MP 7,1 W5700X Release

[tevion5]

This gave me a business idea - contract manufacturers to produce generic, passive heatsinks in the Mac Pro style for modern graphics cards. Make them differ just enough to avoid lawsuits. Profit.
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Any takers? I'm thinking 60-40?

I wonder are the Apple included cards like the Radeon 580 Pro down-clocked or tweaked in other ways to make them able to operate in the 7,1 wind tunnel. Do people know for sure that most cards would operate alright this way?

I'll soon be swapping my Vega 64 into my 12-Core but that thing runs hot as hell in my PC. It'll be interesting to see how much the Mac Pro case actually helps it with thermals but I wouldn't be brave enough to run it without it's stock fan!

 

[goMac]

I wonder are the Apple included cards like the Radeon 580 Pro down-clocked or tweaked in other ways to make them able to operate in the 7,1 wind tunnel. Do people know for sure that most cards would operate alright this way?

I'll soon be swapping my Vega 64 into my 12-Core but that thing runs hot as hell in my PC. It'll be interesting to see how much the Mac Pro case actually helps it with thermals but I wouldn't be brave enough to run it without it's stock fan!

I don't think the 580 is down clocked. For the most part, these cards have _gigantic_ heat sinks. And the front fans passing air over the heat sinks are pretty large.

MPX is a form factor built to handle two Vegas on one card. 580 is easy for the Mac Pro to cool.

 

[AidenShaw]

This gave me a business idea - contract manufacturers to produce generic, passive heatsinks in the Mac Pro style for modern graphics cards. Make them differ just enough to avoid lawsuits. Profit.
[automerge]1578675546[/automerge]
Any takers? I'm thinking 60-40?

Teslas are already available fanless, depending on the case fans to push air over the heat sinks and out the back.

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[tevion5]

I don't think the 580 is down clocked. For the most part, these cards have _gigantic_ heat sinks. And the front fans passing air over the heat sinks are pretty large.

MPX is a form factor built to handle two Vegas on one card. 580 is easy for the Mac Pro to cool.

Hmm good points...

Those Vega II Duo cards must run up some serious heat under stress.

Will be interesting to see the thermal benefits of the Mac Pro on the usually quite toasty Vega 64 (I have to under-volt mine on PC to get full performance without overheating crashes), though I wonder if the stock blower fan design will compromise the 7,1's case cooling effectiveness.

 

[Krevnik]

Hmm good points...

Those Vega II Duo cards must run up some serious heat under stress.

To a point. Apple wanted to reduce the number of fans needed (keep them off the GPU), and keep fan speed as low as possible. Having the 4-slot wide cards lets them hit those goals.

Will be interesting to see the thermal benefits of the Mac Pro on the usually quite toasty Vega 64 (I have to under-volt mine on PC to get full performance without overheating crashes), though I wonder if the stock blower fan design will compromise the 7,1's case cooling effectiveness.

The 7,1 doesn’t really care about an aftermarket GPU when it comes to cooling. The case fans will do what they need to do, and the blower will get a flow of fresh air from them. The GPU will become the noisiest thing in the MacPro though.

But the blower could certainly be part of the reason that the Vega 64 is having problems expelling heat. They run noticeably hotter than the aftermarket coolers that card manufacturers put on their cards. I’ve not heard many good things about the Vega 64 reference designs that use blowers.

Worth giving it a try in case it does actually help though.

 

[gabrielefx]

I use Macs Fan Control

 

[deconstruct60]

Has Apple given any time frame when the W5700x will be an option for the Mac Pro? Are they just waiting for stock to build up, so it could be anytime? I was interested in purchasing one next month but if the W5700x is relatively close to release I'll wait.

Tax Day.

 

[blackie36]

Available for separate order in Australia - Just ordered 2

 

[daveedjackson]

available for standalone in UK too 1k. I assume I replace the current 580 with this, and not have both in the system.

 

[deconstruct60]

available for standalone in UK too 1k. I assume I replace the current 580 with this, and not have both in the system.

Should be able to put this MPX module into MPX bay 2 if you wanted to. Can have two MPX modules in the Mac Pro 2019.

May not want to if have "other stuff" in slots 3 and/or 4.

Hmm, USA the standalone is still off ('buy' grayed out) . However, in USA if add the W5700X to BTO the delivery window widens. In Uk, store it has no timeline impact. ( probably different flow of MP base units and configurations over the two factories coverage areas. And/or tariff avoidance. ).
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I don't think the 580 is down clocked. For the most part, these cards have _gigantic_ heat sinks. And the front fans passing air over the heat sinks are pretty large.

The 580X MPX module is only half the size of the other ones. It has a lower TDP problem but doesn't have anywhere need the "headroom" capacity that a Vega II 'Solo' has.


