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MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
It would be a worldwide scandal if it was the other way around.
Imagine the headlines..."People steal iPhones replace home button and steal all your stuff"

When there is evidence that is possible, sure, huge issue.
 

ramanjassal98

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2014
91
73
London
My sister experienced the exact same issue with her iPhone 6. But the phone had never been repaired and was in complete working condition (hadn't been dropped or damaged). The Touch ID sensor stopped working randomly and Apple told us to try and restore it, hence 'bricking' the phone and causing error 53.

As it was out of warranty, Apple wanted to charge us over £200. Fair enough I guess, but when I asked them the reason why the sensor had stopped working as the phone had never had any work done on it, they couldn't give me an answer!

We were lucky that after being very persuasive, we managed to get the Mobile Network Provider (EE) who was the retailer of the phone, to replace the device for free under UK/EU laws (Sales of Goods Act and EU Consumer Law) which essentially state any product sold must be fit for use for 2-6 years.




Some iPhone 6 users who had their smartphones repaired by third-party technicians are reporting that a mysterious "error 53" message is permanently bricking their iPhones (via The Guardian). Users who have had Touch ID on their iPhone 6 fixed by a non-Apple technician, and agreed to update the iPhone to the most recent version of iOS, are facing an issue which essentially prevents all access to the iPhone.

Freelance photographer Antonio Olmos is one such affected iPhone 6 user who had his iPhone repaired in Macedonia while working. He said "it worked perfectly" after the repair shop finished fixing the broken screen and home button, but once he updated to iOS 9 he got an "error 53" message and could no longer access any of his personal content on the iPhone. An Apple Store in London was shown the issue, and staff there admitted there was nothing they could do for him besides sell him a new iPhone.

iphone_6_hands.jpg
Speaking with The Guardian, iFixit's Kyle Wiens said that the issue, while still unclear, appears to be Apple ensuring only genuine components are being used for repairs. Once a third party changes the home button or internal cable, the iPhone checks to be sure that all original components are running the phone, and if there are any discrepancies users face the "error 53" message and can't access their data. Since mentions of "error 53" span a few versions of iOS, it's unclear specifically which software update began the phone-locking error message.

An Apple spokeswoman commented on the issue, referring to protective security features intended to prevent "malicious" third-party components from potentially compromising a user's iPhone as the main reason for the "error 53" message. Other than that, Apple hasn't commented on the issue or outlined exactly what the company can do for those affected by the iPhone bricking error message. Mentions of "error 53" have been around since at least last April, where some users have encountered the issue in software updates as early as iOS 8.3.

Article Link: Users Facing 'Error 53' Bricking Message After Third-Party iPhone 6 Home Button Repairs
 
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tech3475

macrumors 6502
May 17, 2011
311
182
I'm surprised they don't just disable touchID, unless the touchID sensor is somehow able to execute code (which is a bad design choice), I can't see any other reason to have an unofficial replacement require the whole device to be disabled.

Even Samsung with Knox just disable Knox features.

I can see Apple pulling some kind of u-turn if this continues to get attention or Apple offering an alternative of some kind (e.g. cheaper/faster repairs (not everyone has an Apple store near them or the time to send it off)).
 

palmerc

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
350
225
Why?

If my iPhone is out of warranty, then I should be able to have it repaired by who ever I want.

I can see why it might be a good thing to avoid circumventing the security on stolen phones, but from a user standpoint who wants a repair, apple repairs aren't exactly the cheapest, or in the UK and other countries where apple stores are only in big cities, its a pain in the rear not being able to take it to a local phone shop.

Your points are valid, but the answer isn't installing counterfeit, stolen or used components by self-appointed Apple device repair outlets. It seems that rather than blaming Apple the issue is squarely on the people offering a service they aren't qualified to provide. Furthermore, maybe Apple services aren't the cheapest, although they aren't crazy expensive either, but they do guarantee a functional phone in exchange for the assessed fee. The unqualified repair outlet on the other hand offers no warranty, simply suggesting you 'blame Apple.'
[doublepost=1454757135][/doublepost]
My sister experienced the exact same issue with her iPhone 6. But the phone had never been repaired and was in complete working condition (hadn't been dropped or damaged). The Touch ID sensor stopped working randomly and Apple told us to try and restore it, hence 'bricking' the phone and causing error 53.

