USB-A

[johnmacward]

I'll say exactly the same as so many others here after having read many of the OP's posts.

When USB came out it was supposed to be a standardised cheap connector that was highly universal and maybe due in part to the fact that the electronics industry came up with it (with their differing pressures of making something cheap and profitable), it ended up in a fragmented mess very quickly. There was USB 2, USB 3 SuperSpeed, USB mini A and B, Type 2.0 connectors, Type 3 connectors...

Quickly it became a joke. This supposedly universal connector was anything but universal anymore, and for a range of devices at home during the 2000's, 2010's you could have 4 to 6 different USB connector types, an utterly ridiculous situation.

USB-C has utterly revolutionised this situation by providing one decent connector type, that is ridiculously fast, utterly reversible in every way (no A and B end), very compact and space saving and capable of delivering serious amounts of charging power (up to 140W in some future standards). Getting rid of the mess of USB 1, 2 and 3 cables types quickly SHOULD be a priority of the industry to push the single universal standard of USB-C meaning we can finally use one single cable for everything that needs a cable at home and at work. I would gladly accept adapters if I could get rid of the plethora of old cables that get used for just one device. Just like the electrical sockets in our houses, apartments, offices, workplaces, libraries etc, they are all standardised and hence we just grab a charger and go. It would be great if all the cables that actually plugged into our devices were the same too.

 

[johnmacward]

And this is an excellent thing. The fundamental electrical socket standard in our homes in the US haven’t changed in what … since 1940? Probably earlier. I think usb-a as a standard is a good thing. Imagine if we changed the electrical socket standard every 20 or 30 years. Heads would explode 🤯. I’m not saying no to usbc or innovation rather I’m saying yes to usba as a standard to keep.

Your post proves our point, power sockets haven't changed every 20 to 30 years, thank goodness, but USB has changed every 8 to 10 and it's been a nightmare. Here is USB's evolution and its different types depending on the device you plugged into. Growing up with tech in the 2000's, 2010's you undoubtedly would have every single type of these cables for one or another device and that's an absolute joke. If you rummaged in a drawer for a cable and found the A end, you'd know the pain when you found the other end and it wasn't what you were looking for. This was crap.

So now, lets keep USB-A and have USB-C (and hey, I have a weird scanner from 2002, we should probably keep USB-Type B too - the one in the middle).

Or we could recognise this for the mess that it is, and dump this legacy stuff that is so dated, inefficient and finally stick with something that has matured wonderfully into a super simple, reliable, high powered and fast connector that covers 99% of use-cases. We could then recycle all our old cables and make use of that aluminium and copper for making new USB-C cables.

For sure if you still have an old device that uses USB-A and its still functional for you, then hold on to that cable. But please stop justifying the retention of something that is objectively worse than its modern counterpart.

Apple are right to dump this legacy thing for the simplicity of USB-C, again there's no doubt their thinking about this from a simplicity and even aesthetic standpoint. When you grab a cable these days, you no longer ask which one do I grab? Because there is ONE that can do everything.

Here's a comparison of legacy USB to USB-C and its incredibly clear who wins.

Cable type	Orientation	Size	Power delivery	Speed	Truly universal / interoperable
USB-A	Keyed one way with end being always different (USB-B, Mini etc)	Large	7.5W at 5V	10Gbps (USB 3.2)	No
USB-C	No orientation even for ends of cable - use any end in any orientation	Small	140W at 20V	40Gbps (Thunderbolt 3 and 4)	Yes

Probably because he already owns it and it works - just like the rest of us. Its so dang easy for folks to spend other peoples money and question why you arn't using technology X - effectively shaming you into buying something newer when the reality is what you already have works just fine. I completely disagree with this type of advice. Instead continue to use the usba devices we all own and use and take the money you saved from not listening to crappy advice and buy apple stock with it instead.

