Upgrading 2013-2015 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

[enplaned]

What is the best way to test sustained read write speeds, as currently things don't seem to be adding up for a QLC p2 drive (I expected it to be slower, maybe I've just misunderstood everything).

The P2 is rated at 2400/1800 MB/s Read/Write - see Crucial's page on the P2 here, and scroll down to Specifications:

NVME M.2 PCIE SSDs | Solid State Drives

Crucial NVME M.2 PCIE SSDs unlock the performance of your computer and deliver shorter load times and faster data transfers.

www.crucial.com

You're running a MBP 2014, so it has PCIe 2.0, so it's limited to around 1500 Read/Write and you're getting that. From a speed standpoint, the P2 is a good choice, because your computer can't do more than about 1500 anyway, so getting a drive that could do, say, 7000 MB/s would be a total waste.

The concern for QLC is not speed rating, but endurance. On that same spec sheet it says TBW 300TB - the drive is rated to 300 TB of writes. Since the drive itself is 1TB, basically that says that the drive is rated for an average of 300 writes per byte/bit.

That's low relative to TLC drives. Most 1TB TLC drives are rated to at least 600 TBW - I bought a 1 TB TLC drive over Black Friday that is rated for 1,600 TBW.

This is the sense in which QLC drives don't last as long - it costs less to produce, but it doesn't last as long.

I would guess that for most consumers 300 TBW is fine. They might go 10 years without coming close to that unless they are engaged in something that constantly overwrites to their drive. So you could argue that the original TLC formulation of the P2 was probably overspecified. But Crucial (and other manufacturers - Crucial wasn't the only one) engaged in, as I understand it, bait-and-switch - they shifted from TLC to QLC without changing the model number, and that's not OK. It would have been fine if Crucial had just rolled out the P2Q with QLC, dropped the price by whatever, and called it a day, but as I understand it, that's not what they did.

The one thing I don't understand is that your drive doesn't have DRAM. The way that this is compensated for on Windows machines is with HMB - in other words, the drive uses main computer RAM rather than its own on-drive RAM. It was my understanding that Macs don't do this, and I would have thought this would impact the performance of your P2 - but it doesn't appear to be. So, something in my understanding is wrong, because it appears you're getting great results.

Oh well. Turns out my mental model still has some holes in it...

 

[EugW]

You're getting a MacBookPro12,1? My understanding is that can support full PCIe 3.0, in which case you are capped at around 3000 MB/s Read/Write, unlike most late 2013-2015 MacBookPros which are limited to around 1500 MB/s.

My preference is the SK Hynix P31, for reasons explained here:

Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

CORRECTIONS WELCOMED, ALL ERRORS ABOVE ARE MINE, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK... etc. I think WD Black v3 = SN850. Not 100% sure, it might also be the SN750 (the full-fat version, not the SN750 SE). The SN850 is almost certainly way too much drive for this application. I believe that max read/write...

forums.macrumors.com

Yes, it's a big post, but just search in it for mentions of SK Hynix and read those parts.

Thanks or the info. I haven't received it yet, but yes I believe the model is MacBookPro12,1.

However, I am not really concerned about peak sequential transfer speeds. I'm more interested in random speeds and power utilization. There is not going to be any hardcore multimedia content creation on this machine.

 

[enplaned]

Thanks or the info. I haven't received it yet, but yes I believe the model is MacBookPro12,1.

However, I am not really concerned about peak sequential transfer speeds. I'm more interested in random speeds and power utilization. There is not going to be any hardcore multimedia content creation on this machine.

Right - the main reason to get the SK Hynix P31 is, in my view, the fact that it is incredibly power efficient - famously so (it's like a step-change relative to competitors in this regard). Plus it does over 3000 MB/s read/write.

I have a MBP 11,4, which also has PCIe 3.0. So the reason I selected the P31 is because it's power efficient *and* it can use the PCIe 3.0 capabilities of the 11,4.

I also have an 11,1 - that's just PCIe 2.0. But I have another P31 for the 11,1 because of the power efficiency.

 

[EugW]

Right - the main reason to get the SK Hynix P31 is, in my view, the fact that it is incredibly power efficient - famously so (it's like a step-change relative to competitors in this regard). Plus it does over 3000 MB/s read/write.

Hmm... The SK Hynix Gold P31 is very expensive up here in Canada. It's around CAD$150 / US$118 for a 500 GB. Crucial P2 for the same capacity is about CAD$60 / US$47. IOW, the Hynix costs literally 2.5X as much as the Crucial.

WD SN550 is even cheaper but it has higher idle power usage. I wonder how much power the new WD SN570 uses in a Mac.

