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Upgrading 2013-2015 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe
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Why do you think the NV1 is a bad replacement of the A2000? What is the reasoning behind your statement? Thx.
It's DRAMless and QLC. For an internal drive, it's not really ideal. DRAMless SSDs use part of the system memory, and performance drops significantly under heavy use (and I do graphics).
The 2TB Kingston NV1, or at least one version of it, is the same as the Crucial P2 2TB and Seagate Q5 2TB. QLC with E13T controller.
While the A2000 appears to be discontinued, I wonder if it will get a different replacement since it was sold as a different class as the NV1. That might be too optimistic, though.
Meanwhile, it looks like the WD SN550 250/500/1000 GB is being discontinued too, replaced by the SN570. The SN550 2TB is still staying put for now, but that’s because the SN570 2TB won’t be out for another few months.
While the A2000 appears to be discontinued, I wonder if it will get a different replacement since it was sold as a different class as the NV1. That might be too optimistic, though.
Meanwhile, it looks like the WD SN550 250/500/1000 GB is being discontinued too, replaced by the SN570. The SN550 2TB is still staying put for now, but that’s because the SN570 2TB won’t be out for another few months.
It's not just that, however. The NV1 is explicitly a parts-bin job. Kingston says it will use whatever components happen to be cheapest at the time to make it - controllers, NAND, whatever.
Kingston Introduces NV1 Entry-Level NVMe SSD
So, relying on any kind of review of the drive (or recommendation by a buddy) is useless, because you might get a whole different bunch of parts that Kingston happened to find when yours was made.
This is particularly problematic for a situation like retrofitting Macs, because we know that not all NVMe drives play well with Macs, and the NV1 is really not just one drive but really a whole kaleidoscope of them.
So, NV1 seems to be one to stay away from.
Technically you are right, but AFAIK, there are currently only two controllers used, one being the Phison, and the other being Silicon Motion. And they only use new name brand flash chips. And if you go with the 2 TB model you’ll be getting Phison E13T with QLC, which is the same as the Crucial P2 and Seagate Q5. What this means is that the 2TB NV1 is potentially a decent low power option, if extended write performance is not a major concern.It's not just that, however. The NV1 is explicitly a parts-bin job. Kingston says it will use whatever components happen to be cheapest at the time to make it - controllers, NAND, whatever.
Kingston Introduces NV1 Entry-Level NVMe SSD
www.anandtech.com
So, relying on any kind of review of the drive (or recommendation by a buddy) is useless, because you might get a whole different bunch of parts that Kingston happened to find when yours was made.
This is particularly problematic for a situation like retrofitting Macs, because we know that not all NVMe drives play well with Macs, and the NV1 is really not just one drive but really a whole kaleidoscope of them.
So, NV1 seems to be one to stay away from.
This is in contrast to cheap Chinese brands which have been known to use reclaimed flash from defective SSDs.
The point it's useful to know what's out there to make informed purchase decisions. Regarding the Phison E13T + 2 TB QLC I mentioned earlier, here in Canada:
Crucial P2: CA$269.99 at Amazon. CA$279.99 at Newegg.
Seagate Q5: CA$249.98 at Newegg. Not available at Amazon.
Kingston NV1: CA$199.99 on sale at Newegg. Not available at Amazon.
Now it's possible that the specs may change going forward, but the same is true already with the Crucial P2. At least with Seagate you know up front it's going to be a QLC drive, but I don't think they specify the controller. The same is true with lots of models out there, although with WD and Samsung you get their in-house controllers.
I may end up just buying a WD SN550 2 TB though since it has superior extended write speed characteristics to the Phison E13T SSDs, with low maximum power consumption. I was originally going to buy a 2 TB drive with the idea that I might end up using it in a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air, but realistically I probably won't do that. I'm going to stick with OEM Apple SSDs for now to avoid all the headaches since we don't need a TB or whatever in our laptops. So, this will likely just be used either in a Mac mini or an external enclosure, and for the latter, having a low maximum power usage is preferred for USB powered drives. The good thing about the WD SN550 is that even with very large writes, speeds do not drop significantly, whereas the Phison E13T drives' write speeds drop into the basement, at less than 100 MB/s.
Actually, it turns out the WD SN550 (red) even does much better than the Kingston A2000 (light green) in this regard, and also gives the Adata XPG SX8200 Pro (dark green) a good run for its money:
BTW, I currently have a WD SN550 500 GB in my Mac mini, and it works great with this machine.
Installed a Sabrent Rocket 256 in my MacBookAir6,2 and had no issues for the last few months. Recently it'll freeze and then restart, usually 5-10 mins after waking. Might have been triggered by the latest Big Sur Update? Any ideas on how to fix?
