Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Touch Bar discussion [merged]
- Thread starter Starfyre
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Haven't you noticed that Amazon is telling us that voice commands are the future. Just look at Alexa
Yeah, except that every single comment I have read so far on the linked page (I’m at the bottom of the first page) agreed with the author. I still haven’t found a single comment there which didn’t agree.
Regardless of the subject I have probably never seen such thing on the Internet.
And this was just the first random page I clicked on after I googled for Touch Bar something.
If the comments all agree, that says more about who the article attracts than about what most people think. Most people here wouldn't agree, for example. And relatively few have the trouble with accidentally touching.
I believe. I can even believe that Google search more likely shows me articles written by people who don’t like the Touch Bar. I’m not ironic now, that’s exacly how Google works, and it’s getting smarter.
There is a point there though which has supporters here, and it’s a good one. At the end, the problem may disappear for many not because Apple removes the Touch Bar but thanks to the Macbook. If the 2017 Macbook will perform better than the current model (which is already not bad), I see no reason for me to buy anything else. I remember how awesome it was having a computer for the first time which didn’t make me think three times whether I should carry it around or not.
I will pray for a fully upgradeable no-TB one. And not later than Q2 please, then we can close this thread.
Well, prayer is the proper mode for that, because it would be a miracle.
I don't have a problem with the TouchBar but I hardly ever use it. A lot of times, I have an external monitor and keyboard hooked up. For the trackpad, this isn't a problem because an external version is available. However there is no separate external keyboard with TouchBar/TouchID.
And I'm wondering if we'll actually get one. I bet that the TouchBar requires a fair bit of power, it being an OLED display. So an external keyboard will either be connected via USB, or it will have a fairly hefty battery.
However since desktops make up for a rather small percentage of Apple computer sales, I wouldn't be surprised if we just never get a separate keyboard with TouchBar/TouchID.
I thought the Touch Bar was run by the same chipset as the Apple Watch, which makes it very small. I think following Apple's usual trend of putting a new tech in one product and then adopting it to others, we are likely to see the Touch Bar appear with the iMac at some point, Apple will more than likely want at least Touch ID for the iMac, how they will do it i don't know. Also there is a rumour that a feature similar to the Touch Bar will be appearing on the new iPhone 8 later this year, apparently it will be a function bar or something which will be where the home button currently is.
http://www.techradar.com/news/iphon...-id-with-a-macbook-pro-inspired-function-area
The bigger problem with the TouchBar on the desktop would be the distraction of moving your eyes all the way down to where your hands/keys are relative to the screen is, and back. It's a completely different deal than with a laptop where the screen literally connects to where the TB lives basically.
I personally just hope they TB can become more optional on several models.
It's a completely mixed bag for the more traditional, long time, pro users and it'd be really great if Apple didn't force it on everyone that happens to want/need a high end laptop.
I personally just hope they TB can become more optional on several models.
It's a completely mixed bag for the more traditional, long time, pro users and it'd be really great if Apple didn't force it on everyone that happens to want/need a high end laptop.
You mean the Macbook? I wasn’t talking the MBP but the Macbook.
If you also meant the Macbook, and you will be right, we are so doomed.
The last MacBook wasn't upgradable, so I don't expect the next one will be either. May or may not have a touch bar. Given that the non-touch-bar MBP has been discounted since it came out, I suspect Apple has found the touch bar is a selling point, not a drawback. Not a matter of doom either way, to vast majority of people!
I believe the 2015 MBP 15" will be the last 15" MBP to NOT feature the TB.
You mean, except the two SSD and the three CPU options?
If this is true, someone should send an email to webmaster@apple.com. When I click on MBP / Buy on apple.com, the left one is without TB.
If you mean the 2015 model was discontinued, this proves that somehow it makes sense to put the year into the name of the specific models.
You lost me on each point. Can't follow what you're getting at. In any case, I meant exactly what I said.
But it's a gimmick as it really doesn't serve any real value add. Yes, I'm sure some will claim the contrary but in the grander scheme of things the idea of this thing is an admission that Apple don't know what to do next with the MBP. Then there's that toy MBP without the touchbar thingie. How can a Pro machine only have two ports? Is this a further erosion of the "Pro" concept like when integrated GPUs are christened MBPs?
[doublepost=1489897033][/doublepost]
And the 2015 models are the last Magsafe models. Stupid Apple. You are a stupid company for doing that.
