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icymountain

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2006
535
598
So lecturing is a big part of your profession and you don't carry either a USB-C -> HDMI cable or got a laptop with a dedicated HDMI port instead?

Where did I say that ? What makes you even assume I am that sloppy ?

For the records, I am typically carrying two laptops when giving a presentation that I cannot afford to fail. For such things, I took my 2017 15" MBP w TB once, and it crashed when I plugged the projector, BOTH with the Apple VGA dongle and with a third party port hub with HDMI. I did not have time to investigate, and used my backup (an 11" MBA that worked just fine). Not quite a success for the new connectors.
I did not give the new 15" another chance since then, as I do not have much free time to do testing, and use my older 11" MBA and 13" MBP, both of which never crashed when doing presentations. I will eventually try again...
 

Wreckus

macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2015
1,149
731
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
What's the point of this thread when there will be a "wait until 2019 MacBook Pro Update if you can" thread when the 2018 MacBook pro's are available.

Boohoo, they removed HDMI, USB ports, etc, etc. That's life, you can't get everything you want all the time. I went from a laptop that had all that to this MacBook Pro and I honestly don't miss any of those ports. Sure, I had to buy a 25.00 adapter to use the usb dongle for my gaming mouse, But I realized that when I bough the MBP. But that's life.
 

New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
1,931
1,552
Shanghai
What's the point of this thread when there will be a "wait until 2019 MacBook Pro Update if you can" thread when the 2018 MacBook pro's are available.

Boohoo, they removed HDMI, USB ports, etc, etc. That's life, you can't get everything you want all the time. I went from a laptop that had all that to this MacBook Pro and I honestly don't miss any of those ports. Sure, I had to buy a 25.00 adapter to use the usb dongle for my gaming mouse, But I realized that when I bough the MBP. But that's life.

OP has a habit of making threads like this . Of course there will be another wait for XXXX or someone suggesting a rumour of something else coming.

New laptops (every) year. No one forcing anyone to upgrade, very few people need the latest, can always hold on until the tech surrounding a product matures or get the latest tech and adjust. Aways the scenario for early adopters. Obviously if no one brought anything new then the old or current stuff would carry on, and no one would have any incentive to progress the tech. We'd still be using usb-a and vga for everything because that worked absolutely fine...

For what it's worth I actually have zero problem with connectivity, it's 2017 after all, pretty much everything I use is wireless. I got a new cable for backup drives and a USB-A adapter as it's silly not to carry one at the moment, and an hdmi cable for entertainment. I got this thing to work on, be portable, and flexible. Don't need it to connect to everything under the sun with dedicated cables and would much rather have a portable laptop than a gimped desktop. So that's my angle anyway.
 

ibivibiv

macrumors regular
May 5, 2015
166
307
OP has a habit of making threads like this . Of course there will be another wait for XXXX or someone suggesting a rumour of something else coming.

New laptops (every) year. No one forcing anyone to upgrade, very few people need the latest, can always hold on until the tech surrounding a product matures or get the latest tech and adjust. Aways the scenario for early adopters. Obviously if no one brought anything new then the old or current stuff would carry on, and no one would have any incentive to progress the tech. We'd still be using usb-a and vga for everything because that worked absolutely fine...

For what it's worth I actually have zero problem with connectivity, it's 2017 after all, pretty much everything I use is wireless. I got a new cable for backup drives and a USB-A adapter as it's silly not to carry one at the moment, and an hdmi cable for entertainment. I got this thing to work on, be portable, and flexible. Don't need it to connect to everything under the sun with dedicated cables and would much rather have a portable laptop than a gimped desktop. So that's my angle anyway.

The conference rooms with an Apple TV are awesome. No problems at all, just airplay. The problem is the world of IT has not bought into the Apple bandwagon fully. And yes, I am on a 2013 and will stay there until the laptops and connectivity align. The point is just is not a good move for Apple to leave all that money laying on the table in the name of being "courageous". Makes no sense at all. I think that if they had put an HDMI port in you wouldn't have cared and MANY more people would have upgraded. See that point? Not a wise business move at this point. Maybe if they did this a few years from now it wouldn't have hurt their sales as much. Yes, I know they are making plenty of money. But tell me with a straight face they wouldn't have liked to make more? The complaint LEVEL on this Macbook Pro release was much larger than in the past. Yes everyone grumbles a little, but this one was quite a stir. Doesn't make much sense for Apple as a business.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,474
40,348
I think that if they had put an HDMI port in you wouldn't have cared and MANY more people would have upgraded.

