Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[Liat]

It does matter what context words are used in. You shouldn't expect people to read your mind when you use words that usually mean one thing in a context to mean something else in that context. The main complaint about Apple MacBooks and MBPs not being upgradable, including at your link that led to this discussion, is not whether they have configuration options at purchase, since they always do.

You might have recently learned the "context" word. It would explain why you have the urge to put it into every second sentence.

To help your journey I will provide you with another use of "context". The huge text on the top of the page is the title of the thread. It puts the replies and their links into a context. It’s amazing, isn’t it?

If you are trying to scroll up using your Touch Bar but it’s not working, I can tell you the title is not soldering your Mac but Touch Bar discussion. The linked page might cover various topics. The context here is the Touch Bar. That’s why I linked.

By the way, I admit I read the discounted wrong. I even wrote down the same word you did, then I "corrected" myself. I changed it to discontinued as it made more sense for me as an argument, but still, I haven’t noticed it until now. And now, in my goodwill, I’ve shown you how one admits their mistakes. See? It’s not that hard.

I can’t continue from this point. When I read you wrote Apple will not offer the same options for Macbook and Macbook Pro, I figured out you really aren’t trolling. This is somehow sad but it will get better over time.

Best Bye Bye

 

[Sanpete]

You might have recently learned the "context" word. It would explain why you have the urge to put it into every second sentence.

To help your journey I will provide you with another use of "context". The huge text on the top of the page is the title of the thread. It puts the replies and their links into a context. It’s amazing, isn’t it?

If you are trying to scroll up using your Touch Bar but it’s not working, I can tell you the title is not soldering your Mac but Touch Bar discussion. The linked page might cover various topics. The context here is the Touch Bar. That’s why I linked.

By the way, I admit I read the discounted wrong. I even wrote down the same word you did, then I "corrected" myself. I changed it to discontinued as it made more sense for me as an argument, but still, I haven’t noticed it until now. And now, in my goodwill, I’ve shown you how one admits their mistakes. See? It’s not that hard.

I can’t continue from this point. When I read you wrote Apple will not offer the same options for Macbook and Macbook Pro, I figured out you really aren’t trolling. This is somehow sad but it will get better over time.

Best Bye Bye

You can't continue once your faulty argument has been made clear, naturally. Your tone remains the same regardless, so no, you haven't learned anything yet.

 

[MDull]

Having a touchbar is 'great' from creating a new interactive display, but it creates additional stress and distractions for our brain. If Apple later on built in a multitouch screen into the large trackpad along with the touchbar, its great that you have 3 displays, and cool that the Macbook Pro has built in iPhone like functionality.. but consider the fact that now your brain and eyes have to constantly shift from the main screen, touchbar, to touch pad. You can't rely on your physical senses to know what you need to touch without stopping you from looking away.

Great on 'cool' factor, but not so hot on reducing distraction. If anything, it's just increasing the number of distractions and the amount of information your brain has to process. Versus just looking at what you want to do on one display, and touching one place directly.

[doublepost=1491052315][/doublepost]as with everything there is a learning curve, just like when you had to figure out where the short cuts were and look at them after a while they became second nature. Right now I am beginning to use it for photoshop and it's really cool but slow going as I have to look at the bar for many things. But I am more and more able to just look at what I am doing on screen and less and less at the TB. Stick with it I really love it. I just wish the would incorporate pencil tech into the giant touch pad like on the iPad Pro, then I could probably throw my Wacom Tablet in the closet and forget about it. It already is doing somethings I used to use the Wacom for.

 

[Liat]

I don’t get why isn’t the whole machine a touch display.

It is soldered. Ports are already removed, no one would notice having no more USB-C.

There should be one small hole, let’s say like a jack (headphone) port, it could charge it, it could be connected a huge collection of hubs, and the rest of the laptop would be one single display.

 

[profmjh]

Now that you've had your MacBook Pro 2016 for a few months, how is the touch bar working out for you? Is it a gimmick? Or an essential contributor to your workflow?

For me, I love the Touch ID, though often my Apple Watch beats me to it and logs me in. I like the volume slider.

But other than that . . . it's a vaguely pretty, vaguely distracting waste of space for me.

Any tips to help me make more use of it?