Nobody is being shamed, the issue is with USB-A proponents justifying manufacturers keeping around an outdated and objectively worse connector type meaning there will be a continued fragmentation of products that have both USB-A and USB-C ports and meaning that we'll still have a problem with having a plethora of ridiculous cables in our cars, in our drawers, at our workplaces just to satisfy every devices needs - instead of just having one cable, USB-C, that does EVERYTHING that USB-A does but much better. It's utterly wasteful, confusing and pointless and USB-A proponents are not really thinking far into the future, or about anyone else but just for their particular individual needs right now. Your old devices CAN continue to function with adapters and hubs. But old devices with outdated and now useless connectors shouldn't define much better future connectors that CAN actually be universal for everything. You will not complain about the day when you have JUST USB-C cables at home and at work and no matter what device you have you can power it and make it work.

 

[johnmacward]

I think the driving force for changing everything to USB-C will be the EU regulations. It also makes sense; how many times have you tried to plug in USB-A and it doesn't go in, so you flip it around and it still won't go in, then you flip it back to the first side and it finally goes in? EVERYONE has done this many, many times, which was part of the driving force to initially come up with a reversible connector. Unfortunately many manufacturers are slow to update existing product lines and manufacturing facilities or just want to burn through stockpiled old components -- wherever they can cut costs and maximize profit, they will.

I think you nail it. Profits drive this, from the legacy "boring" manufacturers, not really the want to push a better high quality connector type. It's a mixture of manufacturers having component stock to get rid of, and possibly the fact that they have more invested in plugging USB-A ports into boards than they have USB-C and don't want to make that investment if the others aren't doing it. Possibly also because USB-C is potentially a more expensive overall connector type with its greater number of pins in a smaller package and hence less tolerance for manufacturing errors. In others words, they'd be forced to actually make decent products for once.

 

[Altis]

I'll say exactly the same as so many others here after having read many of the OP's posts.

When USB came out it was supposed to be a standardised cheap connector that was highly universal and maybe due in part to the fact that the electronics industry came up with it (with their differing pressures of making something cheap and profitable), it ended up in a fragmented mess very quickly. There was USB 2, USB 3 SuperSpeed, USB mini A and B, Type 2.0 connectors, Type 3 connectors...
...
Quickly it became a joke. This supposedly universal connector was anything but universal anymore, and for a range of devices at home during the 2000's, 2010's you could have 4 to 6 different USB connector types, an utterly ridiculous situation.

USB-C has utterly revolutionised this situation by providing one decent connector type, that is ridiculously fast, utterly reversible in every way (no A and B end), very compact and space saving and capable of delivering serious amounts of charging power (up to 140W in some future standards). Getting rid of the mess of USB 1, 2 and 3 cables types quickly SHOULD be a priority of the industry to push the single universal standard of USB-C meaning we can finally use one single cable for everything that needs a cable at home and at work. I would gladly accept adapters if I could get rid of the plethora of old cables that get used for just one device. Just like the electrical sockets in our houses, apartments, offices, workplaces, libraries etc, they are all standardised and hence we just grab a charger and go. It would be great if all the cables that actually plugged into our devices were the same too.

I think you're confusing the physical connector with the protocol -- USB-C aren't always 40 Gb/s, like the front of the Mac Mini are only 10 Gb/s and the iPhone 16 USB-C is only USB 2 speed.

The irony is Type-C is just another iteration in the list. They could have standardized both ends with mini or micro USB, but they didn't. All those cables you speak of generally terminate with USB-A on one end since that's the end that connects to a computer or power block. Type-C finally works well on both ends, so it's great we're seeing it on computers. But desktop computers especially often need to connect to all kinds of other things, which is why it's handy to still leave some USB-A onboard until the transition is further along. If you say just use adapters or cables, well that's exactly the mess you were trying to avoid And you could do it either way.

I've been thinking about all the electronics I've bought in the last year or two. The only one that I recall came with a USB-C to USB-C cable is the the Samsung T7 SSD, but it also came with a USB-C to USB-A cable. And the Dell monitor came with one but it came with a bunch of cables.