As it was out of warranty, Apple wanted to charge us over £200. Fair enough I guess, but when I asked them the reason why the sensor had stopped working as the phone had never had any work done on it, they couldn't give me an answer!

We were lucky that after being very persuasive, we managed to get the Mobile Network Provider (EE) who was the retailer of the phone, to replace the device for free under UK/EU laws (Sales of Goods Act and EU Consumer Law) which essentially state any product sold must be fit for use for 2-6 years.

It is easier to diagnose where the problem lies than to identify its cause. Electronic components fail, and without spending significant sums you can't give a definitive answer as to why a given part fails. But you knew that.
 

Mildredop

macrumors 68020
Oct 14, 2013
2,478
1,510
So even if you
I am with Apple on this too, although its widely known you cannot replace a TouchID button anyway due to its unique ID tied with the logic board. As far as i'm aware no one is able to flash these to match.
So even if you go to Apple, the home button can't be replaced? Broken home button means written-off iPhone?
 

ramanjassal98

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2014
91
73
London
Your points are valid, but the answer isn't installing counterfeit, stolen or used components by self-appointed Apple device repair outlets. It seems that rather than blaming Apple the issue is squarely on the people offering a service they aren't qualified to provide. Furthermore, maybe Apple services aren't the cheapest, although they aren't crazy expensive either, but they do guarantee a functional phone in exchange for the assessed fee. The unqualified repair outlet on the other hand offers no warranty, simply suggesting you 'blame Apple.'
[doublepost=1454757135][/doublepost]

It is easier to diagnose where the problem lies than to identify its cause. Electronic components fail, and without spending significant sums you can't give a definitive answer as to why a given part fails. But you knew that.

I completely agree identifying the cause is not the easiest option in most cases.

The guy at the Genius Bar told me 'It could be wear and tear but we don't know". All he did was plug it into iTunes and wait for the error to appear.

I had the option to pay just £30 to have the phone independently examined by a third party. However that wasn't necessary as the phone retailer carried out the examination free of charge. Their findings were as follows: "Upon opening the device, there were no signs of damage inflicted on the device's internal components. As a result EE cannot determine the cause of failure of the TouchID Sensor."

The point I'm trying to make out is that Apple still needs to carry out extensive diagnostics into other possibilities which may cause the sensor to not validate with the Secure Enclave.

Being told to pay for a fault which may have nothing to do with the consumer is not right. But you already knew that.
 

MarcusCarpenter

macrumors 6502a
Feb 18, 2013
762
94
London
So even if you

So even if you go to Apple, the home button can't be replaced? Broken home button means written-off iPhone?
Only apple can replace these touchID buttons as they would have the necessary hardware/software to flash the chip on the home button to match the logic board
 

MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
Your original comment stated the button was "critical to phone functionality" which it is not.

As I stated, I have never used it, so therefore it cannot be "core".

And for those who don't get the Kino ref
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Kino

For the majority of users who have owned and used iPhones since 2007 it's critical . I can also use a Mac and a Pc without a Keyboard and mouse.....99.9% people will use KB/mouse combo.....

Your making a choice not to use it with a recent software update.

Home button is critical. When your device freezes up, cause the software has an issue, how are you going to do a reset of your device when the OS is not responsive?

You are missing the point of a critical hardware function v software accessibility.
 

LovingTeddy

Suspended
Oct 12, 2015
1,848
2,154
Canada
Aren't you able to send it via mail???

First I won't have any phone to use if I sent to Apple. It will takes long time for it to reach Apple and takes long time to send back to me.

Second. Apple would charge your account first then refund you. I will not want Apple charge me and I am not able to use my money.

Third: if I can fix it at local store, why would I ship to Apple? And not only TouchID replacement will **** up your iPhone, change screen may also **** up your iPhone.

