Touch Bar discussion [merged]

[villicodelirant]

Still don't get it. What's the profit for a taptic engine integration?
And as you can see, the positions of the touchbar buttons switch all the time, so the area where you click wont be responsive but the whole touchbar.
That's my point. If you are a smartphone user, you dont get a response from your screen and nobody missed it.

To be honest I always set all my phones to vibrate when tapping the on-screen keyboard.

It feels super weird not to.

 

[phloo]

You are probably one out of 10,000 or more
So, just asking, you get a physical reaction: do you still control what you typed/activated with your eyes?

 

[Dydegu]

My biggest question still is, why didn't Apple use the haptic engine for the touchbars? That way you can simulate a click and still integrate the same software features.

You could then question why every tap on an iPhone or iPad (especially the keyboard) doesn't use haptic feedback. Because you don't need it. The Touch Bar is meant to be looked at and engaged with. Remember, it's an additive touch screen first, and a replacement for physical keys second.

I thought they were going to use 3D Touch for it, which I think would be useful, but I'm not so sure anymore. I don't think they wanted to over complicate it.

 

[frankgrimes]

You could then question why every tap on an iPhone or iPad (especially the keyboard) doesn't use haptic feedback. Because you don't need it. The Touch Bar is meant to be looked at and engaged with. Remember, it's an additive touch screen first, and a replacement for physical keys second.

I thought they were going to use 3D Touch for it, which I think would be useful, but I'm not so sure anymore. I don't think they wanted to over complicate it.

Ya well it's still a notebook so not a touch sensitive phone. I think the touchbar should give some sort of feedback, or else how do you know if you "clicked" the right button?

 

[Donoban]

When you've got 30+ tabs it's not efficient to tab through them all.

30 plus tabs of..... pr0n? Lolz. That's impressive brah.

 

[shareef777]

30 plus tabs of..... pr0n? Lolz. That's impressive brah.

I am a professional after all ;-)

 

[phloo]

Ya well it's still a notebook so not a touch sensitive phone. I think the touchbar should give some sort of feedback, or else how do you know if you "clicked" the right button?

The buttons execute the action, you will notice if it's the one of your choice.
It's not a keyboard.

 

[simonmet]

I can feel and accurately type the Escape key as well as volume and brightness keys on the existing physical keys, but for anything else I have to look at them.

I'm willing to reserve judgement until I see and play with it.

 

[fs454]

You could then question why every tap on an iPhone or iPad (especially the keyboard) doesn't use haptic feedback. Because you don't need it. The Touch Bar is meant to be looked at and engaged with. Remember, it's an additive touch screen first, and a replacement for physical keys second.

I thought they were going to use 3D Touch for it, which I think would be useful, but I'm not so sure anymore. I don't think they wanted to over complicate it.

I'm pretty sure it has force / 3D Touch capability. They mentioned that it can tell how hard you press in the keynote.

 

[cmaier]

To be honest I always set all my phones to vibrate when tapping the on-screen keyboard.

It feels super weird not to.

But I'm sure you use tons of buttons and sliders without feedback.

 

[mbpmo]

If I was using the bar without the screen tilted way back either my index finger or middle, ring and pinky would always be bumping into the screen and scraping it or gouging with my finger nails or knuckles, because you have to move the rest of your fingers out of the way to see what/where you are touching it. It looks like it is best used standing.

If they wanted to make the touch bar ergonomic and useful they shouldn't have put it where the function keys are, they should have put it between the track pad and the first row so you don't have to lift/hold your arms or hands up in the air to use it, but if they had done that, people would have said well why didn't you just add the same features to the track pad. Total waste and dangerous to my display with the bar up by the screen with my hands.

 

[cmaier]

If I was using the bar without the screen tilted way back either my index finger or middle, ring and pinky would always be bumping into the screen and scraping it or gouging with my finger nails or knuckles, because you have to move the rest of your fingers out of the way to see what/where you are touching it. It looks like it is best used standing.

That's funny, because it goes exactly where the F-keys are, and when I type on my computer and need to type on the F-keys, and if I want to see which keys I hit, I seem to be able to do so very easily without my hand touching the screen. Hand doesn't even come close.

 

[BarracksSi]

What's even funnier is that nobody here has been able to try one yet.

Right?

 

[fokmik]

Yes but still based on the comparison, apple maded the perfect choice not going with touscreen dell,razer lag as hell(except if you use edge browser for pdf). Touchbar+trackpad are still the future for touch inputs

 

[cmaier]

What's even funnier is that nobody here has been able to try one yet.

Right?

Exactly. But they can tell that it is a poor design that will immediately inflict carpal tunnel syndrome and result in greasy scratched up screens from when their finger jewelry bumps into them.

 

[Wowereit]

The reason I ask is because all the tech reviewers who have used it say it's great and is a vast improvement.

I've lost any trust in most tech reviewers years ago.
How many of them will give a negative review, knowing that this would be the end of free stuff, early access and invitations?

 

[nstz]

Reviews are out:

MacBook Pro with Touch Bar review
Hands-on with Apple's new Macbook Pro Touch Bar | Ars Technica
Apple MacBook Pro with Touch Bar review
WIRED Review: The New Macbook Pro With Touch Bar
MacBook Pro 2016 with Touch Bar review: The love/hate future of laptops
Apple MacBook Pro with Touch Bar Review (late-2016)

 

[giggles]

Since the wording in Ars review is weird about linux support (sounds like he didn't actually tried it), are we positive that under linux the touchbar is just a dead black bar? Any reviewer tried it?

 

[negatv1]

At this moment (about 3 hours after unboxing, and migrating previous machine data to it), I am not an instant fan of the touch bar.