All my USB-C devices like Sony A7RV, a6700, GoPro, lenses, Godox flashes (including a V100s on pre-order that's a brand new model) are great but they all came with USB-A to USB-C cables, iirc. Datacolor Spyder X color calibrator is USB-A. Monitor light bar is powered by USB-A. Motorcycle heated gear has battery with USB-A port (uses DC barrel plug for heat). Any time we rent a car it's had USB-A but not C. Razer Deathadder V3 mouse, Brother printer, thumb drives, drawing tablet, MIDI interface, xD card reader: Type A. Wall outlets with USB are type A 99% of the time. Almost anything that comes with a USB power brick like my cat water fountains are Type-A.

I could go on forever -- it sure is everywhere still for something declared to be 'obsolete' and a 'legacy' port. The beauty of USB-A is the 'universal' part holds true. Removing the port that connects to most devices out there creates an unhelpful obstacle for a lot of people, and makes no difference to the rest. Not the end of the world either way but still handy to have for many desktop users.

 

[cyanite]

OP, you are thinking like a pure customer among a sea of fans who often put the corp BEFORE a fellow consumer questioning stuff like this.

Sure, pal. Just because other people don't see this as a meaningful problem doesn't make them "fans" necessarily. People have different priorities. I know it's great when we can find simple explanations for people disagreeing with us (fans, shills, foreign agents, bots etc.), but reality doesn't always work like that.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

A 1940s computer was a couple thousand sq. ft. and weighed 300 tons. You know how much Mac mini weighs.

Unlike a house, computers are shrinking fast and every mm counts.

Using usba as a standard in no way stops innovation or shrinking of technology; rather is a statement towards broad compatibility and usefulness & convenience. Electrical sockets have evolved in their own ways yet the standard has not changed. Why? For the reasons stated above. That is my point - usba has been used for so long it is a standard plug whose size is a non issue for the vast majority of its applications. Now we all know Apple loves to get as small and skinny as they can and usbc certainly allows for that but at the cost of convenience and usability - something as simple and ubiquitous as a usba flash drive for example is now useless on its own. Standards have purpose and usba is one that should not have been dropped.

 

[theluggage]

Quickly it became a joke. This supposedly universal connector was anything but universal anymore, and for a range of devices at home during the 2000's, 2010's you could have 4 to 6 different USB connector types, an utterly ridiculous situation.

Over 20 years USB bandwidth went from 1.5 Mbps to 10 Gbps, and the USB A connector - the bit that plugs in to your computer, which is what we are talking about here - only changed once, for USB 3, and that retained backwards-compatibility by just adding an extra row of pins behind the original ones.

Where USB messed up was with the mini & micro connectors used in small peripherals and - particularly - phones (which kinda broke the host/peripheral model) - which is where USB-C was really needed (and where needing a 'break out box' dongle for data/video connections was unavoidable)... On full-sized laptops and deasktops it was a solution looking for a problem since for the vast majority of use cases it was only carrying the same USB 2/3 and DisplayPort signals as the so-called "legacy" connectors. Yet, bizarrely Apple pushed all-USB-C Macs while stubbornly refusing to roll it out to iDevices or even the Magic Peripherals until the EU forced their hand.

Interestingly, here's what we could have had for Thunderbolt (back when it was called Light Peak) - a USB 3-A connector with extra connections in the tongue (...optical in this case, although they could probably have been made electrical to save money) but the USB-IF wouldn't allowed it. Would have made much more sense to keep USB-A as a data connector and stuck with MiniDP/HDMI for displays rather than forcing two unrelated resources to use the same port...

Apple to Introduce Light Peak (High Speed Connection Technology) Soon?

Prototype Light Peak connector image from PCPro.co.uk CNet reports that Apple is expected to announce a "new high-speed connection...

www.macrumors.com

USB-C has utterly revolutionised this situation by providing one decent connector type, that is ridiculously fast, utterly reversible in every way (no A and B end)

One connector type... but multiple permutations of charge/USB-2-only, USB 3.2/DisplayPort, passive Thunderbolt, active Thunderbolt, optical cables multiplied by various maximum power capacities... and then ports which may support some or all of USB 2, USB 3.2 5Gbps, USB 3.2 10Gbps, USB4/Thunderbolt, DisplayPort Alt Mode, DisplayPort-over-USB4, analogue audio, various levels of power output, various levels of power input... (there was going to be HDMI alt mode just to add to the confusion but it never really took off) - all visually identical since USB-IF has never really enforced proper labelling.

