Wait for Next Years 2018 MacBook Pro Update if You Can

[KGB7]

Not changing the goal posts at all, so what you are saying is to fix the problem we should ask every company in the world to change their products to add a USB-C connector for video so in a professional setting like a conference room we can accommodate Apple's "bravery" and foresight for what we all need to do? That makes no sense at all. Apple has been a great product company throughout history for making things that "just work" and are intuitive and meet needs, even the ones you didn't realize you had. This is a serious deviation from that. Even in the past when they put out products with Thunderbolt that really wasn't used outside the Apple ecosphere they were clever enough to include other ports. This move makes no sense. And to the statement that complaining gets you nowhere, look no further than their stated change in direction of the Mac Pro line. They did this same garbage there with the donut design and realized their mistake and altered course. But it took people telling them to tell Ive's to stuff it and stop trying to sacrifice utility for "elegance" to get it done.


https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2014/04/daisychainmacpro.jpg

oh boy, I'm so glad the Mac Pro was so simple and Elegant.........

Eventually hdmi will get faded out, just like rca ports and cables, or FireWire. It takes time and forcing costumers to a new standard across ALL products over night, would be a disaster on many levels.
Bitching and complaining like you are doing, is not going to change anything, you can’t and you shouldn’t try to stop progress. Learn to adopt to changes, you honestly don’t have a choice. Because I would love to see one cable and one standardized plug on all devices that does everything.....but.... it will take time.

 

[ibivibiv]

Eventually hdmi will get faded out, just like rca ports and cables, or FireWire. It takes time and forcing costumers to a new standard across ALL products over night, would be a disaster on many levels.
Bitching and complaining like you are doing, is not going to change anything, you can’t and you shouldn’t try to stop progress. Learn to adopt to changes, you honestly don’t have a choice. Because I would love to see one cable and one standardized plug on all devices that does everything.....but.... it will take time.

So then you would agree that having an HDMI port on the Apple TV is wrong? Why doesn't it have a USB-C in the name of the future? My point is that Apple for whatever reason decided to remove a port that is currently and will be for the foreseeable future "the standard" port for video. If they thought that USB-C was the standard then the Apple TV would carry a USB-C as well, but it doesn't. So, on one hand, they treat a port as not the standard and on another, they treat it as the standard. And yes sales are up, they took forever to do a refresh. When you go from stagnation to a release that happens. I'm just saying the overall product gets some serious frustration from users I observe on a daily basis in the environment that Apple was targeting.

 

[KGB7]

So then you would agree that having an HDMI port on the Apple TV is wrong? Why doesn't it have a USB-C in the name of the future? My point is that Apple for whatever reason decided to remove a port that is currently and will be for the foreseeable future "the standard" port for video. If they thought that USB-C was the standard then the Apple TV would carry a USB-C as well, but it doesn't. So, on one hand, they treat a port as not the standard and on another, they treat it as the standard. And yes sales are up, they took forever to do a refresh. When you go from stagnation to a release that happens. I'm just saying the overall product gets some serious frustration from users I observe on a daily basis in the environment that Apple was targeting.

Lol..

That question was already answered but, I’ll answer it again.

Because no tv has usb-c port. It will take time for tv manufacturers to add usb-c ports to tv’s and phase out usb and hdmi. Just look at how long usb has been around.
Be patient.

 

[ibivibiv]

Sure, it just sucks that they skipped that one port that is so obviously still the standard. Also TVs, monitors, projectors don't change over anywhere near as fast as laptops/computers. I could see if say 30-40% of those products had USB-C native Apple making this move. But with 0%, they are too far ahead this time. Seems like a good move in a couple of years for them. Especially on a device with lots of space. On tablets, I get it. There is super limited space and sticking an extremely utilitarian port like USB-C makes sense. But once again Apple breaks from their unified direction and we get a lightning still? Their connectivity story is all over the board. This all USB-C move seems like a cheap attempt to save money on manufacturing and make it on dongles honestly. That is sad to see happen.