Also, if we are talking about the 15" specifically..
Good lord Apple - Put 2 USB-C on one side and an HDMI, USB-A and SD on the other side.

USB-C is a dongle-fest anyways, so more than 2 USB-C seems pointless, especially if Apple themselves were to release a 1st party "USB-C to several USB-C" dongle if you really need more than the 2 on one side.

I'm sure "all and only USB-C" will be fine at some point in the future (I think...not super confident), but it sure as hell isn't a good move for 2016/2017/2018
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
Where did I say that ? What makes you even assume I am that sloppy ?

For the records, I am typically carrying two laptops when giving a presentation that I cannot afford to fail. For such things, I took my 2017 15" MBP w TB once, and it crashed when I plugged the projector, BOTH with the Apple VGA dongle and with a third party port hub with HDMI. I did not have time to investigate, and used my backup (an 11" MBA that worked just fine). Not quite a success for the new connectors.
I did not give the new 15" another chance since then, as I do not have much free time to do testing, and use my older 11" MBA and 13" MBP, both of which never crashed when doing presentations. I will eventually try again...

Been their myself, Apple's evangelist's don't change a thing dongles have always and will very likely to remain to be another level of complexity increasing the potential for failure.

Apple is ever more a design company, a USB C only notebook allows Apple to execute it's design philosophy, equally this now results in a notebook that is now significantly compromised for many and reliant on third party solution's. Seemingly port symmetry is now prioritised over the users needs and usability, let alone reliability.

Apple is designing the MBP to appeal to the largest audience, with many having little to no use for ports, it shows. IF Apple was serious about USB C/TB-3 their full size docks would exist, they don't. IMHO Apple's sole interest in USB C is the aesthetic; symmetry and thinner for the sake of it

With many Apple has now burnt it's reputation, with the 14/15 MBP's being more usable in the real world, and the 16/17 more eye candy, sacrificing reliability, battery capacity, usability, and a port solution that works against any form of common sense, making adaptors & dongles near mandatory and conveniently an enhanced revenue stream for Apple.

What irritates Apple could do so much more rather than solely focusing on making everything pointlessly thinner. New Surface Book 2 is a notebook I once only envisaged Apple would be capable of designing and bringing to market. Today the MBP is fast becoming a joke in some circles, nor is it surprising...

Q-6
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,474
40,348
Apple is designing the MBP to appeal to the largest audience

It's so maddening.
I really wish we could have a 13 & 15 that are updated versions of the 2015 models.

Bury them on the website. Make them BTO online only...
Call them "MacBook Pro: Dinosaurs"

I really don't give a ***

I just want the tools that help me work to be updated with the latest internals as we go along without making them more constrained and less useful/reliable...
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
It's so maddening.
I really wish we could have a 13 & 15 that are updated versions of the 2015 models.

Bury them on the website. Make the BTO online only...
Call them "MacBook Pro: Dinosaurs"

I really don't give a ***

I just want the tools that help me work to be updated with the latest internals as we go along without making them more constrained and less useful/reliable...

Apple once designed & produced the very best it possibly could, now it's metric has significantly changed. Apple now designs & produces what delivers the most margin, literally nickel & diming it's customers at every turn.

Apple's sole interest in the professional user is limited to evangelising it's product, not meeting their needs hence the current tragic Mac line up. This is why we now see so few now using the Mac professionally, nor do expect the current trend to reverse...

Q-6
 
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KGB7

Suspended
Jun 15, 2017
925
753
Rockville, MD
Where did I say that ? What makes you even assume I am that sloppy ?

For the records, I am typically carrying two laptops when giving a presentation that I cannot afford to fail. For such things, I took my 2017 15" MBP w TB once, and it crashed when I plugged the projector, BOTH with the Apple VGA dongle and with a third party port hub with HDMI. I did not have time to investigate, and used my backup (an 11" MBA that worked just fine). Not quite a success for the new connectors.
I did not give the new 15" another chance since then, as I do not have much free time to do testing, and use my older 11" MBA and 13" MBP, both of which never crashed when doing presentations. I will eventually try again...

You can’t use “new connectors” as a scapegoat for the issues your were having, with out knowing what caused the problem in the first place.
That’s like saying; cars with 6 cylinder engines are crap just because your 4 cilynder car never failed you.
 