If USB-C really had delivered "1 connector, 1 port, 1 cable" than that would have been something - sadly that fantasy didn't happen.

It wouldn't have been so bad if computers came with half-a-dozen TB4/5 ports with identical functionality - the problem is that they don't (well, short of the Studio Ultra or Mac Pro) but they don't because CPUs can't drive that many TB ports and/or the switching for DisplayPort, power etc. costs money - so we either get a mix of USB-C ports with different specs (e.g. the M4 Mini) or a reduced number of USB ports (e.g. M4 Pro Mini, iMac, all the MacBooks...)

Now, it's not the end of the world to stick USB C to A adapters in those extra USB-only type C ports on the Mini, but exactly the same functionality could have been provided with USB-A ports (and it wouldn't have been the end of the world to stick USB A-to-C adapters in them - they stick out less than C-to-A dongles). It's not like you can even cram more C connectors in the same space - the plugs may be smaller but USB-C adapters/wireless dongles/thumb drives etc. tend to be just as big - if not bigger - than their USB-A equivalents (which can fit electronics in the plug shaft) so they have to be spaced out.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Your post proves our point, power sockets haven't changed every 20 to 30 years, thank goodness, but USB has changed every 8 to 10 and it's been a nightmare. Here is USB's evolution and its different types depending on the device you plugged into. Growing up with tech in the 2000's, 2010's you undoubtedly would have every single type of these cables for one or another device and that's an absolute joke. If you rummaged in a drawer for a cable and found the A end, you'd know the pain when you found the other end and it wasn't what you were looking for. This was crap.

View attachment 2473096

So now, lets keep USB-A and have USB-C (and hey, I have a weird scanner from 2002, we should probably keep USB-Type B too - the one in the middle).

Or we could recognise this for the mess that it is, and dump this legacy stuff that is so dated, inefficient and finally stick with something that has matured wonderfully into a super simple, reliable, high powered and fast connector that covers 99% of use-cases. We could then recycle all our old cables and make use of that aluminium and copper for making new USB-C cables.

For sure if you still have an old device that uses USB-A and its still functional for you, then hold on to that cable. But please stop justifying the retention of something that is objectively worse than its modern counterpart.

Apple are right to dump this legacy thing for the simplicity of USB-C, again there's no doubt their thinking about this from a simplicity and even aesthetic standpoint. When you grab a cable these days, you no longer ask which one do I grab? Because there is ONE that can do everything.

Here's a comparison of legacy USB to USB-C and its incredibly clear who wins.

Cable type	Orientation	Size	Power delivery	Speed	Truly universal / interoperable
USB-A	Keyed one way with end being always different (USB-B, Mini etc)	Large	7.5W at 5V	10Gbps (USB 3.2)	No
USB-C	No orientation even for ends of cable - use any end in any orientation	Small	140W at 20V	40Gbps (Thunderbolt 3 and 4)	Yes

Nobody is being shamed, the issue is with USB-A proponents justifying manufacturers keeping around an outdated and objectively worse connector type meaning there will be a continued fragmentation of products that have both USB-A and USB-C ports and meaning that we'll still have a problem with having a plethora of ridiculous cables in our cars, in our drawers, at our workplaces just to satisfy every devices needs - instead of just having one cable, USB-C, that does EVERYTHING that USB-A does but much better. It's utterly wasteful, confusing and pointless and USB-A proponents are not really thinking far into the future, or about anyone else but just for their particular individual needs right now. Your old devices CAN continue to function with adapters and hubs. But old devices with outdated and now useless connectors shouldn't define much better future connectors that CAN actually be universal for everything. You will not complain about the day when you have JUST USB-C cables at home and at work and no matter what device you have you can power it and make it work.