Years of knowing the precisely where brightness (both screen and keyboard), volume, and later on with the addition of the Mission Control key mappings are now lost.

Perhaps I fidget with these more than I should, but nonetheless. Now, its a matter of expanding the half sized arrow control next to the brightness slider button/toggle, to reveal all of the old favorites (and no apparent way to keep this bar open, overriding any application specific functions if you dont care to see them).

But, I can see this changing. Open up Photos app Lots of functionality there. Finder, can add lots of commonly used functionality. Chrome... well, it's a third party app - so nothing here just yet. Would be nice to have so generic options to be shows when the app has no support for the bar.

Took me all of 10 minutes to get used to the keyboard. I might actually prefer it in time. Very flat. Kind of pleasing crunchy sound of the keys bottoming out when I'm typing quickly. Similar to the motivation the mechanical keyboard gives you, without the travel of course.

So, with that said. The return clock has started. I have a perfectly good 2015 Macbook Pro if it doesn't work out.

 

[Abaganov]

At this moment (about 3 hours after unboxing, and migrating previous machine data to it), I am an instant fan of the touch bar.

Years of knowing the precisely where brightness (both screen and keyboard), volume, and later on with the addition of the Mission Control key mappings are now lost.

Perhaps I fidget with these more than I should, but nonetheless. Now, its a matter of expanding the half sized arrow control next to the brightness slider button/toggle, to reveal all of the old favorites (and no apparent way to keep this bar open, overriding any application specific functions if you dont care to see them).

But, I can see this changing. Open up Photos app Lots of functionality there. Finder, can add lots of commonly used functionality. Chrome... well, it's a third party app - so nothing here just yet. Would be nice to have so generic options to be shows when the app has no support for the bar.

Took me all of 10 minutes to get used to the keyboard. I might actually prefer it in time. Very flat. Kind of pleasing crunchy sound of the keys bottoming out when I'm typing quickly. Similar to the motivation the mechanical keyboard gives you, without the travel of course.

So, with that said. The return clock has started. I have a perfectly good 2015 Macbook Pro if it doesn't work out.

Just to be clear , when you say you are "instant fan of the touch bar" are you being cynical ?

 

[negatv1]

Just to be clear , when you say you are "instant fan of the touch bar" are you being cynical ?

To clarify what i meant (I did mistakenly leave out the "not" in my original post, which certainly did sound cynical)-

Out of the box I was not instantly sold that the touch bar is something I will be able to get used to. Immediately, I missed my standard function keys. Thinking that this is different, and not in a good way.

After years and years of the function/media buttons generally in the same place which I use fairly regularly, the change is annoying. At first.

Now after a few hours into using the machine, I can see the touch bar becoming much more useful.

 

[mattopotamus]

To clarify what i meant (I did mistakenly leave out the "not" in my original post, which certainly did sound cynical)-

Out of the box I was not instantly sold that the touch bar is something I will be able to get used to. Immediately, I missed my standard function keys. Thinking that this is different, and not in a good way.

After years and years of the function/media buttons generally in the same place which I use fairly regularly, the change is annoying. At first.

Now after a few hours into using the machine, I can see the touch bar becoming much more useful.

Do you find yourself unnecessarily looking for a reason to use it? In other words, are you using it just to use it at this point or do you think it will actually increase productivity?

 

[specik]

A status bar would have been more useful.

Watching the keynote I couldn't help but think that this 'bar' is a pointless piece of hardware. Using the bar to straighten photographs, trim clips in FCPX, select an emotion, clicking Safari bookmarks etc all of these can be done without removing your hands away from the keyboard/trackpad.

What would have been better is a Status Bar (unless the touch bar already offers this)

So, it would be cool if the bar showed statues of apps running in the backgrounds.

• Safari Download progress
• Which email account has received a message
• Reminders
• Media import progress

and so on.

Just an idea..

Apple's user interface guidelines for the Touchbar explicitly prohibit this exact use case:

Use the Touch Bar as an extension of the keyboard and trackpad, not as a display. Although technically it’s a screen, the Touch Bar functions as an input device, not a secondary display. The user may glance at the Touch Bar to locate or use a control, but their primary focus is the main screen. The Touch Bar shouldn’t display alerts, messages, scrolling content, static content, or anything else that commands the user’s attention or distracts from their work on the main screen.
​

They don't want it to distract you away from the main screen, although it already does...

 

[Ataricade]

At this moment (about 3 hours after unboxing, and migrating previous machine data to it), I am not an instant fan of the touch bar.

Years of knowing the precisely where brightness (both screen and keyboard), volume, and later on with the addition of the Mission Control key mappings are now lost.

Perhaps I fidget with these more than I should, but nonetheless. Now, its a matter of expanding the half sized arrow control next to the brightness slider button/toggle, to reveal all of the old favorites (and no apparent way to keep this bar open, overriding any application specific functions if you dont care to see them).

But, I can see this changing. Open up Photos app Lots of functionality there. Finder, can add lots of commonly used functionality. Chrome... well, it's a third party app - so nothing here just yet. Would be nice to have so generic options to be shows when the app has no support for the bar.

Took me all of 10 minutes to get used to the keyboard. I might actually prefer it in time. Very flat. Kind of pleasing crunchy sound of the keys bottoming out when I'm typing quickly. Similar to the motivation the mechanical keyboard gives you, without the travel of course.

So, with that said. The return clock has started. I have a perfectly good 2015 Macbook Pro if it doesn't work out.

You can lock open the controls its been mentioned in reviews. check your TB settings

 

[Macalway]

I'm going to probably get the touchbar one. It's just a gamble, and at least, very interesting.