Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[sidewinder]

I am done. There is no helping you on this so why don't you just stop posting about it so some other poor fool doesn't get sucked in trying to help someone who, by his own admission, cannot be helped.

 

[sn0warmy]

I've had my 13" tMBP for just over a week and the touch bar is really starting to irritate me. It comes in very handy with apps like Spark email and Safari. However, I'm finding it to become extremely glitchy as time has progressed. For instance, when playing videos, the play/pause buttons randomly disappear and even the timeline indicator will go completely black before just portions of it will come back. It also fails to reset when leaving one video and moving on to another.

Overall, I still love the laptop but I'm truly hoping the issues I'm seeing can be resolved with simple software updates and isn't a hardware issue. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[RandomAppleUsers]

So I would like to ask, why wouldn't anyone want to replace a row of keys set in its functionality when you could have a touch area that can add value by changing its contents on the fly? Does it require you look down? Sometimes. But so what? What if it's an action tied to a menu item that would have required hovering over a menu, getting into another nested menu, clicking something and then confirming? You'd want that shortcut whit looking down and perhaps also blinking to relieve stress on your eyes from staring at the screen, right?

Wait, are you trolling? Why would you try to generalise? I never look down on my keyboard and to perform an input with the TB takes me 2075% longer than it did with my previous MBP. Am I inferring that you face the same input costs? Obviously not. So why would you try to generalise?

There are obviously user groups that will answer your question with 'right' and other user groups with 'wrong'. Wouldn't it be more interesting to discuss who these user groups are and how they differ? Why do people have to take their and others design requirements personally? You are just a user group, get over yourself.

I mean have you even read my comments? Because I have answered your questions. I don't want to bore this forum with elaborate theories from human ergonomics which I am currently doing a PhD on. But there are clearly increased quantitative costs associated with the TB as I tried to explain in this post:

To take a step back, I have argued that input speed and accuracy significantly decrease and cognitive load increases with the TB.

A whole other question is the significance of these values to certain user groups. A high-level distinction may be made between users who use 'touch typing' (i.e. typing without using the sense of sight to find the keys and type with 10 fingers) and the novice-style "hunt and peck" (i.e. typing by finding keys by sight).

Touch typists may value input speed, input accuracy and cognitive load significantly higher then 'hunt and peck' typists (that is why they may have learned touch typing after all). They don't look away from the source (screen) and don't have to use hand-eye coordination to perform inputs - until now with the TB. That can be perceived as quite a disruption to the input style. (That is how I perceive it)

This sums up my reservations:
For a touch typist not unusual, I have a word/minute average of around 90, or 500 characters per minute = 8.3 inputs per second. Performing a single input using the Touchbar costs me 2.5 seconds (lowering the volume). That is an increase of input completion time by 2075%.
(For reference, I got a mechanical 'Das Keyboard' in the hope to increase my input efficiency by 10%)

Touch typists also face significantly higher qualitative costs such as increased cognitive load/loss of attention. And after TB inputs, you have to reset the hand and fingers again. For 'hunt and peck' typists, these costs may not significantly differ from their regular input and and they are also trained and used to rely on hand-eye coordination in their input. And thus perceive the TB ergonomically as not problematic.

How important design values of input speed, input accuracy and cognitive load are may differ between user groups. You don't seem to care much about your input efficiency. That's fine my mother does neither - these are subjective values. But it is not subjective that the ergonomic costs (which are quantifiable) are increased (for 'touch typist' user groups) with the TB.

Companies like Apple etc. do endless studies like these to improve the usability of inputs.

EDIT: Liat, I just read your previous post and agree with you. There is no point (on this forum) to come to an 'agreement' but simply to exchange factors that contribute to better and worse user experiences with the TB. Some users here seem to think they can 'win' if their user group is better represented in this forum, or even better, 'fix' others' requirements. This forum is clearly not a representative sample and even if - why not appreciate the diversity in us I personally found your use case fascinating. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Liat]

"Seriously? Fading in and out is now a problem?"

I suppose this was your help.