Good argument. In other words usbc is not just yet another iteration (I was computing during the 2000s and have a drawer full of these usb variants a,mini,micro etc) but usbc is perhaps the point at which standardization should occur to the points you laid out specifically power delivery and data transfer. The size & keyed points I don’t necessarily agree with. Usba size is fine for most devices imo. I still would rather have seen usbc innovation wrapped into an evolution of the usba footprint simply for backwards compatibility which I don’t think is a bad thing at all in regards to ubiquitous usefulness. I think that’s the pain point for me. The physical foot print is there - usba and has been for 30+ years. I see your point of future proofing the technology to a *single* usbc standard however vs the plethora we had in the 2000s so investing in a bag of adapters is the way we with legacy devices will have to go. Thanks for the counter argument.

 

[hagjohn]

Yeah well it hasn't died. Even newly built apartment buildings now incorporate USB A ports in their plugin connections. And for me I have Studios and I use the USB A to USB B cable from my machine to my integrated amplifier for my high-end sound system. Plus for thumb drives.

LOL. Good luck charging your USB-C devices with that USB-A. U will need an adapter. I have not purchased anything in the past 5 years that is USB-A (if I can help it). Hell, even my external Time Machine drive is thunderbolt. I do not buy thumb drives but if I did, I would buy the ones with both.

 

[drrich2]

USB-C has utterly revolutionised this situation by providing one decent connector type

That it did, and there's no right side up.

Getting rid of the mess of USB 1, 2 and 3 cables types quickly SHOULD be a priority of the industry to push the single universal standard of USB-C meaning we can finally use one single cable for everything that needs a cable at home and at work.

One connector type... but multiple permutations of charge/USB-2-only, USB 3.2/DisplayPort, passive Thunderbolt, active Thunderbolt, optical cables multiplied by various maximum power capacities... and then ports which may support some or all of USB 2, USB 3.2 5Gbps, USB 3.2 10Gbps, USB4/Thunderbolt, DisplayPort Alt Mode, DisplayPort-over-USB4, analogue audio, various levels of power output, various levels of power input... (there was going to be HDMI alt mode just to add to the confusion but it never really took off) - all visually identical since USB-IF has never really enforced proper labelling.

If USB-C really had delivered "1 connector, 1 port, 1 cable" than that would have been something - sadly that fantasy didn't happen.

There's Thunderbolt 3, 4 and 5 to think about. I've read elsewhere TB 3 is preferred for external SSDs and TB 4 for hubs (can't recall the reasoning), TB3 can do up to 40 speed but that's not required like it is with 4, you need a Thunderbolt cable and they're not universal (what cable lengths are supported can be a concern), there's USB4 and USB4 2.0 (and how much they should be assumed to work like a given version of TB under a different label isn't always clear), and then what USB-C cables are good for what data and/or charging rates...

When I buy a USB-C gadget, I aim to use the cable that came with it because I don't know whether a random USB-C cable from my old cable pile will work, or work fully, etc...

At least there's a little symbol beside Thunderbolt ports on the device.

Probably the best practical solution is to buy several new USB-C cables rated for high data and charging throughput (not cheap), but even that's no guarantee. IIRC, when I tried to charge a rechargeable powerful flashlight by USB-C, it wanted the small, thin USB-C cable that came with it, and didn't charge off the larger, thicker one I use to charge my notebook and iPad Pro.

And then there's the fun of varied charger capacity, when you realize that USB-C charger you use for your phone doesn't seem to do anything for your notebook because it doesn't deliver enough power.

I do like the universal connector with USB-C, smaller, no nightside up, that's good. But the rest is every bit the confusing mess the USB-A port ecosystem is.

 

[drrich2]

It is a shame that people can't figure out the advantages of USB-C over A.

What 'the' advantages are varies widely person-to-person, as answers in this thread show. Some people don't need USB-A, or do so minimally, so to them USB-A ports are (nearly) all pain, no gain.

Some people have a number of USB-A peripherals which work fine as-is, and plugging directly into the computer is a convenience and at least minor cost savings vs. buying a dock, hub or converter cables or messing with adapters.

Everyone values their own convenience.

Just because some else's use case and personal preferences line up with favoring a mixed USB-C/USB-A port configuration over an all USB-C port configuration doesn't mean they 'can't figure out' the advantages to someone else. But that's not what matters anyway. What matters are the advantages to themselves.