MacOS version: macOS 11.6.2 (20G314)
Mac: MacBookAir6,2
Processor: Intel Core i5 1.3 GHz
Boot ROM Version: 432.60.3.0.0
SSD: Sabrent Rocket 256GB (firmware version: RKT343.4) + Sintec adapter
pmset -g output https://pastebin.com/iA3Bzegk
latest .panic file https://pastebin.com/hCdxHMtB
I'm guessing I might have to disable sleep and hibernate but that's frustrating given I've had no issues with it till now.
MacOS version: macOS 11.6.2 (20G314)
Mac: MacBookAir6,2
Processor: Intel Core i5 1.3 GHz
Boot ROM Version: 432.60.3.0.0
SSD: Sabrent Rocket 256GB (firmware version: RKT343.4) + Sintec adapter
pmset -g output https://pastebin.com/iA3Bzegk
latest .panic file https://pastebin.com/hCdxHMtB
I'm guessing I might have to disable sleep and hibernate but that's frustrating given I've had no issues with it till now.
Attachments
I’m looking to Repurpose my Apple factory-installed PCIe 512GB SSD into an external. Any enclosure suggestions that are not OWC? Thanks
So far as I can tell, they're all Chinese and they're all expensive (relative to a generic NVMe enclosure, which you can get for < $20 in the US). Even on Ali Express you can't find one for less than about $60 - not sure why. Acasis makes one, there's a no-name that's widely for sale, etc. On US Amazon and Ebay they're about $100 or more. Not sure why. The ones for the 2012 (SATA-based) Apple drives are more like $30.
acasis-apple-ssd-enclosure - Buy acasis-apple-ssd-enclosure with free shipping on AliExpress
Quality acasis-apple-ssd-enclosure with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress
Example of a generic no-name:
78.0US $ |For Apple Macbook Air Pro Retina 2013 2014 2015 /2016 Hard Disk Box Usb3.0 To Mac Ssd Case Enclosure A1466 A1465 A1398 A1502 - Portable Solid State Drives - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
Sintech has one - as usual, when looking at their stuff, everything seems to me to be a bit opaque:
2013-2014 Macbook A1465 1466 A1398 A1502 SSD USB 3.0 External Ca [PA-2013-USB3380C] - $79.99 : Sintech Eshop!, The World of PC Adapter Card
Sintech Eshop! 2013-2014 Macbook A1465 1466 A1398 A1502 SSD USB 3.0 External Ca [PA-2013-USB3380C] -
eshop.sintech.cn
Might be the same as this one on Ali Express:
USB3.0 SSD Enclosure for 2013 2014 2015 apple MacBook Air Pro Retina SSD Adapter A1465 A1466 win10 - AliExpress 7
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
Here's the Amazon listing for the Sintech, which contains more info on it:
Sintech USB 3.2 Type C External Case, Compatible for 28Pin SSD from MacBook Air(Mid 2013-2016) and MacBook PRO(Late 2013 - Mid 2015),Support nVME SSD if with M.2 Card ST-NGFF2013
PA-2013U3-C is 2013-2015 MACBOOK AIR/PRO Retina ssd SSD to USB adapter, it is allowed to use SSD From Macbook Air(Mid 2013 -2016) And Macbook PRO(Late 2013 - Mid 2015) module through USB3.0 port on your desktop or laptop. Function: 1.Allows user to use SSD from 2013-2015 Macbook SSD to USB3.0 por...
smile.amazon.com
Huh. Both the Acasis and the OWC are on sale at (US) Amazon now. Not a big sale - but the Acasis is $90 and the OWC is $99. I don't recall them being that low before (not that they're what I would call reasonable).
I've been using the Sintech case for more than a year and it is very reliable.
It was much more expensive when I bought it but it's made of metal, includes cable and has a blue status LED.
Here's the Amazon listing for the Sintech, which contains more info on it:
Sintech USB 3.2 Type C External Case, Compatible for 28Pin SSD from MacBook Air(Mid 2013-2016) and MacBook PRO(Late 2013 - Mid 2015),Support nVME SSD if with M.2 Card ST-NGFF2013
PA-2013U3-C is 2013-2015 MACBOOK AIR/PRO Retina ssd SSD to USB adapter, it is allowed to use SSD From Macbook Air(Mid 2013 -2016) And Macbook PRO(Late 2013 - Mid 2015) module through USB3.0 port on your desktop or laptop. Function: 1.Allows user to use SSD from 2013-2015 Macbook SSD to USB3.0 por...smile.amazon.com
It was much more expensive when I bought it but it's made of metal, includes cable and has a blue status LED.
This update post to say that energy settings seem to be working correctly for the following:
MBP 11,1 13" i7 16gb ram, Big Sur 11.6.2
idle 0.05 with a Hynix P31 2TB with ssdpmenabler set (not nvmefix).
Question: wondering if I shall also install lilu/nvmefix. Would that improve idle power even more?
