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ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
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yes I understand all that. But obviously any person who rely on their computer to work with specific softwares would wait at least a few months for the major kinks to be ironed out; and make thorough research about what works and what doesn't. As for the plug-ins; it could take very long for them to be adapted; and I don't see an ecosystem with a mix and match of native/emulated plug-ins/apps working well if at all. Personnaly I use max/msp and ableton live in conjonction; plus multiple third-party plugin; and all of those have to be updated to work together; and I know for a fact at least one I rely heavily on will never be. I don't even know about the drivers of the many pieces of hardware I use. I don't even know about firewire compatibility if there is any. I suspect many people are in the same cases. Your mileage may vary but for me it won't even be an option for a very long time.
I agree with you that anyone using a Mac to get paid work done should either carefully research the software they need before switching or keep an Intel Mac around just in case. For most people with an Intel Mac from the last couple of years I don't see why they would need to buy an AS Mac on Day One. There are some people who probably should though such as software developers targeting the Mac Platform or planning to offer their iOS apps to AS Mac users.
Anyone using only Apple applications can be fairly confident that they will work too.

Others should perhaps be more cautious though I do have a lot of confidence in the Microsoft Office team. Adobe I have less confidence in.
 

polaris20

macrumors 68030
Jul 13, 2008
2,513
790
I agree with you that anyone using a Mac to get paid work done should either carefully research the software they need before switching or keep an Intel Mac around just in case. For most people with an Intel Mac from the last couple of years I don't see why they would need to buy an AS Mac on Day One. There are some people who probably should though such as software developers targeting the Mac Platform or planning to offer their iOS apps to AS Mac users.
Anyone using only Apple applications can be fairly confident that they will work too.

Others should perhaps be more cautious though I do have a lot of confidence in the Microsoft Office team. Adobe I have less confidence in.
I agree. There’s no reason to jump ship if your computer is 2-4 years old. But mine’s going on 7 years old, so it’s time. And I’m a FCP/Logic user, as well as BBEdit and Pixelmator Pro, both of which just got released as Universal as well.
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
1,689
1,059
I agree. There’s no reason to jump ship if your computer is 2-4 years old. But mine’s going on 7 years old, so it’s time. And I’m a FCP/Logic user, as well as BBEdit and Pixelmator Pro, both of which just got released as Universal as well.
I have a lot of confidence in the Pixelmator team too (and Serif Labs). Those companies have iPad and Mac products so they already build much of their code on arm64 and they make a point of taking advantage of Apple hardware and software. I don't use BBEdit.
 

polaris20

macrumors 68030
Jul 13, 2008
2,513
790
I have a lot of confidence in the Pixelmator team too (and Serif Labs). Those companies have iPad and Mac products so they already build much of their code on arm64 and they make a point of taking advantage of Apple hardware and software. I don't use BBEdit.
Yeah I’ve got Pixelmator and Pixelmator Photo on iPadOS as well.
 

FloatingBones

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2006
1,506
775
Mathematica
Compatibility will be confirmed after full testing on the new Apple Silicon hardware finishes. Please contact us if you have any questions. (https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/system-requirements.html)

Cool. Also, Wolfram moved to Metal in Version 12.1 (relesed in March, 2020). I hope that Stephen rapidly moves to a M1 MacBook for his mobile work. Steve Jobs and Stephen Wolfram were close in the day; Jobs reportedly suggested the name "Mathematica". These two companies have moved apart in the last 5 years.

The free version of Mathematica on the Raspberry Pi is a real winner -- especially with the new Raspberry Pi 400 turnkey computer. You can author notebooks there and then play 'em on an iPad or Macbook. The 400 would be a great gift for a HS student.
 

theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,880
3,059
Cool. Also, Wolfram moved to Metal in Version 12.1 (relesed in March, 2020). I hope that Stephen rapidly moves to a M1 MacBook for his mobile work. Steve Jobs and Stephen Wolfram were close in the day; Jobs reportedly suggested the name "Mathematica". These two companies have moved apart in the last 5 years.