 

[enplaned]

Hmm... The SK Hynix Gold P31 is very expensive up here in Canada. It's around CAD$150 / US$118 for a 500 GB. Crucial P2 for the same capacity is about CAD$60 / US$47. IOW, the Hynix costs literally 2.5X as much as the Crucial.

WD SN550 is even cheaper but it has higher idle power usage. I wonder how much power the new WD SN570 uses in a Mac.

Ouch. I bought a 500GB P31 for less than half that. Those stories of Canadians pillaging US Costcos start to make more sense ;-)

If you are motivated to find a faster drive that's inexpensive in Loony terms, you could use this as a resource:

SSDs

docs.google.com

In Column F has the controller chip for the SSD - any Phison 12 or 16 controlled drive will work. Then look in column M for a drive in the 3000 +/- MB/s Read-Write level.

 

[EugW]

I was looking at the review of the Seagate BarraCuda Q5, and it seems to be the same thing as the Crucial P2, with Phison E13T controller and QLC chips. Seagate released them up front with QLC chips mentioned right in the spec. Both are DRAM-less. The Crucial uses Micron chips (of course) and the Seagate uses Intel chips.

The benchmarks of the Seagate BarraCuda Q5 aren't awesome, but they are decent, and I assume the Crucial P2 QLC is in the same ballpark. Considering their low price and as long as the power utilization is low, I would still consider those, esp. since this MacBookPro12,1 is intended for a young kid, not a working adult.

I know many here have used the Crucial P2. Has anyone tried the Seagate Q5? I'm guessing it would be as compatible as the Crucial P2, but you never know. The main reason I ask is the Seagate Q5 is priced like the WD SN550, whereas the Crucial P2 is slightly more here.

 

[enplaned]

Search results for query: Seagate Q5

forums.macrumors.com

Click on the above (which is the result of using the search function at the top of the page - to the left, under the bell - and using as search terms Seagate and Q5 and restricting to this thread.

You'll see the answer to your question is "no" - you and one other have asked about it, but no one has admitted to it, at least in this thread.

If you expand the search to the whole site, you get two more entries dating to 2013 and 2010 - i.e. before any of this was relevant.

 

[EugW]

Yeah, I had already done a search and didn't find much, which is why I asked.

 

[xanderx007]

Yeah, I had already done a search and didn't find much, which is why I asked.

If you can't find it, then you can always use what is already mentioned, available and verified working instead.

 

[dbgt]

Check my original post.

I did read it before posting, in fact I spend 2 full days readings lots of comments regarding several drives i was interested in on this thread.

I was just wondering if you had any updates, but i guess not and your first impressions are still valid.

I also just noticed that you already wrote the battery replacement you are using in your OP, I missed that part when I first read you comment.

 

[Adelima]

The P2 is rated at 2400/1800 MB/s Read/Write - see Crucial's page on the P2 here, and scroll down to Specifications:

NVME M.2 PCIE SSDs | Solid State Drives

Crucial NVME M.2 PCIE SSDs unlock the performance of your computer and deliver shorter load times and faster data transfers.

www.crucial.com

You're running a MBP 2014, so it has PCIe 2.0, so it's limited to around 1500 Read/Write and you're getting that. From a speed standpoint, the P2 is a good choice, because your computer can't do more than about 1500 anyway, so getting a drive that could do, say, 7000 MB/s would be a total waste.

The concern for QLC is not speed rating, but endurance. On that same spec sheet it says TBW 300TB - the drive is rated to 300 TB of writes. Since the drive itself is 1TB, basically that says that the drive is rated for an average of 300 writes per byte/bit.

That's low relative to TLC drives. Most 1TB TLC drives are rated to at least 600 TBW - I bought a 1 TB TLC drive over Black Friday that is rated for 1,600 TBW.

This is the sense in which QLC drives don't last as long - it costs less to produce, but it doesn't last as long.

I would guess that for most consumers 300 TBW is fine. They might go 10 years without coming close to that unless they are engaged in something that constantly overwrites to their drive. So you could argue that the original TLC formulation of the P2 was probably overspecified. But Crucial (and other manufacturers - Crucial wasn't the only one) engaged in, as I understand it, bait-and-switch - they shifted from TLC to QLC without changing the model number, and that's not OK. It would have been fine if Crucial had just rolled out the P2Q with QLC, dropped the price by whatever, and called it a day, but as I understand it, that's not what they did.

The one thing I don't understand is that your drive doesn't have DRAM. The way that this is compensated for on Windows machines is with HMB - in other words, the drive uses main computer RAM rather than its own on-drive RAM. It was my understanding that Macs don't do this, and I would have thought this would impact the performance of your P2 - but it doesn't appear to be. So, something in my understanding is wrong, because it appears you're getting great results.