 

[johnmacward]

I think you're confusing the physical connector with the protocol -- USB-C aren't always 40 Gb/s, like the front of the Mac Mini are only 10 Gb/s and the iPhone 16 USB-C is only USB 2 speed.

No, don't worry, I'm not confusing the protocol with the connector, I'm talking about its potential in comparison to USB-A type cables which will never attain the speeds or power of USB-C and because they're no longer being developed they will always be worse than anything USB-C is.

I come from a perspective of ease-of-use as well and this is where USB-C absolutely shines, and USB-old is a disaster. With USB-C it doesn't matter what end of the cable you use OR what orientation, you get it right every time. This makes beginners experiences with computer cabling enormously simpler and no more calls like "It's your Ma here, I'm trying to find a cable to plug in the printer to print out some recipes but every cable I've found doesn't seem to be the right one, they fit in the computer but the other end is always wrong, what do I need ?". Can you imagine describing what type a USB type B shape is like so that in the famous drawer that contains 15 USB cables of different types, she can find the right one ? Is the printer actually type B or maybe it uses Mini or Micro to save money, so I have to ask what it looks like and neither me nor her are any the wiser. However, USB-C eliminates that instantly, and the user will find one cable type for ALL devices to be a very simple thing to understand.

It's a damn joke and it realistically should never have been designed like this in the first place. I've no evidence for it but the constantly changing standards could have been intentional ways to push sales of new devices, rendering old style connectors obsolete or too slow compared to connectors of the time. Hence why I believe the industry should be QUICKLY and LAWFULLY forced to adopt this standard everywhere, AND to make high quality cheap adapters easily available for those who can make older hardware last longer. I do believe in using government for the good of ourselves, not just business and industry groups who tend to do things to make money (including making half-assed attempts at standards such as USB).

 

[Fishrrman]

USB-a
Ain't goin' away
Will still be sold
15 years from today.
(Burma Shave)

 

[drrich2]

I do believe in using government for the good of ourselves

One problem with that mindset is that other people with different priorities about what's good for us (whether we agree or not) may enact coercive dictates in other areas of our lives that you don't agree with. It's easy to see the potential for what one deems good and overlook the Law of Unintended Consequences. A government that presumes to dictate what kind of connector a private company in a free market is 'allowed' to make does not sound like a good direction to take. There are reasons the United States and European Union are culturally distinct.

And where does this stop? Once the government starts dictating how private businesses can design products, it's slippery slope time.

If you've ever been in a setting heavily regulated by government (e.g.: healthcare), you may have 2nd thoughts about a big surge in empowering government agency bureaucrats to dictate how others are allowed to operate.

This makes beginners experiences with computer cabling enormously simpler and no more calls like "It's your Ma here, I'm trying to find a cable to plug in the printer...

Enormously? Someone as technologically unsophisticated as you describe likely won't be setting up that printer alone anyway. And won't have researched and chosen this particular printer. It's not impossible, but people like this tend to have a relative who does a little 'amateur I.T.' service and does the installation and connection.

And if Grandma can't figure out which end of an old school USB cable goes in the computer and which in the printer, some of this talk about USB-C to A converter cables and 'just put an adapter on it' might fly over her head, too.

Like when Grandma buys a wired keyboard and mouse combo. or one with a wireless unifying receiver (USB-A). Grandma may need a USB-A port more than anybody!

No, don't worry, I'm not confusing the protocol with the connector, I'm talking about its potential in comparison to USB-A type cables which will never attain the speeds or power of USB-C and because they're no longer being developed they will always be worse than anything USB-C is.

Another poster explained limitations such that we're not going to see systems with a lot of Thunderbolt ports where every USB-C port on it is TB. So in terms of that potential, for a long time to come there will still be variability - slower speed ports.

Even now, if you buy a multi-port device, dock, etc..., some USB-C ports are rated for 10 Gbps and some for 5 Gbps speed. Why not all 10? And even 5 Gbps is more than fast enough for many peripherals. My point is, that potential you speak of will not lead to the conformity utopia we might wish.

I come from a perspective of ease-of-use as well and this is where USB-C absolutely shines, and USB-old is a disaster. With USB-C it doesn't matter what end of the cable you use OR what orientation, you get it right every time.

