Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[sgript]

I think it's going to be a lot like the first iOS and the Watch OS. Buggy, with slow, tightly controller progress.

iOS took off in a huge way, Watch OS no. Which tells us nothing, except that they have done this before, which is a very good thing,

I think we're essentially comparing a hardware extension of macOS to iOS/WatchOS here, I very much doubt it will face the same issues aside from minor bugs, in comparison, that can be fixed through software updates. There were fundamental flaws in the OS for the watches when it was released, making it very sluggish.

 

[Macalway]

I think we're essentially comparing a hardware extension of macOS to iOS/WatchOS here, I very much doubt it will face the same issues aside from minor bugs, in comparison, that can be fixed through software updates. There were fundamental flaws in the OS for the watches when it was released, making it very sluggish.

Keep our fingers crossed it isn't sluggish. As long as it's quick, we're good (I think).

It's very interesting isn't it This forum is going to be wild for a while

 

[fokmik]

many people say you need to look at the tiny screen, but it's not the case as Apple design guidance says Use the Touch Bar as an extension of the keyboard and trackpad, not as a display.

yes i think when you get use to it, you no longer need to look to know

 

[Mythos99]

yes i think when you get use to it, you no longer need to look to know

How exactly will you get used to it, if the bar changes with every program you use, and you can't feel a difference between buttons with your finger?

I can't see myself ever not not looking on the bar when i press something, it the same as with the keyboard on the smartphone, eventhough you know where all the letter are, you still have to look at it. Maybe a second gen will have some sort of feedback, but for now it's just a screen.

 

[Ash9414]

That, I get, although I would have preferred if they had put an icon on the touchID sensor, and then made the Touch Bar go all the way to the left.

With that said, it would still be smart if they make the black area to the left of ESC count as part of the ESC button, just like they make the black area to the left of the apple menu count as a click on the apple menu. You know, Fitt's Law and all for those of us who have decades of muscle memory for ESC being at the top right of the keyboard.

Looks like the black area to the left of the Touch Bar will also count as the Esc key. Check out this video @ 1:25.

 

[Macalway]

How exactly will you get used to it, if the bar changes with every program you use, and you can't feel a difference between buttons with your finger?

I can't see myself ever not not looking on the bar when i press something, it the same as with the keyboard on the smartphone, eventhough you know where all the letter are, you still have to look at it. Maybe a second gen will have some sort of feedback, but for now it's just a screen.

If I was reliant on that row i'd be very concerned. But they do have a version without it (at least)

 

[jjiangweilan]

How exactly will you get used to it, if the bar changes with every program you use, and you can't feel a difference between buttons with your finger?

I can't see myself ever not looking on the bar when i press something, it the same as with the keyboard on the smartphone, even though you know where all the letter are, you still have to look at it. Maybe a second gen will have some sort of feedback, but for now it's just a screen.

When you think with your eyes you think it's a touch "screen", when you think with you fingers it becomes keys. That's why you think this touch bar is a gimmick.

 

[fokmik]

 

[x-evil-x]

anybody know if you'll be able to move the whole dock to the touch bar? say if you're in full screen safari or something

 

[fokmik]

anybody know if you'll be able to move the whole dock to the touch bar? say if you're in full screen safari or something

i dont think so since you have the trackpad and you can summon the dock while fullscreen

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

One thing that would be utterly fantastic for me would be predictive text in Word. I'm not native English, but write a lot in English for my job, and I cant always remember or know how to spell the more advanced words in English, but I usually know how their spelling starts.

I use the predictive text on my iPad Pro with keyboard all the time for this, and it is a great time saver. It takes a lot longer to write out a word, select it, right click, and then choose the correct spelling.

Welcome to 2016, I say!

 

[Ma2k5]

One thing that would be utterly fantastic for me would be predictive text in Word. I'm not native English, but write a lot in English for my job, and I cant always remember or know how to spell the more advanced words in English, but I usually know how their spelling starts.

I use the predictive text on my iPad Pro with keyboard all the time for this, and it is a great time saver. It takes a lot longer to write out a word, select it, right click, and then choose the correct spelling.

Welcome to 2016, I say!

I don't know how useful predictive text will be due to

a) most people touch type and would prefer not to have to look down
b) spelling correction/suggestions are usually available on screen, be it email clients, browsers or word processors

 

[ascender]

One of the things I see a lot from "pro" users (or nerds as I like affectionately refer to us) is that its very common to work with their laptop in clamshell mode when at their desk and they have their MBP hooked up to a nice big monitor. I know that's true for a lot of people I work with and so without an external keyboard with the touchbar on it, I'm not sure how much it will get used unless we change the way we work.

Its a really interesting concept and looked better in the demo than I thought it would from reading about it.

I think a touchID button is long overdue though both from a point of view of unlocking devices and also the UI inconsistencies where keychain doesn't integrate with things like iTunes.

 

[zokstar]

Looks like the black area to the left of the Touch Bar will also count as the Esc key. Check out this video @ 1:25.

That's pretty cool! First time seeing that video!

 

[teidon]

One thing that would be utterly fantastic for me would be predictive text in Word.

Predictive text is available when ever you type text to any kind of text field.

 

[IndigoDesign]

Is it just me, or does the touchbar seem to make no sense when it comes to actual usability?

When you use any laptop, your focus is on the screen. When you have a touchscreen, you can see what you want to touch, and touch it directly.

When you've got keys on a keyboard, you know where you expect things, you can feel for them (being physical keys and having muscle memory), and hit "F8" without distracting your focus on the screen.

