were many threads about how to remove it using the advanced config editor in Chrome, but the method changed from version to version. At the end, it was not possible to remove it. (I’m not kidding)

Google finally understood they were about 2-3 years too early. They finally didn’t force it to be there.

Still, my status menu on macOS is 70% wider than it used to be, and the only icon I "put" there is the Creative Cloud. I mean, I didn’t put it there but didn’t try to remove.

The CC icon almost never disturbs me (it almost never does anything) and it looks natural there. Still, the menu is definiately larger, and the color of the Siri icon doesn’t fit at all, it’s getting more chaotic somehow.

The Chrome icon was the summary of every kind of disaster a notification icon can cause, presented in a single element. I never though a single icon can show almost everything me and people who want to work hate about Android and Windows.

(I like Google. I do business with Google and I’m pleased with them in many regards. I’m only talking about the Christmas tree effect and the icon they finally removed, not the company itself. They make things are really cool.)

I don’t consider myself an Apple fan, haven’t read any book about Steve Jobs’ life, yet I know he was famous for *removing features* until the product had become perfect.

*Removing features to make it perfect.*

Led lights won’t make computers better, stickers won’t make laptops better, annoying icons in status menu won’t make software better, and additional keys and lights won’t make keyboards better.

With a few exceptations, they make them worse.

Every distraction costs time, effort, energy, and at the end, money. Such things are usually used to sell cheap or flawed products. Apple used to be on the opposite side.

By the way, I figured out I’m not an alien (in this regard). There are tickets in software trackers in which people telling they get crazy by (and they will stop using) software thanks to their focus stealing alert popups.

My impression is Apple is moving into the Chrismas tree direction. I’m confused because the Macbook Pro is still superior to the other laptops in most of the things that matter for me (and for many), but I’m not sure about my next desktop computer. Especially since macOS is showing the same signs.

I’m getting popups into my face telling me my AFP share disconnected when I’m trying to work. I can’t turn them off.

Well, I can. It will be drastic though.

I believe these all are the same thing.

A company can try to disturb me in my work, can try forcing me buy things that are invented for a different market, but sooner or later I will have enough.

If their products are still better than the competitors’, which is true in this case, I’ll complain for a while. But at the end I’ll get angry and I’ll switch.

It would be pathetic to provide link to show I’m not alone.

For me, the Surface is not an option. Getting a Macbook and high-end PC desktop with silent cooling for 2017 might be one.
 
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As of about a week ago, no they have not.

I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is deliberately holding back an update that uses the touch bar for the Office apps (Excel, Word, etc.). My conspiracy theory goes like this: Microsoft's primary purpose in life is to sell windows os machines. While this has been challenged in recent years with the rise of the smartphone and tablet, the OS remains its primary focus. For years they hobbled the Mac versions of the Office apps to drive power users of those apps back to Windows machines (or keep them from moving to Macs in the first place). I was one of those people. However, with more capable recent releases, they seem to have admitted that hobbling spreadsheets on Macs might eventually drive users to alternative Office apps (Apple's suite, OpenOffice, etc).

Now, with some success with the Surface machines, and the dubious functionality of the touch bar (thus far), Microsoft smells blood. The MS Office apps remain important to most users. MS can frustrate those that are using new touch bar Macs by delaying roll-out of the touch bar functionality. Or worse, fumbling the functionality when it is rolled out. That might, on the margin, tip those users back to windows based machines, and injure the Mac franchise.

There are a ton of assumptions in there, but that's the foundation of a good conspiracy theory, right?
 
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Also, don't know if anyone else is experiencing this, but every now and then, the control strip on my touchbar disappears (while the app controls in the touchbar remain)... If I touch the position where I know the buttons are, they re-appear, but to get the whole thing back, I need to touch the space where the "<" (expand control strip) is to expand and then re-minimize...

I have this same problem. It makes the TB quite a bit less useful. The frequency has been reduced by switching to "Touch Bar Shows: Expanded Control Strip" in System Preferences, but it still happens.
 
I'm starting to wonder if Microsoft is deliberately holding back an update that uses the touch bar for the Office apps (Excel, Word, etc.). My conspiracy theory goes like this: Microsoft's primary purpose in life is to sell windows os machines. While this has been challenged in recent years with the rise of the smartphone and tablet, the OS remains its primary focus. For years they hobbled the Mac versions of the Office apps to drive power users of those apps back to Windows machines (or keep them from moving to Macs in the first place). I was one of those people. However, with more capable recent releases, they seem to have admitted that hobbling spreadsheets on Macs might eventually drive users to alternative Office apps (Apple's suite, OpenOffice, etc).