I don't think Apple has the 580X powered up to RX 590 TDP levels. It probably has a 'cap' on the threshold. It is meant to be a "good enough for 2D" card, they don't have to "turbo" it up to standalone 580 mainstream card levels.
( also could be using a 12nm part at the original clock speeds. )

 

[daveedjackson]

Should be able to put this MPX module into MPX bay 2 if you wanted to. Can have two MPX modules in the Mac Pro 2019.

May not want to if have "other stuff" in slots 3 and/or 4.

Hmm, USA the standalone is still off ('buy' grayed out) . However, in USA if add the W5700X to BTO the delivery window widens. In Uk, store it has no timeline impact. ( probably different flow of MP base units and configurations over the two factories coverage areas. And/or tariff avoidance. ).
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The 580X MPX module is only half the size of the other ones. It has a lower TDP problem but doesn't have anywhere need the "headroom" capacity that a Vega II 'Solo' has.


I don't think Apple has the 580X powered up to RX 590 TDP levels. It probably has a 'cap' on the threshold. It is meant to be a "good enough for 2D" card, they don't have to "turbo" it up to standalone 580 mainstream card levels.
( also could be using a 12nm part at the original clock speeds. )

sorry what I meant was I don’t have a requirement to keep both so assume it’s just a swap

 

[codehead1]

Woah, happened to check the store for the first time in weeks, W5700X went live...

PS—Mac Pro ordered, that's what I was waiting for...now to figure out the monitor situation...

 

[H. Flower]

I got excited at first to get this, and then I'm like...why? Premiere and After Effects will be just as terrible.

Should Cinema 4D and Resolve get a bump from this over the stock card?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Does anyone know what ports the apple 5700 card has on the back and how many ports? Thanks!

 

[ekwipt]

Available for separate order in Australia - Just ordered 2

why not get the MPX module? Does anybody know the difference between buying two seperate W5700X or one W5700X MPX module?

 

[Krevnik]

Does anyone know what ports the apple 5700 card has on the back and how many ports? Thanks!

According to the beauty shots, 1 HDMI, 4 TB3, just like the Vega IIs.

Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module

Upgrade or expand the graphics in your Mac Pro with the AMD Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module. With up to 9.4 teraflops of compute performance, 16GB of memory, and 448GB/s of memory bandwidth, the Radeon Pro W5700X graphics processor can deliver incredible performance. And Mac Pro can support up to...

www.apple.com

why not get the MPX module? Does anybody know the difference between buying two seperate W5700X or one W5700X MPX module?

W5700X is always an MPX module. One will use one bay, two will use two bays.

By separate order, blackie36 meant you can buy it without ordering a Mac Pro. For those who bought the 580X so they could get use while they waited for the W5700X to see what the price was.

 

[Krevnik]

The 580X MPX module is only half the size of the other ones. It has a lower TDP problem but doesn't have anywhere need the "headroom" capacity that a Vega II 'Solo' has.

I don't think Apple has the 580X powered up to RX 590 TDP levels. It probably has a 'cap' on the threshold. It is meant to be a "good enough for 2D" card, they don't have to "turbo" it up to standalone 580 mainstream card levels.
( also could be using a 12nm part at the original clock speeds. )

Yeah, it's a little downrated compared to the RX 580, but not by a huge amount.

That said, Apple also only seems interested in producing two sizes of heat sink: Dual-slot for the one card without Thunderbolt, and Quad-slot for cards with Thunderbolt. I mean, you may as well. Once you take over the second slot in an MPX bay to feed the TB3 controllers, there's not much point in leaving it accessible, you may as well use the larger heat sink.

 

[deconstruct60]

That said, Apple also only seems interested in producing two sizes of heat sink: Dual-slot for the one card without Thunderbolt, and Quad-slot for cards with Thunderbolt. I mean, you may as well. Once you take over the second slot in an MPX bay to feed the TB3 controllers, there's not much point in leaving it accessible, you may as well use the larger heat sink.

For the 'half" MPX module it isn't to feed the TB3 controllers need the MPX connector. It is really more so for two reasons. First, to pipe four DisplayPort streams to the other four TB ports on the Mac Pro ( top and I/O card in slot 8). So a nonlocal TB coupling. Second, to draw power... since MPX modules don't use cables for standard 75W PCI-e slot power.

The other side effect is that since only taken up two standard widths ( instead of four) can enable some of the Audio card setups that are much more physically wide than bandwidth intensive. ( so can put them in slot 2 ) .

Probably looking for something that is in the 150W range. ( 75W off the bus and another approximate 75W from the MPX connector . The latter is way below the max power limit, but card isn't that wide either so only have limited air flow. through. ).

But yes, once using the MPX connector for all three: Power, non local DP feed , and local TB port PCI-e bandwidth provisioning.... might as well cover up slot 2 ( or 4 ). There is pragmatically no power or bandwidth left for that slot at that point.

 

[flowrider]

Once you take over the second slot in an MPX bay to feed the TB3 controllers, there's not much point in leaving it accessible, you may as well use the larger heat sink.