I told your idea was good and it might help some people, it’s just not enough for everyone. I also told there might be good uses of the Touch Bar. My example was Photoshop, somehow similar to sn0warmy’s examples: playing videos, browsing the net. These are quick and interactive activities.

I explained it’s a problem when you are focusing on creating.

Try that at least once in your life. I suggest do it on a computer that’s not blinking. Trust me, it has its benefits.
[doublepost=1484177057][/doublepost]

EDIT: Liat, I just read your previous post and agree with you. There is no point (on this forum) to come to an 'agreement' but simply to exchange factors that contribute to better and worse user experiences with the TB. Some users here seem to think they can 'win' if their user group is better represented in this forum. This forum is clearly not a representative sample and even if - why not appreciate the diversity in us I personally found your use case very fascinating. Thanks for sharing!

Wow. I wonder how you can even post here. Didn’t you know you didn’t exist?

You can’t. I’m sorry for that, I wish you could, but I’ve learned today I’m the single alien in this solar system, if not in the whole galaxy, who wants to have a computer rather than a Christmas Tree on my desk when I’m working.

Somehow all the rest 6,999,999,999 inhabitants of planet Earth can work the best if there is a laser show going on front of their eyes, right below the display.

I think you are my hallucination. Not that hallucination who opened this thread. The other one.

Sorry, I’m lost in counting my split personalities. It happened because I’m adopting right now, and there is not enough blinking going on front of my eyes to be able to do the math. I will fetch a stroboscope or something like that.
[doublepost=1484178936][/doublepost]

How important design values of input speed, input accuracy and cognitive load are may differ between user groups.

I’ve heard there is a parallel universe with editors such as "vim" and "emacs" optimized not only for not using the mouse but for rarely moving the hands away from the home row. In that parallel universe many programmers use Macbook Pro’s day by day. When they sleep, they dream about many things but somehow sending emojis from the place where there used to be function keys has been never documented in any of their dream-journals.

I’m glad I’m living not there but in this dimension where people have so much more imagination I often find it hard to catch up. But I promise I will not only follow the trend, I will lead it, and by using Apple’s next, face expression based pro-keyboard, I will send an emoji to Tim Cook he never imagined it could exist.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I really wish they'd offer a non Touch Bar MBP that still has Touch ID - I'd literally pay the same amount (I know it has to has the little iOS secure enclave etc). I just simply don't want the Touch Bar itself at all.

Hell - I'd go "no touch ID" if they'd just offer all the specs as "with or without" Touch Bar.

It's just really not a thing everyone wants, myself included. To some of us it's a distracting step backwards that just gets in the way.

 

[BarracksSi]

F you all. My next MB Pro will have the touch bar.

Now I just need my mid-2012 to self-destruct. Too bad it's running great now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

F you all.

Be nice man - c'mon..

 

[RichardF]

Wait, are you trolling? Why would you try to generalise? I never look down on my keyboard and to perform an input with the TB takes me 2075% longer than it did with my previous MBP. Am I inferring that you face the same input costs? Obviously not. So why would you try to generalise?

There are obviously user groups that will answer your question with 'right' and other user groups with 'wrong'. Wouldn't it be more interesting to discuss who these user groups are and how they differ? Why do people have to take their and others design requirements personally? You are just a user group, get over yourself.

I mean have you even read my comments? Because I have answered your questions. I don't want to bore this forum with elaborate theories from human ergonomics which I am currently doing a PhD on. But there are clearly increased quantitative costs associated with the TB as I tried to explain in this post:



How important design values of input speed, input accuracy and cognitive load are may differ between user groups. You don't seem to care much about your input efficiency. That's fine my mother does neither - these are subjective values. But it is not subjective that the ergonomic costs (which are quantifiable) are increased (for 'touch typist' user groups) with the TB.

Companies like Apple etc. do endless studies like these to improve the usability of inputs.

