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Tenkaykev

macrumors 6502
Jun 29, 2020
386
435

Definitely the Sandisk.
Thanks for the link. The Samsung T7 I was looking at was not the "Touch" version, I think the underlying tech is the same but the version without the fingerprint tech is cheaper.
So, from the article referenced the Samsung T7 has a transfer figure of 908, the Sandisk Extreme figure is 538 and the Sandisk Extreme Pro is 977. The Sandisk "Extreme PRO " is a lot more expensive than the "Extreme" so it would seem that the Samsung T7 would be the one to go for? or am I missing something obvious.
 

Peepo

macrumors 65816
Jun 18, 2009
1,174
627
Thanks for the link. The Samsung T7 I was looking at was not the "Touch" version, I think the underlying tech is the same but the version without the fingerprint tech is cheaper.
So, from the article referenced the Samsung T7 has a transfer figure of 908, the Sandisk Extreme figure is 538 and the Sandisk Extreme Pro is 977. The Sandisk "Extreme PRO " is a lot more expensive than the "Extreme" so it would seem that the Samsung T7 would be the one to go for? or am I missing something obvious.
Actually you may be correct, I didn't notice you were referring to just the regular sandisk, I have a sandisk Extreme 2TB and was reviews such as this one that made me purchase it.
 

Tenkaykev

macrumors 6502
Jun 29, 2020
386
435
Actually you may be correct, I didn't notice you were referring to just the regular sandisk, I have a sandisk Extreme 2TB and was reviews such as this one that made me purchase it.
I think there may be a newer model of the “ Sandisk Extreme “ as it is now advertised at
Actually you may be correct, I didn't notice you were referring to just the regular sandisk, I have a sandisk Extreme 2TB and was reviews such as this one that made me purchase it.
I’ve dug a little deeper and it would appear that the “Sandisk Extreme” is now advertised as having a transfer speed of 1050 MB/s, there’s an identical looking drive with the same name that is advertised at 550 MB/s.
The “Sandisk Extreme Pro” is advertised as having a transfer speed of 2000MB/s ?
Many thanks for your helpful reply ?
 

Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
I bought a 1TB T7 yesterday.

On my MBP16 I get c. 890/870MBps read/write

On my M1 Mini, I get 670/740MBps read/write

That’s quite a difference, especially for reads
 
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Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
Does anyone know of 2.5" SATA SSD enclosure that reliably supports 10Gbps connections to the M1 Macs?

From what I've read those with the RTL9210 chipset should work well with M1 Macs, but it's often hard to find out what chipset an enclosure is using.

I understand that a SATA SSD will never exceed 6Gbps (or about 550MBps real-life speeds), but even this would be a considerable improvement over the c. 320-380MBps speeds I get when connecting at 5Gbps.
 

Sarpanch

macrumors regular
Jan 12, 2013
138
128
SoCal
Does anyone know of 2.5" SATA SSD enclosure that reliably supports 10Gbps connections to the M1 Macs?

From what I've read those with the RTL9210 chipset should work well with M1 Macs, but it's often hard to find out what chipset an enclosure is using.

I understand that a SATA SSD will never exceed 6Gbps (or about 550MBps real-life speeds), but even this would be a considerable improvement over the c. 320-380MBps speeds I get when connecting at 5Gbps.

No luck. I have tried both ASMedia ASM235CM and Via Labs VL716 chipsets and they all connect at only 5Gb/s link speed on M1 Macs.

On the other hand, NVMe PCI-e SSD enclosures atleast connect at 10gb/s link speed, but still run at ~25% lesser speed.
 

Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
No luck. I have tried both ASMedia ASM235CM and Via Labs VL716 chipsets and they all connect at only 5Gb/s link speed on M1 Macs.

On the other hand, NVMe PCI-e SSD enclosures atleast connect at 10gb/s link speed, but still run at ~25% lesser speed.
Thanks for your reply; that is disappointing!

