MP 7,1 W5700X Release

[Krevnik]

Truthfully, this is all on Apple for the delay. Good for them, positive points, whatever spin you want to put on it for telling people in December 2019 they would be announcing/releasing a model with W5700X as BTO option, but three months later there have been no updates.

True. At the end of the day, the specs/etc are all on them, and it's their product. They do take the blame, wether it be because they didn't get the drivers into shape, going with a binned chip that has yield issues, or otherwise making things harder on themselves. And it's not like they have to use AMD beyond their animosity with NVidia.

It does not bode well for their new PRO focused machine strategy that they were supposed to be returning to. Seems like more of the same - get what we give you and we won't give you an update to plan ahead. It's almost embarrassing.

Although it's not like Apple really did any different. It's been like this since SJ returned to Apple in the 90s. I was kinda hoping that they might be a little more reasonable on this front going forward, and they have been pre-announcing things more than they used to. But I guess they still keep that part of Jobs' thinking too close to the heart for their own good.

 

[jasonmvp]

Seems like more of the same - get what we give you and we won't give you an update to plan ahead. It's almost embarrassing.

This little tempest in a teapot is amusing. You're not likely to buy a Mac Pro anyway, so why do you care?

 

[gabrielefx]

I bet all the new Mpx modules will be pci 4.0 compatible, also the new Mac Pro motherboard. Many years ago it was possible to upgrade the Macintosh II to the FX version replacing the motherboard. It will happen again.

 

[H. Flower]

Truthfully, this is all on Apple for the delay. Good for them, positive points, whatever spin you want to put on it for telling people in December 2019 they would be announcing/releasing a model with W5700X as BTO option, but three months later there have been no updates. It does not bode well for their new PRO focused machine strategy that they were supposed to be returning to. Seems like more of the same - get what we give you and we won't give you an update to plan ahead. It's almost embarrassing.

Yeah, starting to get that “Apple really doesn’t care about pros” feeling again in my gut. Was subsided a little by the release of the AB card and vega II . but if June rolls around and it still says coming soon ... ugh

 

[goMac]

Yeah, starting to get that “Apple really doesn’t care about pros” feeling again in my gut. Was subsided a little by the release of the AB card and vega II . but if June rolls around and it still says coming soon ... ugh

They should be cut some amount of slack. The MPX modules are made in China. And the Chinese factories are so badly delayed that even the iPhone 12 probably won’t arrive on time this year.

It has nothing to do with “pros.” All of Apple’s products are entering a delay pattern right now.

 

[deconstruct60]

I bet all the new Mpx modules will be pci 4.0 compatible, ...

Hardly much of a bet since the 2/3 of the current shipping ones have PCI-e 4 capable chips in them. Vega II base silicon is capable.

"
...
Bus Type
PCIe® 4.0 x16 ..."
https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/instinct-mi50

[ same die as the Vega II with features turned off/on. ]

Any new AMD GPU basically will have PCIe v4. Apple using a 'rebadged" , older (pre-2018) design at this point for a new MPX product is highly doubtful.

Once the W5700X ships, that will be 3/4 of line up. A 580X replacement with a AMD 5600 as discount option similarly would still be PCI-e v4 based. ( more likely Apple sits on the 580X solution until next iteration at the lowest end.).



( Nvidia is highly unlikely, but the deeper into 2020 go the more unlikely any new solution based on their chips is going to be lower than PCI-e v4 either. )

also the new Mac Pro motherboard.

As that probably isn't coming until 2021 (or later)... again not much of a bet. Even when Apple might have been on non-comatose mode of Mac Pro updates... all the products that weren't deeply into development before January are probably all sliding out into later dates now. By 2021, both Intel and AMD would have PCI-e v4 solutions in this candidate CPU package zone. Even if want to let an unlikely ARM solution into the options, the ARM N-1 baseline design has PCI-e v4 . By 2021 there isn't much to choose from in the single CPU package workstation space that isn't PCI-e v4 based. ( they'll need even more PCI-e lane re-drivers if keep the layout so the board cost will probably go up even higher. )


[/quote]
Many years ago it was possible to upgrade the Macintosh II to the FX version replacing the motherboard. It will happen again. [/quote]

Errr. probably not.