EDIT: Liat, I just read your previous post and agree with you. There is no point (on this forum) to come to an 'agreement' but simply to exchange factors that contribute to better and worse user experiences with the TB. Some users here seem to think they can 'win' if their user group is better represented in this forum, or even better, 'fix' others' requirements. This forum is clearly not a representative sample and even if - why not appreciate the diversity in us I personally found your use case fascinating. Thanks for sharing!

@RandomAppleUsers

Hello to you too!

That was pretty rude.

I was having a chat with @Liat, not you. I respect his (and others') wanting to be able to eliminate all/ any source of lighting. The problem is not perception, it's the inability to ignore the visual stimuli or one's tolerance for it. Perhaps you'd like to discuss this instead.

So, no, I did not read what you wrote.

The part you quoted from what I wrote refers to the ability to customize actions which would otherwise take much longer to perform on screen than glancing down at the Touch Bar an tapping it.
That's desirable, to some groups to follow along in your logic. But not to you?

One thing stood out besides mentioning you are on your way to become an expert in a particular field which will require you to be open minded and evolve: your doing the same thing you are recommending I don't, i.e: value your particular usage patterns and ability over someone else's.
For someone whose message is "try and and better understand the reasons why and the implications" you come across as pretty forceful in your zeal to impose your view/ take on this.

Yes, the Touch Bar content changes based on what you are doing.
How much time do you actually need to spend on the keys located on the row replaced by the Touch Bar, say on average in a day when you are typing away?
If you ask me, the touch-typists I know don't concern themselves with changing the brightness of their screen/ keyboard and hitting that Mission Control key all that often. This of course does not mean it is of no importance to you. Perhaps it is.

You are discounting the potential this has in the hands of Apple and the developers.
Apple has heard the feedback on the esc key. Everyone gets it.


Your obsession with speed/ accuracy (they matter a *lot* of course) and the arguments you put forth would carry more weight if using a computer were a sustained effort in time - every time.
Input is only a portion of the interaction.
How about the time spent adjusting the keyboard/ laptop, your chair, yourself on your chair?
Sipping your beverage, answering a call, the time spent reading, thinking?
Have you accounted for fatigue and interruptions and distractions? If so, how?
What about the value and benefits customization represents?
That time you spent changing your text to bold in your post? A tap away on the Touch Bar. Sometimes it isn't just about the speed of the execution: the how matters matters to. Some people might want to trade a bit of a delay for convenience. Because why not?

Customization (you can be sure it is coming) in turn learning by heart the contents of your particular Touch Bar on your particular laptop does? Say Apple implements better and more control over the Touch Bar, wouldn't you be back exactly where you started with the fixed row of keys, thus eliminating the bottleneck?


And what are you trying to convey? That the Touch Bar is a bad idea, is a bad idea in its current implementation and you have a better solution, is requiring people to change their habits and that a good/ bad thing, or...?
You state the obvious, the Touch Bar requires that I slow down for "certain inputs" "sometimes".
It's a valid point (because it's true) but who cares besides you and the people in your group?


Talking about the different groups of users and why they are different?
Knock yourself out.


Actually, don't bother, I am not really all that interested in reading your eventual reply. Good luck with your endeavors.


Love this laptop!

 

[borgusio]

This thread is starting to become quite weird...

I try to summarize my pros and cons:
- Pros: more screen real estate by moving to the touch bar, the buttons which normally would be on the menu on top
- Pros: most used shortcuts available in one click
- Pros: it speeds up the workflow of people used to look at the keyboard when typing
- Cons: Cumbersome tactile switch between physical keys and touchscreen (could be fixed with haptic feedback in the next revision)
- Cons: Missing physical Escape button (could be fixed by shortening the touch bar and adding a real button in the next revision)
- Cons: Resolution and brightness do not match the retina screen (could be fixed with the next revision)
- Cons: accidental hit of keys on the TB (no idea if it can be fixed or not)
- Cons: It slows down the workflow of people used to look at the screen when typing (it cannot be fixed)

All in all, it seems like the TB is just very immature, since the main Cons can be solved in the next review. For all people who cannot live with the negatives, at present the only solution is to wait for the next revision of the touch bar.

