Well, not sure where you get your info BUT. In EU pro's have pretty much dumped Apple all together. There are few iMacs left for graphic designers and some laptops, but vfx houses moved from Apple. I done 2D for 20 years than i moved heavy onto 3d where i am right now. I started with Maya on mac and had my share of colleagues from all over EU and US working on mac. Back then mac was the norm all over the place from print to video. Now they are all extinct, the last time i've seen a mac in production was last week on a project manager who has a laptop. he use it for visualizing files that i create and send emails. If you call this creative, well, Apple is still there. Every other dude, including me that i am doing all the heavy 3d are on Dell and HP. Even in Adobe for very large scenes you can make use of a Quadro card, but macs only have AMD. This guy Cook just killed Apple in creative market.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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Well, not sure where you get your info BUT. In EU pro's have pretty much dumped Apple all together. There are few iMacs left for graphic designers and some laptops, but vfx houses moved from Apple. I done 2D for 20 years than i moved heavy onto 3d where i am right now. I started with Maya on mac and had my share of colleagues from all over EU and US working on mac. Back then mac was the norm all over the place from print to video. Now they are all extinct, the last time i've seen a mac in production was last week on a project manager who has a laptop. he use it for visualizing files that i create and send emails. If you call this creative, well, Apple is still there. Every other dude, including me that i am doing all the heavy 3d are on Dell and HP. Even in Adobe for very large scenes you can make use of a Quadro card, but macs only have AMD. This guy Cook just killed Apple in creative market.
This would be a good move to keep people in the ecosystem, while not punishing the top end with outdate/expensive tech.
And for side note, that Z2 mini looks really freaken cool. I'm assuming it will use the E3s, but throw me a the top end with Iris Pro, hold the Quadro Pro, and I'd be interested.
Which gets me to another random thought, is it just me or is the Mac Mini looking really, really huge for what's actually inside it? This things gotta get axed or updated soon right?
Shatter he status quo?????? Please. Intel rolled out early Xeon E5 v1 ( Sandy Bridge) chips to selected Supercomputer vendors before they made it to the general market.
E5 v4 (Broadwell) same thing a year ago. It has happened several times. These early drops are ways of getting lots testing down on the early versions to shake out bugs. Exactly the context that Apple would extremely likely avoid in terms of shipping a widescale product. (e.g., skipping the first round of TB3 USB power assistance chips. )
".. Wuischpard said that Skylake Xeons will be generally available in mid-2017, putting a stake in the ground, and reminded everyone that “this doesn’t mean we will not be shipping quite a few in volume before then.” ..."
https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/11/15/intel-sets-skylake-xeon-hpc-knights-mill-xeon-phi-ai/
Regardless, these are the 16xx ( 1 socket) versions anyway. In the leaked Purley/Basin Intel projected roadmap from before the Basin (workstation) version was plotted out after (or TBD ) the server versions.
Doubtful they will drop much sooner than the server versions.
Apple could sit around waiting for that. They would probably do significant damage to their market floating the MP 2013 for approximately 4 years though. However, if the objective is to go into Rip Van Winkle mode for another 3-4 years then perhaps doesn't matter since general strategy is to piss it away over time anyway.
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Xeon E5 do not get EOL'ed that quickly. The problem that Apple will have is that the Mac Pro 2013 they will stall on for perhaps most of 2017 waiting for an v5 options to get to market is on track for EOL.
The v1 ( Sandy Bridge) are currently in EOL
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59138/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-Family#@All
Those launched in 2012 and the v2 launched end of 2013. They are on the same EOL clock.
Sadly this wouldn't be new since the Mac Pro 2010 (&2012) was on Xeon E5 class processor fumes in term of EOL also by the time the MP 2013 came along. So in some sense it would just be new status quo for Apple. Ride CPU to EOL and then upgrade.
v4 is no where near EOL next year. It is only a bad option for early '17 is if Apple intends to do nothing for another 3-4 years. Yeah before the end of that 3-4 years the v4 would be in EOL. If Apple waits they could ride v5 to EOL with a longer countdown clock. It is the path to doing less over time. If they went v4 they'd need to do something within 1-2 years.
