Upcoming iPad Mini 5

[rui no onna]

The minis all pretty much had the same exact hardware specs of phones. Then the Mini 4 came out with 2GB of ram when A8 typically had one and also an overclocked A8. It seems like Apple pretty much knew the mini line was nearing its end, and decided to future proof it a bit better so they wouldn’t have to release another one before the line was discontinued.

The mini 4 was released in 2015 after the iPhone 6s (A9/2GB). If Apple had really wanted to future proof it, they would've used A9 on the mini 4.

 

[acorntoy]

The mini 4 was released in 2015 after the iPhone 6s (A9/2GB). If Apple had really wanted to future proof it, they would've used A9 on the mini 4.

Interesting, they probably should have looking at it now, the A9 is still perfectly acceptable. I admit I don’t follow the mini line extremely closely, it just spiked my interest how they kind of went out of the way for the mini 4.

 

[rui no onna]

Interesting, they probably should have looking at it now, the A9 is still perfectly acceptable. I admit I don’t follow the mini line extremely closely, it just spiked my interest how they kind of went out of the way for the mini 4.

I wanted a mini back when the 9.7 iPads had huge bezels and were around 2nd gen Pro 12.9 weight so I followed the line quite closely. Now though, I've kinda gotten used to the 1-lb iPads.

• 2012 mini: basically smaller iPad 2
• 2013 mini 2: basically smaller iPad Air, performance parity between mini and 9.7, would've bought this but supply issues meant it wasn't available for my overseas trip (wanted an iPad with universal LTE so got the Air by default)
• 2014 mini 3: basically mini 2 with better color gamut and TouchID, was very disappointed with this as I was expecting close to parity with Air 2
• 2015 mini 4: A8/2GB - what I had expected to see and buy in 2014, disappointing again compated to A9 iPhones

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

I've seen a number of stores selling the Mini 4 at heavily discounted prices this month - that could suggest two things...a runout to get rid of a soon-to-be obsolete product line, or a soon-to-be replaced product line.

The discounts are up to 25% off, which is unheard of with Apple products here in NZ...

I guess we'll know in a month or so.

 

[masotime]

The discounts are up to 25% off, which is unheard of with Apple products here in NZ...

I guess we'll know in a month or so.

The iPad mini 4 is also almost 3 years old at this point. To me 25% is still too little, it should be half price by now, even the cheap “2018 iPad” is miles ahead of it in internals.

 

[ftaok]

The iPad mini 4 is also almost 3 years old at this point. To me 25% is still too little, it should be half price by now, even the cheap “2018 iPad” is miles ahead of it in internals.

Totally agree, but it's still the only 7.9" iPad available. So if you want that form factor, you're gonna be overpaying (or buying used).

 

[Elwe]

The iPad mini 4 is also almost 3 years old at this point. To me 25% is still too little, it should be half price by now, even the cheap “2018 iPad” is miles ahead of it in internals.

Of course, this is your opinion. But I do not understand this logic. Never have. Perhaps if this was a fully sunk cost . . . like how some manufactures or clothing do it where they have a huge run in production, and then just sell what they have over time. If it is two seasons old and things are not really selling, they can (and often do) discount to the levels you describe.

But this is not the case with the iPad mini 4. Apple still manufacturers them. They are not only selling out of a huge backlog that they must sell from some storage warehouse somewhere they have to empty to make room for other things. And they are still selling them at the current price.

I just do not get it. If Apple has made the determination that they can make X amount of money by continuing to make them at whatever current cost and sell them to people who will pay the current price . . . unless they have reason to believe that they can selling many more of them at a lowered cost and make the same amount of money . . . unless that is true, why would Apple lower the price? Why would they simply not continue doing what they are doing?

At some point in time, that crossover point will happen. When that happens, my guess is that Apple just ends the product line instead of spending money upfront in designing/producing/marketing a niche product. If they were going to do other, I would think we would have gotten the iPad mini 5 at the same time we got the 2018 iPad.

 

[Elwe]

I wanted a mini back when the 9.7 iPads had huge bezels and were around 2nd gen Pro 12.9 weight so I followed the line quite closely. Now though, I've kinda gotten used to the 1-lb iPads.

