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nooaah

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2009
1,600
165
Philadelphia, PA
To anyone siding with Apple on this:

Have you considered that Apple could just lock the phone to your iCloud account (like when it gets stolen) or automatically boot it to DFU mode so the phone only works if you restore it? That way all your data is kept safe.

Clearly Apple is tired of people not shelling out money for AppleCare.
If the phone has been modified to allow a backdoor, DFU mode won't protect your data.
 

Dr. Freeman

macrumors member
May 1, 2012
37
10
Slippery slope and reality aren't necessarily the same thing.
You aren't proving me otherwise.
I've shown there are safe ways of repairing the phone without bricking it, yet Apple is choosing to brick them on purpose.
 

H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,841
7,114
This is an inetresting twist on it tho from ASC;

Reply Helpfulby KDM666 on Feb 19, 2015 9:47 PM
Hi guys
I have to disappoint you all.
The problem is in Touch ID 1000%. If it is not original button for this particular motherboard or your touch id ribbon cable is damaged or not connected to your motherboard (at least it can be fixed)
The problem has no software solutions. At least until that moment when this topic will have thousandths of complaints about error 53. And apple will do something.
For now you can:…………………..
4)Find a guy who invented this stupid system with touch id on iPhone 6 and 6+ (5s has no such problem) - and throw your dead Brick-iPhone to his head. Maybe it will satisfy you a little.

Wonder why?

The below from TheDailyDot is also very telling of the attitude of Apple;

For starters, Apple lists 65 different numerical error codes on its website, ranging from common to rare, but Error 53 isn’t one of them. The company even addresses solutions for those who have jailbroken their devices, which the company greatly frowns upon, but doesn’t address Error 53 whatsoever.

Apple’s support forums, on the other hand, have plenty of discussion of Error 53. When a customer mentions encountering the error, the typical troubleshooting steps are recommended—things like restoring the iPhone or restarting the device—but not a single person has discovered a recommended method for restoring the device once the number 53 appears on their screen.
 

ZipZap

macrumors 603
Dec 14, 2007
6,112
1,467
To anyone siding with Apple on this:

Have you considered that Apple could just lock the phone to your iCloud account (like when it gets stolen) or automatically boot it to DFU mode so the phone only works if you restore it? That way all your data is kept safe.

Clearly Apple is tired of people not shelling out money for AppleCare.

much better approach. i own the phone, not apple.
 
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69Mustang

macrumors 604
Jan 7, 2014
7,895
15,045
In between a rock and a hard place
1. So then you are implying that there is no such thing as security updates for anything? 2.Maybe this was something originally overlooked by Apple, which was brought to their attention by companies making unauthorized touch ID sensors and these repair shops installing in iPhones. They did a software update to fix. 3.Your line of thinking means that nobody should be providing security updates after the product ships. 4. And how do you know that the replacement Touch ID will work or not after the repair if the iPhone is currently on this newest version now?
1. There was no such implication regarding security in my quote. I'd be very interested to know how you came to that conclusion based on what you read in my quote. 2. Bolded: I can't address that portion of your comment since it's speculation. Addressing it lends an undeserved credibility to something you just made up. 3. Please re-read my quote. Your response seems to indicate you're responding to something different or didn't understand what you read. 4. That information was right in the article: "He said "it worked perfectly" after the repair shop finished fixing the broken screen and home button, but once he updated to iOS 9 he got an "error 53" message and could no longer access any of his personal content on the iPhone."
 

raybo

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2007
246
269
Saint Petersburg, FL
Why is this even a story? Apple should not be held responsible for any bad thing that happens to your iPhone if you installed a non-genuine Apple component. It's a risk you take if you went to a third party who uses third party parts.
Apple's reputation is at stake. When someone sells an iPhone with compromised security, the buyer could blame Apple. These phones sometimes go through many owners, and Apple wants the important stuff to work as advertised, even on used phones.
 
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SeattleMoose

macrumors 68000
Jul 17, 2009
1,960
1,670
Der Wald
Well then that settles it. Up until now iphone thieves had two choices 1) cut off your finger or 2) replace the fingerprint scanner HW. They now know that 2) is not an option. So never give a criminal the finger!!! :eek:
 

Dr. Freeman

macrumors member
May 1, 2012
37
10
If the phone has been modified to allow a backdoor, DFU mode won't protect your data.
If a backdoor for it existed there would also be a backdoor for Error 53 don't you think?
Exactly the same reason there are almost no viruses on jailbroken iOS.
 
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windywalks

macrumors 6502a
Mar 12, 2004
606
635
I'm surprised there even was such a thing as spare third party Touch ID buttons,
I'd imagine Apple wouldn't have allowed this from the get-go for security reasons.
 

sirdir

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2006
344
780
You understand the security risks though? If someone could just install hacked touch ID sensors, then your data could be compromised. Apple has a responsibility to prevent scenarios like that.

