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coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
7,368
10,259
Vancouver, BC
Why?

If my iPhone is out of warranty, then I should be able to have it repaired by who ever I want.

The writing in on the wall. This is about "unauthorized" third-party repair shops, and "uncertified" replacement parts. Apple has set a high bar of quality to make sure their product industry does not become the mess that the PC industry has become. If a third-party is serious about being in the business of repairing Apple devices, then they seek authorization and certified parts. Good for them, good for the consumer.
 

Newjackboy

macrumors 6502a
Aug 6, 2012
689
330
So, on detecting 3rd party replacement of any finger print related part they couldn't just completely disable only the finger print ID access and switch to pin only entry like every iPhone that doesn't have finger print ID? Instead of bricking the whole phone.

THIS!! and this is exactly what apple will do when this story gets larger! Funny now those living 2 miles from an apple store think its "perfectly acceptable". You forget most apple users do NOT have a store near their homes!
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,539
25,302
This is Apple telling us not to venture out of their ecosystem. In this case, if you try it your phone will be bricked. Imagine if you had to use genuine GM parts to repair your car or else your care is bricked. This scares the **** out of me.

I think it would be more scary if a third-party fingerprint scanner could be installed in an iPhone, especially after all they touted regarding security.
 

RoyalElephant

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2013
54
25
There are quite a few people, stupid people, who will blame Apple for shoddy third party repairs. How is bricking peoples phone preventing that exactly?
 

69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,895
15,044
In between a rock and a hard place
You understand the security risks though? If someone could just install hacked touch ID sensors, then your data could be compromised. Apple has a responsibility to prevent scenarios like that.

And you don't have to get it fixed by Apple per se, but they probably need to be an authorized repair center. Otherwise what's to stop cheap repair shops from putting in Chinese knockoff TouchID sensors and putting your security and or personal information at risk?
Either there's info missing from MR's article, or the explanation doesn't entirely hold water. Partially, yes. Completely, no. If it just about the security, then Touch ID shouldn't work after the repair. Again, according to the article, that's not the case. Touch ID does work using the replacement home buttons. The error-53 message only appears after an update to the latest version of iOS. If that is indeed the case, the security isn't secure and it sort of nullifies the reasoning of avoiding security compromises.

In my mind, if it's about security, the replacement home button would cease to work immediately. That's security. Requiring an update to trigger the Error-53 really isn't. Fairly, there's most likely a lot I'm missing, but if the article is correct, Error-53 doesn't prevent installing unapproved Touch ID sensors; hacked or otherwise.
 

SpitUK

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2010
865
773
East Yorkshire, UK
I had this exact issue this week and it seems that when you replace the screen you can damage the home button cable. Phone works fine until you do a software update and you get the error. I got round it by hot wiring the phone with a third party home button cable and letting it do the update. I then removed the new cable and it works fine.
 
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Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
While I understand the vitriol against Apple for this error, it makes sense from a security standpoint. Hopefully, having an authorized Apple repair center replace the home button with a legitimate one can restore a phone giving this error.
From reading the article it might already be a legitimate home button (since it has to have touch ID). The issue is that the new fingerprint scanner is not legitimately linked to the secure enclave. So perhaps Apple can just do that part for affected owners.



Mike
 
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sim667

macrumors 65816
Dec 7, 2010
1,415
2,924
If you get your Mercedes (or any other advanced car) ignition replaced by a non-mercedes ignition, there is a very strong chance the car wouldn't start. Which is good, because someone could break in, replace the ignition with one that they have the key to, and drive away.

Its not the ignition system that does that, its the immobiliser.

The point is the components can be replaced by anyone, without stopping the car from working at all. I can work and replace components on my own car, without rendering it useless too.
[doublepost=1454691516][/doublepost]
I had this exact issue this week and it seems that when you replace the screen you can damage the home button cable. Phone works fine until you do a software update and you get the error. I got round it by hot wiring the phone with a third party home button cable and letting it do the update. I then removed the new cable and it works fine.