I think it's all opinion based for example this guy seems to like it https://chromatichq.com/blog/my-favorite-mac-decade-13-macbook-pro-touch-bar he likes the new Macbook's over all. I think because the Touch Bar is a new feature it will take some time to get use to also developers need time to make it even more useful with their apps.
I’m sorry to hear that, however, I always want to understand, and I would like to learn about computers. Would you please help?
What would make the last Macbook upgradeable? If it would be possible to do what?
Which non-touch-bar MBP has been discounted?
Thank you for the clarification in advance.
What will be interesting to see is when the fall comes and Apple announces a new 2017 MBP will they continue to sell the 2015 MBP 15" with iGPU or will we see that drop off the production line?
I'm actually very surprised they are still producing the 2015 15" because usually when Apple wants to push a new feature like the TB they remove prior models so ALL the public gets on board with the new feature.
I'm actually very surprised they are still producing the 2015 15" because usually when Apple wants to push a new feature like the TB they remove prior models so ALL the public gets on board with the new feature.
Let’s see his examples for me:
"Play/Pause Music in iTunes/Spotify."
I do this 2-3 times a day. When I do it, I decide what I will listen to of thousands of tracks.
"Scrubbing music, audio files."
I don’t know how large my whole music collection is, but I know the library I listen to the most often contains ~4800 tracks. It would be interesting to see how Touch Bar would help me browse it. The previous versions of Audirvana had issues with simply displaying it as a list (without images and stuff).
"Adjusting Volume."
This is the funniest one. I can hardly imagine anyone who is either pro or audiophile would or even could use the software volume control. If you know what you are doing, that’s on 100%. You can adjust it on your audio chain. It’s already bad enough "Direct Mode" is broken since macOS Sierra in my audio player. Software volume control would ruin the audio.
I don’t even have to set the volume to 100% on the Mac for my DAC. When I use it only for fun, for example, I watch something on youtube, the system (Mac) volume level simply has no effect. It gets ignored. 0% and 100% sounds the same. It has no effect on Ableton either. As soon as I open my audio player app, the volume control on the Mac gets disabled.
This is not a special driver. It’s the general audio driver from Apple. Everything related is at the default, I didn’t have to set it up this way. It’s how it is for a good reason. That’s why I believe most of the "pro" audio gear work the same way. Touch Bar gets useless for volume setting. And I’m only a hobbyist regarding the audio. Pro users likely have midi gear.
"Quickly enabling "Do Not Disturb"."
To enable Do Not Disturb I would need to disable it first. Why on earth would I ever do such thing? When I reinstall the macOS it’s one of the first things I enable for 7/24 since I usually use my computers for working. Unlike on the iPad, it’s working more or less fine on the macOS. If the Messages app is open, one still gets notified about the incoming messages. As soon as it’s closed there is no notification (thanks God).
(At least if it’s not in always on dock mode)
Autofocus is still an issue in do not disturb mode.
"Scrubbing through months/weeks/days in Fantastical."
I don’t have Fantastical but it looks like a calendar, doesn’t it?
In case I wouldn’t find the keyboard which I consider hard to imagine, but let me try (but then how could I find the Touch Bar?), a mouse still will be around. At least one. I have a Magic Trackpad and a Logitech G502 at my deskstop. It’s somehow hard to imagine how Touch Bar would replace the mouse either in Ableton Live or in LoL, and how it could replace the trackpad when I review code changes and I scroll both horizontally and vertically a lot.
I’m not saying no one can use the Touch Bar.
All I’m saying is the name of the specific computer has a word in it: "pro".
In case I ignore how much the light from the TB annoys me itself alone, I still can’t tell you a single thing I do with the computer for which the Touch Bar could be used. For most of the things I do it can’t be used at all. It’s not that it’s not the best for it. It’s not usable for it.
I also use the Terminal a lot, and when I need to scroll, I have to scroll a lot. I mean a lot. In the same time, scrolling has to be precise as I’m looking for a single line. I either use the keyboard because it won’t skip any line or the trackpad because it’s both fast and precise.
It’s true I usually work on the iMac, however, what I do on my MBP is the subset of these. The whole point would be buying a fully upgraded MBP and a 4k or 5k display so I could have the best of both "worlds".
I’m also not saying a "pro" computer could be sold only for "pros", anyway, I don’t consider myself a pro at least in the half of the above. What can a serious user buy now?