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vxh.viet

macrumors member
Oct 4, 2017
35
45
Anyone has followed the external gpu scene know TB3 has already had bandwidth issue. Yes, I'm talking about a niche market but it's a good indicator of the vicious cycle keep repeating itself.
Before long, we will have the usb-d, TB4, dongle fest all over again.

It's just the way technology is. It moves so fast that it's very hard to keep everything in sync. And then, the only deciding factor is the manufacturer's willingness to make it as painless as possible for their customers, not forcing them to follow their pointless idealization.

I have no problem for paying more for high quality hardware. But knowing the manufacturer doesn't want to prioritize their customer's needs but instead milk the sh*t out of them make it very hard to pull the trigger, psychologically.

Paying top dollar for a high end machine and then require the customer to pay more for usable ports is a joke itself. But intentionally keeping a good design like the 2015 with very outdated cpu, gpu, sdd... while charging premium dollar for it, I find that outrageous.
 

Naimfan

Suspended
Jan 15, 2003
4,669
2,017
Apple once designed & produced the very best it possibly could, now it's metric has significantly changed. Apple now designs & produces what delivers the most margin, literally nickel & diming it's customers at every turn.

Apple's sole interest in the professional user is limited to evangelising it's product, not meeting their needs hence the current tragic Mac line up. This is why we now see so few now using the Mac professionally, nor do expect the current trend to reverse...

Q-6

Case in point re nickel and diming everything: bought a second USB-C power adapter recently? $79 USD. Same price as Magsafe 2 adapter. But the 2m connecting USB-C cable is another $19, and the extension cord is another $19, making a total of $117 plus tax, almost 50% more than before.
 

KGB7

Suspended
Jun 15, 2017
925
753
Rockville, MD
Apple once designed & produced the very best it possibly could, now it's metric has significantly changed. Apple now designs & produces what delivers the most margin, literally nickel & diming it's customers at every turn.

Apple's sole interest in the professional user is limited to evangelising it's product, not meeting their needs hence the current tragic Mac line up. This is why we now see so few now using the Mac professionally, nor do expect the current trend to reverse...

Q-6

They do have to payoff the new Apple Park in the shortest period of time. And with any company, everyone has bad years.
Apple didn’t always designed and produced the very best it possibly could, they had a fare share history of failures and mistakes. No company is perfect and with out its flaws.

But, Apple does take big risks by pushing and chalanging the market and customers with new designes and products. That’s why they are worth so much and they are number 1 brand in the world.

And you have to take risks to succeed, even if you do make mistakes. Mistakes are part of the success, and if you not trying then you won’t make mistakes.

Don’t love a company because it’s perfect, love it for its faults.
[doublepost=1510532781][/doublepost]
Anyone has followed the external gpu scene know TB3 has already had bandwidth issue. Yes, I'm talking about a niche market but it's a good indicator of the vicious cycle keep repeating itself.
Before long, we will have the usb-d, TB4, dongle fest all over again.

It's just the way technology is. It moves so fast that it's very hard to keep everything in sync. And then, the only deciding factor is the manufacturer's willingness to make it as painless as possible for their customers, not forcing them to follow their pointless idealization.

I have no problem for paying more for high quality hardware. But knowing the manufacturer doesn't want to prioritize their customer's needs but instead milk the sh*t out of them make it very hard to pull the trigger, psychologically.

Paying top dollar for a high end machine and then require the customer to pay more for usable ports is a joke itself. But intentionally keeping a good design like the 2015 with very outdated cpu, gpu, sdd... while charging premium dollar for it, I find that outrageous.

That’s why you buy what you need today and for the next 1-2 years tops, bare minimum. We no longer live in the 90’s or early 00’s. Now days, technology is moving, changing and evolving at rapid pace. So it’s foolish to commit to single thing financialy and technology for a long haul.

That’s why I’m still using my 6 year old Dell laptop. Not because of various connections it has to offer that I rarely use but, because I don’t won’t heavily invest in to something that might become outdated with in 6 -12 month. That’s why this year, I bought a $300 iPad and a new 3 year old iPhone 6s Plus. I want to experience Apple products and its ecosystem with out spending stupid money.

Same reason I won’t buy an electric car. 3 years from now, there will be new batteries that will triple the distance and charge rate, while Im stuck with outdated battery tech while still making monthly payments. Plus I prefer diesel, but that’s a conversation for another topic.
 