So no, for people like me where no Apple Store or Authorized reseller, not everyone willing to go through mailing back and forth
 

palmerc

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
350
225
I completely agree identifying the cause is not the easiest option in most cases.

The guy at the Genius Bar told me 'It could be wear and tear but we don't know". All he did was plug it into iTunes and wait for the error to appear.

I had the option to pay just £30 to have the phone independently examined by a third party. However that wasn't necessary as the phone retailer carried out the examination free of charge. Their findings were as follows: "Upon opening the device, there were no signs of damage inflicted on the device's internal components. As a result EE cannot determine the cause of failure of the TouchID Sensor."

The point I'm trying to make out is that Apple still needs to carry out extensive diagnostics into other possibilities which may cause the sensor to not validate with the Secure Enclave.

Being told to pay for a fault which may have nothing to do with the consumer is not right. But you already knew that.

And their findings can be boiled down to, "it doesn't appear to have been crushed with a hammer or filled with chocolate so we have no idea." With integrated electronic devices diagnosing individual components is nearly impossible within the constraints of cheap repairs which is why Apple almost always swaps phones rather than repairing them.
 

Jax44

Contributor
Jul 24, 2010
736
862
Carmel, California
Are you guys actually listening to yourselves? You are literally justifying Apple's actions in that they should be allowed to DESTROY someone's phone if they get it repaired at a 3rd party repair shop and then upgrade to the latest OS.
What the wut???
That's really F'd up guys. I mean, people refer to us as mindless sheep for this very reason. Come on.

First off, I'm not buying this excuse from Apple in the first place. No way they would brick someone's phone for getting it repaired at a non-Apple Store repair shop. If they are doing this on purpose, this should be reason enough for people to walk away...no, run away from Apple because this is pretty much illegal. I wouldn't want to be on the **** end of that stick.
But this has to be something that that was brought to their attention as a bug and their solution was to turn it into a feature and say customers are SOL (typical). And you guys are buying into it hook line and sinker. Sheesh.

Second, if Apple did do this on purpose, all Apple had to do was maybe disable the phone if it detects parts that are not "Apple made", or give you periodic notifications that you can't disable, and then remove them once the correct parts are installed. They don't have to brick the damn thing and make someone buy a new phone because of it. But, with that said, that's still horribly shady and majorly douchey, but at least they aren't destroying your ***** phone.

It's absolutely no different than the SS coming into your home in 1940's Germany and burning it down because you didn't have an approved "official" photo of Da Fuhrer on display. Well, same concept anyway.

If I want to get MY iPhone 6 repaired at a 3rd party shop, I should be able to do so at MY OWN RISK, without worry of Apple's iron fist coming down and smashing my phone from the heavens (or from hell, pick your poison). Apple has no right to tell me where I have to get my phone fixed and what brand parts I have to put in it. They are within their rights to void the warranty if the phone is still under warranty, I get that, but they can't be bricking people's phones over it. That is insane!
If I live 500 miles away from an Apple Store or an authorized repair center (if those even exist), then what? I have to ship it off and wait weeks to get it back? Or I have to drive 500 miles to get it fixed? That's just stupid if I have a phone repair shop in my town.

That 1984 ad that Apple is sooooo proud of, in no way shape or form represents the Apple of today. Talk about role reversal. Wow.

I don't believe Apple for a second in this. Surely this is a bug that they are trying to turn into a feature. If not, then this is reason enough to run away from Apple and never come back. We'll see if anything comes of this.


Hitler, God, Heaven and Hell...

Epic novel there dude.
 

palmerc

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
350
225
So even if you

So even if you go to Apple, the home button can't be replaced? Broken home button means written-off iPhone?

Written off, no. Apple's typical process is to swap phones with a refurbished unit for a flat fee or within warranty. This solves a couple of problems, one the problem the user complained about, any unseen potentially related problems, it is fast and the phone is in better physical condition which makes the user happy.
[doublepost=1454765039][/doublepost]
First I won't have any phone to use if I sent to Apple. It will takes long time for it to reach Apple and takes long time to send back to me.