1. There is a fixed I/O daughter board in the top/front of the Mac Pro. Making that older board "snap in" and natively supported by new board probably will not be a priority.

2. Presumes there are about zero changes to the case design internally. ( not something Apple has done across Mac Pro 2006 , 2008 , 2009 models. Change in baseline chipset + CPU package routinely opened up window for shifts in internal design. ). Also that the new board has the same thermal design parameters.

3. That Apple will find nothing to 'fix' in the case design.

 

[MisterAndrew]

How on earth could you update a 2019 Mac Pro into a 2020+ model by changing the motherboard? Even if it fits you'd have the issue of the serial number. I don't see how you could legitimately get a serial number that matches the new motherboard without buying a whole new Mac Pro. If you used your old serial number (and trashed the old board) then it would be identifying itself as an older model and that could create a lot of different problems if the hardware is different.

 

[daveedjackson]

I dunno, but with the price point it is, and the amount of time it's taken to release and get it - I would be appalled, shocked and disappointed if they suddenly released an update in 6 months.

 

[skippermonkey]

I wonder if the release of the card is tied to macOS 10.15.5? OTOY's Octane X looks like it's 100% feature complete, but they can't release it without the APIs in the next update of Metal, which is due with 10.15.5. They've said the moment the 10.15.5 beta drops, they'll unleash Octane X for everyone to use – I think they're as bored of waiting for Apple as anyone.

 

[Krevnik]

How on earth could you update a 2019 Mac Pro into a 2020+ model by changing the motherboard? Even if it fits you'd have the issue of the serial number. I don't see how you could legitimately get a serial number that matches the new motherboard without buying a whole new Mac Pro. If you used your old serial number (and trashed the old board) then it would be identifying itself as an older model and that could create a lot of different problems if the hardware is different.

The speculation was that Apple would be the provider of the motherboards as an upgrade path for existing owners, which means the serial number / ROM / etc issue is moot (as they would be Apple parts already). Not that you'd upgrade it by turning it into a Hackintosh.

 

[MisterAndrew]

The speculation was that Apple would be the provider of the motherboards as an upgrade path for existing owners, which means the serial number / ROM / etc issue is moot (as they would be Apple parts already). Not that you'd upgrade it by turning it into a Hackintosh.

I wasn’t imagining a non-Apple motherboard. I meant a 2020+ Mac Pro motherboard. I don’t think Apple would provide newer motherboards as an upgrade path. New motherboards don’t come with a new serial number for the system. You’d need to buy a 2020+ Mac Pro to get a 2020+ Mac Pro serial number to match the 2020+ Mac Pro motherboard.

 

[jinnyman]

Come on. We are all certain Apple won't provide the motherboard upgrade option.

 

[Krevnik]

I wasn’t imagining a non-Apple motherboard. I meant a 2020+ Mac Pro motherboard. I don’t think Apple would provide newer motherboards as an upgrade path. New motherboards don’t come with a new serial number for the system. You’d need to buy a 2020+ Mac Pro to get a 2020+ Mac Pro serial number to match the 2020+ Mac Pro motherboard.

Now this is looking like you are trying to be obtuse. The poster was having fun speculating that it would be nice if Apple offered a motherboard only option. If Apple ever did, none of the things you brought up would even matter. Especially since Apple logic boards are what house the serial number.

Now if they don't, good luck getting an EATX or similar motherboard to fit, let alone work with all the custom connectors Apple uses to avoid using cabling inside the system, along with non-standard PSUs and the like. Serial numbers and what-not are the least of the problems.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I didn't read your comment(s) when I made my post. I was responding to comments made by gabrielefx and follow up by deconstruct60. I don't see anyone talking about non-Apple motherboards. Replacement Apple logic boards don't have their own serial number. You program them with your system's serial number. If you did that with a logic board for a newer Mac then it would think it's an older Mac. For example, a let's say you put a 2022 Mac Pro logic board in a 2019 Mac Pro and used the 2019 serial number. The Mac would think it's a 2019 and would be limited with software updates, device drivers, etc because it would be matching up to 2019 and not the correct 2022. If Apple supplied and installed the logic boards and re-certified the system as a 2022 model then that would be interesting, but I agree I don't think that's something they would do.