After that we will probably split in two groups:
- Those looking at the screen while typing -> they will still hate it, with some exceptions
- Those looking at the keyboard while typing -> they will love it, with some exceptions

I belong to the first group. Unfortunately, the second group is significantly larger than the first one.
So I assume that sooner or later I will have to adjust to it anyways.

This first release is just not mature enough for me. That's why I wish apple would give me the choice to buy a 13" with full specs, four usb-c and no touch bar, otherwise I see no reason to upgrade from my MB 12... Well, in all honesty I would get one more USB-C port and a bit larger screen, but not worth the 800 EUR price difference IMHO.

 

[sidewinder]

Somehow all the rest 6,999,999,999 inhabitants of planet Earth can work the best if there is a laser show going on front of their eyes, right below the display.

Laser show? I had you down to one small 3 letter sized section of the Touch Bar that would dim after 60 seconds of inactivity and go off after 75 seconds. That would be a laser show to about .00000001429% of the Earth's population. I bet you can do the math.

 

[RichardF]

This thread is starting to become quite weird...

[...]

Yes, post #679 is a little weird.

Laser show? I had you down to one small 3 letter sized section of the Touch Bar that would dim after 60 seconds of inactivity and go off after 75 seconds. That would be a laser show to about .00000001429% of the Earth's population. I bet you can do the math.

He was trying to be funny. No problem.

Our PhD student above deserves all the attention it seems.

 

[BarracksSi]

F you all. My next MB Pro will have the touch bar.

Now I just need my mid-2012 to self-destruct. Too bad it's running great now.

Be nice man - c'mon..

Yeah yeah.

Anybody know a good way to wreck my old MBP so I can easily justify to my wife that I suddenly need the new one? Maybe the ol' Russian roulette version of rm -rf?

 

[Dave245]

Yeah yeah.

Anybody know a good way to wreck my old MBP so I can easily justify to my wife that I suddenly need the new one? Maybe the ol' Russian roulette version of rm -rf?

"Accidentally" fall over and drop it down the stairs?

 

[RandomAppleUsers]

How much time do you actually need to spend on the keys located on the row replaced by the Touch Bar, say on average in a day when you are typing away?

I, again, answered your question before you even asked it:

But I very often adjust the volume (1 up/down), mute the volume and skip songs multiple times an hour, and adjust the brightness multiple times a day (1-3 up/down). This is simply part of my workflow (e.g. while writing and coding).

Like many others, I internalised these movements so that I don't have to 'think' about performing the input. Like when I tie my shoes. I 'just know' how to tie my shoes. Practices like these are performed through muscle memory (they become so natural that we even forget how we do them).

The TB is forcing me to appoint my attention towards completing these inputs. My mind becomes occupied and called away from my work. It also increases the error rates and task completion times significantly.

Your obsession with speed/ accuracy (they matter a *lot* of course) and the arguments you put forth would carry more weight if using a computer were a sustained effort in time - every time.
Input is only a portion of the interaction.
How about the time spent adjusting the keyboard/ laptop, your chair, yourself on your chair?
Sipping your beverage, answering a call, the time spent reading, thinking?
Have you accounted for fatigue and interruptions and distractions? If so, how?
What about the value and benefits customization represents?
That time you spent changing your text to bold in your post? A tap away on the Touch Bar. Sometimes it isn't just about the speed of the execution: the how matters matters to. Some people might want to trade a bit of a delay for convenience. Because why not?

Especially because you have all these other efforts involved in using a computer, designers try to improve individual components. The reduction of manual labour is a key goal of computers. This includes inputs. So the user can occupy his mind with 'important' human aspects of work: thinking, conceptualising and creativity instead of the achievement of motor movements.

Customization (you can be sure it is coming) in turn learning by heart the contents of your particular Touch Bar on your particular laptop does? Say Apple implements better and more control over the Touch Bar, wouldn't you be back exactly where you started with the fixed row of keys, thus eliminating the bottleneck?