The free version of Mathematica on the Raspberry Pi is a real winner -- especially with the new Raspberry Pi 400 turnkey computer. You can author notebooks there and then play 'em on an iPad or Macbook. The 400 would be a great gift for a HS student.
I wonder if the initial Mathematica version for AS is going to run in Rosetta 2 or be native. [I noticed that MATLAB is only going to be avail. via Rosetta 2 to start—a native version is in development.]

Is the Raspberry Pi version of Mathematica native, or does it run through some sort of translator?
 
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FloatingBones

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2006
1,506
775
I wonder if the initial Mathematica version for AS is going to run in Rosetta 2 or be native. [I noticed that MATLAB is only going to be avail. via Rosetta 2 to start—a native version is in development.]

Is the Raspberry Pi version of Mathematica native, or does it run through some sort of translator?
I don't think it's a release per se; I'm sure the existing binaries will fire up just fine under Rosetta 2 -- after the one-time ~20 second delay. I expect to hear something in the Wolfram Blog in the next week or two.

Wolfram has been providing a free version of Mathematica on the RPi since 2013. I'm certain they are native ports. The joke is that the Raspberry Pi 1 was painfully slow, but the Pi 4 runs Mathematica at a pretty decent clip. They even have an 8GB version of the Pi 4, but only 4GB of space is accessible for individual apps until the 64-bit version of Raspbian (with any necessary app updates) are released. The keyboard-as-an-enclosure Pi 400 is great for people who don't want to mess with hardware assembly at all, and I'm certain they will have the 8GB Pi 4 version packaged this way soon. I wish that Apple could have a Raspberry Pi presence in their online and physical stores, but that would take some high-position influence at Apple to make happen.
 

stw

macrumors newbie
Jan 28, 2002
21
6
I have / know of a few more:
  • DEVONthink
  • OmniOutliner
  • other SW from Omni
  • Celestia
  • coconutBattery
  • Vienna
  • Viscosity
  • Wipr
  • GraphicConverter
  • Sparkle
  • BBEdit
  • PCalc
  • LockRattler / SilentKnight
  • BresinkSoftwareUpdater and some tools using it
  • Mints (which can search your applications for Universal Binaries)
 

theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,880
3,059
I don't think it's a release per se; I'm sure the existing binaries will fire up just fine under Rosetta 2 -- after the one-time ~20 second delay. I expect to hear something in the Wolfram Blog in the next week or two.
That's unfortunate if it won't be native—I was looking forward to seeing some M1 benchmarks using MMA!

I wish that Apple could have a Raspberry Pi presence in their online and physical stores, but that would take some high-position influence at Apple to make happen.
Why would Apple do that when they already have this: https://hackaday.com/2016/04/01/apple-introduces-their-answer-to-the-raspberry-pi/ ?

Anyways, seriously (you'll notice the above was posted on April 1), I'm afraid I don't follow what you're suggesting. Why would Apple want to allow a competing computer manufacturer (even if it is a non-profit, and doesn't compete in Apple's market segment) to sell its wares in Apple stores? Wouldn't this be like Tesla allowing people to order those super-mini Smart Cars (if they were still made) through its website?
 
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Takuro

macrumors 6502a
Jun 15, 2009
584
274
I have / know of a few more:

...

I added these to the first post. It's a Wiki post, so anyone can edit it, as a heads-up.

I could find no evidence that Celestia (not sure which one you meant, only found an old project on Sourceforge) or Wipr are actually universal binaries at this time.