When you've got the touchbar.... you effectively have a 2nd screen that you HAVE to look at to know where your touching and what your doing, so to compose an email for example, if you want to use the touch bar, the focus of your eyes has to go from the screen, to the touchbar, find the 'compose' button, touch the 'compose' button for example, and then look back at the screen.

When you have a touchscreen so that you just look at the 'compose' button on the screen and touch the 'compose' button. Your focus is where your content and interface is at.

Is Apple really getting at an intuitive interface with the touchbar? Or is it really creating a distraction by avoiding putting in a built in touchscreen?

I totally share your opinion.
I'm a professional Layouter and I use my muscle-memory-shortcuts on the keyboard. No need to look down, especially since when at home I have my Laptop running in clamshell mode. Closed. No use for that gimicky hipster-bar. Also the DJing Demo AS WELL as the Photoshop Demo were both ridiculous. Why not leave the function keys alone and offer this touchbar as a bigger screen, a dongle, that you can attach and program with app specific shortcuts and controls. THAT would be useful.
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A status bar would have been more useful.

Watching the keynote I couldn't help but think that this 'bar' is a pointless piece of hardware. Using the bar to straighten photographs, trim clips in FCPX, select an emotion, clicking Safari bookmarks etc all of these can be done without removing your hands away from the keyboard/trackpad.

What would have been better is a Status Bar (unless the touch bar already offers this)

So, it would be cool if the bar showed statues of apps running in the backgrounds.

• Safari Download progress
• Which email account has received a message
• Reminders
• Media import progress

and so on.

Just an idea..

Good ideas.
Still pointless.
I hope this abomination-bar disappears in the next iteration of the MBP. 2019...
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Do you look at the keyboard on your iPhone when you type? I don't, muscle memory.

But does your keyboard on your phone change with the app you're in? nope? See!
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Ergonoically, I think its questionable as you need to reach for the bar and focus your attention there.

In terms of usage, it seems novel, but I'm not sure how useful it will be if you use a mouse.

Heaven help you if you hook up your MBP to a monitor and external keyboard and if someone is doing serious photoshop work for 8 hours a day, wouldn't they be doing that on a larger monitor (and I guess external keyboard/mouse)?

THANK YOU! Some sense right there!

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

inc

Predictive text is available when ever you type text to any kind of text field.

Hmmm, I talking about writing sentences in Word/Pages, but since I have been on Windows the last two years, Predictive text might be more widespread in MacOS now? Anyway, I don't think I have it now in Word for Windows and would welcome it to the Touch Bar.

 

[IndigoDesign]

If you've got a dozen or more tabs it's easier to scroll thru the TouchBar and find the one you want then ctrl+tab or using the TouchPad.

That's a very isolated use-case scenario don't you think? Does something like this warrant actual hardware like the touchbar?

 

[maflynn]

If you've got a dozen or more tabs it's easier to scroll thru the TouchBar and find the one you want then ctrl+tab or using the TouchPad.

What about a mouse, wouldn't that be easier?

 

[IndigoDesign]

It was mentioned in the keynote that one of the idea of the touch bar is to bring up features of the app that was hidden in the menus. It's akin to Microsoft's ribbon bar. The issue with the ribbon bar is that it takes up screen space. The touch bar allows the same approach outside the screen, while keeping the interface interactive.

Many people out there, including pros, are not necessarily keyboard warriors memorizing shortcuts and doing things via command lines. Personally I want the touch bar in all Macs, and even bigger. Having thumbnails and slider controls on it while I do things in Lightroom or FCPX would be more intuitive than trying to drag a slider with a mouse.

Ribbon bar or touch bar. Both cluttered useless interfaces in my opinion. Everyone of us can touch-type right? You learn it in school at least last time I checked. I still see SOME use to a broader touchbar attached as a dongle, a peripheral, with slider controls and configurable input for your favourite, most used apps. No need to annoy your whole bunch of customers with that hardware only a small fraction of them will use, if even.

Adding something that removes your focus from the screen and makes you look down on the keyboard is just backwards.
All opinions only of course.
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inc


Hmmm, I talking about writing sentences in Word/Pages, but since I have been on Windows the last two years, Predictive text might be more widespread in MacOS now? Anyway, I don't think I have it now in Word for Windows and would welcome it to the Touch Bar.

No offense here but predictive text? Really? Isn't it better to just... you know... be confident and well versed in the language you're typing?

 

[teidon]

inc


Hmmm, I talking about writing sentences in Word/Pages, but since I have been on Windows the last two years, Predictive text might be more widespread in MacOS now? Anyway, I don't think I have it now in Word for Windows and would welcome it to the Touch Bar.

I weren't clear but I meant that Touch Bar has similar predictive text bar as there is in iOS keyboard. When ever any kind of text field is focused a button appears to the Touch Bar which will expand to the predictive text bar. And some apps might of course have the predictive text bar visible by default.

 

[Macintosh IIcx]

I weren't clear but I meant that Touch Bar has similar predictive text bar as there is in iOS keyboard. When ever any kind of text field is focused a button appears to the Touch Bar which will expand to the predictive text bar. And some apps might of course have the predictive text bar visible by default.

Aaah, got you. Thanks!

 

[kattskrall]

Here's an example that immediately comes to mind that we can all benefit from:

You're in your browser of choice with multiple tabs open. Reading/interacting with the active tab, you want to jump over to another tab.

Meh, just ctlr+tab bro. shift+ctrl+tab to go reverse.

These use cases are not for pro users, they're for moms.

 

[Queen6]

Would seem others also looked at the concept of a Touch Bar some time ago, equally they have not brought anything to market if ever at all...

Q-6

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Thanks for the interesting link, Queen6.
And it was in 2010...
No comment.