No. Please read my two comments again. The issue is not memorising the inputs but the necessity of eye-hand coordination to activate them ('looking down' with the associated error rates and decreased input speed). I have clearly explained how the TB can lead to changes in input methods (for touch typists) and even make the important bits bold. (Which I do by pressing Cmd+B - without looking on my keyboard. This is not to say that everyone should do it (obviously), but to show you that you are not every user and your user experiences are not representative for mine, and vice versa).

And what are you trying to convey? That the Touch Bar is a bad idea, is a bad idea in its current implementation and you have a better solution, is requiring people to change their habits and that a good/ bad thing, or...?

You don't get it. As I explained, there is no purpose in generalising TB experiences across all users. And I certainly don't impose myself above others and require them to change their user requirements to fit a product's design (I mean c'mon).

You state the obvious, the Touch Bar requires that I slow down for "certain inputs" "sometimes".
It's a valid point (because it's true) but who cares besides you and the people in your group?

But maybe you do get it. That's what I am saying all along - users who value input speed may be presented with a bad UX. And there is obviously nothing wrong with not caring much about input speed.

But, you know, on a meta level if that's your opinion about design then that's fine with me. I'm not here to teach you how to be a User Experience Researcher but to share how a UX Researcher at Apple looks at this issue. (Although human ergonomics are just one small part of a design decision). I am clearly in a user group that is not the primary target and that's fine with me.
I became a UX Researcher because I became fascinated with the diversity of user requirements. You won't believe the weird ways in which people use products. You need to detach yourself from individuals' experiences and look for overarching themes in their experiences and reasons why they may experience what they experience.

I'm out. Hope you have a great weekend.

 

[Liat]

Yeah yeah.
so I can easily justify to my wife that I suddenly need the new one? Maybe the ol' Russian roulette version of rm -rf?

Russian roulette might work if you meant you needed the new MBP. If you meant you needed the new wife, then Russian roulette sounds a bit rude. But that’s only me. There might be legal consequences though.

 

[Liat]

Today I visited a general electric store. They had the Surface on display. (I didn’t check which version).

I touched it. The first impression was the touch pad both sounded and felt plastic. I knew I couldn’t stand it.

The keyboard seemed okay.

The best part was the display. While the red was a color I call "samsung-red", the white was impressive, as well the resolution. The Surface’s display seemed to be not worse, probably better than the Macbook’s display after the three minutes I spent with it.

This was all the good I could tell about the computer. The side of the screen was full of holes. The Surface’s body made me wonder why Microsoft thought they should have discovered an unknown area of the geometry. There were two or three buttons on the top left edge of the display. Their primary function is to stop you thinking on whether the rest of the design flaws are accidental or systematic.

The jack is on the top right of the display, as most of the Microsoft developers simply can’t work without a headphone cable jumping between their eyes and the screen at random times in various angles. I can finally understand Windows 8.

I wouldn’t notice most of these on the official pictures.

There was only one sticker on it, which is a big step forward, but it’s still infinite times more than it should be. Sticker glue can be removed neither with normal cleaning liquids nor with ethanol (whisky). Isopropyl alcohol works but it’s toxic.

The final issue might be annoying even for normal people. Every time I moved it I was afraid it would fall apart. Overall I liked it better than most of the PC laptops, yet the build quality was one of the worsts. During my childhood I didn’t break a single toy, but if I would receive a Surface as a gift, I would insure it before unboxing.

There were a few laptops in the store that would excel in one area or two. Still, at the end, I was wondering why there were no paintings on the walls, since it felt like I was walking in a museum.

None of the above is related to their performances. Some would perform well. All I checked out was whether I wanted to have any of them front of me for more than five minutes.

Not counting the yellow displays*, both the Macbook and the Macbook Pro were superior compared to the PC laptops, as physical objects.

(Which makes me hate the Touch Bar even more)

*: I might open a thread about this later

 

[RichardF]

@RandomAppleUsers And the conclusion is what? That decisions are consensus-driven based on the constraints that impose themselves in any situation? Wouldn't it be nice if we never had to compromise? The true meaning of being and awareness. You could have it all exactly the way you think or feel it and the universe (and people in it) would morph to espouse the new reality.