Oh well. Turns out my mental model still has some holes in it...

Thanks for the advice! I'm not hugely concerned with the endurance, because with a rating of even just 100tb I'd have to r/w >100 gb daily for 5 years to wear it out. The cache (which is what gives it speed) was what I was more concerned about, since it decreases as the drive fills up, but I think I'll be alright with 1tb. There won't be games on here, which are what I find usually take up all the space.

 

[xanderx007]

I did read it before posting, in fact I spend 2 full days readings lots of comments regarding several drives i was interested in on this thread.

I was just wondering if you had any updates, but i guess not and your first impressions are still valid.

I also just noticed that you already wrote the battery replacement you are using in your OP, I missed that part when I first read you comment.

Still the same. As far as I know, the A2000 is one of the less problematic SSDs in the lot (if there are any problems at all. Right now, current is at 0.16-0.22A with a game, Firefox, safari and a few other things running.

No sleep or hibernation problems. Also it actually idles at 0.0A sometimes, but that may be a fluke.
These are the hourly and 24-hour readouts since yesterday, when I installed iStats.

I've decided on the A2000 (vs the NV1) since it was the most practical and affordable at 1TB, even before I saw ikalamazoo's post about it.

Update: It really does idle at zero at certain times, but, this might be because I set the display to sleep after a minute even with background processes going on.

 

[0134168]

Greetings all,

This weekend I upgraded my storage from 128gb to 1tb. I was quite skeptical about using a Crucial P2, but so far so good. The speeds seem to me to be quite reasonable, and the power draw is very respectable (Idling at 0A after a couple minutes on battery). Last night I had a few crashes trying to test speeds with Amorphous set to high write capacities (something I wasn't able to do with my limited storage before), but since then not too many problems. As far as I know it's a QLC drive, since it's a brand new P2, but I haven't noticed any awful RW speeds so far.
Here's some screenshots of my tests so far. The Black Magic test was run for ~ 10 minutes.

View attachment 1919334View attachment 1919337

View attachment 1919332
Here's the same from my old Apple SSD (I haven't used my time machine yet, which is why they're pictures of the screen)
View attachment 1919335View attachment 1919336
So far I've also installed Lilu and NVMEfix (after the speed test screenshots I've posted).
I do have a couple of questions/concerns.

What is the best way to test sustained read write speeds, as currently things don't seem to be adding up for a QLC p2 drive (I expected it to be slower, maybe I've just misunderstood everything).

How do I know if NVMEFix is working? I've tried the log command that's posted on the SSDPmEnabler Github, and it shows Lilu to be working, but comes up blank for NVMEFix.

Do I need to install SSDPmEnabler with NVMEFix?

Would Amorphous crashing be a concern? It always failed on the write RND4k QD64 test (I tested 8gb and 64gb), the app would lock up, and cause the machine to need hard resetting when I shutdown/restart.

Is there anything else I should be aware of before committing to this drive and transferring my data over?

If you need any more info let me know.

Thanks in advance.
(Edit: IDK what's up with the attachment thing below, or how to get rid of it lol)

Same drive here. Can´t be happyer. But today a receive a Macbook Pro 2015 15". I will try first the P2, to see how it goes. Also will try a SX8200.

 

[0134168]

You're getting a MacBookPro12,1? My understanding is that can support full PCIe 3.0, in which case you are capped at around 3000 MB/s Read/Write, unlike most late 2013-2015 MacBookPros which are limited to around 1500 MB/s.

My preference is the SK Hynix P31, for reasons explained here:

Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe

CORRECTIONS WELCOMED, ALL ERRORS ABOVE ARE MINE, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK... etc. I think WD Black v3 = SN850. Not 100% sure, it might also be the SN750 (the full-fat version, not the SN750 SE). The SN850 is almost certainly way too much drive for this application. I believe that max read/write...

forums.macrumors.com

Yes, it's a big post, but just search in it for mentions of SK Hynix and read those parts.

It´s a pity that drive is absurdly expensive in Europe. 360 USD!!!!

SK Hynix Gold P31 1TB SSD Interno M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe Gen3 | hasta 3,500 MB/s | Disco Duro ssd con Flash NAND de 128 Capas

Experimenta la actualización innovadora de un pionero tecnológico global. SK hynix Gold P31 ofrece el primer NAND de 128 capas del mundo, la velocidad más rápida de su clase, fácil migración de datos y garantía de 5 años. La última innovación del segundo fabricante de memoria más grande del mundo...

www.amazon.es

Just about 125 USD in USA.