On a side note: Some apps I've come across mention in release notes that they have "compatibility" or "resolved issues" with Apple Silicon Macs but don't claim to be actual universal binaries. I'm skipping those for now since they'd require testing to see if they contain actual ARM code or not.
 

imdog

macrumors 6502
Jun 20, 2017
353
793
Disneyland
Any other music producers here? I just bought the Mac mini but I won't have it until Christmas, coming from a late-2015 5k iMac. I'm hoping I can do everything on it fairly soon. I use Logic as my DAW so no worries there, my favorite plugins are Spitfire Audio, Native Instruments Kontakt , and various Antares & Izotope plugins. My only hardware right now is a Teenage Engineering OP-1, I was planning on getting a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 & Roli Light Blocks; but I'm not sure when they will be compatible with Apple Silicon. I've read that Native Instruments is having some issues with Big Sur right now and they don't recommend updating yet. Apparently you can't even use their hardware with Big Sur at the moment.
 
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chumps

Cancelled
Sep 2, 2020
71
62
Thanks to this thread I found out about Vectorizer! A bitmap to vector converter and I tested it on a 3rd gen iPad Pro and it is incredibly fast vs my 2014 iMac w/ 32gb ram. I believe the app utilizes ML cores? I look forward to testing it on my M1 mini when it arrives.
 
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FloatingBones

macrumors 68000
Jul 19, 2006
1,506
775
That's unfortunate if it won't be native—I was looking forward to seeing some M1 benchmarks using MMA!
I think Wolfram will be on the case. They are an agile company, and Stephen has been running it with a distributed work@home approach for years.

I also think people are overworrying the use of Rosetta 2. Generating the code the first time an app is invoked seems a superior approach to the 2006 PowerPC Rosetta approach. Apps should perform OK, and intelligent developers should be able to rapidly rebuild for the new instruction set.

Why would Apple want to allow a competing computer manufacturer (even if it is a non-profit, and doesn't compete in Apple's market segment) to sell its wares in Apple stores? Wouldn't this be like Tesla allowing people to order those super-mini Smart Cars (if they were still made) through its website?

1. Because something like the Raspberry Pi 400 doesn't compete with anything Apple sells.
2. Because Wolfram Research gives away full-blown Mathematica for this platform, and more people should get their minds blown by that.
3. Because hacking rudimentary electronics through the GPIO interface (provided with the Pi 400) is a tremendous way to learn.
4. Because the Pi has a boatload of learning apps.
5. Because nobody in North America is offering the Raspberry Pi in retail stores. AFAIK, there are only a couple of stores in the UK.

That was a great April Fool's joke. I missed it when it came out.
 

theorist9

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,880
3,059
I think Wolfram will be on the case. They are an agile company, and Stephen has been running it with a distributed work@home approach for years.

I also think people are overworrying the use of Rosetta 2. Generating the code the first time an app is invoked seems a superior approach to the 2006 PowerPC Rosetta approach. Apps should perform OK, and intelligent developers should be able to rapidly rebuild for the new instruction set.



1. Because something like the Raspberry Pi 400 doesn't compete with anything Apple sells.
2. Because Wolfram Research gives away full-blown Mathematica for this platform, and more people should get their minds blown by that.
3. Because hacking rudimentary electronics through the GPIO interface (provided with the Pi 400) is a tremendous way to learn.
4. Because the Pi has a boatload of learning apps.
5. Because nobody in North America is offering the Raspberry Pi in retail stores. AFAIK, there are only a couple of stores in the UK.

That was a great April Fool's joke. I missed it when it came out.
Thanks for giving your reasons. My view is different. Regardless of how good a product the Raspberry Pi is, I don't think it makes any business sense for Apple to sell it.

Apple's stores are designed to be clean, simple, and focused on selling and supporting its product lines. So they only sell Mac devices, and selected accessories for them. The Pi is an entirely different computer system, running an entirely different OS, that Apple doesn't support. It would only serve to create customer confusion, and distract from that focus, for Apple to offer such a product.

I.e., right now their stores only sell products that are/support/work on Apple devices. Why would they want to have sales staff taking time away from that to explain an entirely different computer system, whose purchase has nothing to do with bringing people into the Apple ecosystem, and which (if the customer has issues with it) they don't support?

Apple of course does have a strong educational component but it is, as makes sense for a business, centered around getting kids to learn computing using its own devices.