 

[Naimfan]

Lol..

It will take time for tv manufacturers to add usb-c ports to tv’s and phase out usb and hdmi. Just look at how long usb has been around.
Be patient.

What about people who need to work NOW?

The 2016/17 MBPs fail at that.

All Apple needed to do was convert the TB2 ports on the 2015 models to USB-C and leave the 2 USB-A ports. Problem avoided. Instead, Apple has created machines that are an absolute pain in the a$$ to use NOW.

 

[KGB7]

What about people who need to work NOW?

The 2016/17 MBPs fail at that.

All Apple needed to do was convert the TB2 ports on the 2015 models to USB-C and leave the 2 USB-A ports. Problem avoided. Instead, Apple has created machines that are an absolute pain in the a$$ to use NOW.

Buy a dongle or a cable. Problem solved.

 

[Naimfan]

Buy a dongle or a cable. Problem solved.

You miss the point.

Apple used to just work. Now, it does not without "Buy a dongle or a cable." People shouldn't have to.

I'm glad to be rid of the 2016 and 2017 models I've had.

 

[jerryk]

You miss the point.

Apple used to just work. Now, it does not without "Buy a dongle or a cable." People shouldn't have to.

I'm glad to be rid of the 2016 and 2017 models I've had.

The thing that bothers me about the USB-C issue is that Apple did not have to do that. The other manufactures have USB-C AND USB A connections. Why could Apple have not done 2 of each?

 

[KGB7]

You miss the point.

Apple used to just work. Now, it does not without "Buy a dongle or a cable." People shouldn't have to.

I'm glad to be rid of the 2016 and 2017 models I've had.

I don’t know if you were around times, when you couldn’t connect your pc or laptop to a tv for many years. Now with so many options, that’s still not good enough.
Can’t please everyone.

 

[Naimfan]

The thing that bothers me about the USB-C issue is that Apple did not have to do that. The other manufactures have USB-C AND USB A connections. Why could Apple have not done 2 of each?

Exactly correct. Change the TB2 to USB-C on the 2015 chassis. Best of both worlds.

 

[KGB7]

The thing that bothers me about the USB-C issue is that Apple did not have to do that. The other manufactures have USB-C AND USB A connections. Why could Apple have not done 2 of each?

Cleaner look and a chance to push one standard for everyone to adopt to?
Just a guess.

Why have 5 different plugs and standards, when we can adopt 1 for everything??

 

[ibivibiv]

And to be fair I think on a Macbook having a single kind of port is a great idea. Heck if they wanted to make a "Plus" model like I said before and put on a touchbar and a few more USB-C ports that is a great idea. Taking the Pro line and taking away extremely utilitarian features and replacing them with gimmicks and less utilitarian things is just a strange move. It feels like they wanted to make a premium line to upsell a Macbook user at the sacrifice of true Pro user's needs.
[doublepost=1510333441][/doublepost]

Cleaner look and a chance to push one standard for everyone to adopt to?
Just a guess.

Why have 5 different plugs and standards, when we can adopt 1 for everything??

Yeah, this is very elegant looking lol:

 

[turbineseaplane]

Cleaner look and a chance to push one standard for everyone to adopt to?

Sadly it's not cleaner looking with dongles hanging out the side and the only thing actually "standard" about USB-C is the shape of the plug. What goes into it and what's inside a given machine using it is totally obfuscated for the user.

This is actually a step in reverse right now, as you can't know and be guaranteed what compatibility, performance and features you'll get from something you plug into the universally shaped (and great) USB-C plug hole.

 

[KGB7]

Sadly it's not cleaner looking with dongles hanging out the side and the only thing actually "standard" about USB-C is the shape of the plug. What goes into it and what's inside a given machine using it is totally obfuscated for the user.

This is actually a step in reverse right now, as you can't know and be guaranteed what compatibility, performance and features you'll get from something you plug into the universally shaped (and great) USB-C plug hole.