 

[Sanpete]

Now that you've had your MacBook Pro 2016 for a few months, how is the touch bar working out for you? Is it a gimmick? Or an essential contributor to your workflow?

For me, I love the Touch ID, though often my Apple Watch beats me to it and logs me in. I like the volume slider.

But other than that . . . it's a vaguely pretty, vaguely distracting waste of space for me.

Any tips to help me make more use of it?

I don't do much with it, but it is good for the occasional chuckle. Just now when I put my cursor after a link in TextEdit that ends with the_mac_pro_lives, it suggested the alternatives the_mac_pro_loves and the_mac_pro_lived. I haven't tried those links.

I think it's something people who are accustomed to a touchy swipey interface like and learn to make useful. Those of us who grew up without that may find it less appealing and invest less energy in making it useful. Besides the necessaries, I use it mainly to skip Youtube and other video ads.

 

[Dave245]

Do you guys think Apple will update or add features for the Touch Bar in the next MacOS when it's announced at WWDC?

 

[k20dub]

Do you guys think Apple will update or add features for the Touch Bar in the next MacOS when it's announced at WWDC?

I would bet so. Rumor came out yesterday that the next iMac might have the touch bar so I'm sure they will continue to integrate it better into their OS. At least, I'm hoping so since I just ordered one last night lol

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Do you guys think Apple will update or add features for the Touch Bar in the next MacOS when it's announced at WWDC?

Shuffle things around if needed like they did with the watch.

 

[iamnotme]

So I had a base line 2016 non-touch mbp and liked it for the most part but I have a new project at work that requires some more power so I sold the mbp and got a 2.7Ghz 15" with 1 tb HDD and the 455 gpu which I have 0 need for but..... So I really do like it much more than the 13" because of the power and size of the screen, although it feels about 20lbs heavier than the 13" while in my bag.

What I really want to say is that I don't feel the touch bar is a must have feature and I could never not have it again, but I really like it. I think it would be tremendously useful if they just made it an inch or 3cm" thick. I like the tab preview and using it for scrolling while in photos.

Just sayin.... It's nice, but I'm sure most would prefer to have physical buttons and a larger battery. I haven't really used it on the road yet, but I'm curious about what the battery life is going to be like when using it for just emails and documents which is what I do most while on the road.

 

[Dave245]

Shuffle things around if needed like they did with the watch.

It will be interesting to see if it gets a mention at WWDC.

 

[advancewarsbest]

Here are my thoughts of the touch bar so far:

Touch Bar location is poor. instead of removing FN keys, it should have been integrated/gone on top of the trackpad. Would have made more sense/easier to use.

Lack of ports sucks, labs at work are dongle eyes sores, what used to take 1-2 connectors, has been replaced with hubs and dongles. This is with the latest monitors we got to pair with these new Macs, very unfortunate. Can not connect to any conference room now, there was a brief period where dongles were no longer required to be carried around. one USB and/or HDMI would have gone a loooong way.

 

[thesaint024]

I am dumbfounded how much discussion there is around the touchbar. Yes, I get that certain applications use the f and escape keys frequently (coding is the only real example I've heard with the esc). Yeah it's flashy, but is there really any more to it than that? Until people start finding good uses for it (which people slowly are), why so much "controversy"? It replaces the rarely used function row (for most).

Function keys are rarely used relative to other keys (FOR MOST PEOPLE) - I just noticed that my external logitech keyboard has function keys half the size of regular keys. Seeing that, I now remember my older MBP has half sized function keys. If they were used as frequently as touchbar haters claim, they would be full sized keys like EVERY other row on the keyboard. I can go a day or days without hitting an function key once. I don't think I'm in the minority.

Jury is still out on touchbar functionality - At a minimum, it doesn't hurt anything. At best, it can increase productivity on certain applications. Why would anyone hate on this potential? It's customizable to your needs, why does that suck?

It doesn't take up any more space - You don't lose anything by adding it. I've heard suggestions like the one above to key f keys and put it somewhere else like above touchpad. That would come with the tradeoff of taking up space. In it's current state it simply replaces a rarely used row.