And you don't have to get it fixed by Apple per se, but they probably need to be an authorized repair center. Otherwise what's to stop cheap repair shops from putting in Chinese knockoff TouchID sensors and putting your security and or personal information at risk?

How's that? If your phone gets stolen and the screen replaced, the thief can do nothing without your PIN.
 

Creek0512

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2012
497
450
Why?

If my iPhone is out of warranty, then I should be able to have it repaired by who ever I want.

I can see why it might be a good thing to avoid circumventing the security on stolen phones, but from a user standpoint who wants a repair, apple repairs aren't exactly the cheapest, or in the UK and other countries where apple stores are only in big cities, its a pain in the rear not being able to take it to a local phone shop.

I guess it depends which is more important to you, wasting money for the repair shop to defraud you, or actually getting your phone repaired.
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
9,231
8,894
New Hampshire, USA
LOL.. That does not explain Google pushing out monthly security updates. Do Apple do samething or you naturally think iOS is secure with all those security holes left untouched?

It has nothing to do with security updates and everything to do with your phone / fingerprint scanner.

Aren't you concerned that Google will allow your phone to be hacked by someone replacing the home / fingerprint scanner button ?
 

windywalks

macrumors 6502a
Mar 12, 2004
606
635
Well then that settles it. Up until now iphone thieves had two choices 1) cut off your finger or 2) replace the fingerprint scanner HW. They now know that 2) is not an option. So never give a criminal the finger!!! :eek:

The authentication data was never tied to the Touch ID sensor to begin with.
The key is stored within the "secure enclave" of the processor. You'd have to exchange the whole logic board and thus loose all data.
 

applezulu

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2015
324
383
I am all for fighting to make devices secure but I can't help but feel sorry for those that live in a country that has no Apple Store or Apple Authorized Service Provider. I'm very familiar with the issue and it's a very poor experience to have to travel to another country to get service or ask a family member to stop by an Apple Store during their vacation to get your device service. The issue is compounded by the fact that some Apple Stores can be very overwhelming and busy so, wait times in stores can be for hours for a wait list appointment or booked in advance 7 days out. It's just a terrible experience and I wish Apple would at least acknowledge it or do something about it. It's just not fair.

This is just something you have to think about before purchasing a product. If you live 1,000 miles from an authorized MacLaren dealer or repair shop, you should think about that before you buy a MacLaren sports car. If you buy it, you do so knowing that maintenance or repairs will require covering the cost to ship the car to an authorized shop, or alternatively, covering the cost to ship an authorized mechanic to wherever your car sits. If you buy it anyway, figuring you'll just let Bubba's Garage handle the repairs and maintenance, you do so at your own risk, knowing that Bubba will probably turn your nice car into an expensive junk heap.
 
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Mr. Donahue

macrumors 6502a
Sep 17, 2014
505
696
Two words! Apple Care! Problem solved. I would never take my expensive Apple device to anyone but Apple.

It's like taking a Ferrari to José's one Stop Brake Shop instead of the dealer. Why?
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,380
3,415
There is no such country, Macedonia. It's called FYROM.

The country calls itself and is generally known as Republic of Macedonia and it is customary to call countries by their short names (nobody says United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in everyday speech either). The country is called FYROM by those that dispute the name Republic of Macedonia, mostly just Greece and as a courtesy to Greece also the United Nations until the naming dispute is settled.
 

DUCKofD3ATH

Suspended
Jun 6, 2005
541
2,419
Universe 0 Timeline



Some iPhone 6 users who had their smartphones repaired by third-party technicians are reporting that a mysterious "error 53" message is permanently bricking their iPhones (via The Guardian). Users who have had Touch ID on their iPhone 6 fixed by a non-Apple technician, and agreed to update the iPhone to the most recent version of iOS, are facing an issue which essentially prevents all access to the iPhone.

Freelance photographer Antonio Olmos is one such affected iPhone 6 user who had his iPhone repaired in Macedonia while working. He said "it worked perfectly" after the repair shop finished fixing the broken screen and home button, but once he updated to iOS 9 he got an "error 53" message and could no longer access any of his personal content on the iPhone. An Apple Store in London was shown the issue, and staff there admitted there was nothing they could do for him besides sell him a new iPhone.

iphone_6_hands.jpg
Speaking with The Guardian, iFixit's Kyle Wiens said that the issue, while still unclear, appears to be Apple ensuring only genuine components are being used for repairs. Once a third party changes the home button or internal cable, the iPhone checks to be sure that all original components are running the phone, and if there are any discrepancies users face the "error 53" message and can't access their data. Since mentions of "error 53" span a few versions of iOS, it's unclear specifically which software update began the phone-locking error message.