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Partially delusion. The notion that there is no apple specific parts in newest Macs. Sure he acknowledges the Touch Bar but then hand waves and says the SSD are off the shelf. No. The RAM while a RAM chip supplier is a custom Apple placement ( no so-DIMM or DIMM ).
Admits that the clone thing probably won't work.
"... It’s clear that Apple’s interest in the desktop market is waning ..."
This is positioned as if it is a unilateral thing. Customers, in general, are driving away from the classic desktops. Even the HP Z2 is partially a mark of that. Same stuff folks complain about... embedded GPU. Yes. On M.2 class PCI-e slots. Yes. The major drift from Apple is willingness to let folks see the air vents. Apple is OCD on hiding them from view.
Apple doesn't particularly need to enable clones as much as spin out the Mac into a subsidiary where the flow from the iOS devices doesn't unnecessary divert resources away from the Mac. Honestly, that doesn't mean breaking about the software side or even most of the hardware side. The Mac given its own design division to do most of the Mac products, some Marketing/Ad independence, and some external investment ( partners , seed money for 3rd party projects like LG monitors , etc. ) Beats hardware is somewhat of different label. It may be time for something like that for the classical personal computer line up also. The limited, groupthink industrial design lab is problem for Apple at this point.
It is that Apple can't update the Mini or Mac Pro ... IMHO it looks like it doesn't happen because nobody is assigned to working on that the stuff. That is driven by some dogma that Jobs came up with that Apple has to stay as resource constrained as possible when it comes to design. For a company their current size that is increasingly dubious.
The laptops have some design synergies with the iOS line up, but minimally the desktops should have their own design group. That's is part of the problem. ( could perhaps through Apple TV and Airport in too. ). Stuff that stays plugged in 24/7.
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Got five paragraphs in before the ******** started. Sorry, Palmer Luckey, but Macs were *never* shipping with the most beastly GPUs. Neither has the laptop line.
Following that, we get pure stupidity with "When Steve Jobs was alive, the Mac mini was always updated!" Except, you know, that big gap August 2007 and March 2009, when everyone was certain it was doomed. And then it throws in a dig at the Mac mini's design, when I bet if you asked all these disaffected consumers, the last thing they'd say is "yeah we really wanted Apple to change the form factor." See: The Mac Pro tower. See: The pre-2012 iMacs.
The clone idea is terrible, because they'd be sacrificing the stability of the OS with every other vendor. I'd certainly rather go PC than deal with a step-above-a-hackintosh setup.
The most useful bit at that link isn't the article, it's the top comment that says its pro division needs actually communication from Apple rather than playing it like a secret, and that's certainly something it wouldn't have done under Jobs that it certainly can now.
It could get smaller, but then I ask, why? They're pretty versatile at their size, compared to the more limited NUCs and similar. My work Mac mini is surprisingly capable at render jobs and I imagine that's because it doesn't have to throttle that badly to do so. Lots of people like being able to stick multiple drives in it.
It certainly could be redesigned, since it is no longer beholden to an optical drive or even 2.5" drives as sized components. But I don't think its footprint is a major liability. If anything I'd love for them to embrace its server-lite use cases more.
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Mago, what makes you think that Vega 10 will not be good enough to fill up the full available bandwidth but Pascal is?
Currently macOS might not make good use of it, but it hopefully will in the future, and by then you will not want something that is limited by nature, will you?
Personally I don't like to compromise.
Note: Let's hope that the e17 in nMP 7,1 e17 doesn't mean End 2017Not really, it would be Late 2017 anyway, just kidding.
But e17 might hint at 2017 launch which could very well be with Skylake instead of Broadwell, although Skylake could indeed be a few months away still.
Let's hope 1S SKL-W will come sooner than Mid2017 which is when -EP is scheduled for.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xeon-cpu-fpga-ai,33036.html
That's what's relevant for nMP 7,1.