It doesn't cost as much as people are thinking - The touchbar itself probably added $100-$150 in price. The other pieces that you get with the touchbar MODEL likely make up the rest. Increased specs, ports. You are not paying $400 for just a touchbar. If you're buying a $2500 15" and complaining that you're paying $150 for a touchbar you don't want, you have a different perspective on money than me. IMO, $150 doesn't really mean much when you are spending $2500+ already. $2500+ is another story.

Again, aside from the relative few who use the function row frequently, who gives a f***? Why spend so much energy hating on an addition that is neutral at worst. Now a useful touchbar thread would be how people are finding productive uses for it and sharing. I am confused as hell as to why non-programmers would have any negative feelings, let alone strong ones. Yes, it's a change. Change is scary. But there are other changes on the MBP that potentially disrupt workflow more. These arguments for anything less than neutral (or the value of $150) are head scratchers.

 

[Sanpete]

I am dumbfounded how much discussion there is around the touchbar. Yes, I get that certain applications use the f and escape keys frequently (coding is the only real example I've heard with the esc). Yeah it's flashy, but is there really any more to it than that? Until people start finding good uses for it (which people slowly are), why so much "controversy"? It replaces the rarely used function row (for most).

Function keys are rarely used relative to other keys (FOR MOST PEOPLE) - I just noticed that my external logitech keyboard has function keys half the size of regular keys. Seeing that, I now remember my older MBP has half sized function keys. If they were used as frequently as touchbar haters claim, they would be full sized keys like EVERY other row on the keyboard. I can go a day or days without hitting an function key once. I don't think I'm in the minority.

Jury is still out on touchbar functionality - At a minimum, it doesn't hurt anything. At best, it can increase productivity on certain applications. Why would anyone hate on this potential? It's customizable to your needs, why does that suck?

It doesn't take up any more space - You don't lose anything by adding it. I've heard suggestions like the one above to key f keys and put it somewhere else like above touchpad. That would come with the tradeoff of taking up space. In it's current state it simply replaces a rarely used row.

It doesn't cost as much as people are thinking - The touchbar itself probably added $100-$150 in price. The other pieces that you get with the touchbar MODEL likely make up the rest. Increased specs, ports. You are not paying $400 for just a touchbar. If you're buying a $2500 15" and complaining that you're paying $150 for a touchbar you don't want, you have a different perspective on money than me. IMO, $150 doesn't really mean much when you are spending $2500+ already. $2500+ is another story.

Again, aside from the relative few who use the function row frequently, who gives a f***? Why spend so much energy hating on an addition that is neutral at worst. Now a useful touchbar thread would be how people are finding productive uses for it and sharing. I am confused as hell as to why non-programmers would have any negative feelings, let alone strong ones. Yes, it's a change. Change is scary. But there are other changes on the MBP that potentially disrupt workflow more. These arguments for anything less than neutral (or the value of $150) are head scratchers.

I agree that these are small things, but there are some drawbacks. When the TB goes to sleep, it often takes two touches to do what one used to do. There are people who say they're such good touch typists that they can use the function keys without looking, but that they can't do the same with the TB. It does freeze sometimes (not for me recently), which can stop work entirely until it unfreezes. It's a lot more sensitive than a physical button, so false inputs are more common. All that and whatever else might be working badly for some has to be weighed against the advantages.

Someone suggested a physical escape key at the left end to match the Touch ID/power button on the right. That seems like a good idea, if it's practical to engineer. Allowing adjustment of sensitivity and more customization would also help if possible.

 

[thesaint024]

I agree that these are small things, but there are some drawbacks. When the TB goes to sleep, it often takes two touches to do what one used to do. There are people who say they're such good touch typists that they can use the function keys without looking, but that they can't do the same with the TB. It does freeze sometimes (not for me recently), which can stop work entirely until it unfreezes. It's a lot more sensitive than a physical button, so false inputs are more common. All that and whatever else might be working badly for some has to be weighed against the advantages.

Someone suggested a physical escape key at the left end to match the Touch ID/power button on the right. That seems like a good idea, if it's practical to engineer. Allowing adjustment of sensitivity and more customization would also help if possible.