I do get it when it comes to the general public. Some poor souls spend a vast amount of time designing the unboxing experience for the iPhone for instance. I watched countless times people who look like they have no business owning an Apple device just flip the box over to get the phone in their hands instead of pulling on the transparent plastic tab to lift, which they didn't even notice existed.

How many have you see not even lock their phone and just stuff it in their purse or pocket?
Don't they think, what happens to the screen input(s) until the device goes to zleep.

Then you could argue the design and decisions made are a failure then, right? Why would it be the user's fault?

Do you want to be the best? Or do you want to be (commercially) successful?
Those two mean/ imply different things.

You may not see this but I tried to explain to you that you simply don't know either (it jumps at me when I read you, could be wording but I don't think so), despite your path and passion/ current knowledge. Though you put yourself on the same level as Apple folks and think you understand they decisions and design process.




@Liat, this post was very funny!

And there are a lot of people who love the Surface. Imagine that!

I personally don't care for Windows or I'd look at a Dell XPS 13" these days.
I cannot recommend the Lenovo Yoga 2 or 3 Pro. I have both and the trackpads are absolute garbage. For a company the size of Lenovo + the spyware and crap they come loaded with, it's outrageous.

And I am with you on the propensity Apple seem to have when it comes producing devices with a yellow screen. I have easily gone through 2 dozen devices over the years which I have returned until I got one without the Yellow tint or hue or look or whatever we should call it.

It could be a false dilemma but it sounds to me like a great team should storm the market to address the concurrent dichotomy between Apple & Google and Apple & Microsoft.
Until then I am so happy Apple exist.

 

[Wakey87433]

I just got my TB last night and some people have mentioned that the resolution is low. The touch bar looks great if your looking at it right from above but in reality who does that? From an angle, which is how one types on a laptop the TB looses it's clarity and fades out. I was typing last night with it on my lap and at times I could not even see what was on the touch bar. I tilted the laptop towards me and the touch bar keys were much more clear and detectable.

I'm also accidentally hitting the touch bar in error twice I hit the brightness up and keyboard brightness up which threw it to max setting. (I had the TB set to always show expanded keys) Maybe I need to give it some more time.

Sure its clearer looking right down on it but I've never had an issue viewing it from a standard viewing angle myself
[doublepost=1484249930][/doublepost]

Liat,

You have to admit, you are a very usual person with very unusual requirements. Anyone that needs to hide every LED in their home is not anywhere close to typical. You must realize that Apple is not designing their computers for outliers like you. No company is. You should realize this and accept it as nominal. You should also realize your complaints, while valid to you, seem strange to most people. It doesn't do you any good to complain here, and that is what you are doing, so you might want to complain to an entity that actually has a chance of doing something about it.

I get the feeling his problem is in his head. If he isn't using the backlight on the keyboard then he is using his computer with room lights on then I can't see how static LED's would be a distraction. In the dark I can perhaps see his point about the TB because the fading in and out can catch your eye in the dark (although the more I memorise the TB controls for each app the less I'm naturally paying attention to the TB so I don't even notice when the bar turns off even in the dark) but a lit up room its really not noticeable
[doublepost=1484250497][/doublepost]

By the way, if I’m the only one on the world concerned about the blacklit, why is it possible to turn it off?

Because there are times you don't need it. For example if you are in a light place (such as during the day) you can save a bit of battery without the backlight and you can see the keys so don't need it. Also you may be using the computer just to play music with the screen blank and you don't want the backlight lighting up the room. Its not though because people get distracted by it while typing.

Any why is that the most expensive Asus routers finally have a button that really shuts down every, I mean, every light on the router? If they created the product only for me, they should have written my name on it. I think I will compain why they didn’t.

Perhaps because a router is an always on device where the light could be annoying such as lighting up a room where you are trying to sleep in. People generally don't leave their MacBook on though. I have any LED's on devices and the likes in my room covered with electrical tape as I find it annoying but only when the rooms dark and I want a dark room to sleep in
[doublepost=1484250773][/doublepost]

That’s why I use clothes or paper instead of duck tape to hide the lights around me.