I'm slowly coming to the realization that we may just have to accept slower than advertised USB speeds (sometimes half speed) on these Macs.

<conspiracy>
Maybe Apple just want to force everyone (through frustration) to adopt Thunderbolt for external storage? </conspiracy>
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
<conspiracy>
Maybe Apple just want to force everyone (through frustration) to adopt Thunderbolt for external storage? </conspiracy>
But Apple doesn't make any Thunderbolt devices except the Apple Pro Display XDR. I don't think the superior USB 3.0 performance of the XDR compared to the M1 Macs is sufficient motivation to buy an XDR.
 

szczottie

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2019
25
33
So I just got new OWC Thunderbolt HUB and my external SSD speeds still caps at ~400 MB instead of ~500 MB.
 

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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
So I just got new OWC Thunderbolt HUB and my external SSD speeds still caps at ~400 MB instead of ~500 MB.
Need to see the info for all the parent USB hubs and bus. Also, try AmorphousDiskMark, set to 5 and 1 GiB, then click SEQ1M QD8.
 

szczottie

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2019
25
33
Need to see the info for all the parent USB hubs and bus. Also, try AmorphousDiskMark, set to 5 and 1 GiB, then click SEQ1M QD8.
Thanks for quick reply. I tried AmorphousDiskMark and speeds are little bit better. I attached screenshot from system information. Any idea what's wrong? Both bus shows as Up to 10 Gb/s.
 

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shadowmyst1975

macrumors member
Aug 2, 2020
85
25
Thanks for quick reply. I tried AmorphousDiskMark and speeds are little bit better. I attached screenshot from system information. Any idea what's wrong? Both bus shows as Up to 10 Gb/s.
Most likely an issue between the hub and external ssd enclosures.

Testing an Inland Premium 1TB nvme drive in an OWC Envoy Express shows a definite improvement in the performance of the ports on my M1 MBP using macOS 11.3. Speeds have gone from roughly 400-500MB/s R/W to roughly 1100MB/s write and roughly 1500MB/s read when tested with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. AmorphousDiskMark shows comparable sequential read/write speed improvements as well. Both were tested using 4GB data for a more balanced result.

(The tests were not run simultaneously, I ran Black Magic first then left the window up while I ran Amorphous.)

I'm not too surprised at the still low speeds (for TB3) as OWC chose to use the previous generation controller in it.

Also, the Sk Hynix P31 Gold NVMe no longer crashes when used with macOS 11.3. It just isn't acknowledged now. I guess that is an improvement?
 

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ubercool

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2008
1,068
72
Las Vegas
I posted a few benchmarks using 11.3 and my T5, which shows that the M1 still lags in performance compared to Intel-based Macs, like my MBP 17:

 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
Thanks for quick reply. I tried AmorphousDiskMark and speeds are little bit better. I attached screenshot from system information. Any idea what's wrong? Both bus shows as Up to 10 Gb/s.
What exactly is the OWC Thunderbolt Hub you are using (link to product page)? Is it connected directly to the M1 Mac's Thunderbolt port using a Thunderbolt cable?

It appears to be connecting as a USB device to the the M1 Mac's crappy USB controller (AppleT8103USBXHCI). Either the connection is not Thunderbolt capable, or this is a case of the USB4's USB tunnelling capability actually being used? The only way to verify that is to add a Thunderbolt device to the OWC Thunderbolt Hub that requires PCIe tunnelling. If PCIe tunnelling works to the Thunderbolt 3 device, and the OWC Thunderbolt Hub is still connected to the M1's XHCI controller, then it means USB tunnelling is being used.

What else is connected to the OWC Thunderbolt Hub?

If the OWC Thunderbolt Hub is using USB tunnelling, then the only way to force it to use PCIe tunnelling (to get access to its superior Goshen Ridge XHCI controller) is to put a Thunderbolt 3 device between the M1 Mac and the OWC Thunderbolt Hub. In that case, you may be better off with a Thunderbolt 3 Dock.

What version of macOS are you using?