Fair enough. If they put in a physical escape key, great! Adding a physical escape key or even function keys wouldn't affect me materially, as I imagine it wouldn't for most users. My point was I go day or days without ever hitting one of those keys so I didn't get the all out hate from some. Of course, usage varies, but I didn't think I was in a minority. Like all conclusions from my experience or my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[JMacHack]

The more I use the touchbar, the more I like it. Apple not having something like Better Touch Tool as standard is criminal though, at least give your users options for their new toy. The more I play with it the more I find it optimizes my workflow, it really does have potential.

I guess it's just one of those things (the function keys) you don't realize how little you use them until they're gone, I've found the same with USB-A.

Overall the touch bar is gimmicky, and obviously since there's so much negative reaction to it by many people it's not for everybody, but it doesn't really make-or-break the laptop.

 

[Liat]

The more I use the touchbar, the more I like it. Apple not having something like Better Touch Tool as standard is criminal though, at least give your users options for their new toy. The more I play with it the more I find it optimizes my workflow, it really does have potential.

When I went to the Apple store for the tenth time to decide what I should do, there was a moment I noticed on myself I wanted to use it.

During the last few months I also checked out every PC laptop I could see. The Yoga looked good but I read bad things about it, mainly the fan noise, and that’s something I expect from a PC laptop.

At the end, I bought a maxed out 13inch with the TB.

Reasons:

* Faster memory
* Faster CPU
* Faster Wifi
* 4 USB ports
* Touch ID
* I figured it out I can turn of the TB except the ESC
* I could imagine maybe I could use the TB

For the first five reasons the non-TB one was not an option.

I believe the TB is not disturbing for me when I’m not working. For example, I wanted to see what I can do with it in Ableton Live (nothing, it’s not yet supported).

I ended up with the following:

* Keyboard lights turned off as always
* Touch Bar is set to Control strip only
* I removed everything from the Control strip
* I’m still celebrating there is no LED on the charger cable. This makes the otherwise terrible removal of the MagSafe a good compromise for me

All I can see now is the ESC. It disturbs me though. I might end up with using some app that turns off the light. I can remember where it is.

It’s hard for me to imagine how anyone would accidently press the ESC. Ever. I mean "pro"s who can type.

During my normal workflow, pressing Fn for the function keys is acceptable. However, I will reconfigure the shortcuts.

In certain cases, the touch version of the function keys are way too slow. (Midnight Commander, reviewing many files). I connected a wireless keyboard once only for the F keys.

I love the Macbook Pro so much. It’s sexy, it’s fast, and it’s light.

People who complain about the Kaby Lake have little idea about the current CPUs. It seems Apple chose the right CPU-s considering the options even now.

What could be improved:

* When I read "no one needs 32GiB RAM" I believe it’s a prank. One of the reasons I didn’t go for the 15inch MBP is the time when I could use the 4 cores for my work I would run out of memory. (And that’s without using PS, any kind of movie rendering, or any VMs)
* The screen is yellow like all new Apple screens. However, I managed to get a homogeneous one I’m happy with

I had doubts about the butterfly keyboard. After two days, while it still feels strange, I already like it. Even though I have a mechanical keyboard for the desktop.

It’s a wonderful computer.

I believe Apple has to fix two things for the next release:

1. Put the TB not the place of the F keys but above them. Make the TB totally toggleable (including ESC). Turning on TB for a selection of the Apps should be easy. Maybe the best would be something similar we have in the Keyboard / Shortcuts / Function keys now, but also for the "App menu". One could have the TB for one or two apps and not be bothered with the rest of the time.

2. 32GiB RAM, Hello!


PS: Did I mention? I love the machine

 

[8692574]

Touchbar desperatly needs haptic feedback, and sounds... it is wierd to touch it without having any sort of feedback...did i touch it? did i miss it?

Other than that it is definetly NOT the reason to buy the computer, but it has its merits.

 

[The Game 161]

Touchbar desperatly needs haptic feedback, and sounds... it is wierd to touch it without having any sort of feedback...did i touch it? did i miss it?

Other than that it is definetly NOT the reason to buy the computer, but it has its merits.

I don't think people should buy it just for the touchbar but me an added bonus i guess. Hopefully apple improve it over time

 

[MBX]

I'm so glad I got the non touch bar version. I love this thing, so compact and beautiful as well as the keyboard. The Touch Bar is really a gimmick for now. And too buggy.