Seeing as most things with LED's in them also get hot putting a piece of paper on them seems crazy and clothes almost certainly will cause it to overheat as well

 

[BarracksSi]

Russian roulette might work if you meant you needed the new MBP. If you meant you needed the new wife, then Russian roulette sounds a bit rude. But that’s only me. There might be legal consequences though.

Ah, I meant a little script command that picks a random integer between 1 and 6, then if it's a 1 (I think), it runs the rm -rf command to wipe out the entire HD. In other words, you type it in, hit Enter, and you've got a 1-in-6 chance of losing everything.
[doublepost=1484251468][/doublepost]A couple tangents here --

How many have you see not even lock their phone and just stuff it in their purse or pocket?
Don't they think, what happens to the screen input(s) until the device goes to zleep.

I can't speak for all phone models, but mine sleeps as it goes into a pocket. It uses its proximity sensor (at least) to realize that the big thing touching its entire screen is the pocket and not my hand.

And I am with you on the propensity Apple seem to have when it comes producing devices with a yellow screen. I have easily gone through 2 dozen devices over the years which I have returned until I got one without the Yellow tint or hue or look or whatever we should call it.

Did you, or could you, do any calibration of the color profiles on any of these devices?

I've set my Macs to have a more natural, paper-like color profile. When I got my Win10 work laptop, I was struck by how blue-ish the display was. None of the photos I saw onscreen looked natural, either. I eventually found out how to adjust it, but the difference between its default setting and my preference was pretty dramatic.

 

[Teach4]

Yeah yeah.

Anybody know a good way to wreck my old MBP so I can easily justify to my wife that I suddenly need the new one? Maybe the ol' Russian roulette version of rm -rf?

How old is your MBP? Mine was a 2012. I don't have a husband or anyone to justify to except myself. The age would be something to consider.

 

[Clint_Barton]

Quick question, supposedly the touchbar is multi-touch, but I have not been able to get it to register more than one finger. Any thoughts?
EDIT: does register more than one finger, but not as far as i have found in final cut

 

[RichardF]

Ah, I meant a little script command that picks a random integer between 1 and 6, then if it's a 1 (I think), it runs the rm -rf command to wipe out the entire HD. In other words, you type it in, hit Enter, and you've got a 1-in-6 chance of losing everything.
[doublepost=1484251468][/doublepost]A couple tangents here --

I can't speak for all phone models, but mine sleeps as it goes into a pocket. It uses its proximity sensor (at least) to realize that the big thing touching its entire screen is the pocket and not my hand.


Did you, or could you, do any calibration of the color profiles on any of these devices?

I've set my Macs to have a more natural, paper-like color profile. When I got my Win10 work laptop, I was struck by how blue-ish the display was. None of the photos I saw onscreen looked natural, either. I eventually found out how to adjust it, but the difference between its default setting and my preference was pretty dramatic.

@BarracksSi

I believe the proximity sensor only works when a call is active.

RE: the color temp of the screen out of the box, no I didn't make any attempts to calibrate.
I want a blueish or as close to neutral as possible right out of the box.
It's very hard to capture with a camera, handheld without the proper white balance setting but in person it's obvious, you take out the phone or computer, turn it on and that welcome set-up screen in iOS for instance does not look white as it should.

I found the only fix is to exchange it for another. It's such a waste really but there is no "fix" for it.
Some prefer the warmer color temp but to me I need white to look white.

Here is an example, you may not be able to tell in the picture but posting anyway.
On the far left is my iPhone 6. Love the screen on that phone.

 

[BarracksSi]

How old is your MBP? Mine was a 2012. I don't have a husband or anyone to justify to except myself. The age would be something to consider.

Mine's a mid-2012 pre-Retina 13" with 1TB HD. Before that, I had a 2007 15" that I had bumped up to a 500GB HD. I got the 2012 when I felt that, to get a terabyte's worth of space, I'd rather spend a lot less and get a regular HD instead of a still-expensive SSD.
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I believe the proximity sensor only works when a call is active.