It's funny. In its day, USB-A was seen as the wonderfully simplifying connector that replaced parallel and serial ports, etc..., making things easier across a range of peripheral types. And somehow this wonderful convenience became a 'disaster' because something came along with no right-side up and the end that plugs into some printers isn't shaped differently?

 

[Fishrrman]

Before USBc we had a bunch of differently-shaped USB cables that pretty much did the same thing.

After USBc we have a bunch of cables that look the same, but do different things...

 

[theluggage]

Can you imagine describing what type a USB type B shape is like so that in the famous drawer that contains 15 USB cables of different types, she can find the right one ?

Yes: "Use the one that fits in the socket". Humans are trained as babies to fit pegs into matching holes.

Of course, if you're dealing with the sort of person who took the lesson to be "anything fits if you hit it hard enough with the toy hammer" you're out of luck, but I've got news for you: those people will already have broken the USB-C socket by pushing a Lightning connector into the hole - or jammed the USB-C connector into the ethernet port - and you're gonna have to go round and show Mom which of the 3 printers shown in the print dialogue she should choose anyway. Still, you'll probably get a nice slice of cake for your trouble

However, USB-C eliminates that instantly, and the user will find one cable type for ALL devices to be a very simple thing to understand.

Is that a USB-C charge-only cable, USB-C 3.1 capable cable, passive Thunderbolt cable, active Thunderbolt cable or the fake $3 USB-C cable from TQPRTH corp. on Amazon that will let the magic smoke out? What power capacity? OK, if it's an old USB 2 printer then you're probably OK, but anything else - good luck!

(Thanks XKCD)

 

[theluggage]

There's Thunderbolt 3, 4 and 5 to think about. I've read elsewhere TB 3 is preferred for external SSDs and TB 4 for hubs (can't recall the reasoning),

The key difference between TB3 and TB4 peripherals is that TB3 peripheral controllers extract the PCIe component of Thunderbolt and use it to drive internal PCIe devices - & only offer a single "daisy-chain" TB port - whereas TB4/USB4 hubs/docks use the new USB4 features and are more like USB hubs that split the signal between multiple downstream TB4/USB4 ports. The basic Thunderbolt protocol that shifts data along the cables is the same in both cases. If you want to drive a PCIe device - such as a fast NVMe drive, a PCIe slot or an extra USB 3.2 controller, the TB3 "way" is better, whether the host is TB3 or TB4.

TB4 branded devices are "just" USB4 with a lot of the optional features of USB4 made compulsory.
TB5 is the same thing for USB4v2 - but since one of the improvements is PCIv4 I'd guess there will be TB5 peripheral controllers that supply PCIe lanes.

 

[cyanite]

I think there is a lot of complaining here and that people overlook the one major advantage of USB, regardless of what type of cable you use: that it falls back gracefully to older standards as supported by the host, device and cable.

Not all cables are the same, and this wouldn’t be possible since new speed standards evolve. It also wouldn’t be desirable since very high performance cables in one category, speed, tend to be short and bulky.

But not all hosts and devices are the same either, and this is obviously not possible as well. But we still have a single system that can support whatever both ends and the cable can do. This is a huge improvement from the past.

 

[Timpetus]

I don’t understand, if current products are coming with USB-A, why wouldn’t you want a port that it could plug into? Why would you want to use adapters?

Because this mindset is going to make them continue coming with USB-A until 2050. Someone has to push things forward so we can finally convert fully to USB-C. I've been doing it since I bought my 2016 MBP, and it's great. Just buy a few USB-C to A cables or a hub with USB-A ports for legacy devices that you can't replace and you're all set. Going forward, I will always try to buy only USB-C/TB devices if at all possible, because it's just a better port.

 

[smirking]

I still would rather have seen usbc innovation wrapped into an evolution of the usba footprint simply for backwards compatibility which I don’t think is a bad thing at all in regards to ubiquitous usefulness.

That would have just furthered the ambiguity problem that @johnmacward was describing instead of working to resolve it. USB-A only delivers power in one direction and one of the features of USB-C is that it's bi-directional.