And its cleaner to have 4 types of cables plugged in to your laptop simultaneously instead of 1??

Hmm....Interesting.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And its cleaner to have 4 types of cables plugged in to your laptop simultaneously instead of 1??

Not at all!

It's the same spaghetti...the difference being all the different cables plugged in to the 2015 model will function as intended and you'll know precisely what you're getting or not performance and capability wise from each.

I think the implication about "cleaner" was more about Ive having a Jony-Gasm about just 4 ports, all the same, in some monolithic space movie mentality.

 

[tim1000]

I wonder if the 2018 will get an updated keyboard or redesign of any

 

[KGB7]

Not at all!

It's the same spaghetti...the difference being all the different cables plugged in to the 2015 model will function as intended and you'll know precisely what you're getting or not performance and capability wise from each.

I think the implication about "cleaner" was more about Ive having a Jony-Gasm about just 4 ports, all the same, in some monolithic space movie mentality.

I get what you saying.

Take my Dell laptop for example; it has all the usual ports but I rarely use them. Sure it’s nice to have them when I need them but, that’s because usb-c is not a standard across all platforms and products..yet.
I had laptops with serial port, vga port, dial up modems, then dvi port, now it’s hdmi and usb3. But the cables them self are thick and bulky to carry around. Usb3 cable that came with my external drive is 2-3 thicker than the usb-c cable. Than there is lan cable that I carry around just in case I need it. All those cables add up to a bulky bundle. It’s inconvenient.

The only time I’ll use lan cable is:
a. I need to connect to a network for troubleshooting or set up new WiFi router/access point.
b. Because my WiFi card cant handle multiple connections while torrenting.
Today’s WiFi cards are much better at handling multiple connections for torrenting then they were 5 years ago.

Take a look at iPad forum. Some people are trying with some success to replace laptops with iPad. And limitations are not because of lack of connections, but do to iOS limitations. iOS is not at the level of a laptop/pc/mac OS level yet. And yet, many people are fine with just single cable.

Almost forgot. The MacBook/pro would not be as thin if it had all the usual ports that we are used to.
The first time I saw MacBook Air when it first came out, I was personally blown away how thin it was and still is. Yes had a moment of “wtf” when none of the standard ports were present, but it’s light and thin.

At the end of the day, I think imho, most people don’t need all the ports, because we don’t use them on regular basis at work, at home or at a coffee shops.
And the Techs in IT world like my self, stick with computers that have all the ports as we need them to accomplish our job but, we are a minority.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

If the issue is with not being able to hook it up to a projector, why aren't places where people work following the basic steps that every company I've been to uses?

There is always 1 PC hooked up in the conference room, used to accept USB sticks for presentations etc.

The projector usually has VGA, maybe DVI, sometimes HDMI, because the vast majority of office workers don't user laptops with HDMI ports on them. When places don't have certain ports on the projector, they usually just leave a multi-dongle inside the conference room.

Essentially, "we have 100 computers at our office", make sure each can connect to it just incase. There should never be a situation where you cannot connect to your own workplaces equipment, that would be your company IT failing to cater for all situations.

If it's a case that you're freelance or you visit other people, then you need to make sure you carry the equipment needed just incase. You cannot rely on people to have USB-C adapter, just as you cannot rely on them having a HDMI, they could be using VGA and then what, your computer doesn't have that port either. So you always should make sure you have a cable for these situations if these situations are likely to occur. Currently I carry a USB-C to HDMI cable with me, and back things up onto USB, so if anything I can always use the projector if needed. Absolute worst case, just email the slides or whatever to another person and run it off their machine.