Seems like my iPhone SE always shuts its screen off as I put it away. Eh, whichever; I habitually push the top button most of the time when I put it away anyway, but when I don't, I'm pretty sure it goes to sleep on its own.

RE: the color temp of the screen out of the box, no I didn't make any attempts to calibrate.
I want a blueish or as close to neutral as possible right out of the box.

Gotcha. Yeah, there's no way to calibrate an iOS device from the user's end.

I despise a bluish tint myself. Reminds me of the crappy Win95 boxes in the student computer lab in college.

I like the new Night Shift feature on my SE, too, and I started using f.lux on my MBP a couple weeks ago. You wanna talk about yellow? It makes the screen nearly orange as I get closer to bedtime. When I disable it temporarily and bring the blue back, my eyes take a hit as they try to adjust. *I disable f.lux for Photos, though, because it's obviously impossible to edit a photo when the screen tint has almost no blue light content.

But, no, I don't need "white" to appear like "bleached copier paper at noon on a sunny day". I like having it look like the paper that's next to me on the table.

 

[Liat]

How old is your MBP? Mine was a 2012. I don't have a husband or anyone to justify to except myself. The age would be something to consider.

Mine is also late 2012, retina 13 inch.

A fully upgraded 15 inch 2016 MBP would be an upgrade regarding the speed and disk space. A Macbook would be light enough to carry around every day. Otherwise, it’s working perfectly. I can’t justify (for myself) to get a 2016 MBP 13 inch, no TB as an upgrade. (I use the iMac or a server when I need CPU power).

I have had its battery replaced this year. That’s all. It’s a wonderful machine.
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Did you, or could you, do any calibration of the color profiles on any of these devices?

If you mean software calibration, it doesn’t help.

When I got the iMac back with the new and Macbook-yellow screen, I tried using the "Calibrate..." menu.

Yellow is made of red and green (in additive color mixing). I belive the Calibrate... shifts from red to blue. As soon as I didn’t see it yellow, it was blue-turquoise with dead red. The color profiles didn’t help either, probably none of them is meant to be called "fix the yellow screens we’ll start using the next year".

I used to have a hardware calibrator but it’s not here now. I’m undecided whether I should ask for a replacement or not. It takes two weeks and I might get another yellow one. However, I managed to measure it, and it’s yellow for sure.

My late 2012 MBP is magenta. It disturbs me less. Yellow is dirty for many (including me), magenta-purple is like ice cream or fruits (or magic). I read about these when I did research about brand logos.

Technically, the shift on my 2012 MBP is larger, and while it doesn’t disturb me, I can’t work with colors on it. For example, if I mix dark red (blood) on it, others see it brown on other displays (it’s not red enough as it was made on an already red display).

For me, the yellow is the worst when it’s on grayscale. It’s like a sepia effect gone wrong. Half of my UI is greyscale including a metallic theme for Chrome. If I had to work with grayscale photos for hours each day, I’d go mad. I don’t notice it after a while when writing text or code.

My iPhone 6S and the iPad Air 2 are white. The original retina iMac screen was white too. Due to administration errors with the order, I had three retina iMacs in two weeks in 2015 (late 2014 models). As far as I can tell they all were white.

 

[Liat]

I despise a bluish tint myself. Reminds me of the crappy Win95 boxes in the student computer lab in college.

I second that. My Vaio was cold blue and I hated that. The Eizo in the basement has a horizontal red-blue shift that never disturbed me as its anti-glare coating made my eyes burn too much to notice it. I almost like the magenta screen on the 2012 MBP, even though that’s not so far from blue. The yellow is dirty but it’s nothing compared to blue.

I read humans can sleep with red lights because the cavemen used to sleep next to the campfire which is red-orange. This is why the night-shift mode is reddish.

I don’t know where or when the cavemen could see blue lights in the night. Maybe the alien spaceships were blue. No wonder cavemen couldn’t sleep well when they came to build the pyramids or who knows what.