What's the use of USB tunnelling to a hub in USB4 if PCIe tunnelling to a USB controller performs better? I suppose USB hubs are less expensive than USB controllers - but the Goshen Ridge includes a USB controller anyway. USB4 hosts are not required to support PCIe tunnelling, but all current USB4 hosts do.
 

szczottie

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2019
25
33
What exactly is the OWC Thunderbolt Hub you are using (link to product page)? Is it connected directly to the M1 Mac's Thunderbolt port using a Thunderbolt cable?

It appears to be connecting as a USB device to the the M1 Mac's crappy USB controller (AppleT8103USBXHCI). Either the connection is not Thunderbolt capable, or this is a case of the USB4's USB tunnelling capability actually being used? The only way to verify that is to add a Thunderbolt device to the OWC Thunderbolt Hub that requires PCIe tunnelling. If PCIe tunnelling works to the Thunderbolt 3 device, and the OWC Thunderbolt Hub is still connected to the M1's XHCI controller, then it means USB tunnelling is being used.

What else is connected to the OWC Thunderbolt Hub?

If the OWC Thunderbolt Hub is using USB tunnelling, then the only way to force it to use PCIe tunnelling (to get access to its superior Goshen Ridge XHCI controller) is to put a Thunderbolt 3 device between the M1 Mac and the OWC Thunderbolt Hub. In that case, you may be better off with a Thunderbolt 3 Dock.

What version of macOS are you using?

What's the use of USB tunnelling to a hub in USB4 if PCIe tunnelling to a USB controller performs better? I suppose USB hubs are less expensive than USB controllers - but the Goshen Ridge includes a USB controller anyway. USB4 hosts are not required to support PCIe tunnelling, but all current USB4 hosts do.
I got Thunderbolt HUB (https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-dock) and it looks like it works in USB4 mode. Is there any way to force it to work in Thunderbolt mode? I've checked with my old i7 Mini and it works as it suposed to. I checked same drive and got the rights speeds. I also have OWC 10GBe adapter connectect do HUB and have no issues with it.

I am on 11.3.
 

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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
I got Thunderbolt HUB (https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-dock) and it looks like it works in USB4 mode. Is there any way to force it to work in Thunderbolt mode?
My idea that I mentioned was that putting a Thunderbolt 3 device (with two Thunderbolt ports) between the M1 Mac and the Thunderbolt Hub would make the Thunderbolt Hub work in Thunderbolt mode. This would be incorrect if USB tunnelling can jump over a Thunderbolt 3 device (like DisplayPort 1.4 tunnelling can jump over an Alpine Ridge device). But I think there's something in the USB4 spec that says that USB tunnelling cannot pass a Thunderbolt 3 device (I forget where I saw this - I might be wrong)?
 

louiethedruid

macrumors newbie
May 22, 2021
1
0
Seoul
Thank you so much for your review and findings. Based on your experience, I also arrived at your conclusion. This was after spending about 2 weeks testing various SSDs and enclosures. Thanks to Amazon Prime's excellent delivery speed and return policies I was able to do this. Anyway, here is my anecdotal testing experience for anyone with an M1 Mac Mini, and a need for the best SSD/Enclosure combination for external storage.

Well, I just did a test of several well rated and known M.2 NVME SSDs and USB4/Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1v2 enclosures to find the best match for my M1 Mac Mini. I finally found the best match for maximum speeds so that I can take best advantage of the M1 Mac Mini's USB4/TB3 port speeds.

Winner: WD Black SN750 (1TB) with Acasis USB4/TB3 enclosure. This combination resulted in the fastest write/read speeds as well as lower speed drop-off when SLC cache was exhausted. Results - Write 2350, Read 2820. Absolutely fantastic.