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killawat

macrumors 68000
Sep 11, 2014
1,961
3,609
Case in point re nickel and diming everything: bought a second USB-C power adapter recently? $79 USD. Same price as Magsafe 2 adapter. But the 2m connecting USB-C cable is another $19, and the extension cord is another $19, making a total of $117 plus tax, almost 50% more than before.

I agree, that's pretty annoying. I mean yeah the USB-C charger can charge everything but it's a MacBook Charger foremost so should include the necessary bits.

Actually I was/am very upset about Apple not including a grounded/extension duck head with each 2016+ MBP. Then you have people posting why their MacBook is giving them "electric vibration". I aint hurting for those, I have like 20 of them for some reason. But I refuse to plug my $2500 machine into an ungrounded outlet (and in the mean time it's only fed by tasty ISOBAR surge protectors). I even put out a PSA in the early days...almost a year ago today.

Electrical/Buzz/Tingly Feel on Ungrounded MBP
 

ibivibiv

macrumors regular
May 5, 2015
166
307
I’ve said a few times on this thread this latest iteration of the MacBook Pro felt more like an upsell to the MacBook line and less like a pro release. Like some genius said how can we squeeze more money out of the Starbucks crowd instead of how can we deliver a machine that appeals to professionals .
[doublepost=1510545325][/doublepost]Put differently it reminds me of their marketing ploy for the iPhone line ; put all the whiz bang gimmicks on the more expensive one and upsell.
 

New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
1,931
1,552
Shanghai
I agree, that's pretty annoying. I mean yeah the USB-C charger can charge everything but it's a MacBook Charger foremost so should include the necessary bits.

Actually I was/am very upset about Apple not including a grounded/extension duck head with each 2016+ MBP. Then you have people posting why their MacBook is giving them "electric vibration". I aint hurting for those, I have like 20 of them for some reason. But I refuse to plug my $2500 machine into an ungrounded outlet (and in the mean time it's only fed by tasty ISOBAR surge protectors). I even put out a PSA in the early days...almost a year ago today.

Electrical/Buzz/Tingly Feel on Ungrounded MBP

That's been a thing for MacBooks for many years, and any electrical device with a metal casing. A lot of electrical devices don't use ground, and instead internally ground. Some countries also don't have standardised ground sockets, only really the UK that has an efficient system there. But they haven't included a ground adapter for many years, you can use the extension cord which has it though. On something like a modern thing though it's not causing any damage, just a slight tingly sensation due to your nerves picking up trace electrical signals. It's better to use ground if it's available though and it was a bit of an odd decision to not include that cable, but then that's just the way things have been going with a lot of things really.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
They do have to payoff the new Apple Park in the shortest period of time. And with any company, everyone has bad years.
Apple didn’t always designed and produced the very best it possibly could, they had a fare share history of failures and mistakes. No company is perfect and with out its flaws.

But, Apple does take big risks by pushing and chalanging the market and customers with new designes and products. That’s why they are worth so much and they are number 1 brand in the world.

And you have to take risks to succeed, even if you do make mistakes. Mistakes are part of the success, and if you not trying then you won’t make mistakes.

Don’t love a company because it’s perfect, love it for its faults.

I tend to agree, equally Apple should balance the risk, and learn from the past, equally Apple does and it does not. I guess the intensified shift of the MBP to appeal to the masses doesn't help either. I don't blame Apple and as much as many here dislike Tim Cook he's an outstanding CEO delivering exactly what he should. All the same I would love Apple to produce a worthy professional focused notebook, similar to the iMac Pro; gives us the technology advancements, give us a realistic port solution, maximum battery capacity, multiple drives, stop the thinner for the sake of it nonsense, as many want a great OS X notebook, not a toy to impress :mad:

Sadly will never happen...:(

Q-6
 
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mamedarling

macrumors newbie
Feb 17, 2011
7
2
Ok, so can I jump in with my wait vs go-ahead question? I'm using a 15 inch mid-2012 MBP. It's 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7 with 8 GB of RAM. It's also glacial. I'm a writer, so not a high-power user, but I have about 40 tabs open on my browser window open at any given minute, along with Preview and MS Word, and I'd really like a decent sized screen. I would also one day love to play the Sims on my computer without shutting everything else down.

I also tend to try to opt for the best processor and highest RAM possible when buying a new computer, in hopes that it'll last a while (hence, the fact that I'm still using a 2012 model).