- below values for pmset -b (battery) (standby hibernate after 10 mins under 75%, 15mins over 75% battery cap)
- "Handoff" enabled, powernap disabled for battery usage. Seems that is the cause for "sleep prevented by sharingd" but sleep and standby seem to work anyway.
--> When the battery is completely drained, it correctly turns off (standby I believe) and restores the exact status. No other error messages. Seems to be correctly working.
--> with these settings, I see the hibernatefile being last modified 12 mins (I guess 2min displaysleep + 10min standbydelay when lower than 75% of battery).
--> Works with open and closed lid.
standbydelaylow 600
standby 1
halfdim 1
hibernatefile /var/vm/sleepimage
powernap 0
gpuswitch 2
disksleep 5
standbydelayhigh 900
sleep 1 (sleep prevented by sharingd)
autopoweroffdelay 259200
hibernatemode 3
autopoweroff 1
ttyskeepawake 1
displaysleep 2
highstandbythreshold 75
acwake 0
lidwake 1
MBP 11,1 13" i7 16gb ram, Big Sur 11.6.2
idle 0.05 with a Hynix P31 2TB with ssdpmenabler set (not nvmefix).
Question: wondering if I shall also install lilu/nvmefix. Would that improve idle power even more?
- below values for pmset -b (battery) (standby hibernate after 10 mins under 75%, 15mins over 75% battery cap)
- "Handoff" enabled, powernap disabled for battery usage. Seems that is the cause for "sleep prevented by sharingd" but sleep and standby seem to work anyway.
--> When the battery is completely drained, it correctly turns off (standby I believe) and restores the exact status. No other error messages. Seems to be correctly working.
--> with these settings, I see the hibernatefile being last modified 12 mins (I guess 2min displaysleep + 10min standbydelay when lower than 75% of battery).
--> Works with open and closed lid.
standbydelaylow 600
standby 1
halfdim 1
hibernatefile /var/vm/sleepimage
powernap 0
gpuswitch 2
disksleep 5
standbydelayhigh 900
sleep 1 (sleep prevented by sharingd)
autopoweroffdelay 259200
hibernatemode 3
autopoweroff 1
ttyskeepawake 1
displaysleep 2
highstandbythreshold 75
acwake 0
lidwake 1
Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown. One would imagine something like this would be readily available and way cheaper. This is maddness. I'll just sell it to someone.So far as I can tell, they're all Chinese and they're all expensive (relative to a generic NVMe enclosure, which you can get for < $20 in the US). Even on Ali Express you can't find one for less than about $60 - not sure why. Acasis makes one, there's a no-name that's widely for sale, etc. On US Amazon and Ebay they're about $100 or more. Not sure why. The ones for the 2012 (SATA-based) Apple drives are more like $30.
acasis-apple-ssd-enclosure - Buy acasis-apple-ssd-enclosure with free shipping on AliExpress
Quality acasis-apple-ssd-enclosure with free worldwide shipping on AliExpresswww.aliexpress.com
Example of a generic no-name:
78.0US $ |For Apple Macbook Air Pro Retina 2013 2014 2015 /2016 Hard Disk Box Usb3.0 To Mac Ssd Case Enclosure A1466 A1465 A1398 A1502 - Portable Solid State Drives - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.comwww.aliexpress.com
Sintech has one - as usual, when looking at their stuff, everything seems to me to be a bit opaque:
2013-2014 Macbook A1465 1466 A1398 A1502 SSD USB 3.0 External Ca [PA-2013-USB3380C] - $79.99 : Sintech Eshop!, The World of PC Adapter Card
Sintech Eshop! 2013-2014 Macbook A1465 1466 A1398 A1502 SSD USB 3.0 External Ca [PA-2013-USB3380C] -eshop.sintech.cn
Might be the same as this one on Ali Express:
USB3.0 SSD Enclosure for 2013 2014 2015 apple MacBook Air Pro Retina SSD Adapter A1465 A1466 win10 - AliExpress 7
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.comwww.aliexpress.com
Here's the Amazon listing for the Sintech, which contains more info on it:
Sintech USB 3.2 Type C External Case, Compatible for 28Pin SSD from MacBook Air(Mid 2013-2016) and MacBook PRO(Late 2013 - Mid 2015),Support nVME SSD if with M.2 Card ST-NGFF2013
PA-2013U3-C is 2013-2015 MACBOOK AIR/PRO Retina ssd SSD to USB adapter, it is allowed to use SSD From Macbook Air(Mid 2013 -2016) And Macbook PRO(Late 2013 - Mid 2015) module through USB3.0 port on your desktop or laptop. Function: 1.Allows user to use SSD from 2013-2015 Macbook SSD to USB3.0 por...smile.amazon.com
Huh. Both the Acasis and the OWC are on sale at (US) Amazon now. Not a big sale - but the Acasis is $90 and the OWC is $99. I don't recall them being that low before (not that they're what I would call reasonable).