I have not. I have fairly strong hands and wrists, and I still very much noticed the difference between an iPad and an iPad mini especially over time. They are completely different form factors for me.

 

[rui no onna]

I have not. I have fairly strong hands and wrists, and I still very much noticed the difference between an iPad and an iPad mini especially over time. They are completely different form factors for me.

By got used to, I meant I've learned to make allowances with how I held it. I don't use it single-handed for long periods for example. It's usually resting against something. Mind, I think the Kindle Paperwhite (~200g?) is my limit for extended single-handed use anyway.

 

[eVolcre]

Of course, this is your opinion. But I do not understand this logic. Never have. Perhaps if this was a fully sunk cost . . . like how some manufactures or clothing do it where they have a huge run in production, and then just sell what they have over time. If it is two seasons old and things are not really selling, they can (and often do) discount to the levels you describe.

But this is not the case with the iPad mini 4. Apple still manufacturers them. They are not only selling out of a huge backlog that they must sell from some storage warehouse somewhere they have to empty to make room for other things. And they are still selling them at the current price.

I just do not get it. If Apple has made the determination that they can make X amount of money by continuing to make them at whatever current cost and sell them to people who will pay the current price . . . unless they have reason to believe that they can selling many more of them at a lowered cost and make the same amount of money . . . unless that is true, why would Apple lower the price? Why would they simply not continue doing what they are doing?

At some point in time, that crossover point will happen. When that happens, my guess is that Apple just ends the product line instead of spending money upfront in designing/producing/marketing a niche product. If they were going to do other, I would think we would have gotten the iPad mini 5 at the same time we got the 2018 iPad.

While I’d love the fancy stuff (no beZels larger screen and pencil support) at this point I’d be happy with a simply processor and memory upgrade, slight drop in cost and new internals. Keep everything else the same.

For me it’s the perfect on the go or couch surfing device. A nice add on to the ginormous iPad Pro I want to get as a laptop replacement trial.

For a few months I went back and forth between the 10.5 and the 12.9. The 10.5 is easier to use in the couch BUT was still too big for me as a browning reading research device. So why compromise? Use the right tool for the job. 12.9 laptop replacement. iPhone for on the go, mini for everything else. With a pencil it’s the perfect moleskine replacement as well.

Let’s see where the take the line. ✌

eV

 

[borgranta]

Will there be an iPad mini 5? Or is it safe to say the iPad mini is really being discontinued??

The reduced Bezel iPad might be closer in size tho the mini.

 

[eVolcre]

The reduced Bezel iPad might be closer in size tho the mini.

The reduced 10.5? No way. Now if they reduce the 9.7 (which I don’t see happening that’s the SE of the iPad line) then we’re cloaer to the mini chassis.

A great lineup would be

The cheap 329 iPad with home button.

11” and 12.9” pro iPad X style.

Mini Pro. Going edge to edge gets you a screen close to 9 inches. Someone did the math in another thread. Add pencil support and you have a great sized (body and screen) iPad for on the go or couch use. And no. A gigantic phone doesn’t come close.

 

[WinterWolf90]

I think its safe to say it will be kept at iPad mini 4 and never be updated until it's just d/ced

 

[masotime]

But this is not the case with the iPad mini 4. Apple still manufacturers them. They are not only selling out of a huge backlog that they must sell from some storage warehouse somewhere they have to empty to make room for other things. And they are still selling them at the current price.

I just do not get it. If Apple has made the determination that they can make X amount of money by continuing to make them at whatever current cost and sell them to people who will pay the current price . . . unless they have reason to believe that they can selling many more of them at a lowered cost and make the same amount of money . . . unless that is true, why would Apple lower the price? Why would they simply not continue doing what they are doing?

... I never said I thought Apple was making the wrong move sales wise. Of course they won't lower the price - it's still the best tablet in the market now in that form factor. There's no competition.

It's the right thing to do profit-wise. Do you think it's the right thing to do for Apple's customers? That's the point I'm trying to make. If Apple really wants to do right by its customers, they would lower the price or (preferably) finally release an updated one.