Yesterday I found myself reading reviews of the Dell Precision, then I asked myself if case it would work for me, how on earth could I sign in to websites related to money and finance from a Windows machine and still sleep well.
I recenly had to reinstall Windows 10 in a virtual machine simply because months ago I deleted a folder in the C:\Users\...\Temp, which couldn’t be perfectly fixed by reading VMWare Fusion support pages and articles for hours. It was in the Temp. That’s where Microsoft keeps information about the installed software. I just don’t get what the registry is for, in addition to make you buy new hard drive and memory or reinstall the OS once in a while.
I’m afraid to imagine how life would be if Windows 10 wouldn’t be the Guest but the Host OS on my machine.
On the other hand, if I would use the TB MBP as a desktop with an external display, at least I wouldn’t see the Touch Bar.
(But then why it is there at all?)
[doublepost=1489943807][/doublepost]
My guess is the TB MPB is selling well, however, it also has a high return rate. I have no information to confirm this. It’s what I think when I see the comments on various sites.
I believe Apple either has to completely remove the non-TB MBPs, (2015, 2016, and 2017), to prove they are right and TB is awesome. There won’t be a reason anymore to return it. All one could do would be switching to Windows/Linux machines.
Or, Apple will need to offer non-TB models of the 2017 MBPs that have the same performance upgrade options as the TB models have. As far as I understood this would be difficult since the TB chip is not only there to display the Nyan Cat but it’s also a part of the system. Offering the non-TB machines in a sane (upgradable) way would result in maintaining two MBP lines, if I got right what I read. I’m not sure. However, if it’s true, this might be bad news.
Upgradability, as used in this context (including the link you gave earlier), is the ability to upgrade after purchase. Soldered-on components aren't upgradable.
There is only one 2016 non-TB MBP, with various configurations. It has been discounted by Best Buy and many other sellers since it was introduced.
I don't follow your comments about the touch bar uses either. Some I just don't know what connection your comment has to what you're commenting on. Others clearly miss the point. For example:
That's not what scrubbing refers to in this context.
https://documentation.apple.com/en/...ual/index.html#chapter=8§ion=6&tasks=true
There are numerous pro commentaries on the usefulness of the touch bar if it's something that interests you. Google awaits.
There's still demand for non-dGPU 15" machines, and the easiest way to meet that demand is to continue to produce the 2015.
I didn’t know about the rule the last link I provide defines the context I’m fixed in until I insert a new link, however, the link I provided already used the "upgrade" in multiple contexts. For example, when he writes "Reasons for upgrading", I think he refers to buying a new computer.
Let me insert a new url, in which people who must be out of context like me use the "Max upgrades" the same way I would like to use from now until my next link.
https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/08/hands-on-late-2016-13-inch-macbook-pro-without-touch-bar-video/
I wish I would have followed the news Best Buy made their best buy ever so they purchased Apple. Now I understand why it’s not Apple’s but Best Buy’s website which defines what Apple computer has been discontinued and what was not. My only excuse is that our local Apple store also missed the same news.
That’s simply not how any of the work sessions I ever had myself (harmonic mixing) or watched on youtube (music producing) looked like.
So I should google to find new hobbies or activities to adjust myself to the Touch Bar. I never expected the computers rule humans *long before* AI gets invented.
I googled, however, for the scrubbing example above.
"Soundtrack Pro was a music composing and audio editing application made by Apple Inc."
Its linked manual is from 2009. That’s what I call a vision.
Anyway, if I would use a similar software, I could move my hand from the mouse to the Touch Bar, press the scrub button, then I could move back my hand to the mouse to select an audio region. That’s brilliant.
Wait, I forgot I could press the scrub button using my left hand, so I wouldn’t need to move my right hand to the Touch Bar. That’s great. Because the keyboard, on which my left hand would be, is way closer to the Touch Bar. What’s even closer would be the keyboard itself, which I didn’t have to look at all, because I know where the keys are, and customizable keystrokes have been already invented decades ago.
Besides, I don’t do this kind of audio editing. And even though I don’t, my audio softwares already scrubbed my music collection. It’s on an external (Samsung T3) drive and the analysis files are saved next to the music. The whole content is a copy, as I don’t work using original audio files, ever.