SK hynix Gold S31 1TB SATA Gen3 2.5 pulgadas SSD interno | SSD 1TB | Hasta 560 MB/S | Unidad de estado sólido | SSD compacta de 2.5 pulgadas SSD | Unidad interna de estado sólido | SSD SATA

Unidad de estado sólido

www.amazon.com

 

[enplaned]

It´s a pity that drive is absurdly expensive in Europe. 360 USD!!!!

SK Hynix Gold P31 1TB SSD Interno M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe Gen3 | hasta 3,500 MB/s | Disco Duro ssd con Flash NAND de 128 Capas

Experimenta la actualización innovadora de un pionero tecnológico global. SK hynix Gold P31 ofrece el primer NAND de 128 capas del mundo, la velocidad más rápida de su clase, fácil migración de datos y garantía de 5 años. La última innovación del segundo fabricante de memoria más grande del mundo...

www.amazon.es

Just about 125 USD in USA.

SK hynix Gold S31 1TB SATA Gen3 2.5 pulgadas SSD interno | SSD 1TB | Hasta 560 MB/S | Unidad de estado sólido | SSD compacta de 2.5 pulgadas SSD | Unidad interna de estado sólido | SSD SATA

Unidad de estado sólido

www.amazon.com

It was $104 for Black Friday...

 

[0134168]

It was $104 for Black Friday...

Lucky guy!

 

[enplaned]

Lucky guy!

Yeah, but living in Spain also has its compensations...

 

[0134168]

Yeah, but living in Spain also has its compensations...

xD

 

[0134168]

Well. Macbook Pro 15" 2015 is here. As I suspected, Crucial P2 has almost same speeds than in 2014 model. Tried the SX8200 and much faster dough comsuption is much biggger, about 0,22A in idle.

But truly, in improved speed is very notable at usual tasks. So it stays. I wish there were a faster Nvme, but with com sumptios near 0,00A in idle.

Now i´m upgrading to Montery, officially supported, and will try SSDPmEnabler.



Finished. So nice. Comsumption in idle at 0,12A, and speed is great. Really a good NVMe for the Macbook 2015

 

[0134168]

I have lived in USA, UK, France and Italy. And travelled all around the world. Till now, Spain is the best country to live. For a long.

 

[0134168]

And Switzerland! Switzerland is a horr¡ible place to live.They are spo cilivized… and boring.

 

[EugW]

View attachment 1906209

I have good news for those who have the WD SN550:

I updated Big Sur 11.6.1 to Monterey 12.0.1 on October 27. I use OpenCore without any additional Kext. Just plain OpenCore.

What a surprise today when I saw that idle power dropped from 0.31A to 0.19A.

Hmm... So are you saying that the WD SN550 is a viable low power option even without any extra power management enabler kext, as long as you're running Monterey or later?

Is that iStat you are using to monitor the power utilization?

 

[olfo]

What is the best way to test sustained read write speeds, as currently things don't seem to be adding up for a QLC p2 drive (I expected it to be slower, maybe I've just misunderstood everything).

AJA System Test set to 64 GB, and set to “run continously”. Click on the “graph” icon to show the data rate graph.
This is my 2 TB Crucial P2:

How do I know if NVMEFix is working? I've tried the log command that's posted on the SSDPmEnabler Github, and it shows Lilu to be working, but comes up blank for NVMEFix.

Look into System Report under “Extensions”.

Do I need to install SSDPmEnabler with NVMEFix?

Not necessarily – one or the other, or both. As you think what works best for you.

Hi, how to get a text listing of a health ssd? Thanks.

Not really sure what you mean, but SSDReporter and SMARTReporter are my favorites for checking SSD health.

 

[EugW]

View attachment 1906209

I have good news for those who have the WD SN550:

I updated Big Sur 11.6.1 to Monterey 12.0.1 on October 27. I use OpenCore without any additional Kext. Just plain OpenCore.

What a surprise today when I saw that idle power dropped from 0.31A to 0.19A.

For what it's worth, I just checked out iStat, and I get 0.3 A with the Western Digital SN550 on my 2014 Mac mini in Monterey 12.0.1 (no additional kernel extensions). However, I don't know if macOS treats desktops any differently than laptops when it comes to power management for NVMe SSDs.

I see that M.2 NVMe slots usually are 3.3 V, so I guess that means ~1 Watt idle with the WD SN550. So, if I do end up doing the SSD upgrade on the 2015 MacBook Pro, I'll probably just stick with getting something like a Crucial P2 (or maybe I'll check out the Seagate Q5 which has the same controller), given that the Hynix costs so damn much here.

 

[0134168]

In a Desktop, for me, can consume 1.000.000 A. xD