Now, with some success with the Surface machines, and the dubious functionality of the touch bar (thus far), Microsoft smells blood. The MS Office apps remain important to most users. MS can frustrate those that are using new touch bar Macs by delaying roll-out of the touch bar functionality. Or worse, fumbling the functionality when it is rolled out. That might, on the margin, tip those users back to windows based machines, and injure the Mac franchise.

There are a ton of assumptions in there, but that's the foundation of a good conspiracy theory, right?

Funny, todays Insider-Fast Office update brought Touchbar support to Word, Excel and Powerpoint :) (but still nothing for Onenote or Outlook).
 
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Conspiracies are always entertaining if nothing else!

ice29's post debunks it obviously, but I think the new Microsoft are quite happy that their products are being used by lots of people on a range of Macs and iOS devices. It might well tempt some people to give MS hardware a try as well, but in the meantime its generating revenue and exposure for their products which they wouldn't have got otherwise.
 
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Conspiracies are always entertaining if nothing else!

ice29's post debunks it obviously, but I think the new Microsoft are quite happy that their products are being used by lots of people on a range of Macs and iOS devices. It might well tempt some people to give MS hardware a try as well, but in the meantime its generating revenue and exposure for their products which they wouldn't have got otherwise.


I was not even looking for Touch Bar news. This was on the first page on Google for "Macbook 2017"

MacBook Pro Touch Bar banned from multiple state bar exams

And:

"Removing the technology can make a Pro more difficult to use, forcing owners to click through menus to accomplish common tasks."
 
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I saw about the Touch Bar bans yesterday, but am not sure how that specifically gives you any advantage - if you're allowed to bring and use any personal computing device in to an exam scenario, its open to abuse surely?

All the CBT exams I've taken insist on you bringing nothing in to the room and you use their computers which are obviously locked-down too.

Obviously someone could write a programme to make use of the TB specifically to display information which would help you, but if you're allowed your own laptop, you could just have that in notes.

Somebody suggested it was to do with the predictive text suggestions, but I've no idea how that would really help either.
 
Obviously someone could write a programme to make use of the TB specifically to display information which would help you, but if you're allowed your own laptop, you could just have that in notes.

Somebody suggested it was to do with the predictive text suggestions, but I've no idea how that would really help either.

A few comments point out students who already are allowed to use a computer can cheat several ways with or without the Touch Bar.

I personally find exams pointless in general for other reasons.

The news reminded me to Microsoft’s lucky time. It also gave me hope that Apple will produce future MBPs and Macbooks without the Touch Bar at least as an option. Although it will be sad when stupid exams and who knows what will convince Apple to do so, instead of their own customers, I will be just a pragmatic and happy owner of a usable computer.

The best shot would be if transgender people would figure it out the Touch Bar is somehow offending.

They better hurry so I can get the Kaby Lake.
 
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Funny, todays Insider-Fast Office update brought Touchbar support to Word, Excel and Powerpoint :) (but still nothing for Onenote or Outlook).
Well it's pretty obvious that I uncovered their conspiracy. After being exposed, the only thing left for Microsoft to do was to roll out the update they'd been withholding! Haha, well, timing is everything.

Thanks for the update that they've released it in beta. I am going to download and check it out. It's about time!

Ok update:

Just downloaded the fast update and tried out in Excel. Very minimal implementation from what I can see so far: basic formatting (bold, underline, colors, gridlines, etc), format styles, chart tools and clock that allows you to open recent items. Oh, and thankfully they've included a copy button, because ctrl-c, the copy button in the ribbon and the one you can add to the quick access toolbar weren't enough. We needed that fourth option. Also, holding down the modifier keys (ctrl, option, etc) does not alter the touch bar buttons.

Man, I'm trying not to be pessimistic here -- and the final rollout (this is a beta) may have greater functionality -- but that's what MS has been working on for the past 3 months? That's the MS touch bar support Apple touted in the MacBook Pro launch in October? Some redundant formatting buttons? What about my F2 key? Or my F4 key (from the windows version, inexplicably disabled on the Mac)? If there's a fairly flexible way to customize it, that would certainly help. A lot. But don't see that option so far...

God, that's underwhelming.
 
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I really don't want to start a new thread for a single question I have, so I thought I'd post it here and have a go, see if you guys could help.

The Touch Bar on the login screen. Can it be customized? F. ex. now I have the play button on there, and I'd very much like to remove it, and a couple of others as well. Is it impossible, or am I just blind?
 
I saw about the Touch Bar bans yesterday, but am not sure how that specifically gives you any advantage - if you're allowed to bring and use any personal computing device in to an exam scenario, its open to abuse surely?. . .

Obviously someone could write a programme to make use of the TB specifically to display information which would help you, but if you're allowed your own laptop, you could just have that in notes.