Other M.2 2280 NVME SSDs tried:
1. 1TB Samsung EVO Plus - worked, but write speeds maxed out around 1400, and read around 2,400. This is not bad, but not good enough to warrant the EVO Plus' price and best theoretical speeds. Many noted that the EVO Plus does not play well with M1 Mac hardware or MacOS. The firmware was confirmed to be the most current for EVO Plus as well.
2. 1TB Adata XPG SX8200 Pro - Worked, but speeds with Acasis were about 1/3 of theoretical max write and 1/2 of read speeds. With the Sabrent TB3 enclosure, speeds were even worse, though those speeds were actually limited by the Sabrent enclosure itself as Sabrent explicitly states lower speeds. I think the actual speed culprit here is that Adata switched the solid Silicon Motion SM2262EN controller chip with the slower SM2262G chip. This is clearly a major complaint on Amazon reviews for this SSD and one which I agree with.
3. 1TB SK Hynix Gold P31 - This is also a very highly rated SSD, with excellent power efficiency and 128L. However, the SK Hynix Gold P31 M.2 NVME SSD does NOT work with M1 Macs and/or MacOS. Trying the Hynix with both the Acasis and Sabrent enclosures resulted in the immediate crashing of my M1 Mac Mini. The Mac would try to restart itself several times, unsuccessfully, then would finally reboot in Recovery Mode. The only way to have the Mac resume normal operations was to disconnect the Enclosure/SK Hynix COMBINATION. I think there is a conflict with SK Hynix's controller chip or Firmware with Intel's TB3 chips (6540 and 7440 Sabrent/Acasis). Using the SK Hynix Gold P31 with a Jeyi USB 3.1 v2 enclosure worked and did result in good speeds commensurate with USB 3.1 v2 (almost 10Gb/s) speeds. I really hope SK Hynix makes the appropriate changes to their SSD so that it will work with M1 Macs and USB4/TB3 enclosures as this SSD has the best value profile amongst its competition.
4. 1TB PNY XLR8 CS303 - This is a cheaper SSD option, but still with decent reviews. The SSD worked, but its speeds with the Acasis and Sabrent enclosures were not close to their theoretical speeds. I think write/read of 1050/1270 were the best I achieved with the Acasis enclosure.
5. 1TB Mushkin Pilot-e - I had high hopes for this SSD as Mushkin does use the highly rated Silicon Motion SM2263ENG controller chip, unlike Adata who switched to the slower SM2262G chip. However, tested speeds with the Acasis and Sabrent enclosures did not reach close to the Mushkin's theoretical speeds (tested write/read, 1300/2160). Those speeds aren't bad, but they still were not satisfactory for me.
6. 1TB WD Black SN750 - The best SSD when combined with the Acasis USB4 enclosure. I did read another MacRumors contributor write about his excellent results using the WD with his Acasis TB3 enclosure and M1 Mac, so this is the reason I actually tried it. After all this testing, I know I will be keeping the WD and Acasis combination. Hope other M1 Mac owners can learn from this testing.

Enclosures tested:
1. Jeyi USB 3.1 v2 (10Gb/s) - good quality enclosure with LED indicator, for about $30. I really like this enclosure as it also uses the better rated and reviewed Realtek RTL 9210 chip vs the older and less efficient and problematic JMicron JMS583 chip. The Jeyi with RTL9210 runs cooler and is very stable. The only drawback, and I think it could be attributable to the M1 Mac hardware and/or MacOS, is that the speeds with all tested SSDs did not get close enough to the theoretical speeds. Maybe got 750/820 write/read speeds at best. Again, not bad, but could do better.
2. Sabrent Thunderbolt 3 enclosure - This is the one selling for $89 on Amazon. The enclosure works, but the speeds are far from what is achievable for the better SSDs. Sabrent can be commended for their honesty as they advertise speeds of up to 1600, which is around what I achieved for read speeds maximum. Write maximum for me was a paltry 1050-1100. I figured for $40 more, I can get the best speeds with the Acasis.
3. Acasis USB4/TB3 enclosure - the fastest enclosure I tested. Combined with the WD Black SN750 (see 1st paragraph), my resulting speeds were excellent and very close to the M1 Mac Mini's internal SSD speeds. Since I bought the lowest storage (256GB) option, I knew that I would need a very fast external SSD to store my photo and video files and to work from the external SSD without delays. Even though the Acasis and WD combination cost me around $300 for 1TB, it still is far cheaper than paying for Apple's exorbitant storage upgrade prices. And by having external SSD with USB4 enclosure, I can use the same with other devices like my iPad, iPhone, and other PCs or Macs. I can also change or upgrade my SSD when prices drop for PCIe 3x4 SSDs or manufacturers release better models.