Second. Apple would charge your account first then refund you. I will not want Apple charge me and I am not able to use my money.

Third: if I can fix it at local store, why would I ship to Apple? And not only TouchID replacement will **** up your iPhone, change screen may also **** up your iPhone.

So no, for people like me where no Apple Store or Authorized reseller, not everyone willing to go through mailing back and forth

"if I can fix it at local store, why would I ship to Apple?" - Because you can't get it fixed at a local store and if someone tells you otherwise they're lying. The whole 3rd party repair market is best described as a gray market. It isn't authorized and operates on the principal of trial-and-error.

When you contact Apple for mail-in repair, they send you a box and you send it overnight and get it back overnight.
 

Muzzakus

macrumors 6502
May 23, 2011
477
716
I completely agree identifying the cause is not the easiest option in most cases.

The guy at the Genius Bar told me 'It could be wear and tear but we don't know". All he did was plug it into iTunes and wait for the error to appear.

I had the option to pay just £30 to have the phone independently examined by a third party. However that wasn't necessary as the phone retailer carried out the examination free of charge. Their findings were as follows: "Upon opening the device, there were no signs of damage inflicted on the device's internal components. As a result EE cannot determine the cause of failure of the TouchID Sensor."

The point I'm trying to make out is that Apple still needs to carry out extensive diagnostics into other possibilities which may cause the sensor to not validate with the Secure Enclave.

Being told to pay for a fault which may have nothing to do with the consumer is not right. But you already knew that.

What extensive diagnostics? These are computing devices with control systems at every point of failure. These things are built on error states. It's all there, nothing extensive to be done about it.
 

palmerc

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
350
225
What extensive diagnostics? These are computing devices with control systems at every point of failure. These things are built on error states. It's all there, nothing extensive to be done about it.

Extensive - to the point where it is all summed up with Error 53.

Diagnosing issues, when we really want to know where the problem originated can come down to using a microscope. For example, did static electricity rearrange the doping in the semiconductor? It isn't cost effective, so you focus on making sure your process and yields are good up front which leads to better outcomes in the field.

The hardest thing for any manufacturer is determining what the user has done to the device that they didn't account for, like jailbreaking or 3rd party repairs with used or counterfeit components. I've seen some of these repairs and they are all over the place in terms of quality. Screen isn't original and happens to be thicker than the original and extends beyond the edge of the case or a cable was nicked, did they take any sort of anti-static precautions? If soldering was involved was it amateur hour? The fact is, you don't want whatever service a 3rd party is offering, because they are probably causing as much harm as good.
 

phyveaux

macrumors newbie
Feb 6, 2016
1
2
Apple has zero responsibility to allow or consider non- Apple parts being put into their product.

Interesting perspective. Would you say the same about a car company? "Sorry, but you put an aftermarket battery under the hood, so we bricked your Accord. Your battery must come from a Honda store."
 

palmerc

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
350
225
Interesting perspective. Would you say the same about a car company? "Sorry, but you put an aftermarket battery under the hood, so we bricked your Accord. Your battery must come from a Honda store."

Funny you mention that... while in the pre-1980s world it would be commonplace for people to perform independent repairs, that has gradually become less and less common. Mechanics were also commonly welders and machinists capable of fashioning a part on the spot. Today, mechanics are more and more, people that swap box A with new box A given the computer reads failure code 53. They aren't mechanics in the sense of my grandfather, they're mechanics much more in the realm of computer repair guys. People that swap units.

This trend will only become more pronounced as we transition from gasoline to electric automobiles. So, yeah, you'll need the vendor to replace your Teslas battery.

I think it truly says something about the simplicity of automobiles that you could ever repair them without being a master mechanic. Switch the discussion to watches and you see the opposite, only a handful of watchmakers could work on a given watch or fashion parts for it.
 

ramanjassal98

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2014
91
73
London
Extensive - to the point where it is all summed up with Error 53.

Diagnosing issues, when we really want to know where the problem originated can come down to using a microscope. For example, did static electricity rearrange the doping in the semiconductor? It isn't cost effective, so you focus on making sure your process and yields are good up front which leads to better outcomes in the field.