Good shout on the workaround...

I wonder if it will do it on the next update though.
 

RedWing512

macrumors regular
May 14, 2014
147
400
Take off your tinfoil hat and read the entire article.

While I am by no means a technical expert, I would imagine there would have to be a way for Apple to properly secure the Secure Enclavewhile still allowing people to get their phones repaired wherever they want.

As an example, the original NES had a lockout chip that prevented anything other than officially licensed games from playing on the system. Something like that, where as long as the home button is an official OEM part, you would be good.

Unless I get proof that something like that is technically unfeasible, I'm still gonna assume it's an example of Apple exercising their walled garden and will rail against Apple on this one.
 

MrShoehorn

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
42
17
Why?

If my iPhone is out of warranty, then I should be able to have it repaired by who ever I want.

I can see why it might be a good thing to avoid circumventing the security on stolen phones, but from a user standpoint who wants a repair, apple repairs aren't exactly the cheapest, or in the UK and other countries where apple stores are only in big cities, its a pain in the rear not being able to take it to a local phone shop.

How much is a repair from a 3rd party? Apple charges $150 for out of warranty screen replacements on a 6 plus. Everyone around me charges that for a 6 or 5s. I've been fixing them for friends and family since the first iPhone came out, cheapest I can get screens for a 6 plus is $90. Admittedly I don't have the connections 3rd party repair stores have but if you say they manage to get them for $60 and charge $110-120 why would I do that instead of the extra $30 directly from Apple?
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,324
1,560
This is Apple telling us not to venture out of their ecosystem. In this case, if you try it your phone will be bricked. Imagine if you had to use genuine GM parts to repair your car or else your care is bricked. This scares the **** out of me.
Actually, you often do need original car parts (specific), or go to an authorized retailer if you need to do software stuff for certain brands. For example, coded keys and stuff like that also.

This isnt a screen or a battery, its a thing that unlocks your bank account!
 

Jakexb

macrumors 6502a
Mar 18, 2014
798
1,106
If this weren't true, you could hook up a totally fake TouchId sensor sneak right in to the phone. This isn't Apple just being jerks about components.
 
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LCPepper

macrumors 6502
Aug 5, 2013
275
246
United Kingdom
Well, if it is linked to the Touch ID contraption inside the phone, could Apple not have just charged him for a screen replacement, and then reset the verification to the new Apple-installed Touch ID sensor?

I have had my screen replaced by Apple, and I believe that the whole screen part includes the home button too no?

Clearly Apple can do this re-verification where the third party stores cannot... But that does that HAVE to mean that Apple can't do it retrospectively or pop a new sensor in?
 

Dynamite_Rave

macrumors newbie
Feb 5, 2016
6
15
Pittsburgh, PA
Well if I replace the door locking system on my car, and get it done at a non-honda garage, it doesn't stop the car from being usable..... so No, you're not :rolleyes:

When your car stores all of your banking information and personal data, I'm pretty sure you won't want the Non-Honda garage to repair your door with an aftermarket door with a security measure built into it.
 
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Rafagon

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2011
825
967
Miami, FL
Why?

If my iPhone is out of warranty, then I should be able to have it repaired by who ever I want.
You are in fact allowed to have it repaired by whomever you want.

If they performed the repair job identically to the way Apple does, including re-validating the pairing mentioned in the article, then your phone will work just fine.

If the repair shop is taking shortcuts, or simply lacks the knowledge to replace the home button properly, then your phone will not work. Simple as that.

The security measures are in place to protect the rest of us.
 

Reason077

macrumors 68040
Aug 14, 2007
3,779
3,953
If a third-party is serious about being in the business of repairing Apple devices, then they seek authorization and certified parts. Good for them, good for the consumer.

It's only good for the consumer if they make the parts available at competitive prices. The reason people use 3rd-party parts is they are much cheaper than Apple originals ($200+ for a home button?!)
 