The problem is, I have zero interest in a touchbar, and buying the MBP with the touchbar appears to be the only way to get those better specs. I've been considering trying to figure out a way to wait until 2018 to see if they drop the touchbar on the higher-end 15 inch MBPs. Does this seem like a reasonable plan? Trying to get some input.
 
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ibivibiv

macrumors regular
May 5, 2015
166
307
Ok, so can I jump in with my wait vs go-ahead question? I'm using a 15 inch mid-2012 MBP. It's 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7 with 8 GB of RAM. It's also glacial. I'm a writer, so not a high-power user, but I have about 40 tabs open on my browser window open at any given minute, along with Preview and MS Word, and I'd really like a decent sized screen. I would also one day love to play the Sims on my computer without shutting everything else down.

I also tend to try to opt for the best processor and highest RAM possible when buying a new computer, in hopes that it'll last a while (hence, the fact that I'm still using a 2012 model).

The problem is, I have zero interest in a tough bar, and buying the MBP with the touch bar appears to be the only way to get those better specs. I've been considering trying to figure out a way to wait until 2018 to see if they drop the touch bar on the higher-end 15-inch MBPs. Does this seem like a reasonable plan? Trying to get some input.

I doubt they "drop" the touch bar. My hope is they offer a 15" non-touch bar as an option. This is all just a copy of the iPhone marketing strategy. Let's try to get more money from people that don't really need more horsepower with some gimmicky add-ons. I just wish they would have released this year's pro as the "Plus" line and done a tech refresh on the Pro line. Then they could have had their margins bump on the Plus profit rake and kept the Pro line for actual professional users.
 

mutemind

macrumors newbie
Nov 16, 2017
1
1
I'm only waiting for the next lineup to see if they update the processor and offer a touchbar-less 15".

I'd really prefer if they did that. regardless i'm still getting the new 15"
 
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KGB7

Suspended
Jun 15, 2017
925
753
Rockville, MD
Take a look at the newest Dell with 8th generation Intel CPU. The CPU does well in benchmarks but, but it performs poorly in real word environment against 7th gen.

Time will tell what Apple will offer with 2018 MacBooks.
Would be nice if I could get MBP with out touch bar and with a discrete GPU.
 
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ibivibiv

macrumors regular
May 5, 2015
166
307
I would really prefer a touchscreen over a touch bar. I can't tell you how many times myself and others reach up to touch the screen to interact with it. It's becoming second nature to users at this point.
 
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New_Mac_Smell

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2016
1,931
1,552
Shanghai
I would really prefer a touchscreen over a touch bar. I can't tell you how many times myself and others reach up to touch the screen to interact with it. It's becoming second nature to users at this point.

I love it when Project Managers decide to point something out by touching the screen myself... It's fine if you're just doing Word documents, but if you're using the screen as a creative tool it's a sodding nightmare having fingerprints over it. Nothing like spending 5 minutes unsuccessfully erasing a blemish on an image only to notice it's a smudge on the screen when you move the image!

I don't understand touchscreen laptops at all, it's a stupid idea on a traditional computer. On a detachable it makes obvious perfect sense, but when I have a keyboard/trackpad, there's no need to be touching up the computer constantly.
 

mcpryon2

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2008
505
88
I love it when Project Managers decide to point something out by touching the screen myself... It's fine if you're just doing Word documents, but if you're using the screen as a creative tool it's a sodding nightmare having fingerprints over it. Nothing like spending 5 minutes unsuccessfully erasing a blemish on an image only to notice it's a smudge on the screen when you move the image!

I don't understand touchscreen laptops at all, it's a stupid idea on a traditional computer. On a detachable it makes obvious perfect sense, but when I have a keyboard/trackpad, there's no need to be touching up the computer constantly.

I've noticed this, too. In the computer lab the screens of the iMacs are just covered in fingerprints from being touched by the students. And when they point something out on one of my computers they'll touch my screen and my soul burns as I reach for my cloth.

I don't get a touchscreen computer. I've never stopped and wanted to reach up and touch the screen. But I use keyboard shortcuts so when I get editing time saved is valuable.

We have a Lenovo touchscreen laptop that we use for live-streaming events when we don't use a switcher...we disabled the touch screen because people kept touching it when pointing stuff out and not realizing what it was. But again, it makes no sense to me, just like the touchbar on my MBP which is completely useless to me, but maybe they aren't making it for me.
 
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