Anyway solutions always exist, and that solution has never been having the exact same port on your computer as that which exists on the interfaced device. That's where USB-C can change as that's a port that can be used for all these situations, HDMI wasn't; it's a multimedia DRM cable with no cable retention designed for TVs, if anything the MBP should have had a DP connector not a HDMI. I've hooked up computers to TVs using RCA, S-VIDEO, VGA, DVI, HDMI, DP etc. and I have never in my life managed to have a computer with the exact correct port as what was on the TV, there's always been an adapter in the middle, now at least I can adapt that port to anything I want instead of being limited to using the only TB port on the computer or whatever.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And the Techs in IT world like my self, stick with computers that have all the ports as we need them to accomplish our job but, we are a minority.

Yep - I just wish we could have had one new, updated, "Pro" laptop among all the options.
USB-C isn't fully ready for everyone yet and it's frustrating right now.

I don't even need a ton, just HDMI a, USB-A and an SD along with some USB-C's.
I'd personally like MagSafe still too, but can forego that in lieu of those very useful ports.

 

[KGB7]

If the issue is with not being able to hook it up to a projector, why aren't places where people work following the basic steps that every company I've been to uses?

There is always 1 PC hooked up in the conference room, used to accept USB sticks for presentations etc.

The projector usually has VGA, maybe DVI, sometimes HDMI, because the vast majority of office workers don't user laptops with HDMI ports on them. When places don't have certain ports on the projector, they usually just leave a multi-dongle inside the conference room.

Essentially, "we have 100 computers at our office", make sure each can connect to it just incase. There should never be a situation where you cannot connect to your own workplaces equipment, that would be your company IT failing to cater for all situations.

If it's a case that you're freelance or you visit other people, then you need to make sure you carry the equipment needed just incase. You cannot rely on people to have USB-C adapter, just as you cannot rely on them having a HDMI, they could be using VGA and then what, your computer doesn't have that port either. So you always should make sure you have a cable for these situations if these situations are likely to occur. Currently I carry a USB-C to HDMI cable with me, and back things up onto USB, so if anything I can always use the projector if needed. Absolute worst case, just email the slides or whatever to another person and run it off their machine.

Anyway solutions always exist, and that solution has never been having the exact same port on your computer as that which exists on the interfaced device. That's where USB-C can change as that's a port that can be used for all these situations, HDMI wasn't; it's a multimedia DRM cable with no cable retention designed for TVs, if anything the MBP should have had a DP connector not a HDMI. I've hooked up computers to TVs using RCA, S-VIDEO, VGA, DVI, HDMI, DP etc. and I have never in my life managed to have a computer with the exact correct port as what was on the TV, there's always been an adapter in the middle, now at least I can adapt that port to anything I want instead of being limited to using the only TB port on the computer or whatever.

Exactly.

You and I get paid to make things work. In any situation, private sector or government office environment.

And consumers with personal computers, are on their own and it’s up to them to spend their own money and acquire necessary cables and dongles.

Speaking of dongles. Do you remember ps/2 adapters for mouse and keyboard? I have never heard of anyone complaining about those little green and purple adapters in my 15 year IT career.
I’ve been a member of many forums for over a decade( pc and Android) and this is the only forum (Mac, iOS ) that has the most amount of complaints about EVERYTHING.
I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about vga to dvi adapters. Printer port to usb cables. Serial port to usb.
And yet, nothing is good enough on this forum.

I used to think that people who own and use Apple products, are mature and are sophisticated. After being on this forum for few month, it seems to me that Apple users are a bunch of cry babies. Nothing is good enough.

Oy Vey!
[doublepost=1510375072][/doublepost]

Yep - I just wish we could have had one new, updated, "Pro" laptop among all the options.
USB-C isn't fully ready for everyone yet and it's frustrating right now.

I don't even need a ton, just HDMI a, USB-A and an SD along with some USB-C's.
I'd personally like MagSafe still too, but can forego that in lieu of those very useful ports.

And the people that pay our salary, provides us with all the tools we need; cables , dongles, etc...so the end user can look at cat videos or a pie charts during a monthly stock holder meeting.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Exactly.

You and I get paid to make things work. In any situation, private sector or government office environment.

And consumers with personal computers, are on their own and it’s up to them to spend their own money and acquire necessary cables and dongles.