 

[lparsons21]

I wanted a traveling iPad about a year ago as my older Mini was just so slow and won't upgrade OS any more. But the cost for a new mini with old tech was just too close to the cost of the 9.7" iPad that I opted for it in wifi+cellular version. For most everything I do when I'm travelling it was the right choice but for reading books it is a bit big and I do more reading while travelling than other things.

I'd still prefer a new Mini but I'm not about to pop for one that is now about 3 years old at the same price it was when it was new tech! Thought about looking at used/non-apple refurbished on Ebay but I figure none of them are really refurbished in any meaningful way.

 

[Azeroth1]

I purchased a used Mini 4 about a month ago.

1. I love the form factor. Great size and weight.
2. Prefer size to my iPad 2018.
3. Noticeably slower than my iPhone X or the iPad (obviously).
4. Would buy a refreshed model of the Mini the day it was released. If had to choose, like the mini a lot more than full size iPad.

Nice product. Too bad they neglect it.

 

[Elwe]

... I never said I thought Apple was making the wrong move sales wise. Of course they won't lower the price - it's still the best tablet in the market now in that form factor. There's no competition.

It's the right thing to do profit-wise. Do you think it's the right thing to do for Apple's customers? That's the point I'm trying to make. If Apple really wants to do right by its customers, they would lower the price or (preferably) finally release an updated one.

I do not wish for this to come across as an attack, but given how you, apparently, think about this situation, I am glad someone like you is not making decisions at Apple. Nor any company I rely on long-term. I want the CEO to do the right thing for the business overall, not the right thing solely for the consumer or vendor or stockholder or employee or . . .

Just to be clear, I am both a stock-holder and consumer. I fully realize these groups can have divergent views. In the long run, though, I think both viewpoints have aligned with Apple.

As a consumer (looking at the long-run), I am happy with Apple not getting into a race-to-the-bottom on price. It means they can do several consumer-friendly things, including having relatively good long-term support. It means more resources to put into R&D for the next great thing. It means residual value of the item is not near worthless. So, no, in this case I do not believe lowering the price is the right thing to do as a customer.

As a consumer, I do agree that I would like to see an update. But, again, this is where another viewpoint is illustrative. If any CEO runs a business only to cater to the whims of the (apparently small set of) consumer(s) in the short-term, they will not be in business for very long. How does that serve the consumer in the long-run?

 

[masotime]

I do not wish for this to come across as an attack, but given how you, apparently, think about this situation, I am glad someone like you is not making decisions at Apple. Nor any company I rely on long-term. I want the CEO to do the right thing for the business overall, not the right thing solely for the consumer or vendor or stockholder or employee or . . .

In what way did I perceive your post as a personal attack? You were dismissing my opinion as a bad sales strategy, I simply pointed out that you're dismissing my opinion which I (obviously) made as a consumer, not their sales strategy in which I agreed with you.

Just to be clear, I am both a stock-holder and consumer. I fully realize these groups can have divergent views. In the long run, though, I think both viewpoints have aligned with Apple.

As a consumer (looking at the long-run), I am happy with Apple not getting into a race-to-the-bottom on price. It means they can do several consumer-friendly things, including having relatively good long-term support. It means more resources to put into R&D for the next great thing. It means residual value of the item is not near worthless. So, no, in this case I do not believe lowering the price is the right thing to do as a customer.

The introduction and existence of the $329 iPad negates your point. It is a high quality device which is priced very well for consumers with long term support etc.

As a consumer, I do agree that I would like to see an update. But, again, this is where another viewpoint is illustrative. If any CEO runs a business only to cater to the whims of the (apparently small set of) consumer(s) in the short-term, they will not be in business for very long. How does that serve the consumer in the long-run?

Can you demonstrate how lower prices and/or a product refresh "cater to the whims of the (apparently small set of) consumer(s)"? The iPad mini 4 with a 128GB configuration is $399. The 2018 iPad @ 128GB is $429, effectively the same price with a larger screen, faster processor and Apple Pencil support. It has already been demonstrated that the iPad mini makes up ~18% of Apple's tablet market sales, on par with both iPad Pros. The demand is there. It should either be updated (preferably) or have its price reduced.