I wrote e17 (not a leak nor a prediction) just speculated 'early 2017' has nothig to do with 'insider leaks'.
Skylake-E over Broadwell-E only offers more PCIe lines and in some setups more memory bandwidth and common socket with Xeon Phi, all other features remains the same as Bdw-E.
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OS/X server is only relevant for iOS/macOS developers, a cheap 300$ NAS outclases in in features and stability plus integrated Raid.
I use a mini to as Server but I'm a developer otherwise I'll only use my NAS (synology on next year will release a disk management tool similar to time machine to handle the BTRFS file system snapshots), also if you have a powerful NAS capable to run KVM virtualization you can even virtualize osx Maverick (at least maverick, I'm not sure if latest macOS Sierra is virtualizable too).
OK, I thought it was part of the rumor/leak.
Early 2017 seems unlikely but sounds good.
My gripe with BDW is it's dated PCH. C612 is way too limited for a 2017 machine. X299/C622 (?) would be the perfect fit.
The extra lanes on the CPU along with DMI3 and a load more PCIe 3 lanes on the PCH would make this machine unbeatable. Who would complain then? a few people with go on moaning about the GPUs and lack of expansion but that soon stops being an issue, everyone will go that route, even HP is starting (I know the towers are still there).
The nMP 7,1 must be a killer machine now, otherwise people will say it's just a minor update, even if it brings lots of new stuff. It will still be labeled as a workstation with 2/3 year old tech in it.
Early 2017 seems unlikely but sounds good.
My gripe with BDW is it's dated PCH. C612 is way too limited for a 2017 machine. X299/C622 (?) would be the perfect fit.
The extra lanes on the CPU along with DMI3 and a load more PCIe 3 lanes on the PCH would make this machine unbeatable. Who would complain then? a few people with go on moaning about the GPUs and lack of expansion but that soon stops being an issue, everyone will go that route, even HP is starting (I know the towers are still there).
The nMP 7,1 must be a killer machine now, otherwise people will say it's just a minor update, even if it brings lots of new stuff. It will still be labeled as a workstation with 2/3 year old tech in it.
Really? There are $300 NAS with i7 processor, Thunderbolt, and full access to the app store? Links please.
And the idea that macOS server is only relevant to developers is ridiculous. Mago, you've been around here for a long time - that is a really myopic statement. They make a great server for small offices. I've installed hundreds of them in this capacity.
No. All signs point to Intel splitting off the socket between Skylake-W ( and Skylake-E) and Skylake-EP. The single socket will have its own socket. The Xeon Phi is targeted to t drop into > 1 socket set ups.
-EP Socket P ( 3647 )
-X /-W Socket R4 (2066 )
Xeon Phi and Omni Path naturally go together. There may be single socket Xeon Phi systems deployed as "workstations" ( or desk-side compute nodes), but that is not the primary target market.
Misguided, part of that 2 (or more) socket set up is pins for OmniPath (and some for 10GbE ). BDW-E shares a socket with the 2 socket set up so there is a change. Correct only in that this particular change is only coming above the workstation set up. The single socket won't have it.
OS X Server is more than just a file server. Actually if primarily just have a file serving problem then it isn't a particularly good choice. Time Machine is questionable ( unless get major upgrades) with new file system coming. OS X Server has much better traction serving macOS and iOS specific services. ( updates , app deployment , maybe revised Time Machine , etc. )
virtualization of macOS on non Apple hardware is not a product market direction Apple is likely to go anywhere close to.
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Prefect .....
"... that if the manner of it be not perfect, it is at least excellent. It unites in an eminent degree all the advantages, the union of which was to be wished for. ... " -- Alexander Hamilton.
A shipping product that is very good is better than something nobody can buy for a long time. Apple should have had this Xeon E5 v4 (Broadwell) system queued up many months ago. TBv3 glitches and delay GPUs probably were a hinderance.