I heard Apple is thinking about more non touch bar options in future which could mean possibly a high end 15'' MBP non touch bar version. Would love to see it.

 

[iRabbit]

I'm obviously in the minority, but I use the touch bar all the time and I haven't even had the computer that long. I'm "old folk" trained in the ways of typing without looking at the keyboard, and I don't find looking at the touch bar unnatural in any way. I appreciate the auto suggestions for words, especially if I'm hesitant in spelling something. The smilies are fun.

More importantly, the additional interface options are great. I use the touch bar exclusively to switch tabs on the browser... to scrub through video... for photoshop shortcuts, and even for opening tabs, applications, etc. Though I will say, BetterTouchTool should be bought by Apple for a lot of money and added as standard.

 

[NiCk-]

After five months of using the 13'' tbMBP I can say that the touch bar is definitely a better addition than a row of FN keys .. Top 5 things that I like about it :

1) Changing the volume/brightness : Much more pleasing than pressing one button 5-6 times to reach the desired level.

2) Customization: I've put spotlight where SIRI used to be and I found out that I've been using it a lot more than what I used to in my previous 2012 rMBP. I knew the keyboard shortcut but strangely I didn't use it all that much. On the other hand that magnifying glass icon on the touch bar just begs to be pressed ! I assume that other people have found other things that they use more by customizing their touch bar and I only hope that in the future we'll get even more options !

3) Controlling media: Whether it is a video, a song or a collection of pictures, moving that cursor left or right to choose a picture or to find the right spot in a video/song is one of the coolest things that the touch bar can do !

4) Microsoft Office: I mainly use Word rather than Pages and I really like what Microsoft has done with the touchbar. I still use keyboard shortcuts for bold/italics/underline but having the ability to change the font colour/highlight or simply create a bullet list from a touchbar is a very welcome addition and has improved my workflow.

5) Background apps: This is probably my favourite one. I just love it when I'm typing a Word document and I'm able through the touch bar to pause/play a Spotify/iTunes song or just move to the next/previous song without changing a single thing on the screen. I used to have an application called "Sizzling Keys" to do that thing for me by using keyboard shortcuts but ever since I got my new Mac I've deleted and I use the touchbar instead.

So here it is. Is it a gimmick ? Well it won't change the world like the mouse or the click wheel or the touch screen did. It's much closer to what the Force Touch is for the iPhone 6s I guess. It improved my productivity by making some things faster and others more convenient but most importantly it has done so in a very pleasing and intuitive way.

Should you buy a Mac with it ? That is up to you, but personally I wouldn't want one without it

 

[fokmik]

i think for a user that work on full screen, the touchbar is a must, you can have a lot for FCP and others without the need to go window mode...so working on laptop for me is becoming a must, but working when im at home with an external monitor becomes a useless thing since the laptop is close and out of reach,Apple needs an external touchbar keyboard accessory

 

[iRabbit]

i think for a user that work on full screen, the touchbar is a must, you can have a lot for FCP and others without the need to go window mode...so working on laptop for me is becoming a must, but working when im at home with an external monitor becomes a useless thing since the laptop is close and out of reach,Apple needs an external touchbar keyboard accessory

I'm waiting for the announcement that we can buy Mac keyboards with a touch bar...

 

[doitdada]

Function keys are rarely used relative to other keys (FOR MOST PEOPLE)

If they are rarely used, why put a bunch of new buttons in the same place and expect them to be used more?

I'm waiting for the announcement that we can buy Mac keyboards with a touch bar...

Would rather have a trackpad with a touch bar than a keyboard.

i think for a user that work on full screen, the touchbar is a must, you can have a lot for FCP...

Final Cut and Logic may be the only use cases, and the only apps left in the Apple software portfolio that gets "Pro" attention, but how many hardware purchases are made due to dependency on those apps?

I'm obviously in the minority, but I use the touch bar all the time and I haven't even had the computer that long. I'm "old folk" trained in the ways of typing without looking at the keyboard, and I don't find looking at the touch bar unnatural in any way. I appreciate the auto suggestions for words, especially if I'm hesitant in spelling something. The smilies are fun.

I am open for new ideas, I could even switch to Windows and Android, if the opportunity came along, but right now the best laptop experience is on a MacBook 12". Light, small and fast enough...and no touch bar.