An Apple spokeswoman commented on the issue, referring to protective security features intended to prevent "malicious" third-party components from potentially compromising a user's iPhone as the main reason for the "error 53" message. Other than that, Apple hasn't commented on the issue or outlined exactly what the company can do for those affected by the iPhone bricking error message. Mentions of "error 53" have been around since at least last April, where some users have encountered the issue in software updates as early as iOS 8.3.

Article Link: Users Facing 'Error 53' Bricking Message After Third-Party iPhone 6 Home Button Repairs
Apple's excuse is reasonable: "Security".

But how about, oh, I don't know...TELLING PEOPLE that they're making that change?! There are a lot of people doing Apple service around the world who need to know that using non-Apple parts will brick an iPhone.
 

gotluck

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2011
5,717
1,260
East Central Florida
There's a reason

So stick with your Android if you're going to be emotional and irrational with the vitriol. Apple doesn't disable devices with third party screen repairs. Modifying the phone's security is completely unacceptable. If they followed your indifferent ways, what would stop malicious companies and governments from just swapping out the touchid to allow access to the phone? Exactly. Get lost.

in order to install fraudulent touchid one would have to turn the phone off. passcode is required to unlock a device after reboot. I dont understand how installing fraudulent touchid will give access to a stolen phone. The OS deems the passcode as the end all be all method for the decryption of the phone

this only matters if people can replace the touchid module without ever turning the phone off after stealing it from someone
 

RedCroissant

Suspended
Aug 13, 2011
2,268
96
I'm confused about how the Apple store couldn't fix the phone of the person in the story. They couldn't replace the touch sensor and re-pair the chips? I mean, they should be able to check his ID and have him log into his apple ID account to see he's the correct owner. I've had apple repair at least 4 devices as under warranty when they probably could have told me, sorry, this really isn't our fault, and they did anyway. 2 of which were after (though not because of) repairs I did my self when I was out of the country.

It's Apple's policy to refuse repair of a device that was previously repaired with parts that were not authorized by Apple. Essentially, any repairs made by a a person that is not an Apple employee or an employee of an Authorized repair facility, then that device is no longer covered b Apple.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
You aren't proving me otherwise.
I've shown there are safe ways of repairing the phone without bricking it, yet Apple is choosing to brick them on purpose.
Safe ways from Apple, unknown if they are otherwise. Many things in life are possible, but the possibility by itself doesn't mean anything one way or another.
If a backdoor for it existed there would also be a backdoor for Error 53 don't you think?
Exactly the same reason there are almost no viruses on jailbroken iOS.
One doesn't necessarily mean the other.
 

sdf

macrumors 6502a
Jan 29, 2004
928
1,297
This is a good thing. At least we know Apple is doing their best to keep the TouchID system as secure as possible. It's not Apple's responsibility to inform customers of a repair center that they could end up with a bricked phone. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of the third party shops.

Well, I'd argue it is Apple's responsibility to inform customers that an unauthorized repair could wreck their phone. But I'm pretty sure that's one of the booklets included in the phone. It's also common sense, really.
 

pharris123

macrumors newbie
Jan 25, 2016
25
33
Why?

If my iPhone is out of warranty, then I should be able to have it repaired by who ever I want.

I can see why it might be a good thing to avoid circumventing the security on stolen phones, but from a user standpoint who wants a repair, apple repairs aren't exactly the cheapest, or in the UK and other countries where apple stores are only in big cities, its a pain in the rear not being able to take it to a local phone shop.

If my TV is out of warranty, and I bring it to someone who claims to know how to fix it, and they don't use genuine parts made for my set by the manufacturer, and then **** breaks, I should be mad at Sony? They give you a warranty, they offer repairs should something go wrong, and that's that. Apple doesn't sell their parts to outside companies other than Apple certified repair techs. If you use anyone else, the responsibility is on you.
 
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techwhiz

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2010
1,297
1,804
Northern Ca.
No manufacturer should ever render a customer device unusable without warning.
It should be all over customer documents and a page in the box that says,
"Unauthorized Repairs to home button or other security components will render your device inoperable."

Anything short of that warning printed somewhere where the customer can see it is criminal.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
It's Apple's policy to refuse repair of a device that was previously repaired with parts that were not authorized by Apple. Essentially, any repairs made by a a person that is not an Apple employee or an employee of an Authorized repair facility, then that device is no longer covered b Apple.
It might be no longer under warranty under Apple because of that but does that mean it can't be repaired by Apple as basically just a paid for repair like any other out of warranty repair?
 
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