That's it for my actual experience reviewing External SSD and Enclosures for my M1 Mac Mini.
hi,

I heard that a new firmware for Hynix P31 has been released recently, and it supports Mac now.
Firmware version is 41062C20.
 
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szczottie

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2019
25
33
Anything new on this issue? My 24” M1 iMac is arriving soon, and I was planning to use an external SSD with the imac
Well I had to buy another TB3 dock and daisy chain to force new OWC thunderbolt dock to work in TB3 mode instead of USB 4.

Now I get the maximum speeds on my SSDs.



IMG_9901.jpg
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
Well I had to buy another TB3 dock and daisy chain to force new OWC thunderbolt dock to work in TB3 mode instead of USB 4.

Now I get the maximum speeds on my SSDs.
Which other Thunderbolt 3 dock did you get? Can you show screenshots of the USB, Thunderbolt, PCIe tabs in System Information.app in each situation so people can understand the difference between USB4 tunnelled mode and not tunnelled mode? Also a benchmark for each mode to show why one would not want USB4 tunnelled mode.
 

szczottie

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2019
25
33
Which other Thunderbolt 3 dock did you get? Can you show screenshots of the USB, Thunderbolt, PCIe tabs in System Information.app in each situation so people can understand the difference between USB4 tunnelled mode and not tunnelled mode? Also a benchmark for each mode to show why one would not want USB4 tunnelled mode.
So... This is how it's connected:

Mac Mini M1 -> Kensington SD5000T -> OWC Thunderbolt Dock
Screenshot 2021-05-24 at 20.41.30.png

USB:
Screenshot 2021-05-24 at 20.50.28.png



And my ssd speeds now:

Extreme SSD:
Sandisk Extreme 1TB.png


Evo 860 in UGREEN enclosure:

Evo 860 1TB.png


Few posts above I posted my speeds when OWC Thunderbolt dock was in USB 4 mode. The only way to force it into Thunderbolt 3 mode is to connect it through other TB3 dock. It's not perfect but at least it works. I bought my "bridge" dock from ebay for about £50.
 
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
So... This is how it's connected:

Mac Mini M1 -> Kensington SD5000T -> OWC Thunderbolt Dock

And my ssd speeds now (read/write MB/s):
Extreme SSD: 516/465
Evo 860 in UGREEN: 519/495

Few posts above I posted my speeds when OWC Thunderbolt dock was in USB 4 mode. The only way to force it into Thunderbolt 3 mode is to connect it through other TB3 dock. It's not perfect but at least it works. I bought my "bridge" dock from ebay for about £50.
Very nice. The USB tab screenshot shows that your USB drives are now connected to the Intel USB controller (PCIe vendor : product 8086:0b27) of the Goshen Ridge Thunderbolt controller of the OWC Thunderbolt 4 Dock instead of via USB tunnelling to the USB controller in the M1 Mac. You showed the slow speeds of the USB tunnelling mode (or at least the slowness of the M1 Mac's USB controller) at #309 and the connection information at #311 (the M1 Mac doesn't use PCIe for it's USB controller so it doesn't have a PCIe vendor and product ID).

In either situation (using M1 Mac's USB controller or the Intel USB controller 8087:0b27), the layout of the OWC Thunderbolt 4 Dock remains the same as expected - an OWC 4 port 10 Gbps hub (USB vendor : product ID 1e91:de48) is connected to the Intel 4 port 10 Gbps hub (USB vendor : product ID 8087:0b40) which is connected to the USB controller. This is similar to the CalDigit Element Hub or other Thunderbolt 4 docks, or basically any Titan Ridge Thunderbolt dock to allow easy compatibility with non-Thunderbolt USB-C ports.