 

[tsialex]

I didn't read your comment(s) when I made my post. I was responding to comments made by gabrielefx and follow up by deconstruct60. I don't see anyone talking about non-Apple motherboards. Replacement Apple logic boards don't have their own serial number. You program them with your system's serial number. If you did that with a logic board for a newer Mac then it would think it's an older Mac. For example, a let's say you put a 2022 Mac Pro logic board in a 2019 Mac Pro and used the 2019 serial number. The Mac would think it's a 2019 and would be limited with software updates, device drivers, etc because it would be matching up to 2019 and not the correct 2022. If Apple supplied and installed the logic boards and re-certified the system as a 2022 model then that would be interesting, but I agree I don't think that's something they would do.

Last time Apple offered a fully supported upgrade kit was from Apple IIe to Apple IIGS, back in 86/87.

While never is a really strong and often misused word, I bet that Apple will never do this again.
[automerge]1585787237[/automerge]

 

[MisterAndrew]

I didn't know that tidbit of Apple history tsialex. Thanks.

 

[MisterAndrew]

So I did some digging around and it looks like Apple offered upgrade kits for some of their computers all the way up to 1997. For example, there was the "Power Macintosh 8500 Upgrade Kit" for the "Quadra 800, Quadra 840, or a Power Macintosh 8100."

Some info here: https://www.macrepaircentral.us/macintosh-quadra-840av/power-macintosh-upgrade-1.html

More detailed info in the Upgrades section of this manual: http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/legacy/powermac_8500_series.pdf

 

[lomahs]

My Quadra 840 AV was upgraded to PowerMacintosh 8100 1994. The 8100 "died" January 2020...

 

[mattspace]

So I did some digging around and it looks like Apple offered upgrade kits for some of their computers all the way up to 1997

Yeah, I recall the Macintosh II series had a bunch of upgrade options - IIc to IIci sort of thing

 

[tsialex]

Workgroup Server is an nice example of past upgrades paths being offered, you could get to from the Quadra 950 to Workgroup Server 9150 buying the motherboard and the faceplate. I totally forgot to cite it, even after seeing someone posting about the faceplate last month on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1234212389043789827

Anyway, Apple stopped doing that long before the Intel era.

 

[th0masp]

Why even hold out for this card? The 5700 series doesn't look too hot next to current Nvidia models and the new generation is going to come out this year.

If you are after performance then surely holding out for the next gen AMD models at this point makes more sense (unless you absolutely need the 16 GB of memory) instead of paying for last years 'workstation' card with some inflated price.

 

[Aboo]

In my case it’s only because I need more thunderbolt 3 ports and I haven’t figured out anyway to achieve that without going through a video card upgrade on the 7,1

 

[MisterAndrew]

The W5700X is newer than the current offerings and should cost less than the Vega II. Sure you can get a PC card, but I think it's nicer to have the MPX module. It would also be covered by AppleCare.

 

[th0masp]

Yeah I wouldn't expect it to be particularly cheap. I have been underestimating (sometimes vastly) every single price point of recent Apple offerings and I'd put it at 70% of the Vega 2 MPX Edition. That's ... a lot more than what you'd be paying for a 5700 XT.

From what I can see in my country, a regular Radeon VII will cost around 750 or so, the 5700 XT under 450. Apple on the other hand charges 3000 for a single Vega 2 over here. Btw. those are Euro prices including VAT.

 

[bsbeamer]

Apple themselves are referencing W5700X as the best recommend configuration for multiple use scenarios in their own white paper. Those target users still cannot even price out recommended configuration, let alone order one. It's a failure on Apple's part and very poor sign for the future of "PRO" that was supposed to be more like it was in the "old" days.

I know many who have already moved to iMac/iMacPro for the next 2-5 years. If there is an MP8,1 by then or completely refreshed guts on a semi-predictable schedule, I'm sure some will move back towards the tower. Many were waiting for W5700X to make that decision. Others are getting by with TB3 and external enclosures to house everything. Not ideal, but it gets the work done for many. The modular fashion does have some benefits, but cost is not one of them when everything is priced out.