Even Mixed in Key seems to cache the waveform. (Not that I would need to see the wave inside Mixed in Key, it’s there already when I open any analyzed track. It’s likely stored the Library). I could also save and export the cue points and stuff but I like to decide myself. When I look at the waveform, I see the few cue points I might be interested in, I click on them, and it stars playing.
I don’t know if I ever, I mean, in the last 20 years, even a single time, I had to press a scrub button or similar for an audio file in any software I’ve ever used.
There’s still a demand for usable computers.
What’s interesting is that neither me nor probably anyone who doesn’t like the Touch Bar want to take it away from you or from anyone who likes it. I can’t talk in the name of others but I believe more or less everyone who didn’t like it wanted it to be an option.
I don’t get why is it a problem for certain people that I would like to buy a computer for myself that I can use? Am I preventing you from something?
This is silly. Your link doesn't even use the term upgradable. You can continue to use "fully upgradable" in whatever mysterious way you please, but no one else will understand you unless you provide an explanation.
The rest of your remarks are of no more use than that one. Carry on as you please.
Heh
Sometimes I'm so lost in lingo, that I forget these simple things. Indeed you're correct and there's multiple meanings of "to upgrade" when referring to computers:
1) to replace components of your existing computer -- this is extremely difficult or not even possible any longer with the latest models
2) to replace your complete computer, and buy a newer model
3) to make a decision to buy a more expensive version of a computer -- for example you're looking at a 15" MacBook Pro, but during the purchase process, decide to "upgrade" the storage to 1 TB
What’s not silly is asking instead of stating when one doesn’t understand what the other person wanted to say. You are just trying to find the next explanation why you didn’t get it. However, it’s mainly not your fault. It’s the situation what’s silly thanks to Apple.
(That’s not an excuse for the discontinued Best Buy Book Pro but I don’t mind)
When I wrote fully upgradeable, I intended to express the upgrades (customization options) for the TB version would be the same as for the the non-TB version.
Right now, you can buy a non-TB MBP, you can even "upgrade" it (select the non-default option before purchase), you can select better CPU, more RAM, larger SSD, but what you get is still low-end compared to what you get if you maximize the TB version. The 15 inch one.
I think no one wants to remove the Touch Bar from Earth. If you like it, enjoy it. I won’t. Many people wont.
I want the same pefrormance with a normal keyboard. That’s it.
It costs me money each day that I’m not using the fastest possible computer for my work. Which is not audio editing. Even though, time is money, no matter how it is wasted, on hobby or on profession, waiting for a computer is wasting your life.
I already considered ordering an Origin PC, and paying all the customs and taxes (I’m not living in the U.S.). It would cost more or less the double amount of a "fully upgraded" (maxed out) TB-MBP (if I would order that beast, it would have the best liquid cooling and SLI). However, it’s desktop-only. Besides, I still can’t imagine working on Windows. I don’t hate Windows, I bought it for a VM even though I don’t need it for my work, but spending $8k on running FreeBSD + KDE 4 inside a virtual machine under Windows 10 as my primary desktop and trying to find apps that can sync with Notes and Reminders is not really what I dream about. And I still wouldn’t have a new laptop at the end.
The Macbook is not user upgradeable. It’s "upgradeable" when you buy it.
I don’t consider any mac user-upgradeable. Yes, it’s possible, anything is possible, it’s possible to build it from scratch, you can build it using only hydrogen and nuclear fusion, but I will let others do such things. I mean others who don’t buy AppleCare.
The manner of your replies has been silly. It does matter what context words are used in. You shouldn't expect people to read your mind when you use words that usually mean one thing in a context to mean something else in that context. The main complaint about Apple MacBooks and MBPs not being upgradable, including at your link that led to this discussion, is not whether they have configuration options at purchase, since they always do. If you shift the meaning and want others to understand, you need to say so, not blame or scorn them for taking you to mean exactly what you appear to.
It was also indecipherable what you meant by "fully." It's extremely unlikely that Apple will ever offer the same configuration options for MacBooks as for MBPs. They aren't intended to do the same things.
It's fairly likely that the new MacBooks will have the butterfly keyboard, as the rMBs already do. They save space and most people like them.
The touch bar isn't the calamity you appear to think it is. If you haven't tried it, you should be a little less certain that it represents the Armageddon of Apple laptops.
Whether it's excusable that you've apparently confused "discounted" and "discontinued" I'll leave to you.