The hardest thing for any manufacturer is determining what the user has done to the device that they didn't account for, like jailbreaking or 3rd party repairs with used or counterfeit components. I've seen some of these repairs and they are all over the place in terms of quality. Screen isn't original and happens to be thicker than the original and extends beyond the edge of the case or a cable was nicked, did they take any sort of anti-static precautions? If soldering was involved was it amateur hour? The fact is, you don't want whatever service a 3rd party is offering, because they are probably causing as much harm as good.

There are loads of people who don't fall under the reasons Apple says causes the error (a quick google search shows there are loads of people whose phones were in good working condition with no repair work conducted on them which are experiencing the error.

It's possible that the quality of the sensor could play a part in the error or the flex cables etc. (I'm just guessing here).

No matter what is causing the issue, if the consumer is not at fault, then Apple needs to address this.

If the phone was still under warranty, Apple would replace the device almost immediately under the standard 1 year warranty (which doesn't cover accidental damage, modifications etc.) Granted that it could be a gesture of good will, but if you think about it, just because it's older than 12 months, does that mean the consumer is automatically at fault?
 

AppleInTheMud

macrumors 6502
Jun 19, 2012
427
120
Vojens Denmark
From the next update this is NOT JUST related to replacing the TouchID button. But also screen repairs a.s.o

Apple must have swallowed something poisonous ...
 

palmerc

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2008
350
225
There are loads of people who don't fall under the reasons Apple says causes the error (a quick google search shows there are loads of people whose phones were in good working condition with no repair work conducted on them which are experiencing the error.

It's possible that the quality of the sensor could play a part in the error or the flex cables etc. (I'm just guessing here).

No matter what is causing the issue, if the consumer is not at fault, then Apple needs to address this.

If the phone was still under warranty, Apple would replace the device almost immediately under the standard 1 year warranty (which doesn't cover accidental damage, modifications etc.) Granted that it could be a gesture of good will, but if you think about it, just because it's older than 12 months, does that mean the consumer is automatically at fault?

Simply googling for articles on this issue is hardly interesting. Most are simply repeating the same information (Echo, Echo, Echo). The self-reporting of failures is hardly trustworthy.

I'll toss out some personal anecdote with regards to Apple repair. I have a mid-2012 Macbook Pro with 15" Retina, it was down to the last week on warranty and I took it in to be repaired because it had a nasty dent in the screen and case from a bicycle accident and the battery needed replacing. I brought it in, told the guy I fell off my bike on ice, and asked how much it would be to get the dented screen and case replaced? Answer - insanely expensive. They then offered that the case would be replaced for free because the battery was within warranty and glued to the case. 3 days later, brand new case, screen and battery. Another time I cooked the GPU on my iPad Air doing OpenGL hacking, also replaced on the spot free of charge. That is typical Apple.
 

ramanjassal98

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2014
91
73
London
Simply googling for articles on this issue is hardly interesting. Most are simply repeating the same information (Echo, Echo, Echo). The self-reporting of failures is hardly trustworthy.

I'll toss out some personal anecdote with regards to Apple repair. I have a mid-2012 Macbook Pro with 15" Retina, it was down to the last week on warranty and I took it in to be repaired because it had a nasty dent in the screen and case from a bicycle accident and the battery needed replacing. I brought it in, told the guy I fell off my bike on ice, and asked how much it would be to get the dented screen and case replaced? Answer - insanely expensive. They then offered that the case would be replaced for free because the battery was within warranty and glued to the case. 3 days later, brand new case, screen and battery. Another time I cooked the GPU on my iPad Air doing OpenGL hacking, also replaced on the spot free of charge. That is typical Apple.

Whether it's interesting or not, and echoed, the information is out there online.

Maybe it's just because I've grown up in the UK under EU influence, that I have grown accustom to the strict laws they impose on businesses, protecting consumers and making sure they are treated fairly.

After all it's us, the consumers who have made Apple what it is today.
 
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