But yes, Apple can continue to keep the status quo to maximize profits. I don't disagree. However, I don't see how there is any kind of "alignment" here between consumers and stock-holders, and frankly if you really are a stock-holder you'll know the majority of the revenues are from the growing services sector, "other" products (Watch, AirPods) and of course the flagship iPhone, not the iPad. I strongly respect Tim Cook as a CEO, but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with some of Apple's pricing strategies / product roadmaps.

This isn't a trading forum - we're not discussing whether we should buy $AAPL based on their iPad Mini pricing strategy. If we're going to discuss stock buying strategies, I'd say $TSLA would have been a much better bet than $AAPL before their respective earning calls for the past quarter.

 

[Elwe]

In what way did I perceive your post as a personal attack? You were dismissing my opinion as a bad sales strategy, I simply pointed out that you're dismissing my opinion which I (obviously) made as a consumer, not their sales strategy in which I agreed with you.



The introduction and existence of the $329 iPad negates your point. It is a high quality device which is priced very well for consumers with long term support etc.



Can you demonstrate how lower prices and/or a product refresh "cater to the whims of the (apparently small set of) consumer(s)"? The iPad mini 4 with a 128GB configuration is $399. The 2018 iPad @ 128GB is $429, effectively the same price with a larger screen, faster processor and Apple Pencil support. It has already been demonstrated that the iPad mini makes up ~18% of Apple's tablet market sales, on par with both iPad Pros. The demand is there. It should either be updated (preferably) or have its price reduced.

But yes, Apple can continue to keep the status quo to maximize profits. I don't disagree. However, I don't see how there is any kind of "alignment" here between consumers and stock-holders, and frankly if you really are a stock-holder you'll know the majority of the revenues are from the growing services sector, "other" products (Watch, AirPods) and of course the flagship iPhone, not the iPad. I strongly respect Tim Cook as a CEO, but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with some of Apple's pricing strategies / product roadmaps.

This isn't a trading forum - we're not discussing whether we should buy $AAPL based on their iPad Mini pricing strategy. If we're going to discuss stock buying strategies, I'd say $TSLA would have been a much better bet than $AAPL before their respective earning calls for the past quarter.

I think I fundamentally disagree with you too much to have a productive conversation. In response, I can only wish you a good day.

 

[HarryWild]

Last quarter the Mini accounted for 18% of all iPad sales and it is 3=years old too!

 

[solarmon]

Love this iPad mini 4 128 GB, 2nd mini I’ve owned. Unlikely to buy anything with a larger case. In case you’re listening, Apple: keep this gem. So portable, love it.

 

[spinedoc77]

Of course, this is your opinion. But I do not understand this logic. Never have. Perhaps if this was a fully sunk cost . . . like how some manufactures or clothing do it where they have a huge run in production, and then just sell what they have over time. If it is two seasons old and things are not really selling, they can (and often do) discount to the levels you describe.

But this is not the case with the iPad mini 4. Apple still manufacturers them. They are not only selling out of a huge backlog that they must sell from some storage warehouse somewhere they have to empty to make room for other things. And they are still selling them at the current price.

I just do not get it. If Apple has made the determination that they can make X amount of money by continuing to make them at whatever current cost and sell them to people who will pay the current price . . . unless they have reason to believe that they can selling many more of them at a lowered cost and make the same amount of money . . . unless that is true, why would Apple lower the price? Why would they simply not continue doing what they are doing?

At some point in time, that crossover point will happen. When that happens, my guess is that Apple just ends the product line instead of spending money upfront in designing/producing/marketing a niche product. If they were going to do other, I would think we would have gotten the iPad mini 5 at the same time we got the 2018 iPad.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me in that scenario is why wouldn't Apple update the mini? They update almost everything else with a few exceptions. Otherwise why bother to update their other ipad lineup? I would think that with each refresh Apple increases, or at least maintains sales of a particular product whether it's an ipad, phone or computer. Of course I don't have access to their numbers, but I keep hearing that if they discontinue the mini it's due to lack of sales because the plus sized iphones cannibalized their sales.
[doublepost=1533679521][/doublepost]

Last quarter the Mini accounted for 18% of all iPad sales and it is 3=years old too!