Now you might argue that Apple would be serving a public good by promoting the Pi. If Apple is willing to do more to promote the public good, it makes more sense for it to direct its efforts to do more to improve its own business practices, e.g., treatment of foreign workers, and recyclability of iDevices, etc. (yes, they are working in those areas, but there is room for improvement), and increase its charitable donations (e.g., highly-subsidized iPads for impoverished schools).
 

OriginalClone

macrumors 6502
Jul 14, 2012
422
727
Apple announced Adobe would be bringing Lightroom to Apple Silicon in December. Hopefully that's going to include Lightroom Classic, not just the cloud-supported version.
Knowing how slow Adobe has been with the iOS app rollout, I’m sure it will be the inferior (IMO) LR app, not classic.
 
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mr_jomo

Cancelled
Dec 9, 2018
429
530
I don't see Google being in any hurry. But It will probably work in Rosetta. Microsoft has a project underway to port Edge for Windows to ARM. I'd expect we will see a native version at some point.
The ARM native version of Microsoft Edge is, judging from youtubers, very solid and super fast on Windows for ARM. It was released back in FEB. 2020, so one should guess that Microsoft has a pretty stable Chromium framework on ARM helping a port to macOS.
 

MalcolmH

macrumors member
Aug 8, 2020
41
14
with the exception of apple software then. Office is a given; it's not a cpu intensive task and it'd probably work fine with emulation. I mean yeah productive was not the right word; I'm thinking of a cpu-intensive powerhouse like for video, audio; design...; those things people often buy macs for. I'm not saying you can't be "productive" using just a browser and a text editor (I mean personnaly for those things I'd buy a refurbed air from a few years back but that's just me)
These type of workloads are moving to the Neural Engine / GPU and away from the CPU as they can be highly parallelised. They are likely to work very well on M1, even under Rosetta if they are using Metal. Anyway, this is of course my expectation .. I guess we will see later this week as everyone starts to post their first reactions.
 

lightfire

macrumors regular
Aug 10, 2017
143
30
Any other music producers here? I just bought the Mac mini but I won't have it until Christmas, coming from a late-2015 5k iMac. I'm hoping I can do everything on it fairly soon. I use Logic as my DAW so no worries there, my favorite plugins are Spitfire Audio, Native Instruments Kontakt , and various Antares & Izotope plugins. My only hardware right now is a Teenage Engineering OP-1, I was planning on getting a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 & Roli Light Blocks; but I'm not sure when they will be compatible with Apple Silicon. I've read that Native Instruments is having some issues with Big Sur right now and they don't recommend updating yet. Apparently you can't even use their hardware with Big Sur at the moment.
Not a producer, but a home recording enthusiast. I just purchased a Mac Pro M1 with Logic included. Have you found Logic to be intuitive and powerful? I have been learning Studio One and have used Reaper. Have you ever tried that and if so how does it compare with Logic? And yes, interfaces and plug-ins will be a problem. I have a Tascam mixer/interface with USB-C but there wont be drivers, I think, especially in the short term.
 

ratspg

macrumors 68020
Dec 19, 2002
2,394
8,106
Los Angeles, CA
Any other music producers here? I just bought the Mac mini but I won't have it until Christmas, coming from a late-2015 5k iMac. I'm hoping I can do everything on it fairly soon. I use Logic as my DAW so no worries there, my favorite plugins are Spitfire Audio, Native Instruments Kontakt , and various Antares & Izotope plugins. My only hardware right now is a Teenage Engineering OP-1, I was planning on getting a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 & Roli Light Blocks; but I'm not sure when they will be compatible with Apple Silicon. I've read that Native Instruments is having some issues with Big Sur right now and they don't recommend updating yet. Apparently you can't even use their hardware with Big Sur at the moment.
I’m running my studio on a Mac Pro Trash Can still.... I picked up a MacBook Air M 1 and I’m excited to see its performance on Logic. Problem is my audio interface (Apollo’s ) aren’t supported on Big Sur just yet, let alone Apple Silicon. *Spitfire Audio is Awesomeeeee* :)
 
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