It's the predictive text. Since the predictive text "reads" the context of what you are writing, it will propose answers based on what would fit with that context. So, if a student taking a test types, "Columbus sailed the ocean blue in...." and pauses, the predictive text can suggest "1492," since that is something that frequently appears in context online. If a student types "tetrachloroethylene is..." and the Touch Bar suggests "toxic" or "a name for PERC" or "colorless," the student can fish for more information with a reasonable chance of finding something useful.

I teach at a university, and some of my colleagues are already having problems with students trying this on essay examinations. It affects me less, since I give handwritten essay examinations.

Sure, typing similar phrases in "google search" would lead to the same abuse if students are using computers, but normally teachers will tell students, "You can only open Microsoft Word for the essay portion of the exam. Open web browsers will lead to an automatic failure." Compliance is easy to check if the computer lab is arranged where all monitors are visible to the teacher. Touchbar, however, is very small and hard to see, so it really is a different beast.
 
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Bought a 13" MBP w/ TouchBar before the holiday because i had to travel and was interested mostly in the new keyboard, mouse, and lightweight.

I was hopeful about the touch bar because for the most part Apple has been consistent when introducing new user input devices.

I have to agree with the first post in this thread. I am a power user. I don't look at the keyboard. The touchbar is not in my field of vision - so adaptive input elements (app/context specific) move around too much to be useful for me. It's even worse when my dominant hand is on the mouse and I have to travel to keys on the right of the keyboard because its a "mouse-selection" context. I have also tried the "Expanded Control Strip" mode and it presents its own challenges.

The Laptop keyboard is pretty compact - and when my hands naturally rest on the keyboard, my fingers are stretched out flat. For me, its very natural to not curl my hands up over the keys the whole time I am typing or when I am navigating with the mouse. In these situations, my hand will stretch up over the touch bar and "miss-hit" a control. On a regular keyboard, this is not a problem. But the touch bar is so sensitive, that even slightly hovering over a key will register a hit.

Another thing is the escape key. I didn't think I would miss it so much until I started using a spreadsheet (numbers) and realized that I hit escape all the time when editing functions / cells.

Overall, after 3 weeks, I hate it. It gets in the way more than it provides any reasonable functionality.

0/10 Total Fail


That pretty much sums it up for me. Touch Bar is great for average users who cannot touch type and do not rely on keyboard shortcuts. However, for power users and professionals who take full advantage of keyboard shortcuts (and a physical escape key), TB is beyond useless. I can’t think of a single use for TB that cannot be accomplished more quickly and efficiently with a keyboard shortcut. Not to mention that with keyboard shortcuts, you do not have to look away from the screen, which is very important for workflow. When I first got my tbMBP 13 inch and first started playing around with TB’s features, I found myself thinking “Well, there’s already a shortcut for that” over and over. Compose New Email? Command-N. Send? Command-Shift-D. Google Search in Safari? Command-L . etc. The only reason I got the TB version was because to get the better CPU , TID, and 4 ports, you HAVE to get the TB version. It’s almost as if Apple held the better CPU and extra ports hostage, knowing that most professionals would have chosen a NON-touchbar version with better CPU, TID, and 4 ports if it was available, so they used them as leverage to extort us into getting a Touch Bar MBP.

I guess expanded control strip will have to suffice, but it feels like a half measure.
 
Also, don't know if anyone else is experiencing this, but every now and then, the control strip on my touchbar disappears (while the app controls in the touchbar remain)... If I touch the position where I know the buttons are, they re-appear, but to get the whole thing back, I need to touch the space where the "<" (expand control strip) is to expand and then re-minimize...

I have this same problem. It makes the TB quite a bit less useful. The frequency has been reduced by switching to "Touch Bar Shows: Expanded Control Strip" in System Preferences, but it still happens.

I have this too. It only started after installing 10.12.3. I spoke to a Genius about it and they were not aware of an issue. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone else has identified the cause of the problem - this is already a replacement unit and I don't really want to swap for another one if this is a bug!
 
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Nice long review however Apple will still state that those who don't like the TB or accidently touching it while typing are very few. People should remember Appe is not going to abandon the TB only enhance it. I expect to see touch haptic feedback added.

To be fair they may be right people on this forum are not the typical user, and most people will either like it and take to it or not. I think some times with some people (reviewers included) they get use to doing things a certain way and then when things change they prefer to stick to what they already know, it boils down to the old saying that humans don't like change. I don't expect Apple to abandon the Touc Bar at all I think you are right and they will only enhance it, maybe there will eventually be no keys to type on and it will all be a Touch Bar or Touch Keys instead.
 
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