They could of course update them so they could carry power in both directions, but that would only exacerbate the confusion because now you don't just have to make sure your origin and termination ports are the right shape, you also have to separately account for the direction of the cable.

 

[theluggage]

They could of course update them so they could carry power in both directions, but that would be infuriating because your average person would have no idea which ones were 1 directional and which ones were bidirectional.

I'm not sure what the "problem" is supposed to be with unidirectional cables and different plugs for source and sync (some of the type B designs could be improved, of course) - I don't recall people ever complaining about that aspect of either USB or Lightning, even with phones/tablets which could be both.

Yet most TB4 hubs have one port designated as "computer" and 3 other ports as "downstream"... so the cable may be bidirectional but the ports aren't!

If USB-C had actually solved all of the problems it claims to solve then it would have been the best thing since unsliced bread - but it doesn't, it just re-arranges them into exciting new problems.

 

[drrich2]

The key difference between TB3 and TB4 peripherals is that TB3 peripheral controllers extract the PCIe component of Thunderbolt and use it to drive internal PCIe devices - & only offer a single "daisy-chain" TB port - whereas TB4/USB4 hubs/docks use the new USB4 features and are more like USB hubs that split the signal between multiple downstream TB4/USB4 ports. The basic Thunderbolt protocol that shifts data along the cables is the same in both cases. If you want to drive a PCIe device - such as a fast NVMe drive, a PCIe slot or an extra USB 3.2 controller, the TB3 "way" is better, whether the host is TB3 or TB4.

Thanks. You explained it to me; I wish you could understand it for me, too, since my brain function shorts out trying to grasp it.

If it were just a matter of TB3 being more of a linear chain (without branching) the TB4 better at branching (hence a hub or dock would be TB4), that I could get. But CalDigit had a TB3 dock (the TS3) before their TB4 TS4 model. So Thunderbolt 4 would be preferable for a device chain that forks.

I knew external SSDs tended to be TB3, not 4, but it's my understanding USB4 has also become an option, which I equate with TB4. And now I'm dizzy again...

If an external SSD were TB4 instead of 3, how would it be worse off?

Because this mindset is going to make them continue coming with USB-A until 2050. Someone has to push things forward so we can finally convert fully to USB-C.

I get your point, but some of us don't mind them continuing with USB-A way into the future, and no, there's not imperative to push things to a fully USB-C conversion. I get that it's a preference and there are some benefits, and specific use cases (e.g.: ultrabook type notebooks) where it makes since.

 

[haddy]

LOL. Good luck charging your USB-C devices with that USB-A. U will need an adapter.

The only USB-C devices we have are our iPhones and they are all charged on three in one magnetic stands that plug into the electrical sockets. We do have one Apple Watch charger which has a USB-A connection.

Also, I don't know about American airline companies but Air New Zealand and Qantas only provide USB-A connections.

USB-C is of no use to me in that I use only the TB ports in my Studio ultras for external NVMe - M.2 SSDs for storage and an external startup disk. Finally, as I have posted, I have a very very expensive USB-A to USB-B data cable for my sound system.

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[Altis]

Because this mindset is going to make them continue coming with USB-A until 2050. Someone has to push things forward so we can finally convert fully to USB-C. I've been doing it since I bought my 2016 MBP, and it's great. Just buy a few USB-C to A cables or a hub with USB-A ports for legacy devices that you can't replace and you're all set. Going forward, I will always try to buy only USB-C/TB devices if at all possible, because it's just a better port.

> Lacking USB-A is fixed easily with cables, adapters, and hubs which they should already have anyway
> Removing USB-A from a low-volume desktop will force them to make everything USB-C

Pick one. If it's such a non-issue, it won't force anyone. And it doesn't appear to have done so despite hearing it would for an entire decade now.

Yes we'll see more devices come with USB-C and USB-C to C cables. Until then, it doesn't hurt one bit to include Type-A ports that almost everything in existence and for sale comes with.

 

[smirking]

Yes we'll see more devices come with USB-C and USB-C to C cables. Until then, it doesn't hurt one bit to include Type-A ports that almost everything in existence and for sale comes with.

If those devices annoy you so much... don't buy them. Send a message.