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sim667

macrumors 65816
Dec 7, 2010
1,415
2,924
How much is a repair from a 3rd party? Apple charges $150 for out of warranty screen replacements on a 6 plus. Everyone around me charges that for a 6 or 5s. I've been fixing them for friends and family since the first iPhone came out, cheapest I can get screens for a 6 plus is $90. Admittedly I don't have the connections 3rd party repair stores have but if you say they manage to get them for $60 and charge $110-120 why would I do that instead of the extra $30 directly from Apple?

Apple charge $182 in the UK

You can buy a kit to do it yourself for $95, so almost half price.

I take much more of an issue with not being able to DIY ;)
 

SpitUK

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2010
865
773
East Yorkshire, UK
Its not the ignition system that does that, its the immobiliser.

The point is the components can be replaced by anyone, without stopping the car from working at all. I can work and replace components on my own car, without rendering it useless too.
[doublepost=1454691516][/doublepost]

Good shout on the workaround...

I wonder if it will do it on the next update though.

It's worked for the last 2 updates.
 
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sim667

macrumors 65816
Dec 7, 2010
1,415
2,924
You are in fact allowed to have it repaired by whomever you want.

If they performed the repair job identically to the way Apple does, including re-validating the pairing mentioned in the article, then your phone will work just fine.

If the repair shop is taking shortcuts, or simply lacks the knowledge to replace the home button properly, then your phone will not work. Simple as that.

The security measures are in place to protect the rest of us.

If apple sell the official replacement parts to 3rd party repairers. Which I believe they will only supply AASP companies.

However they will also not allow AASP companies to repair iOS devices, only OS X devices.

*in the UK, I don't know about elsewhere
 

Jeans01Ddk

macrumors newbie
Jan 21, 2016
14
14
You understand the security risks though? If someone could just install hacked touch ID sensors, then your data could be compromised. Apple has a responsibility to prevent scenarios like that.

There's no security risk at all... if You just use a PIN-code on the phone... I would like to see Your comment if Ford cars got an error 53 if You put petrol on from another suppliers than Ford certified, and Ford certified service stations would charge 50$ per gallon!
No way! but if Apple does it it's okay?

And you don't have to get it fixed by Apple per se, but they probably need to be an authorized repair center. Otherwise what's to stop cheap repair shops from putting in Chinese knockoff TouchID sensors and putting your security and or personal information at risk?
 

raybo

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2007
246
269
Saint Petersburg, FL
If the OS would reject the repair right away instead of waiting for an OS update to lock up, then I would believe this is a security issue.
Perhaps one of the primary reasons for the iOS update was to ensure that it does get bricked when compromised... This seems so simple - Apple hits a grand slam and you beat them up with the bat!!!! WTF?
 

AppleNewton

macrumors 68000
Apr 3, 2007
1,697
84
1 Finite Place
Apple has zero responsibility to allow or consider non- Apple parts being put into their product.

exactly. most of the "tech shops" use non-OEM parts and people do not know the difference. and then whine.
besides that, the security involved with the touch id itself preventing data theft, etc.
 

scotio200

macrumors regular
Mar 4, 2015
217
188
If you have a read on the iOS Security Guide you will see its not at easy as just turning off the touch id sensor and asking for a passcode instead.

For devices with an A7 or later A-series processor, the Secure Enclave coprocessor also utilizes a secure boot process that ensures its separate software is verified and signed by Apple.

If one step of this boot process is unable to load or verify the next process, startup is stopped and the device displays the “Connect to iTunes” screen

This is whats happening here, basically after an update of the firmware the system is failing its security checks and stopping the phone from booting up. To bypass this Apple would need to re-write the entire encryption process which i doubt is possible until a new processor is launched in a new iPhone/iPad.

Also in iOS9 3rd party apps can request that ONLY the touch ID sensor is used to unlock the app or a part of the app, no passcode bypass. Again another reason why Apple can't just disable the touch id feature of your phone.

Thanks

Scottio200
 
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