The only more than slightly irrational reason to delay the Mac Pro to Xeon E5 v5 class set up is if Apple was going to do to the Mac Pro what they did to the MBP. Strip off all the USB Type A ports and try to put some insane amount of Type C ports on the thing. That's the tail wagging the dog scale of delusion, but sadly would be consistant with the inmates running the asylum.
Most of the folks complaining now.
New GPUs that didn't need to be throttled to run at D700 level of performance and substantially cheaper would be killer. At least in term of units sold.
There is a missing solution for the extreme top end but the system doesn't need to initially ship with everything. Especially if not going to do a major upgrade for 2-3 years. They could "speed bump" the GPUs in another 12 months or so.
dec, do you still have any doubts that the nMP 7,1 has no USB Type A ports? I don't. Pretty sure it will be all USB-C now, there's no turning back.
I'd wager that 6 are TB3 and maybe another 4 probably 3.1 Gen. 1 from the PCH.
GPUs would keep x16 each, the remaining 13 would be for 3 TB3 controllers.
There's 12 PCIe 3 lanes left in the PCH, after considering the fixed 6 USB, SATA (not used) and 2 GbE (can use 2 ports of SATA). This is for Skylake of course. 8 lanes could be used for dual SSD and the remaining 4 could be used for Intel X550 controller if GbE is gone for good. WiFi/BT would go on USB ports left (another 2).
Perfect, like I said.
There would of course still be complains with the color (maybe now additional ones will be available), not enough mem, lack of expansion, whatever.
The top end GPU would be available by the time the Skylake nMP would be ready.
All would align perfectly.
Might be dreaming of course, but it might happen also.
Skylake Xeons have been I the wild for a while so they might have landed somehow at Apple's labs
[doublepost=1479585518][/doublepost]http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xeon-skylake-cpu-storage,33054.html
I'd wager that 6 are TB3 and maybe another 4 probably 3.1 Gen. 1 from the PCH.
GPUs would keep x16 each, the remaining 13 would be for 3 TB3 controllers.
There's 12 PCIe 3 lanes left in the PCH, after considering the fixed 6 USB, SATA (not used) and 2 GbE (can use 2 ports of SATA). This is for Skylake of course. 8 lanes could be used for dual SSD and the remaining 4 could be used for Intel X550 controller if GbE is gone for good. WiFi/BT would go on USB ports left (another 2).
Perfect, like I said.
There would of course still be complains with the color (maybe now additional ones will be available), not enough mem, lack of expansion, whatever.
The top end GPU would be available by the time the Skylake nMP would be ready.
All would align perfectly.
Might be dreaming of course, but it might happen also.
Skylake Xeons have been I the wild for a while so they might have landed somehow at Apple's labs
[doublepost=1479585518][/doublepost]http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xeon-skylake-cpu-storage,33054.html
Not exactly related to MP, however retail "people" are reporting that its starting to be impossible to order Skylake CPUs, and more and more indications are that the refresh is coming, very soon.
Also there are starting rabates on Skylake Intel CPUs, and are more and more limited supplies.
Also there are starting rabates on Skylake Intel CPUs, and are more and more limited supplies.
You have 300$ Nas with BTRFS file system and much better and solid snapshot system (inherent to BTRFS, maybe available on next APFS/TimeMachine update)
The cheapest i7 Mac mini cost ~800$
You have Thunderbol or 10GbE enabled NAS with 4-12 integrated HDD bays from 800$ witn i3-i5-i7 or AMD cpu capable to run DOCKER, LXC and a plethora of REAL SERVER SERVICES as DATABASES, WEB SERVERS and a long long etc, NAS dont have a unified App Store but certainlly similar environments where you can choose almost ANY Server Technology Available. (I refer to synology/qnap top end, there is also other NAS platform around KVM/noRAID reallty awesome and Frendly to use/setup -as Synology a favorie among Apple users, QNAP use to be more feature rich but a bit more challenging, not as dumbProof as Synology-).
In a case like that, would Intel just skip the Xeon class and go to the next generation CPU?
Hah, no I meant the consumer range. i7-6700K, etc.
This means the Skylake Xeon's, also. Xeon E3's, to be precise.