Ahh so then it does make sense for them not to drop the price, and I suppose not bother with the R/D of updating it. But I'm still curious why they are not updating it even if it's making money. Eventually it will not run iOS efficiently as more features are added to it, and they can't add new goodies like ARkit to it. Of course Apple is concerned about profit, but I also think they would be concerned with their image and having a product run slowly or inefficiently with their name on it might not be good PR. Of course that's ignoring the entire fiasco where they slowed down older iphones and how long it takes them to update some of their macbooks, so I suppose it shouldn't surprise me.

Still, I think there will be another ipad mini. Maybe not this year, but if it's selling that well for a 3 year old device there is no way Apple won't update it at some point.

 

[Elwe]

Still, I think there will be another ipad mini. Maybe not this year, but if it's selling that well for a 3 year old device there is no way Apple won't update it at some point.

I would caution against you thinking "there is no way". Keep in mind that the Mac mini and iPod touch (6th generation) are still sold "new". . . the former being last released almost three years ago, and the latter being released over three years ago. They both run current versions of their respective OS bases, and will run the next versions soon to drop. While Tim Cook himself has said the Mac mini remains an important part of Apple's lineup (though he never said an update was forthcoming), and people have been in a slight state of despair for a while. And almost no one discusses Apple updating the iPod lineup. Both can be purchased "new".

Now that I think of it, the current generations of iPad mini and iPod Touch share a processor baseline architecture. I think the mini comes with double the RAM, though. Same CPU architecture that is in HomePod . . . so, my wild-ass-guess is that both iPad mini 4 and iPod Touch (6th gen) get sold as is for another year, but then both get dropped in IOS 13 . . . that all A8-based devices running IOS get dropped (which would include the iPhone 5s and 6/6+, and iPads Air and Air2). The Apple TV (4th gen) and HomePod continue on with their optimized OS versions.

The jump in performance from the A8 to A9 is considerable, not to many other functional differences (encryption engine, for example).

 

[spinedoc77]

I would caution against you thinking "there is no way". Keep in mind that the Mac mini and iPod touch (6th generation) are still sold "new". . . the former being last released almost three years ago, and the latter being released over three years ago. They both run current versions of their respective OS bases, and will run the next versions soon to drop. While Tim Cook himself has said the Mac mini remains an important part of Apple's lineup (though he never said an update was forthcoming), and people have been in a slight state of despair for a while. And almost no one discusses Apple updating the iPod lineup. Both can be purchased "new".

Now that I think of it, the current generations of iPad mini and iPod Touch share a processor baseline architecture. I think the mini comes with double the RAM, though. Same CPU architecture that is in HomePod . . . so, my wild-ass-guess is that both iPad mini 4 and iPod Touch (6th gen) get sold as is for another year, but then both get dropped in IOS 13 . . . that all A8-based devices running IOS get dropped (which would include the iPhone 5s and 6/6+, and iPads Air and Air2). The Apple TV (4th gen) and HomePod continue on with their optimized OS versions.

The jump in performance from the A8 to A9 is considerable, not to many other functional differences (encryption engine, for example).

Yeah I can see Apple sitting on the mini 4 forever, sigh.

 

[JPack]

Ahh so then it does make sense for them not to drop the price, and I suppose not bother with the R/D of updating it. But I'm still curious why they are not updating it even if it's making money. Eventually it will not run iOS efficiently as more features are added to it, and they can't add new goodies like ARkit to it. Of course Apple is concerned about profit, but I also think they would be concerned with their image and having a product run slowly or inefficiently with their name on it might not be good PR. Of course that's ignoring the entire fiasco where they slowed down older iphones and how long it takes them to update some of their macbooks, so I suppose it shouldn't surprise me.

Still, I think there will be another ipad mini. Maybe not this year, but if it's selling that well for a 3 year old device there is no way Apple won't update it at some point.

iPad mini 4 is often discounted to $299. Walmart and Best Buy have run $100 off promos in March, May, and July.

It's tough to say how much of the U.S. demand for iPad mini is desire for 7.9" vs. desire for a $299 iPad.