There are some Titan Ridge based devices that actually use PCie for it's devices when there's a Thunderbolt connection, and then switch to USB-C when there is no Thunderbolt connection. I am talking about things like the the ACASIS USB4.0 enclosure which is a very simple device with two different chips to control an NVMe device - one chip is for USB-C to NVMe (JMS583) and another chip (Titan Ridge) for Thunderbolt to PCIe (NVMe). Neither chip is actually USB4 - the Acasis will not do USB tunnelling - but I can't think of an issue that would cause since it can do a normal USB connection which is probably slightly faster than USB tunnelling anyway.
 
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idjego

macrumors newbie
Dec 17, 2015
27
1
Hi, I have a mbpro m1 and a CALDIGIT ts3 + dock.
What other device should I buy to reach those speeds on my external ssd drives? Another thunderbolt3 dock?
Would the following device connect before or after the Ts3 +?
Thanks!
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,974
4,262
Neither chip is actually USB4 - the Acasis will not do USB tunnelling - but I can't think of an issue that would cause since it can do a normal USB connection which is probably slightly faster than USB tunnelling anyway.
Now I remember the problem with fake USB4 devices like the ACASIS - they cannot perform at full speed when connected directly to a USB4 host that supports PCIe tunnelling but doesn't support Thunderbolt. As far as I know, all the current USB4 hosts (Intel Thunderbolt 4 and M1 Apple Silicon) all support Thunderbolt so this is not a problem yet. The workaround would be to connect a USB4 compatible dock to the USB4 host because a USB4 compatible dock is required to support downstream Thunderbolt devices according to the USB4 spec.

Hi, I have a mbpro m1 and a CALDIGIT ts3 + dock.
What other device should I buy to reach those speeds on my external ssd drives? Another thunderbolt3 dock?
Would the following device connect before or after the Ts3 +?
Thanks!
You only need one Thunderbolt 3 Dock. The problem discussed in szczottie's posts was regarding getting full USB performance from a Thunderbolt 4 Dock.

Connect a USB SSD to the Thunderbolt 3 Dock and get better speed because it will be connected to the USB controller of the Thunderbolt 3 dock instead of the USB controller of the M1 Mac.

If the SSD is USB 5 Gbps, then use the 10 Gbps port or the 5 Gbps port next to the 10 Gbps port or the Thunderbolt port. The other 5 Gbps ports (from FL1100 USB controller) will have slightly less max performance than 5 Gbps from ASM1142 or Thunderbolt ports. Of course, if your USB 5 Gbps SSD can't use all the 5 Gbps bandwidth, then the 5 Gbps ports will be enough.

If the SSD is USB 10 Gbps, then use the Thunderbolt port because the 10 Gbps port of the CalDigit TS3 Plus is only capable of 8 Gbps. Of course, if your USB 10 Gbps SSD can't use more than 8 Gbps of bandwidth, then the 10 Gbps port of the CalDigit TS3 Plus is sufficient.

If the SSD is Thunderbolt, then you shouldn't need a Thunderbolt dock, except OWC found that connecting a Thunderbolt SSD to one port of the M1 Mac and a Thunderbolt dock (plus maybe a display) to the other Thunderbolt port causes an improvement in performance.
https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/74383-faster-drive-performance-with-m1-mac/
https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/74780-faster-external-drive-speed-m1-mac/#comment-193366
 

idjego

macrumors newbie
Dec 17, 2015
27
1
Thanks for your answer, but I can't quite understand it ...
I have several Evo 860 SSDs in external USB enclosures. When I connect them on other macs the read / write speed is 500mb / s and on my TS3 + Dock the speed is 370mbs.
How can I get that speed of 500mb / s on an M1?
 
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