The PCH is a PCIe switch - those "loads more lanes" would be more or less equivalent to putting a PCIe switch on the current chipset.
I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing. People in these parts have an unnatural insistence that every single component in a system must be able to simultaneously run at peak theoretical bandwidth.
I've laughed at the comments in the delusional group discussing Zen, and their talk about a hundred or more PCIe lanes. It may have a hundred lanes, but no way that they could all simultaneously run at full speed.
As I thought. Complete BS @ $300. That was a disingenuous claim and could seriously throw off folks looking for factual information.
There is a headphone jack on the MBP 2016 models. Evidently even the kool-aid drinkers inside of Apple know there is a point at which you can push folks too far with the dropping sockets with little to no reasonable justification for it. Apple explaining was that alot of "pros" used the headphone jack. Same exact thing is true for Type-A USB sockets on desktop systems. Even more so on Mac Pro. ( software license key dongles , legacy 'sneaker net' storage drives , scanners , cameras , etc. ). I'd bet that at least 75% of the current Mac Pro deployments have 2 or more USB devices plugged into them directly. Four Type-A sockets on the MP 2013 so even Apple thought that folks would probably be using more than one. Going back to the previous form factor... same thing ( 5 USB 2.0 ports on 2006-2012 models ). [ Power Mac G5 had 3 but even that is an indicator probably going to need more than just one. ]
Yeah Apple has Type-C USB 2.0 ports hanging off the LG UltraFine display. So the kool-aid is strong, but at some point it gets absurd. [ I suspect that 4K monitor was going to be TBv3 based but someone chopped it to hit a lower price point. It is just a bit more than silly when keyboard and mice are likely targets and don't connect. ]
Sockets that look exactly the same. No labels ( notice how the MBP 2016 models are too magnificent for socket labels ). 6 does one thing ( display video) and 4 don't. But they all look the same. I know Apple has some quirky Human Factors design calls of late but that seems to be a stretch even for them.
the MBP 13" touch bar has diminished bandwidth TBv3 on the right side ports but it is still TBv3. This is another whole level of potential user confusion when have to point out that port 1 , 2 ,3, and 4 do something that the rest don't... but all look exactly the same.
Macs with 3.1 Gen 1 performance have had Type-A sockets. If it is still Gen 1 then Type-A is both simpler and far more value proposition effective. The Type-C TBv3 ports will help drive TBv3 adoption just fine on a new Mac Pro if there is an equal (or greater ) number of them.
Dual Apple SSD of the caliber in the MBP 2016 editions would at least saturate, if not choke, the Skylake PCH. Hanging another TBv3 controller and/or 10GbE off of it would just make it worse.
Fixed in time GPUs and a 3-4 year refresh cadence is a dead product in this space over the long term. It just isn't going to be competitive. Apple doesn't have to roll back to end user replacable cards but can't hibernate for 3 years at a time either.
Skylake Xeons have been I the wild for a while so they might have landed somehow at Apple's labs
[doublepost=1479585518][/doublepost]http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xeon-skylake-cpu-storage,33054.html
Those are
1. -EP not -W ( wrong socket).
2. the -EP is going to have a different chipset. It isn't the derivate of the desktop Kaby Lake class PCH.
There have been little to no 'sightings' of the -W early engineering/evaluation processors.
They need to make whatever replacement they dream up a goddamn powerhouse. No excuses. No compromises for some new stupid form factor. Just make it a monster.
The way mbp had been going...I doubt they know what Mac Pro is.
Refresh is coming soon. For Intel CPUs. Kaby Lake will take place of Skylake...
That was the point of my post. Nothing related to MP, and Apple, unless Apple plans to use Kaby Lake in iMac's.
Too true.
"This is the all new Mac Pro... powered by an Intel Core i3, with 4GB RAM!"
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/model.php?II=260 affordable 10GbE NAS
https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/model.php?II=231 Thunderbolt 2 NAS (2x2.5" + 4x 3.5" + 2 m.2 SSD)