The one consideration is that if you're still getting MacOS upgrades, you may need to have an original drive on hand for that purpose.
There are a few, one of which is Acasis, but right now, not really practical (for me) cost-wise to house my old 500GB SSD, as the ones for 2013-1016 are quite on the expensive side.
It's not just that, however. The NV1 is explicitly a parts-bin job. Kingston says it will use whatever components happen to be cheapest at the time to make it - controllers, NAND, whatever.
Kingston Introduces NV1 Entry-Level NVMe SSD
So, relying on any kind of review of the drive (or recommendation by a buddy) is useless, because you might get a whole different bunch of parts that Kingston happened to find when yours was made.
This is particularly problematic for a situation like retrofitting Macs, because we know that not all NVMe drives play well with Macs, and the NV1 is really not just one drive but really a whole kaleidoscope of them.
So, NV1 seems to be one to stay away from.
Care to share where you got that information? I'd like to check it. I'm down choosing between the P2 and the A2000 for my enclosure.
I'm probably gonna get a Western Digital SN550 (or maybe SN570) for my external USB enclosure. It has much better power utilization characteristics than the A2000, and much better extended write performance than the P2, and it's cheaper than the P2 as well. (The A2000 was moot for me though since it doesn't come in a 2 TB size.) The SN550 is no good for MacBooks though.
Plus the A2000 may have been discontinued. All of a sudden Amazon.ca has stopped selling it.
As for the Kingston NV1, Kingston has told tech sites that they will not provide specific specs for it, since it may change. AnandTech reports though that they are generally using the Phison E13T that is found in the Crucial P2, and the Silicon Motion SM2263XT that is found in the Lexar NM610. The SM2263XT is also a relatively low power controller like the E13T.
Note though you can actually tell which one it is without opening the package. The circuit boards are different, and you can see through the plastic packaging which one it is.
Actually now that I think about it, I'd consider the NV1 2 TB if it's significantly cheaper than the SN550 2 TB, but currently the NV1 is sold out on Amazon.ca.
EDIT:
Here we go. Left is Silicon Motion. Right is Phison:
Last edited:
The SN550 is a bit more expensive locally than the P2 where I am at, and I'm not to sure about WD's reliability as well (high capacity HDD backups failed a couple of times, Seagate HDDs fared better, but I amy be comparing apples and oranges SSD-wise). That's why I went for the A2000 to begin with.
I'll primarily be using it as storage, and maybe an external scratch disk (if it fares well).
I've sometimes had bad results with HDs from Maxtor, Seagate, Western Digital, and Hitachi, etc. so it's hard to gauge which is better. But I doubt that's very important since it's totally different technology anyway.
Here right now the pricing is P2 > SN550 > NV1 but it looks like these drives sold well over Xmas since a lot of stores and Amazon are sold out of one or more of them.
Anyways the good news for me is it turns out the Orico M2PV-C3 NVMe enclosure that arrived last week that I bought for cheap off AliExpress has a Realtek RTL9210 chipset. A lot of M1 Mac owners are reporting horrible results with the JMicron based enclosures, which is most enclosures. It seems the JMicron runs hotter and on macOS is kinda buggy.
Interesting. I was looking through the table of drives on the first page, and one of the drives caught my eye, the Patriot P300:
That table lists the P300 as using the Phison E13T, but that drive is like the Kingston NV1 and isn't restricted to that one controller. In fact there are at least two controllers, one being the Phison E13T, and one being the Silicon Motion SM2263XT, just like the Kingston NV1.
www.anandtech.com
For the US market, Patriot offers P300 SSDs on blue PCBs based on the Phison PS5013-E13T controller, whereas for other markets the company rolled out P300 drives on black PCBs powered by the Silicon Motion SM2263XT chip. It is noteworthy that earlier this year the company implied at a meeting that Phison-powered drives might also show up on non-US markets.
That table lists the P300 as using the Phison E13T, but that drive is like the Kingston NV1 and isn't restricted to that one controller. In fact there are at least two controllers, one being the Phison E13T, and one being the Silicon Motion SM2263XT, just like the Kingston NV1.
Patriot Releases Cheap P300 M.2 PCIe SSDs: Two Products, Same Name
For the US market, Patriot offers P300 SSDs on blue PCBs based on the Phison PS5013-E13T controller, whereas for other markets the company rolled out P300 drives on black PCBs powered by the Silicon Motion SM2263XT chip. It is noteworthy that earlier this year the company implied at a meeting that Phison-powered drives might also show up on non-US markets.
That's the same one I have (in red), and I got it cheapest at less than $20. Works well out of the box.
Mine looks like this:That's the same one I have (in red), and I got it cheapest at less than $20. Works well out of the box.