Speaking of dongles. Do you remember ps/2 adapters for mouse and keyboard? I have never heard of anyone complaining about those little green and purple adapters in my 15 year IT career.
I’ve been a member of many forums for over a decade( pc and Android) and this is the only forum (Mac, iOS ) that has the most amount of complaints about EVERYTHING.
I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about vga to dvi adapters. Printer port to usb cables. Serial port to usb.
And yet, nothing is good enough on this forum.

I used to think that people who own and use Apple products, are mature and are sophisticated. After being on this forum for few month, it seems to me that Apple users are a bunch of cry babies. Nothing is good enough.

Oy Vey!
[doublepost=1510375072][/doublepost]

And the people that pay our salary, provides us with all the tools we need; cables , dongles, etc...so the end user can look at cat videos or a pie charts during a monthly stock holder meeting.

I think people have this overwhelming feeling that if they spend £££ (Soo many threads "I spent $4000 on a computer! Why I have spend $5 on a cable!?", when actually they spent $1500 on the SSD...) on a computer it should just work with everything regardless.

I.e. it should have VGA, HDMI, TOSLINK, DP, RCA, S-VIDEO, 3.5mm, 2.5mm, COAX, USB-A, USB-B, USB-3, USB-Micro, USB-Mini, PS/2, Ethernet, FireWire, TB, Serial, E-SATA, SD, Flash, CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, Floppy, Laserdisc, anything else I can think of to plug into a computer? Can you actually imagine a portable notebook computer having all those things? If it had HDMI as well, people would complain it doesn't have Ethernet. They'll always find something to complain about as it will never be 100% perfect for them.

It has 1 of those ports, and 4 others that can be any of those ports. You can get a computer right now with a dedicated VGA port, something from 1985 that surely will one day finally die, then what do you do, buy a whole new computer? VGA cannot become an Ethernet port if that's what you suddenly need. So USB-C is great because it can be all of those things, and anything going forward as technology changes. It's literally just the connector people are frustrated about, without thinking about the technology behind it all. You don't need an expensive digitiser to transcode the signals from analogue to digital, or anything in-between bar a simple cheap connection adapter, that's pretty great.

I wouldn't say mature and sophisticated, mostly snooty and derivative. The amount of people I've seen buy a Mac just to look down on Windows people like their some kind of 3rd class species is obscene. People absolutely love Apple and think owning a Mac is some kind of right of entry into a higher plane of existence. It's a computer, you use it to work, you work till it becomes slow, you buy another one. It's not going to last you 10 years, and if all you're doing it watching Netflix with it hooked up to a TV then you should re-consider how you spend your disposable income or understand that's not what they're designed to do...

Anyway these threads get very circular in nature, we've had dozens over the year and dozens more appear each week. USB-C is a port, it's not going anywhere, they're not going to add USB-A back at any point, they're not going to add HDMI, they're not going to go back to MagSafe either; which was great when the battery life was 2 hours and tripping hazards were a thing, not so much when you get 10 hours.

 

[Naimfan]

Anyway these threads get very circular in nature, we've had dozens over the year and dozens more appear each week. [T]hey're not going to go back to MagSafe either; which was great when the battery life was 2 hours and tripping hazards were a thing, not so much when you get 10 hours.

And yet you manage to appear in every one of them . . . hope the paycheck is worth it.

And if you're getting 10 hours out of a 15" MacBook Pro while actually, you know, USING it, you should invest in a new watch. Perhaps, even, a mechanical Rolex.

 

[KGB7]

I think people have this overwhelming feeling that if they spend £££ (Soo many threads "I spent $4000 on a computer! Why I have spend $5 on a cable!?", when actually they spent $1500 on the SSD...) on a computer it should just work with everything regardless.