Why Apple even put in that second slot is beyond me It had to add to the cost of the machine. But, I see no use for it. The only time it's open is when the base Pro580X is installed. Even my Aorus RX5700XT blocks it. I doubt any owner of the NcMP is using that slot or has any plans to use it. And it's a X8 slot.

Lou

 

[deconstruct60]

sorry what I meant was I don’t have a requirement to keep both so assume it’s just a swap

Yeah. If don't want the old one can probably sell the 580X MPX module if really don't need it anymore. I'm sure there are some folks who think $1,000 is too much and would buy the incremental 580X at a much lower price ( e.g., had 4 HDMI monitors to hook up. ).
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sorry what I meant was I don’t have a requirement to keep both so assume it’s just a swap

Yeah. If don't want the old one can probably sell the 580X MPX module if really don't need it anymore. I'm sure there are some folks who think $1,000 is too much and would buy the incremental 580X at a much lower price ( e.g., had 4 HDMI monitors to hook up. ).
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why not get the MPX module? Does anybody know the difference between buying two seperate W5700X or one W5700X MPX module?

THe W5700X is an MPX module. If get two that is collectively more horsepower than one Vega II 'Solo' for less money. ( $2K instead of $2800 : USA prices ). For an application can deal with two discrete GPUs that is probably better processing throughput times. ( 2 * 9.4 TFLOPS is ~ 18 TFLOPS and combined 32GB VRAM vs 14 TFLOPs and 32GB HBM2 for a massive more internal space trade-off . 2 bays versus on bay. ).

The W5700X is also like the Vega II 'Solo' in that it only provisions 2 DisplayPort streams to the internal two Thunderbolt controllers. If wanted a very high resolution monitor on both the back and top TB ports then would need a second W5700X in Bay 2 to 'drive' one of the top ports. That could drive 6 XDRs ( probably no huge need for that, but it is an option. )


For Apps that can leverage the Infinity fabric link between two Vega II 'Solo's ( or a Duo's two and/or between two Duo's ) the two W5700X set up is not as effective. It may be more effective in $/performance though in more than a few cases though.

 

[Krevnik]

For the 'half" MPX module it isn't to feed the TB3 controllers need the MPX connector. It is really more so for two reasons. First, to pipe four DisplayPort streams to the other four TB ports on the Mac Pro ( top and I/O card in slot 8). So a nonlocal TB coupling. Second, to draw power... since MPX modules don't use cables for standard 75W PCI-e slot power.

I’ll be honest, I’m not really sure what you are trying to say here, or what you are trying to correct in my statement, if anything. What I do get from this isn’t new knowledge to me though, so I’m still a bit lost as to what you think I misspoke on?

Why Apple even put in that second slot is beyond me View attachment 906296 It had to add to the cost of the machine. But, I see no use for it. The only time it's open is when the base Pro580X is installed. Even my Aorus RX5700XT blocks it. I doubt any owner of the NcMP is using that slot or has any plans to use it. And it's a X8 slot.

Lou

To be fair, the Aorus cards are absolute units with hilariously large shrouds. There really isn’t much in the way of bigger GPUs on the market, other than Apple’s. I’m a bit surprised that there aren’t more 5700 XTs similar to the Pulse and Nitro designs that are proper 2 slot designs.

But it probably didn’t add a whole lot to the cost of the machine. Pennies in terms of BOM for the slot, practically nothing on the PCB cost. And it’s possible the mechanism for sharing the lanes with the MPX connector is simpler than we think. They may leave the slot ”active” knowing it will be blocked by the MPX module, even. I kinda hope not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.

 

[vel0city]

I got excited at first to get this, and then I'm like...why? Premiere and After Effects will be just as terrible.

Should Cinema 4D and Resolve get a bump from this over the stock card?

The next version (R22) of C4D's viewport will be optimised for Metal and actually requires a Metal compatible GPU. My guess is that Redshift RT will be powering the viewport. So with the W5700X you will likely see an improvement over the stock GPU. But never buy new hardware for what might be, wait and see first.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Why Apple even put in that second slot is beyond me View attachment 906296 It had to add to the cost of the machine. But, I see no use for it. The only time it's open is when the base Pro580X is installed. Even my Aorus RX5700XT blocks it. I doubt any owner of the NcMP is using that slot or has any plans to use it. And it's a X8 slot.

Lou

‘I have a wx 9100 card in there, much better than the 580 (which I removed) and it leaves those slots open.

 

[profdraper]

Interesting: when Apple advertised for many weeks that the W5700X was 'coming soon', like the Vega II it showed this as available as single and 'DUO', ie one or two of these in a single MPX chassis. Now at release, it now simply shows as one or two separate cards & no DUO. Not nearly as interesting & burning slots for what is likely a basic (maybe underwhelming) card. Gone as an option for me. Shall await big Navi to see how that looks a bit later. I wonder why they reneged on the DUO ....

 

[bsbeamer]

The DUO was always two separate cards/GPUs.