I.e. it should have VGA, HDMI, TOSLINK, DP, RCA, S-VIDEO, 3.5mm, 2.5mm, COAX, USB-A, USB-B, USB-3, USB-Micro, USB-Mini, PS/2, Ethernet, FireWire, TB, Serial, E-SATA, SD, Flash, CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, Floppy, Laserdisc, anything else I can think of to plug into a computer? Can you actually imagine a portable notebook computer having all those things? If it had HDMI as well, people would complain it doesn't have Ethernet. They'll always find something to complain about as it will never be 100% perfect for them.

It has 1 of those ports, and 4 others that can be any of those ports. You can get a computer right now with a dedicated VGA port, something from 1985 that surely will one day finally die, then what do you do, buy a whole new computer? VGA cannot become an Ethernet port if that's what you suddenly need. So USB-C is great because it can be all of those things, and anything going forward as technology changes. It's literally just the connector people are frustrated about, without thinking about the technology behind it all. You don't need an expensive digitiser to transcode the signals from analogue to digital, or anything in-between bar a simple cheap connection adapter, that's pretty great.

I wouldn't say mature and sophisticated, mostly snooty and derivative. The amount of people I've seen buy a Mac just to look down on Windows people like their some kind of 3rd class species is obscene. People absolutely love Apple and think owning a Mac is some kind of right of entry into a higher plane of existence. It's a computer, you use it to work, you work till it becomes slow, you buy another one. It's not going to last you 10 years, and if all you're doing it watching Netflix with it hooked up to a TV then you should re-consider how you spend your disposable income or understand that's not what they're designed to do...

Anyway these threads get very circular in nature, we've had dozens over the year and dozens more appear each week. USB-C is a port, it's not going anywhere, they're not going to add USB-A back at any point, they're not going to add HDMI, they're not going to go back to MagSafe either; which was great when the battery life was 2 hours and tripping hazards were a thing, not so much when you get 10 hours.

You forgot IDE, SCSI, PCI, AGP, magnetic tape medium; audio cassette, track tape. Sony mini Disk, mp3 player.

We have 60 years of tech in one hand held device and that’s still not good enough.

Some people, will always be half empty glass.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

And yet you manage to appear in every one of them . . . hope the paycheck is worth it.

And if you're getting 10 hours out of a 15" MacBook Pro while actually, you know, USING it, you should invest in a new watch. Perhaps, even, a mechanical Rolex.

Yes I'm paid by Apple to state the obvious, you found me, well done Sherlock.

It does get 10 hours if watching a video in Safari with bugger all else open. It gets around 4 hours if I'm running CC stuff with lots open, pretty to be expected to be honest. Not really any situation where I need to be away from a power socket and designing stuff, I live in a city, not the Serengeti. Never had a problem with plugging it in and pulling the cable behind a desk, I have tripped over it a couple of times as has the dog, it has pulled straight out and not moved the computer each time. I don't understand how people are routing their cables, maybe 'working' on the couch with the cable dragged across the room isn't the best working environment.

 

[Glockworkorange]

With all due respect, changing to a new design will require new R&D, new supply chain, new manufacturing procedure, new labor, etc... All of those are very costly. Does Apple have enough money to pull this off? Yes they do. Is Apple willing to do such a thing is a completely different story given the typical arrogance of Apple and Tim Cook being an all-profit man. 4 years is a perfect number to the milk the **** out of a design without being too obsolete.

Yes the failure rate of the current version is high but Apple has already foreseen this by getting a really high margin in profit. The cost of keep replacing faulty unit's parts will be substantially less then replacing the whole design, manufacture and supply chain. Let's go wild and assume a 50% failure rate (although I'm sure it's no where as high as this, maybe around 30% at most or else Apple has already been deep in law suit) versus a 100% loss when the whole chain is replaced.

Of course I generalize and assume a lot of thing but hopefully you can get the idea.

Peace,

There is a high cost of bad press and distrust that cannot be discounted, although I agree with much of what you wrote.
[doublepost=1510379873][/doublepost]

Exactly correct. Change the TB2 to USB-C on the 2015 chassis. Best of both worlds.

Can’t thin the machine out to with the legacy ports.